I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

One thing to try first, (I can't answer your question directly as I don't
know) -- Some of my plumbing pipes have enough room around them to trop a
line down the outside of them, between the pipe and the floors they
penetrate. We used a chain tied to the end of fishin line as a weight to
drop straight down through the holes. It took a few shots, but we got it.

if you have a pipe in straight line from bottom to top of the building,then
you don't have to drill anything...

your pipe is round,and much of the time the guys make a square hole to let
pass from floor to floor,with a bit of patient and a good fish (1/4 inch)
you can pass from top to bottom then pull the wire up,wait till its a bit
less hot in the attic to try it..


a écrit dans le message de news:
...
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

DONT run any cables inside sewer lines, the wiring entry exit spots can
leak and explosive gasses get in your home. from say a natural gas leak
on the street or if a idiot dumps gasoline down a sewer.........

run wires along side sewer or other lines, in a closet, behind kitchen
cabinets, up a fake downspout outside home, had a friend who ran
conduit right along a downspout, it was invisible.

you heard a bad idea.

wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

On Fri, 08 Sep 2006 04:53:21 -0700, tljones wrote:

I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

One time I had a sewer line clog which required running a Roto-Rooter
down the vent pipe on the roof to clear. The plumber told me it was
not that unusual to have to resort to this entry point.

Tony, you said the vent is used for your sump pump. Are you certain that's
its only use? Here in Colorado sump pumps are required to discharge to
daylight and may not be connected to the sewer. Is yours connected to the
sewer, or does it discharge to daylight?

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

If a 1/4" hole filled with wire and silicone in a vent pipe is going to
allow explosive gasses into your home or gasoline fumes from the guy down
the block who is always putting a gallon or two of gas down his sewer...the
problem won't be at the little hole.

Now if you are always worried about the natural gas leak on the street
causing gas to go in the roof vent, down into the house and into the little
hole filled with silicone.... I would never open my windows... LOL


wrote in message
oups.com...
DONT run any cables inside sewer lines, the wiring entry exit spots can
leak and explosive gasses get in your home. from say a natural gas leak
on the street or if a idiot dumps gasoline down a sewer.........

run wires along side sewer or other lines, in a closet, behind kitchen
cabinets, up a fake downspout outside home, had a friend who ran
conduit right along a downspout, it was invisible.

I think it comes from his sump pit. In some area it is only used as a vent
for radon not for actual water discharge. The water line will go out of the
side of the house.


"Jon Woellhaf" wrote in message
. ..
Tony, you said the vent is used for your sump pump. Are you certain that's
its only use? Here in Colorado sump pumps are required to discharge to
daylight and may not be connected to the sewer. Is yours connected to the
sewer, or does it discharge to daylight?

wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

gary wrote:
If a 1/4" hole filled with wire and silicone in a vent pipe is going to
allow explosive gasses into your home or gasoline fumes from the guy down
the block who is always putting a gallon or two of gas down his sewer...the
problem won't be at the little hole.

They don't worry about guy down the street with gasoline. The methane
and other toxic gases formed naturally are plenty enough to cause
problems. Poof.

gary wrote:
If a 1/4" hole filled with wire and silicone in a vent pipe is going to
allow explosive gasses into your home or gasoline fumes from the guy down
the block who is always putting a gallon or two of gas down his sewer...the
problem won't be at the little hole.

Now if you are always worried about the natural gas leak on the street
causing gas to go in the roof vent, down into the house and into the little
hole filled with silicone.... I would never open my windows... LOL



People go to lots of work to avoid doing it right and can cause
troubles at home resale time

Do it right do it once then sit back and relax!

Sewer gas accidently entering your home can lead to all sorts of
troubles including illness and hazardous gasses that can cause
explosions.

those pesky rules were largely written after bad problems occured

wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

Why not go wireless?

On 13 Sep 2006 12:57:28 -0700, wrote:


wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

Why not go wireless?

Wireless hardware is more complex, and so less reliable. It is harder
to set up computers and other devices. Range is limited (and reception
can be intermittent and subject to interference), but still is likely
to provide physical access when it's not wanted (security
vulnerabilities) so requires directional setup (WPA and such), which
increases setup time and decreases available bandwidth.
--
103 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

Mark Lloyd wrote:
On 13 Sep 2006 12:57:28 -0700, wrote:


wrote:

I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

Why not go wireless?


