I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:38:08 +0000, Christopher Tidy wrote:
Ignoramus16089 wrote:
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

snip

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I expect that I will need to get inside the meter, and will get proper
permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

I believe that that one is, but I will call HF or Cutler-Hammer to
make sure.

i

the transfer switch is a indoor one.

its better to have it inside to minimize kids messing around

install new cable from meter to transfer switch, then new cable to
existing main panel.

How large a generator are you planning? if your from houston with that
13KW unit you might as well get a automatic transfer switch.......

On 20 Aug 2006 14:06:21 -0700, wrote:
the transfer switch is a indoor one.

its better to have it inside to minimize kids messing around

I thought that I could place a padlock on it.

install new cable from meter to transfer switch, then new cable to
existing main panel.

I will double check how this T.S. is supposed to be used, I will call
C-H tomorrow. (indoor vs outdoor rating and padlock/lockout availability)

How large a generator are you planning? if your from houston with that
13KW unit you might as well get a automatic transfer switch.......

I have a 7 kW Onan DJE generator,

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

i

Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined

Ignoramus16089 wrote:

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.


The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment, and
leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you will have
to have the electric company disconnect the power while you put the
switch in the leads from the meter.

If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.

I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John

Ignoramus16089 wrote:
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

snip

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

Best wishes,

Chris

In article ,
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:38:08 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:
Ignoramus16089 wrote:
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

snip

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I expect that I will need to get inside the meter, and will get proper
permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

I believe that that one is, but I will call HF or Cutler-Hammer to
make sure.

i


Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce in alaska
--
add a 2 before @

In article . com,
" wrote:

Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined

Anyone who would replace a Main Breaker with the Meter (Power still on)
still inplace, is either CRAZY, or STUPID..... which one are you???

On 20 Aug 2006 14:19:31 -0700, wrote:
Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:25:59 -0400, john wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.


The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.

Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.

If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.

I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i

I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John

Where I live I dont need to call them to shut off my power I just pull the
metor out just outside my back door.
I called them to let them know that there was no seal on it and that the
glass was cracked he said "so what" None of the metors in this town have
seal wierd eh!
Made replacing my main panel alot easier.

john wrote:

Ignoramus16089 wrote:

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.


The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment, and
leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you will have
to have the electric company disconnect the power while you put the
switch in the leads from the meter.

If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.

I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.

John

I have pulled a meter too no biggie power company thanked me for
informing them...

Had fuse break off in its socket, pulled meter used needlenose to
remove broken fuse replaced meter. 15 minutes tops.

Its not scary but its a good idea to turn main breaker off first so
meter doesnt spark when removed and replaced...

again the replacement generator breaker elminates the need for a
transfer switch, is NEC code compliant and if it werent for my computer
troubles a couple days ago I would have a link

You wrote:
In article . com,
" wrote:


Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined


Anyone who would replace a Main Breaker with the Meter (Power still on)
still inplace, is either CRAZY, or STUPID..... which one are you???
..

Intellitroll (tm):

This should be good for a brief discussion of electrical safety.

Lucy, 'splain to me how shutting off the breaker (no current through
the breaker or the breaker contacts, and snapping the breaker of the
contacts ain't safe? With no current through the breaker, there's no
current through the contacts to make an arc when the breaker is removed.

And what about those CRAZY and STUPID birds that sit on those
uninsulated live wires that feed juice to the pole pigs?

Of course, after the breaker is out, don't be licking your finger and
touching the the box's breaker contacts. And the new breaker must be
put back immediately. A transfer switch breaker would have to have
additional contacts, but in the main power "off" position the genny
contacts and the house side contacts are isolated from the line.

Have fun with this one. I'm going to sit back and observe now.

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:47:25 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
In article ,
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 21:38:08 +0000, Christopher Tidy
wrote:
Ignoramus16089 wrote:
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

snip

If you don't have ready access to the cable which leads from the meter
to the main breaker, or if the cable isn't long enough to cut and wire
into the transfer switch, you are going to need to get inside the meter
to fit a new cable. Which means getting the electricity board's permission.

I expect that I will need to get inside the meter, and will get proper
permission.

I would be inclined to get a professional electrician to do this. You
also need to make sure that the transfer switch is suitable for mounting
outside, if you intend to do so.

