So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded outlets
I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this arrangement,
how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace the breaker in
order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting the ground to the
bus where the neutrals run?

Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds connect
to the same buss


"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded
outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker
box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace
the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting
the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?

Eigenvector wrote:
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded outlets
I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this arrangement,
how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace the breaker in
order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting the ground to the
bus where the neutrals run?

Eigenvector wrote:
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.
snip

Your service entrance will likely require a new everything from
weatherhead to meter box to service panel. The new breaker box will
probably have separate neutral and grounding buses which can be bonded
to each other depending on your local code. Keeping the neutrals and
grounds separate makes for a tidy installation and experts here can
likely discourse on the technical advantages. HTH

Joe

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:00:48 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I don't get it. To what extent have to you had grounding installed,
if it isn't connected to anything.

And if, as the paragraph below shows, you still have to install romex
and outlets?

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded outlets
I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this arrangement,
how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace the breaker in
order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting the ground to the
bus where the neutrals run?

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds
connect to the same buss


Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I guess
I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the ground bus are
wholly separate.

I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to have
the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.



"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded
outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker
box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to
replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of
connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?

Eigenvector wrote:
"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds
connect to the same buss


Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I
guess I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the
ground bus are wholly separate.

I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to
have the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.

The are connected at the main panel. From there on the neutral is a
current carrying line and the ground is just a ground, but at the panel they
become one with the earth. :-)




"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking
at my electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable
enough, but before I start asking electricians to install new romex
and grounded outlets I would like to know if its even possible with
my current breaker box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to
replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of
connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?



--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:58:03 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds
connect to the same buss


Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I guess
I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the ground bus are
wholly separate.

I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to have
the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.


Too tired to fully explain why your 'ground' goeson the neutral, but
will try to get you square on your terminology, might help you figure
it out.

The 'ground' in a romex is called an 'equipment grounding conductor'
it provides a low impedance (resistance) path to the power source to
force breakers to open in situations where a 'hot' comes incontact
with a 'grounded case'.

The 'ground' from the ground - the rod, water pipe, plate, is called
the grounding electrode. It's purpose isn't to protect personel from
shocks, like the third prong on a plug, but to stablized voltage, so
the neutral remains an effective zero volts, on you panel reguardless
of voltage transients.

This should be enough to make you rethink what you said.

The bonding wire, from the grounding electrode and the main panel of
the services goes on the neutral bar.

Remember, this was spewed out fast, get into the codes they have
definitions that might help better than this, and always follow codes.

imho,

tom






"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded
outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker
box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to
replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of
connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?

On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 19:00:48 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough, but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded outlets
I would like to know if its even possible with my current breaker box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this arrangement,
how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to replace the breaker in
order to accomplish this or is it a matter of connecting the ground to the
bus where the neutrals run?



Is that a main service panel, look at what is being passed as a
neutral in the service enterance conductors.

later,

tom

"Tom The Great" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:58:03 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds
connect to the same buss


Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I
guess
I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the ground bus are
wholly separate.

I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to have
the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.


Too tired to fully explain why your 'ground' goeson the neutral, but
will try to get you square on your terminology, might help you figure
it out.

The 'ground' in a romex is called an 'equipment grounding conductor'
it provides a low impedance (resistance) path to the power source to
force breakers to open in situations where a 'hot' comes incontact
with a 'grounded case'.

The 'ground' from the ground - the rod, water pipe, plate, is called
the grounding electrode. It's purpose isn't to protect personel from
shocks, like the third prong on a plug, but to stablized voltage, so
the neutral remains an effective zero volts, on you panel reguardless
of voltage transients.

This should be enough to make you rethink what you said.

The bonding wire, from the grounding electrode and the main panel of
the services goes on the neutral bar.

Remember, this was spewed out fast, get into the codes they have
definitions that might help better than this, and always follow codes.

imho,

tom

Oh I very much appreciate the clarification. I myself won't work on the
panel, and wouldn't install circuits or replace wires without experienced
supervision. But I prefer to be educated on it so that I know at least
something of it.

The next work that will be done will be to change out the actual panel. All
I did this time was have someone replace the breakers (4 of which had rust
on them, the others were showing signs of heat and all of them operated more
like a volume control slider than a circuit breaker) and install a per-code
ground system, sufficient for a 200 A service.

There actually was a ground wire in the panel, but it didn't seem to go
anywhere that we could find so it was clipped to prevent ground loops

If you don't mind explaining some more. Where does that ground plug lead to
on a 3 prong outlet? So the black goes to the breaker, the white to the
neutral bus (electrical ground for the circuit correct?) and then the ground
wire (3rd prong) goes to the neutral bus as well to provide an alternate
path in case of failure.

Lastly, the electrician indicated that my outlets were wired backwards,
meaning the black wire was on the terminal where the white wire should be.
Since I only have 2 prong outlets I presume that doesn't really matter, but
was what he was saying correct?

He mentioned this because he was concerned about the inspector and what he
would say when the panel was replaced.






"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough,
but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded
outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current
breaker
box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to
replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of
connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:51:17 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:

[snip]


Lastly, the electrician indicated that my outlets were wired backwards,
meaning the black wire was on the terminal where the white wire should be.
Since I only have 2 prong outlets I presume that doesn't really matter, but
was what he was saying correct?