Wireless hardware is more complex, and so less reliable. It is harder
to set up computers and other devices. Range is limited (and reception
can be intermittent and subject to interference), but still is likely
to provide physical access when it's not wanted (security
vulnerabilities) so requires directional setup (WPA and such), which
increases setup time and decreases available bandwidth.



Just piggybacking on the last posted message:
The OP hasn't responded to any of these messages, so he apparently
doesn't care.
My suggestion for anyone who does care, is that vinyl siding is a great
conduit for cable of any kind. I have run cat5 through vinyl siding.
Just drill two holes in the sheetrock and sheathing, one at the source
of the cable and the other at the destination, run the cable under the
siding after unzipping the siding panel, down or up at the corner
channels if necessary, and into the destination room. Use boxes with
connectors for the source and destination holes for a neater connection.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY
To Email, remove the double zeroes after 'at'

I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues...

That is not correct, friend. Plenum cable is allowed to be used in
plenum air spaces. These are usually found in the area above a drop
ceiling in office complexes. That's about the only place where plenum
cable is allowed other than as normal in-wall wiring. It can't be run
in air ducts or plumbing pipes, including your vent stack.

The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement and is the only
direct path I can see...

As others have already mentioned, there may be enough space between the
pipe and the cut-out area where it passes through the floor. If the
home is older the cut-out is usually square, leaving lots of space to
fish a cable. Newer construction is often tighter since the plumbers
use hole saws to cut s snugger opening and it may even be fire-caulked.

Other places where you may find an open chase include the various "wet
walls" which have pipes for toilets, siomks and bathrooms. Sometimes a
home will have one closet located above another. If you're lucky
enough to have that layout you can easily open the wall inside an
upstairs closet, drill down into the one below and so forth to reach
the basement. A small reach hole inside the closet wall can be covered
with a single-gang plate, providing easy access should you ever need to
make changes. Accessing the top of the wall from an unfinished attic
is a snap.

At times when installing in multi-story homes I've deliberately
selected a place low on a hallway wall, directly outside the master
bedroom for a flush mounted siren speaker. Installing a keypad in the
bedroom side of the wall, several feet above the speaker makes it easy
to fish from the attic down. Another speaker goes in the wall on the
first floor, just above the baseboard. This arrangement makes it easy
to reach into the wall with a drill and open a 3/4" hole from attic to
basement. Note that this works best if the wall is load-bearing since
the wall on the upper floor will be directly above the one below.

There are numerous ways to run new cable in existing homes. Sometimes
you just need to get a little creative in your planning but with a
little patience and a modicum of tool skills it's not difficult.

Regards,
Robert L Bass
Bass Home Electronics
DIY Alarm and Home Automation Store
www.BassBurglarAlarms.com

My suggestion for anyone who does care, is that vinyl siding is a great
conduit for cable of any kind. I have run cat5 through vinyl siding.
Just drill two holes in the sheetrock and sheathing, one at the source
of the cable and the other at the destination, run the cable under the
siding after unzipping the siding panel, down or up at the corner
channels if necessary, and into the destination room. Use boxes with
connectors for the source and destination holes for a neater connection.

What does code say about this? You're talking about running wires
essentially externally. That and I'd worry about the long term issues with
something else going through the siding at a later date. Why introduce a
headache for the next homeowner when they discover someone put wires
improperly underneath the siding? That and fire code issues with the jacket
material catching fire and acting as a fuse taking the fire to other areas
it might not otherwise.

No, don't half-ass it with something like this. It's your HOME, the largest
investment you're likely to make in your life. Don't short-change it by
doing something like this.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 08:05:58 -0400, "Bill Kearney"
wrote:

My suggestion for anyone who does care, is that vinyl siding is a great
conduit for cable of any kind. I have run cat5 through vinyl siding.
Just drill two holes in the sheetrock and sheathing, one at the source
of the cable and the other at the destination, run the cable under the
siding after unzipping the siding panel, down or up at the corner
channels if necessary, and into the destination room. Use boxes with
connectors for the source and destination holes for a neater connection.