I believe that that one is, but I will call HF or Cutler-Hammer to
make sure.

i


Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce, thanks. Couple questions.

Would you say that the better place for T.S. is inside, as someone
else suggested, rather than outside?

Can i use [more flexible and easier to work with] properly sized
welding wire?

i

Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce in alaska
--


all unnecessary with that breaker kit..............

Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:25:59 -0400, john wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:



I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.



The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.



Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.



If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.



I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i



I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John



Iggy, instead of an automatic transfer switch, we put in a manual one
(i.e. just a big, properly enclosed knife switch setup). Manual control
(if you are at home) is pretty easy, and I wonder what kind of erroneous
responses you can get out of an automatic setup.

Our generator is (I think) 7.5kW, it works very nicely to run our house
on the odd occasion we need it. It takes over the panel (via the big
switch) and feeds the whole house, we just take care not to overload
it. We decided we needed it after hearing about the ice storm (10 years
ago?) here in Maine where many people were without power for over a week.

Steve

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:08:47 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:25:59 -0400, john wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:



I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.



The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.



Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.



If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.



I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i



I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John



Iggy, instead of an automatic transfer switch, we put in a manual one
(i.e. just a big, properly enclosed knife switch setup).

yep, that's exactly what I want, and that's what the switch that I
mentioned in my original post, does.


Manual control
(if you are at home) is pretty easy, and I wonder what kind of erroneous
responses you can get out of an automatic setup.

I agree 100%. I would not install an automatic transfer switch in my
worst nightmare.

Our generator is (I think) 7.5kW, it works very nicely to run our house
on the odd occasion we need it. It takes over the panel (via the big
switch) and feeds the whole house, we just take care not to overload
it.

Exactly my plan. Plus I am planning on sharing this with my neighbors,
so that they can run some fridges and furnaces.

i

the main breaker most of the time needs wired in...not snaped in...
Better shut off the power...

In article ,
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:08:47 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:25:59 -0400, john wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:



I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.



The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.



Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.



If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.



I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i



I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John



Iggy, instead of an automatic transfer switch, we put in a manual one
(i.e. just a big, properly enclosed knife switch setup).

yep, that's exactly what I want, and that's what the switch that I
mentioned in my original post, does.


Manual control
(if you are at home) is pretty easy, and I wonder what kind of erroneous
responses you can get out of an automatic setup.

I agree 100%. I would not install an automatic transfer switch in my
worst nightmare.


Y'know, I recall a post someplace (I'll be dipped if I can recall where)
about doing the "100% manual, total-switchover" thing. Let's see if
memory serves me -

Wire generator to appropriate-sized box containing proper amperage power
socket.

Wire meter side to an identical-but-separate box/socket nearby.

Wire house side to appropriate-sized box with a pigtail ending in a
single plug that matches the two sockets, placed so that the plug can
easily be plugged into either socket.

Grid operation: The house pigtail is plugged into the meter socket.

Generator operation: The house pigtail is pulled out of the meter socket
and plugged into the generator socket.

Seems to me that would constitute absolutely failsafe generator
isolation/switching for "Real Cheap", and should still be kosher to
inspectors, assuming proper wire sizes/sockets/plug/etc. go into the
work.

I also remember reading about a neighborhood "emergency power co-op"
that had many of the houses set up in a simliar way, with the special
purpose of keeping things cold/warm. A special FFF - "Fridge, Freezer &
Furnace" circuit ran out to a setup as described. Normal operation had
that circuit plugged into a dedicated box off the breaker panel. During
an extended outage, a shared generator with a custom pigtail to a socket
matching the house plugs made the rounds - A couple hours at each place
kept everything frozen proper and/or warmed up the house.

Our generator is (I think) 7.5kW, it works very nicely to run our house
on the odd occasion we need it. It takes over the panel (via the big
switch) and feeds the whole house, we just take care not to overload
it.

Exactly my plan. Plus I am planning on sharing this with my neighbors,
so that they can run some fridges and furnaces.

EEP!!!!

RUN AWAY!

