On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:57:47 -0600, wrote:

(Don Klipstein) wrote:

If your hiome has gas or oil heat, chances are it will cost less to use
that than electric heating.

Not sure I agree with that. Maybe

What abt the zone heating that one does with electric
lights as heat source?

usually you will need light in the room you are
in....so by using an incandescent bulb as both light
and heat you zone heat this way

Be sure to close the door to the room, so the light won't escape.

In article Wov8h.3279$_x3.1085@trndny02, Marilyn & Bob wrote:

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
...
In article , Bob F wrote:

"Don Klipstein" wrote in message
I once tested one of those "stick on buttons" claimed to double the
life
of an incandescent, for voltage drop. It dimmed a 100 watt incandescent
enough to increase its life a good 50%.

Unfortunately, dimming incandescents results in even more
power consumed per unit of light produced.

Yes, well enough known! Power consumption varies with applied RMS
voltage to the 1.5 to 1.57 power or so, while light output varies with
applied RMS voltage to roughly the 3.4 power (more with more severe
dimming). That means light output goes down slightly worse than square of
power input, or energy efficiency varying slightly more than
proportionately with square root of light output (roughly light output to
the .55 power, more for severe dimming).
As in to dim to 50% of light output, power input is maybe about 73% of
"full".

Since most of the cost of operating incandescents is normally
electricity cost, I would put some work into increasing the energy
efficiency. As in making some bulbs turn off when you want less light.

When dimming is done with a resistor (as opposed to a variable
transformer or the usual waveform-chopping "phase control" circuit that
usually has a triac), the energy efficiency story gets worse. To count
power consumed by the infected lamp and the resistor, power consumption is
typically proportional to the lamp's RMS voltage to the .5-.57 power.
This means power conmsumption goes down about 1/6 as much as light output
does (when the percentages are small).
The "stick-on button" that dimmed a 100 watt incandescent lamp enough to
increase its life 50% also reduced the light output by about 11% while
power
consumption by the lamp and the "button" was about 98.2 watts (decreased
about 1.8%). Better to just use a longer life incandescent. Depending on
application, often (probably usually) better still to use a compact
fluorescent!

- Don Klipstein )

But don't longer life incandescents do the exact same thing as your
"button", giving you less lumens per watt?

The "button" is worse in terms of energy efficiency. The "button" has
its own resistive losses in addition to reduction of energy efficiency of
the lamp that it is applied to.

- Don Klipstein )

Couple of years ago a paper reported that an regular light bulb has
been lit in the loft of the NY Opera House for forty years as nobody
knows where the switch is to turn it off.

On 20 Nov 2006 06:17:40 -0800, "RicodJour"
wrote:

---MIKE--- wrote:
These bulbs are supposed to last much longer than incandescent types. I
have had several of them give up the ghost way too soon (the last was a
Philips brand). Has anyone else had this problem?

Yep. I ran across an article on fluorescent bulb lifespan a while
back. As with incandescent bulbs, turning them on and off is what
shortens the life. If the fluorescent is on 24/7 you'll get the rated
hours. If it's on say a third of that time, you'll get about half of
the rated hours (please note all of my numbers are either right or
wrong or somewhere in between, but the gist of it is correct). The
article calculated that if you were going to be back in the room in a
half hour it made more sense to just leave the light on. This is one
of the stumbling blocks to those automated motion-sensor lights.

The compact fluorescents have healthy warranties - years, so just give
the manufacturer a call.

R

In article ,
wrote:
Couple of years ago a paper reported that an regular light bulb has
been lit in the loft of the NY Opera House for forty years as nobody
knows where the switch is to turn it off.

I have heard of lightbulbs lasting a century. Actually easy to do - run
a 230V European incandescent bulb at 120V. Problem is, such longlife
bulbs produce much less light for a given amout of electricity
consumption than "standard" incandescents.

- Don Klipstein )

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:13:59 GMT, "Pete C."
wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 10:28:38 -0800, "Bob F"
wrote:


"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message

Interesting. Having more energy-efficient light bulbs doesn't help you
when you need heat.

Unless your source of heat is less expensive than electric heat.
If that's the case, it still pays to use efficient bulbs.