What does code say about this? You're talking about running wires
essentially externally. That and I'd worry about the long term issues with
something else going through the siding at a later date. Why introduce a
headache for the next homeowner when they discover someone put wires
improperly underneath the siding? That and fire code issues with the jacket
material catching fire and acting as a fuse taking the fire to other areas
it might not otherwise.


You're allowed to run coax and cat-5 right up the side of the
house OUTSIDE the siding if you want to, it's just ugly as hell.
The only thing I'd add is, seal the penetrations with
caulk or foam to limit wind and insect penetration.

wrote:
I'm trying to figure out the best path, other than drilling and the
time consuming process of fishing/drilling through floors, to get a RG6
cable and Cat5e cable from my attic to my basement.

I have heard that you can run plenium Cat5 down environmental vents
without any issues. The sewer vent runs from the attic to the basement
and is the only direct path I can see. The pipe is 2" and is used for
my sump pump in the basement. I was going to cut the pipe and use a 45
degree capped splitter for the wires in the basement to avoid drilling
ugly holes directly in the pipe.

Is this NOT a good idea? Any restrictions on if I can do this with RG6
or Cat5E?

I'm in Georgia, if that helps any in regards to code.

Thanks!

Tony

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

In article , says...
"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

Neither one is a big deal for 99.44% of home systems, though I see
a lot of open networks around. I have mine configured for
encryption, only listen to my laptops' MACs, and doesn't broadcast
its SSID. 54Mbps is faster than my cable modem. Good 'nuff.

--
Keith

Keith Williams writes:

In article , says...
"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

Neither one is a big deal for 99.44% of home systems, though I see
a lot of open networks around. I have mine configured for
encryption, only listen to my laptops' MACs, and doesn't broadcast
its SSID.

And if you're using WEP, someone can break all that in minutes. MAC's
can be sniffed and cloned simply with passive sniffers, SSID is
included in every packet sent across the air even if the access point
doesn't beacon. If you're using WPA-PSK and aren't using a very
complex passphrase, that too can be cracked using freely available
dictionary attack tools. At least you're not among the open network
drones though--kuds on that.

54Mbps is faster than my cable modem. Good 'nuff.

For you and your websurfing use. FWIW, I'm willing to be you're not
getting anywhere near 54Mbps from upstairs to downstairs.

Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how
trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive
data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more
compelling.

Wireless: just because you can doesn't mean you should.

In short, I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to run cat5 cable.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Todd H. wrote:
Keith Williams writes:

In article , says...
"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

Neither one is a big deal for 99.44% of home systems, though I see
a lot of open networks around. I have mine configured for
encryption, only listen to my laptops' MACs, and doesn't broadcast
its SSID.

And if you're using WEP, someone can break all that in minutes. MAC's
can be sniffed and cloned simply with passive sniffers, SSID is
included in every packet sent across the air even if the access point
doesn't beacon. If you're using WPA-PSK and aren't using a very
complex passphrase, that too can be cracked using freely available
dictionary attack tools. At least you're not among the open network
drones though--kuds on that.

54Mbps is faster than my cable modem. Good 'nuff.

For you and your websurfing use. FWIW, I'm willing to be you're not
getting anywhere near 54Mbps from upstairs to downstairs.

Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how
trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive
data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more
compelling.

Wireless: just because you can doesn't mean you should.

In short, I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to run cat5 cable.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

I agree, copper is not dead. There's a time and a place for it. But
there is also a time and a place for wireless. I run wire to 2
computers and wireless to a third (and the kid's PSP).

If the OP is working from home and has sensitive data, wire's probably
a good idea. Also if he's downloading movies and playing games. But
if it's just "check your email" or sending things to a printer,
wireless is probably okay.

To some extent is also depends of where he lives. I live in a small,
rural community and a neighbor just put in a wireless network. Until
then, there was never another wireless network in the area and little
chance anyone would be trying to crack mine (but I still use security).
If the OP is in the middle of a city near a university, it's a whole
other story.

I was just curious about it and thought I would suggest another option
that might work or it might not.