You're setting yourself up for a complete disaster if you try that
action! You *DON'T* want to be dinking around running extension cords to
neighbors when you're running off a genny - The losses in the cords will
eat you (and your generator - and if things go completely wrong, one or
more houses...) alive unless you're in a rowhouse/apartment building
type situation. (and even then, you're dicey)

--
Don Bruder - - If your "From:" address isn't on my whitelist,
or the subject of the message doesn't contain the exact text "PopperAndShadow"
somewhere, any message sent to this address will go in the garbage without my
ever knowing it arrived. Sorry... http://www.sonic.net/~dakidd for more info

Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 22:08:47 -0400, Steve Smith wrote:


Ignoramus16089 wrote:



On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 17:25:59 -0400, john wrote:




Ignoramus16089 wrote:





I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.





The first thing you should do is to determine if you want to put
everything on the transfer switch or only the emergency equipment,
and leave off the unnecessary items. If you switch everything you
will have to have the electric company disconnect the power while
you put the switch in the leads from the meter.




Yes, that's what I want. Everything on the switch.





If you only want the emergency equipment to run ( furnace, lighting,
refrigerator, freezer) then you put in a branch ckt and run all
emergency the stuff off the branch ckt box. The switch is tied between
the branch and the main box. This can be done without having the
electric company turn off the power.




I do not want that. I want the entire house on the generator/transfer
switch, I would simply not use certain loads that are too heavy for
the generator (like central A/C).

I have a decent generator that can power my entire house if I turn off
A/C, pool heater, and use the electric kitchen range very sparingly.

Why should I shortchange myself.

Like I said in my original post, I am not interested in a transfer
switch for a few circuits.

i





I would recommend you consult a qualified electrician.


John





Iggy, instead of an automatic transfer switch, we put in a manual one
(i.e. just a big, properly enclosed knife switch setup).



yep, that's exactly what I want, and that's what the switch that I
mentioned in my original post, does.




Manual control
(if you are at home) is pretty easy, and I wonder what kind of erroneous
responses you can get out of an automatic setup.



I agree 100%. I would not install an automatic transfer switch in my
worst nightmare.



Our generator is (I think) 7.5kW, it works very nicely to run our house
on the odd occasion we need it. It takes over the panel (via the big
switch) and feeds the whole house, we just take care not to overload
it.



Exactly my plan. Plus I am planning on sharing this with my neighbors,
so that they can run some fridges and furnaces.

i



I misunderstood (or more likely didn't read close enough) previous posts.

Steve

wrote:
the main breaker most of the time needs wired in...not snaped in...
Better shut off the power...


When that is the case, I agree. Shut the main off, pull the meter.

--
Anybody answering this post consents to having their replies posted on
my website.
(Not that I need your consent since you post to public domain.)

Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On 20 Aug 2006 14:19:31 -0700, wrote:
Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined


Square D makes generator back feed interlock kits for several of their
panels. I installed on in the new QO panel I recently installed.

http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/...00892680126e4f

Pete C.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:06:00 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On 20 Aug 2006 14:19:31 -0700, wrote:
Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined


Square D makes generator back feed interlock kits for several of their
panels. I installed on in the new QO panel I recently installed.

http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/...00892680126e4f


Pete, your link did not work for me, sorry. If Homeline is a brand of
Square D, I will just call them on the phone.

i

Whats in that box with the wheels? Looks interesting


"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 14:28:04 -0400, Saul wrote:
Whats in that box with the wheels? Looks interesting

generator.

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Diesel/

i


"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

Ignoramus4235 wrote:

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 16:06:00 GMT, Pete C. wrote:
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

On 20 Aug 2006 14:19:31 -0700, wrote:
Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined


Square D makes generator back feed interlock kits for several of their
panels. I installed on in the new QO panel I recently installed.

http://ecatalog.squared.com/techlib/...00892680126e4f


Pete, your link did not work for me, sorry. If Homeline is a brand of
Square D, I will just call them on the phone.

i

You are correct, that link does appear to be hosed. This one works:

http://www.squared.com/us/applications/residential.nsf/LookupFiles/RetaiLinkDec2002small.pdf/$file/RetaiLinkDec2002small.pdf

I don't believe these kits are applicable to panel models other than QO
and Homeline, even if the Homeline breakers follow the standardized 1"
breaker format.

Pete C.