It does matter with lamps/appliances that have exposed metal parts.
The thing is supposed to be connected so that if there's a short to
that part, it should be the neutral rather than the hot wire that
shorts to it. That's why they use polarized receptacles now (neutral
hole is bigger).

[snip]
--
86 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"The government of the United States is not, in
any sense, founded on the Christian religion."
-- George Washington

On Sat, 30 Sep 2006 13:51:17 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"Tom The Great" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 29 Sep 2006 20:58:03 -0700, "Eigenvector"
wrote:


"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote in message
...
Assuming that's a main panel and not a sub, the neutrals and grounds
connect to the same buss


Would I be losing the advantages of grounded service by doing that. I
guess
I was under the impression that the neutral bus and the ground bus are
wholly separate.

I guess I'm wondering if I need to change the panel now if I want to have
the full advantage of 3 prong outlets and grounded service.


Too tired to fully explain why your 'ground' goeson the neutral, but
will try to get you square on your terminology, might help you figure
it out.

The 'ground' in a romex is called an 'equipment grounding conductor'
it provides a low impedance (resistance) path to the power source to
force breakers to open in situations where a 'hot' comes incontact
with a 'grounded case'.

The 'ground' from the ground - the rod, water pipe, plate, is called
the grounding electrode. It's purpose isn't to protect personel from
shocks, like the third prong on a plug, but to stablized voltage, so
the neutral remains an effective zero volts, on you panel reguardless
of voltage transients.

This should be enough to make you rethink what you said.

The bonding wire, from the grounding electrode and the main panel of
the services goes on the neutral bar.

Remember, this was spewed out fast, get into the codes they have
definitions that might help better than this, and always follow codes.

imho,

tom

Oh I very much appreciate the clarification. I myself won't work on the
panel, and wouldn't install circuits or replace wires without experienced
supervision. But I prefer to be educated on it so that I know at least
something of it.

The next work that will be done will be to change out the actual panel. All
I did this time was have someone replace the breakers (4 of which had rust
on them, the others were showing signs of heat and all of them operated more
like a volume control slider than a circuit breaker) and install a per-code
ground system, sufficient for a 200 A service.

There actually was a ground wire in the panel, but it didn't seem to go
anywhere that we could find so it was clipped to prevent ground loops

If you don't mind explaining some more. Where does that ground plug lead to
on a 3 prong outlet? So the black goes to the breaker, the white to the
neutral bus (electrical ground for the circuit correct?) and then the ground
wire (3rd prong) goes to the neutral bus as well to provide an alternate
path in case of failure.

Depends. On the GE panel I put in, per manufactures instructions, a
seperate ground bar was necessary to complete the installation. So
the "hot" ungrounded conductor went to the breaker, the 'neutral'
grounded conductor went to a neutral bar, and the equipment grounding
conductor went to a ground bar. However, some panels like Square-D,
allows for grounds and neutrals on the same neutral bar.

BTW, I'm a fan of installing a seperate ground bar. Neater
installation, and only a few bucks more.

Back to your question, the path "HASTO" go back to the power source.
This low resistance path back to the power source causes breakers to
trip. The equipment ground isn't another path of return, just a
dedicated path for fault current.



Lastly, the electrician indicated that my outlets were wired backwards,
meaning the black wire was on the terminal where the white wire should be.
Since I only have 2 prong outlets I presume that doesn't really matter, but
was what he was saying correct?

Not there to say if he was correct in what he saw, but if he was you
do have a potential problem. Many plugs are 'polorized' to only allow
one pronge to be on the "hot side". Here is a good reason for this,
visualize a lamp socket for a lamp. It's typically metal, and the
outer metal part was sometimes a conductor of electricity. So if the
'hot' conductor was wired suck that the metal socket was energized,
rather than the center spot deep inside the socket, I person could
hold on a lamp's metal parts and touch a heating radaitor and recieve
a shock. So, if you wires are backwards, it is a concern.



He mentioned this because he was concerned about the inspector and what he
would say when the panel was replaced.

Call your inspector. Tell him you're having work done on the panel,
and what does he like seeing. You are only helping him do his job
better. Many times stuff previously installed was under codes
enforced at the time, so they were once ok, and not reinspected

Side note, I was replacing a circuit to a detached garage. That was
it, the inspector (called for checking a trench dept) took a peek at
the service panel and freaked. He took me infront of the home owner
and explained what 'extra work' needed to be done, before he returned.
It was work above and beyond the original job scope, and cost had to
be factored in. So if something is wrong, he will want you to fix it.


Now everything I wrote is based on experienced, and I offer no truth
in facts. I am not your electrician, nor able to see the
installation, or an expect on all codes effecting your home. This
isn't a how-to.

later,

tom @ www.NoCostAds.com










"Eigenvector" wrote in message
. ..
So now that I've had grounding installed in my house, I'm looking at my
electrical box and I don't see where the ground wire would go.

I won't be doing my own work of course, I'm not knowledgeable enough,
but
before I start asking electricians to install new romex and grounded
outlets I would like to know if its even possible with my current
breaker
box.

http://photos.imageevent.com/eigenve...e/P9290048.JPG

That's my box, a GE panel, room for 2 more circuits, given this
arrangement, how would a grounded circuit be run? Would I have to
replace the breaker in order to accomplish this or is it a matter of
connecting the ground to the bus where the neutrals run?