On 15 Sep 2006 10:01:50 -0500, (Todd H.) wrote:

"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

Yes, and don't forget simplicity and reliability.
--
101 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

Bill Kearney wrote:
My suggestion for anyone who does care, is that vinyl siding is a great
conduit for cable of any kind. I have run cat5 through vinyl siding.
Just drill two holes in the sheetrock and sheathing, one at the source
of the cable and the other at the destination, run the cable under the
siding after unzipping the siding panel, down or up at the corner
channels if necessary, and into the destination room. Use boxes with
connectors for the source and destination holes for a neater connection.


What does code say about this? You're talking about running wires
essentially externally. That and I'd worry about the long term issues with
something else going through the siding at a later date. Why introduce a
headache for the next homeowner when they discover someone put wires
improperly underneath the siding? That and fire code issues with the jacket
material catching fire and acting as a fuse taking the fire to other areas
it might not otherwise.

No, don't half-ass it with something like this. It's your HOME, the largest
investment you're likely to make in your life. Don't short-change it by
doing something like this.



While I agree with Mr. Kearney that it's better to "do it right" in the
first place, I seriously doubt a length of wire would pose any more
hazard in a fire if it was located on the outside of the siding or
underneath it. I've never heard of a cable acting as a "fuse". There
are far more combustible materials used in home construction and I doubt
the "fuse factor" would be pose any real issue. I mean, by the time it
gets hot enough to ignite FT-4 or FT-6 rated jacket, the vinyl siding
would be ablaze as well.

In article , says...
Keith Williams writes:

In article , says...
"Pat" writes:

Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

Data rate and security are two reasons copper isn't dead.

Neither one is a big deal for 99.44% of home systems, though I see
a lot of open networks around. I have mine configured for
encryption, only listen to my laptops' MACs, and doesn't broadcast
its SSID.

And if you're using WEP, someone can break all that in minutes. MAC's
can be sniffed and cloned simply with passive sniffers, SSID is
included in every packet sent across the air even if the access point
doesn't beacon. If you're using WPA-PSK and aren't using a very
complex passphrase, that too can be cracked using freely available
dictionary attack tools. At least you're not among the open network
drones though--kuds on that.

The cable can be sniffed at the street too.

54Mbps is faster than my cable modem. Good 'nuff.

For you and your websurfing use. FWIW, I'm willing to be you're not
getting anywhere near 54Mbps from upstairs to downstairs.

It does. The router is pretty much right over the family room
though.

Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how
trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive
data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more
compelling.

Security overkill for 99.44%. We use wireless at work too, where
they are a tad more sensitive.

Wireless: just because you can doesn't mean you should.

Just because they can, doesn't mean they will.

In short, I wouldn't begrudge anyone wanting to run cat5 cable.

Begrudge those wanting cat-5, no. Begrudge the Chicken-Littleites,
yes.

--
Keith

Keith Williams writes:

Just because they can, doesn't mean they will.

That's security through hope. :-) But to each their own.

--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Pat wrote:
Just out of curiosity, is there a reason you can't use a "pre-N" or "N"
wireless network? They are getting faster and stronger all the time.

I just put a "G" repeater in my mother's garage because the signal she
gets from my brother's house was a little weak. Works really well.

I think beyond all other reasons given here, there's a pretty low
success rate getting a wireless signal to work very well on multi level
houses. the antennae are meant moreso to be at fairly the same height
with each other.

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:49:57 -0400, Keith Williams wrote:
In article , says...
Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how

That's the issue I have, and why I'm planning for more copper. I can
stream mp3 over 802.11b with no problem. Video was iffy, so I switched
to 801.11g. No video is pretty decent, but I find myself wanting to
copy 1gb to 8gb files between systems. Time for copper.

Before purchasing this place I had plans to build and wire oodles of
cat-5 everywhere. In spite of the advances in wireless, for anyone
building or extensive remodeling I _strongly_ recommend copper in the
walls. Wireless is great for its niche, OK most times, but copper is
great most times so put it in if you can! It is trivial to add wireless
if you want to try it or need it for its niche. Copper if you can.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:28:46 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote in message :

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


Mark,

Could you please take down this link before someone emulates your
installation and gets electrocuted?

http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/6201_in_dryer.html

If someone connects a 220VAC 4-wire dryer with only three wires, leaving the
chassis ungrounded, the chassis would become hot if one of the conductors you
show running unprotected through the sharp metal edge of the case were to
contact the dryer. With time and vibration owing to dryer movement, this
would be a very likely scenario.