In article ,
Ignoramus16089 wrote:

Hey Iggy, what most folks do when installing a "Whole House" transfer
switch, is to:

1. Have the electrician make arrangments for with the Power
Authority to have a reconnect schedualed after figuing about
how long the job will take, then break the seal and remove the
Meter, replace the wires from the MeterBase to the Main Breaker
with wires long enough to reach thru the short connecting conduit
between the Main Panel and the Transfer Switch and connect to the
Grid side of the Transfer Switch.
2. Add the wires from the common side of the Transfer Switch back to
the Main Breaker in the panel.
3. Have the Power Authority Guy inspect the work, replace and reseal
the meter.
4. Finish wiring in the Genset on the Genset side of the Transfer
Switch, and your DONE, except writing the the cheque to the
electrician, for his services.

Bruce, thanks. Couple questions.

Would you say that the better place for T.S. is inside, as someone
else suggested, rather than outside?

Can i use [more flexible and easier to work with] properly sized
welding wire?

i

I would install the Transfer Switch as close to the Main Panel as
possible. Typically, adjacent with a 1 1/2" Dia. nipple in between,
as you can run the new wires from the MeterBase into the Main Panel,
and thru the nipple to the Transfer Switch, and then from the Transfer
Switch back to the Main Breaker. This keeps the runs short, and makes
for centrally located Home Power Managment, as you may want to drop
some of the loads offline in the Main Panel when running OffGrid on
the Genset.

You can use any UL 600V Insulated wire, of the appropriate size for the
current, that suits you. It is the Insulation Rating that the Inspector
will be looking at. Typically Welding Cable isn't rated at 600V, so you
may have to find a suitable wire that has the UL Insulation Rating
approprite to the service.

Bruce in alaska who likes Welding Cable for Battery Jumpers and
Inverter Dc Feedlines.......
--
add a 2 before @

On Mon, 21 Aug 2006 19:55:51 GMT, Bruce in Alaska wrote:
I would install the Transfer Switch as close to the Main Panel as
possible. Typically, adjacent with a 1 1/2" Dia. nipple in between,
as you can run the new wires from the MeterBase into the Main Panel,
and thru the nipple to the Transfer Switch, and then from the Transfer
Switch back to the Main Breaker. This keeps the runs short, and makes
for centrally located Home Power Managment, as you may want to drop
some of the loads offline in the Main Panel when running OffGrid on
the Genset.

OK, I like this idea a lot. I will do it exactly as you say, all my
doubts have been resolved.

You can use any UL 600V Insulated wire, of the appropriate size for the
current, that suits you. It is the Insulation Rating that the Inspector
will be looking at. Typically Welding Cable isn't rated at 600V, so you
may have to find a suitable wire that has the UL Insulation Rating
approprite to the service.

OK, I will definitely look for suitable 600v rated wire -- the
flexible wire is so much easier to work with, it is worth the extra
$$ -- not that much for just a dozen feet or so.

i

On Sun, 20 Aug 2006 19:38:19 GMT, Ignoramus16089
wrote:

I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

It would be best there, but you might want a safety switch before
that... You're going to make me go get my copy of NEC aren't you?
The new one has a whole section on transfer switches and generator
connections - and I didn't memorize the darned thing.

But with your luck, your local codes are locally written and totally
different. They really aren't standardized that well.

Make it easy on yourself - Call your local city/county building
inspector, make an appointment for a pow-wow and talk it over, ask
him/her what he wants to see. You can over-engineer it and make it
"perfect" - but why? KISS.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

You could stick it to one side of the meter socket, and put a big
nipple or fitting between the boxes - but it's not the preferred
method. You would have to send the 'Utility In' and 'Switch Out'
power going through the same conduit and through the same meter socket
can, and it would be too easy to get an accidental backfeed out onto
the utility lines. ESPECIALLY if someone else gets in there and isn't
clear on the concept.

I'd put the transfer switch off to one side of the main, and abandon
the wires going out the back of the meter socket can directly to the
house breaker panel. Make a new house feed out the back of the
transfer switch going inside to the house breaker panel. And at the
bottom of the transfer switch you put a landing-lug box where the
leads from the portable generator tie down.

Try to lay it out so the wires inside the transfer switch can do not
physically cross inside the can - so if the wires get all hot and
melty (technical term, I know...) they can't make an unintentional
cross connection.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I've always seen them in commercial situations with the Utility Main
Breaker placed ahead of the transfer switch, so they can open that
breaker as a drop-dead "No Way In HELL it can backfeed" safety. The
extra safety step makes the utility linemen working on the snapped
lines much happier when they hear a generator running way off in the
distance.