Bob


Yes, I was supposing the people know of the inefficiencies associated
with electric heat.

Don't confuse economy with efficiency, they are two different things.
Electric heat is very efficient,

The process is inefficient. Don't forget that electricity has to be
made.

but it's usually not economical based
of the current cost of electricity vs. gas or oil.

Pete C.
--
34 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

Mark Lloyd wrote:

The process is inefficient. Don't forget that electricity has to be
made.

May be but its actually cheaper to heat with
electricity where I am right now than use natural gas

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:46:02 -0600, wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

The process is inefficient. Don't forget that electricity has to be
made.

May be but its actually cheaper to heat with
electricity where I am right now than use natural gas

Hydroelectric? I seem to remember hearing about that being cheaper
where available.
--
33 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"I have found Christian dogma unintelligable. Early
in life I absented myself from Christian assemblies."
-- Benjamin Franklin

"Mark Lloyd" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 20:46:02 -0600, wrote:

Mark Lloyd wrote:

The process is inefficient. Don't forget that electricity has to be
made.

May be but its actually cheaper to heat with
electricity where I am right now than use natural gas

Hydroelectric? I seem to remember hearing about that being cheaper
where available.

I used to be. I remmber when I first moved to Seattle, a landlord
saying "And the heat is all electric - so it's cheap". Those days
are long behind us. The concept was totally alien to me that day.

Bob

mm wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:57:47 -0600, wrote:


(Don Klipstein) wrote:


If your hiome has gas or oil heat, chances are it will cost less to use
that than electric heating.

Not sure I agree with that. Maybe

What abt the zone heating that one does with electric
lights as heat source?

usually you will need light in the room you are
in....so by using an incandescent bulb as both light
and heat you zone heat this way


Be sure to close the door to the room, so the light won't escape.

And pull down all the window shades too. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

Don Klipstein wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Couple of years ago a paper reported that an regular light bulb has
been lit in the loft of the NY Opera House for forty years as nobody
knows where the switch is to turn it off.


I have heard of lightbulbs lasting a century. Actually easy to do - run
a 230V European incandescent bulb at 120V. Problem is, such longlife
bulbs produce much less light for a given amout of electricity
consumption than "standard" incandescents.

- Don Klipstein )


Try this:

http://www.centennialbulb.org/

Happy Thanksgiving,

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
The speed of light is 1.98*10^14 fathoms per fortnight.

On Tue, 21 Nov 2006 00:19:04 -0500, mm
wrote:

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 17:57:47 -0600, wrote:

(Don Klipstein) wrote:

If your hiome has gas or oil heat, chances are it will cost less to use
that than electric heating.

Not sure I agree with that. Maybe

What abt the zone heating that one does with electric
lights as heat source?

usually you will need light in the room you are
in....so by using an incandescent bulb as both light
and heat you zone heat this way

Be sure to close the door to the room, so the light won't escape.

Light doesn't exist. what you think is light is an illusion caused by
not having enough darkness.

You still need to close the door. Leaving it open could allow too much
darkness to enter.

On Mon, 20 Nov 2006 08:38:11 -0500,
(---MIKE---) wrote:

These bulbs are supposed to last much longer than incandescent types. I
have had several of them give up the ghost way too soon (the last was a
Philips brand). Has anyone else had this problem?


---MIKE---
In the White Mountains of New Hampshire
(44° 15' N - Elevation 1580')


A long time ago I did, but I contacted the Manufacturer, they wanted
them back, and for my time, I got replacements and a box (postage
paid) to return the old ones.

This was years ago, and I think it was GE.

later,

tom @ www.MeetANewFriend.com

"Andy" wrote:


I use them in the summer time when I have to have air conditioning.

In the winter time, I replace them with 100W incandescents.....

After some thought I've decide not to try above
strategy..... changing lights form CF to incandescent
as season changes.

After some thought.... Iv decide there will be
instances where I need some heat early in the
morning.... but may not need heat at all by the
afternoon such as in early spring or fall.

So a separate electric heater would be a better idea
than trying to use my incandescent light bulbs as
"heaters".

Agree?