With one hand on the hot chassis, another on a sink or grounded washing
machine, the current would cross their chest and could stop their heart. You
might cause someone to die. Please consider that and do the responsible
thing.

.... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

Todd H. ) said...

Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how
trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive
data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more
compelling.

With IP-TV services (especially for HD programming) being the next big
thing, this will become a very compelling reason for copper to continue
even further into the future.

--
Calvin Henry-Cotnam
"I really think Canada should get over to Iraq as quickly as possible"
- Paul Martin - April 30, 2003
-------------------------------------------------------------------------
NOTE: if replying by email, remove "remove." and ".invalid"


--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

In article ,
says...
On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 12:49:57 -0400, Keith Williams wrote:
In article , says...
Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how

That's the issue I have, and why I'm planning for more copper. I can
stream mp3 over 802.11b with no problem. Video was iffy, so I switched
to 801.11g. No video is pretty decent, but I find myself wanting to
copy 1gb to 8gb files between systems. Time for copper.

Are you going GbE? I don't see the huge gain from 54Mb to 100Mb.
My laptop and desktop have GbE, so all I need is a switch. ...but I
don't see a real need.

Before purchasing this place I had plans to build and wire oodles of
cat-5 everywhere. In spite of the advances in wireless, for anyone
building or extensive remodeling I _strongly_ recommend copper in the
walls. Wireless is great for its niche, OK most times, but copper is
great most times so put it in if you can! It is trivial to add wireless
if you want to try it or need it for its niche. Copper if you can.

I'd put wires where there would be computers and in the basement
and such. I don't think I'd wire the living room and dining room
though. We're thinking about building a house (for retirement)
soon, and would likely put in conduit to the basement so the wires
can be replaced. Same for the entertainment center.

--
Keith

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:20:26 -0400, Marc_F_Hult
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:28:46 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote in message :

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


Mark,

Could you please take down this link before someone emulates your
installation and gets electrocuted?

http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/6201_in_dryer.html

If someone connects a 220VAC 4-wire dryer with only three wires, leaving the
chassis ungrounded, the chassis would become hot if one of the conductors you
show running unprotected through the sharp metal edge of the case were to
contact the dryer. With time and vibration owing to dryer movement, this
would be a very likely scenario.

With one hand on the hot chassis, another on a sink or grounded washing
machine, the current would cross their chest and could stop their heart. You
might cause someone to die. Please consider that and do the responsible
thing.

... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

I noticed and corrected that safety problem just after taking those
pictures. There should be a note about that on that page.

I am currently unable to verify that because of what appears to be a
problem with my ISP. I expect to remove or fix that page when I get a
chance.
--
100 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 13:00:18 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote:

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:20:26 -0400, Marc_F_Hult
wrote:

On Wed, 13 Sep 2006 15:28:46 -0500, Mark Lloyd
wrote in message :

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com


Mark,

Could you please take down this link before someone emulates your
installation and gets electrocuted?

http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com/6201_in_dryer.html

If someone connects a 220VAC 4-wire dryer with only three wires, leaving the
chassis ungrounded, the chassis would become hot if one of the conductors you
show running unprotected through the sharp metal edge of the case were to
contact the dryer. With time and vibration owing to dryer movement, this
would be a very likely scenario.

With one hand on the hot chassis, another on a sink or grounded washing
machine, the current would cross their chest and could stop their heart. You
might cause someone to die. Please consider that and do the responsible
thing.

... Marc
Marc_F_Hult
www.ECOntrol.org

I noticed and corrected that safety problem just after taking those
pictures. There should be a note about that on that page.

I am currently unable to verify that because of what appears to be a
problem with my ISP. I expect to remove or fix that page when I get a
chance.

The page is now disabled.
--
100 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On 16 Sep 2006 10:25:42 GMT, lid (Calvin
Henry-Cotnam) wrote:

Todd H. ) said...

Start pushing video or a large volume of photos across to a network
drive on a home network like many media creators do, or appreciate how
trivially most encryption can be broken if you work with sensitive
data in a home business, the case for copper becomes even more
compelling.