That way you still have the separate Fire Alarm disconnect in
parallel with the Main Breaker as a place to monitor whether the
Utility Power has come back up. (For a business they might turn off
and lock the Main and kill the lights for non-payment, but they have
to leave the Fire Alarm feed on or the insurance coverage goes away.
And it's also a Life Safety issue.)

In a residential situation, if you want to change over the entire
house on the transfer switch you'd need a separate fused switch or
enclosed breaker to power the monitor light. And get the concept
cleared by the local inspector. Otherwise, how do you know for sure
when they've got the utility power back on?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

If it's a safe place to make a hole, you can get a pilot drill and a
knockout punch and blast a hole through the side of the can in about
two minutes. They can't put knockouts everywhere anyone could
possibly need them, or the can would fall apart...

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

"Perfect" is an unreachable goal unless you are Bill Gates and have
a ton o' money to spend on "Perfect" - Lets see here... A 40KW or
60KW genset with a ton of excess motor- starting oomph and automatic
transfer switch, a large fuel tank, and a big UPS inverter running all
the critical systems in the house as hold-over - That'll only cost you
25 grand or so to set up...

The lights go out partially, you hear a very muted engine cranking
and starting outside, and 15 seconds later all the lights pop back on
like nothing happened, and will stay that way for days. And the
genset is big enough that no power budgeting is needed, you can be
working in the shop on the lathe with the AC up full blast while the
Mrs. is baking in the electric oven, no worries.

-- Bruce --

no one that you know wrote:
Where I live I dont need to call them to shut off my power I just
pull the metor out just outside my back door.
I called them to let them know that there was no seal on it and that
the glass was cracked he said "so what" None of the metors in this
town have seal wierd eh!
Made replacing my main panel alot easier.

My meter has been without a seal for several years now . Called the power
company when I first broke the seal to work on my breaker box , they never
came out to replace it . My panel was replaced recently too - after I looked
inside and saw the AC breaker arcing on the tab .
Got a buncha poles not being used - yet . Also got the capacity to wire
my shed/shop properly now , with it's own box . Which is where I'll feed the
main panel from next time I need to use the generator .
Betcha if my power usage goes down significantly they'll be out with a
seal . And a warrant . Only ones that get to steal from the utility company
here are the people in charge ...
--

Snag aka OSG #1
'76 FLH "Bag Lady"
BS132 SENS NEWT
"A hand shift is a manly shift ."
shamelessly stolen
none to one to reply

"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

Is this 200 amps at 120, or 200 amps at 240? You have 240 service, but are
the amps 200 from hot to hot, or the sum of each leg to neutral? 200 amps
at 240 is 48kw. I question because 48kw is vastly in excess of typical
residential power requirements. Consider the possibility that the next size
down the 100 amp unit, is the fit. The 200 amp unit is a HUGE box! It's
designed to switch a 48kw hot load.

We have a master disconnect. The transfer switch is located between the
master disconnect and the main panel. We use a second transfer switch to
disconnect optional loads, and shunt them directly to a 2nd generator.



I plan on getting a proper permit, but I want to understand the work
involved.

Here's a picture of our power meter:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/onan/Dies...d/dscf0209.jpg

I understand that the proper electrical placement of the TS is to
place it between the power meter and house main breaker. It is the
physical layout that has me confused.

The meter has a prepunched hole to the right, below the utility seal
line. Not sure if it is helpful. After the meter, the electric cable
goes right inside the house, to the panel that is right behind the
meter (maybe 1 foot long).

The question is, how to install a transfer switch here. I aam
obviously unable to open the meter to look, since it is sealed.

What is the normal location of the transfer switch? How is it usually
connected to the meter box?

I would think that if, hypothetically, the meter box had a prepunched
knockout hole a little above the meter, then I would tap there quite
easily, but it does not seem to be the case.

I want to do a 100% perfect job here, that would be inspected and all,
so I want to do it right. Any good assistance would be appreciated.

i

P.S. I would like to avoid suggestions like "just get a little 6
circuit emergen transfer switch", it is not the right one for our
situation.

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:29:56 -0400, Robert Morein wrote:

"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.

Is this 200 amps at 120, or 200 amps at 240? You have 240 service, but are
the amps 200 from hot to hot, or the sum of each leg to neutral? 200 amps
at 240 is 48kw. I question because 48kw is vastly in excess of typical
residential power requirements.