With IP-TV services (especially for HD programming) being the next big
thing, this will become a very compelling reason for copper to continue
even further into the future.


Considering the high bandwidth required for IPTV.

[sig snipped, as needed because of incorrect sig separator ("-- ")]
--
100 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"How could you ask be to believe in God when there's
absolutely no evidence that I can see?" -- Jodie Foster

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:22:04 -0400, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
to 801.11g. No video is pretty decent, but I find myself wanting to

That should have been "Now video is pretty decent."

copy 1gb to 8gb files between systems. Time for copper.

Are you going GbE? I don't see the huge gain from 54Mb to 100Mb.

The difference is HUGE between wireless 54Mb and 100baseT ethernet. For
one, you really get 100Mbit on the ethernet. For another, you get
full-duplex. I've never seen 54Mb come even close to 54Mb thruput in
any realistic scenario. Since it is only half-duplex (only one side can
transmit at any given moment) about the best you get is 25Mb. Then
consider that the collision domain is _every_system_ on the wireless net
and your thruput goes way down. I'm actually running one 'G' and two
'B' nets at home, using all three non-colliding channels, just to
seperate traffic.

I'm contemplating GigE. Like you, all I need is a switch. When I see
a deal I can't refuse, I'll jump. The rest of the infrastructure is
ready.

I'd put wires where there would be computers and in the basement
and such. I don't think I'd wire the living room and dining room

Wire dual runs of Cat5 or better to anyplace you might want TV or audio.
Digital media distribution is the future, and Cat-5 means you can get
not only the content, but with power-over-ethernet (POE) simple devices
won't even need a power cable. But your entertainment center definitely
needs network connectivity.

I'd recommend you consider wiring dual runs pretty darn near everywhere.

can be replaced. Same for the entertainment center.

Definitely.

In the future I expect something far better than 802.11 for wireless, or
else networking will be wired in homes the way power was wired 50 years
ago -- outlets in every room, on most walls, but never enough or in the
right place. Unlike power which had to be codified to force outlets
every 12 feet and on every wall, the haphazard approach for networking
will probably be good enough, since 802.11 can fill in the gaps.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

On Fri, 15 Sep 2006 23:20:26 -0400, Marc_F_Hult wrote:
With one hand on the hot chassis, another on a sink or grounded washing
machine, the current would cross their chest and could stop their heart. You
might cause someone to die. Please consider that and do the responsible

The "professional" who wired my last house (new built for me) did one
better... He wired the range swapping hot and ground. My wife never
complained, but the first time I tried to cook pasta and it took forever
to bring water to a boil, and could hardly keep it there, I knew
something was wrong. Started measuring voltages after dinner. The
leads on my DMM were long enough to measure the 120v between chassis of
range and kitchen faucet. Which meant my arms were easily long enough.

When called him, the electrician was wondering if he could barge in on
us at 10pm that night (Sunday). I let him off the hook and just swapped
the wires myself. There were other problems with the wiring in that
house. I wonder if he was as drunk as the finish carpenter who pounded
the base molding thru the drywall rather than cut to length?

I moved into this house some years later. Shortly afterwards, I tested
all the outlets. Found some reversed hot and neutral, and some open
ground. Now perhaps a homeowner messed them up during the 20 years
before I moved in. But with all the coats of paint and loose prongs in
most of the outlets in the house, I'm pretty sure it was original work.

sdb

--
Wanted: Omnibook 800 & accessories, cheap, working or not
sdbuse1 on mailhost bigfoot.com

If you jave the walls open!

eun empty conduit the cheap flexible type to empty boxes with covers
........

this way when something new comes along wiring or rewiring is easy!

no fishing thru insulated spaces cutting access holes etc etc......

On Wed, 20 Sep 2006 23:25:51 -0600, sylvan butler
wrote:

On Sat, 16 Sep 2006 10:22:04 -0400, krw wrote:
In article ,
says...
to 801.11g. No video is pretty decent, but I find myself wanting to

That should have been "Now video is pretty decent."

copy 1gb to 8gb files between systems. Time for copper.

Are you going GbE? I don't see the huge gain from 54Mb to 100Mb.

The difference is HUGE between wireless 54Mb and 100baseT ethernet. For
one, you really get 100Mbit on the ethernet.

Not quite. There's always SOME overhead. Also, the computer and OS
limit the speed you can get. Still expect much greater speed than with
wireless.

BTW, I definitely do get more than 54Mbps on a wired network.

For another, you get
full-duplex. I've never seen 54Mb come even close to 54Mb thruput in
any realistic scenario. Since it is only half-duplex (only one side can
transmit at any given moment) about the best you get is 25Mb. Then
consider that the collision domain is _every_system_ on the wireless net
and your thruput goes way down.

Also, you can expect MUCH LOWER range than advertised (you don't have
ideal conditions at your house). When the signal gets weaker, speed
goes down even more.

I'd still use wireless, but only when necessary (like with a laptop
that's moved around a lot). Never as a substitute for an ethernet
cable.

I'm actually running one 'G' and two
'B' nets at home, using all three non-colliding channels, just to
seperate traffic.


I seem to heard that 3 is about the most non-colliding channels you
can get.

I'm contemplating GigE. Like you, all I need is a switch. When I see
a deal I can't refuse, I'll jump. The rest of the infrastructure is
ready.


If it doesn't cost too much more than 100Mbps equipment.

I'd put wires where there would be computers and in the basement
and such. I don't think I'd wire the living room and dining room

Wire dual runs of Cat5 or better to anyplace you might want TV or audio.
Digital media distribution is the future, and Cat-5 means you can get
not only the content, but with power-over-ethernet (POE) simple devices
won't even need a power cable. But your entertainment center definitely
needs network connectivity.

I'd recommend you consider wiring dual runs pretty darn near everywhere.


One run is probably enough (you can always add a switch there if you
need to). Of course, when you're putting in that one, it wouldn't be
much harder to run two instead.

can be replaced. Same for the entertainment center.

Definitely.

In the future I expect something far better than 802.11 for wireless, or
else networking will be wired in homes the way power was wired 50 years
ago -- outlets in every room, on most walls, but never enough or in the
right place. Unlike power which had to be codified to force outlets
every 12 feet and on every wall, the haphazard approach for networking
will probably be good enough, since 802.11 can fill in the gaps.

sdb
--
95 days until the winter solstice celebration

Mark Lloyd
http://notstupid.laughingsquid.com

"God was invented by man for a reason, that
reason is no longer applicable."

I'm contemplating GigE. Like you, all I need is a switch. When I see
a deal I can't refuse, I'll jump. The rest of the infrastructure is
ready.

Well, a switch alone won't help you. It doesn't do you any good to have a
bunch of gigE workstations if you only have a single gigE link into the
server. It's often cheaper and equally effective to continue using
100BaseT/Full Duplex on the workstations and multiple connections into the
servers using 100BaseT or gigE. The key being able to get as much traffic
in/out of the server devices as workstation demands would require. None of
this matters, however, if you don't have switches that can truly handle that
sort of throughput. It's far better to spend your money on good switches
than it is to waste it on workstation cards. Fast cards ain't worth squat
if the switch can't keep up.

While I agree with Mr. Kearney that it's better to "do it right" in the
first place, I seriously doubt a length of wire would pose any more
hazard in a fire if it was located on the outside of the siding or
underneath it. I've never heard of a cable acting as a "fuse". There
are far more combustible materials used in home construction and I doubt
the "fuse factor" would be pose any real issue. I mean, by the time it
gets hot enough to ignite FT-4 or FT-6 rated jacket, the vinyl siding
would be ablaze as well.

Suit yourself, quite possibly 'law-suit'.

Code exists for a reason. It's all a bunch of little stuff, but much like
the death of a thousand pinpricks, it's the little stuff that adds up. Just
because your one wire isn't a problem doesn't mean it won't become part of a
larger problem later. I've seen and heard tell of all sorts of wiring
stupidities, some DIY, a fair bit by "professionals". I'd rather avoid
doing something lazy on the premise it "might not" be a real problem.

Really, your home is probably the most expensive investment you'll ever make
in your life, why screw around with it? Why put your life and your money at
risk? Just to be cheap/lazy? Honestly, it makes no rational sense.

But hey, feel free, someone's gotta keep the firemen, lawyers and morgue
clerks busy...