I have a 240V panel, and the breaker says "200" on its handle. It is a
breaker that would open if current through one of its legs exceeded
200 amps (that's a nominal rating, meaning that it would allow for
momentary overcurrents to some extent).

While I rarely use 43 kW of power, I do at times use a lot of
power. Example. I am TIG welding in my garage, my wife is cooking a
lot of food on the range, my A/C is running, etc. That could easily
add up to 140 amps or more (and would be a very rare occurrence).

Consider the possibility that the next size down the 100 amp unit,
is the fit. The 200 amp unit is a HUGE box! It's designed to switch
a 48kw hot load.

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

We have a master disconnect. The transfer switch is located between the
master disconnect and the main panel. We use a second transfer switch to
disconnect optional loads, and shunt them directly to a 2nd generator.

sounds interesting.

i

Ignoramus20689 wrote:

i

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

Well you could put in a sub panel and put the transfer switch in the
feed to the sub panel

I have been following this tread because I am thinking of going the sub
panel rout.
The down side is you have to decide which circuits will be on the sub
panel. I my
case its only the well. the outlets in the kitchen and the lights in the
kitchen.

Bill K7NOM

On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:29:54 GMT, Bill Janssen wrote:
Ignoramus20689 wrote:

i

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

Well you could put in a sub panel and put the transfer switch in the
feed to the sub panel

I have been following this tread because I am thinking of going the
sub panel rout. The down side is you have to decide which circuits
will be on the sub panel. I my case its only the well. the outlets
in the kitchen and the lights in the kitchen.

In my case, I have a lot of circuits, most of which supply some
important loads but draw very little current, like compact fluorescent
lighting. So choosing only very few of them would inconvenience me
greatly.

i

Ignoramus20689 wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 23:29:54 GMT, Bill Janssen wrote:
Ignoramus20689 wrote:

i

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

Well you could put in a sub panel and put the transfer switch in the
feed to the sub panel

I have been following this tread because I am thinking of going the
sub panel rout. The down side is you have to decide which circuits
will be on the sub panel. I my case its only the well. the outlets
in the kitchen and the lights in the kitchen.

In my case, I have a lot of circuits, most of which supply some
important loads but draw very little current, like compact fluorescent
lighting. So choosing only very few of them would inconvenience me
greatly.

i

I have a feeling I'm going to regret this, but here goes...

I too was concerned with the limited number of circuits available with
typical, sub panel type transfer switches. I have a 16kw generator,
and a 16 circuit sub panel type ATS. I have circuits that literally
draw less than an amp or two in most situations, never more than 5
amps. I just wired them together in the main panel. Kind of rigged my
16 circuit sub panel into an ever expanding sub panel, probably 24 or
more circuits are controlled now.

It's an automatic transfer switch, which I know you do not want, but I
did the same thing last year when a hurricane hit and I had a 6 circuit
manual switch. I had 6 circuits wired, but was using a fraction of the
generator's power. At the time, I had a 7500 watt generator, and
averaged about 2000 watts. So I added rooms as needed, with no ill
effects.

FWIW it's a Generac 5244 generator and matched transfer switch. I
thought about the service disconnect, whole house transfer switch, but
I know my family cannot control their energy consumption. When
breaking in my generator, my wife turned on the Advantium oven
(microwave on steroids). It kept up, but only because the 5 ton AC was
not running. And I cautioned about turning on lights when breaking
in..........

Brad

Ignoramus20689 wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:29:56 -0400, Robert Morein wrote:
"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.
Is this 200 amps at 120, or 200 amps at 240? You have 240 service, but are
the amps 200 from hot to hot, or the sum of each leg to neutral? 200 amps
at 240 is 48kw. I question because 48kw is vastly in excess of typical
residential power requirements.

I have a 240V panel, and the breaker says "200" on its handle. It is a
breaker that would open if current through one of its legs exceeded
200 amps (that's a nominal rating, meaning that it would allow for
momentary overcurrents to some extent).

While I rarely use 43 kW of power, I do at times use a lot of
power. Example. I am TIG welding in my garage, my wife is cooking a
lot of food on the range, my A/C is running, etc. That could easily
add up to 140 amps or more (and would be a very rare occurrence).

Consider the possibility that the next size down the 100 amp unit,
is the fit. The 200 amp unit is a HUGE box! It's designed to switch
a 48kw hot load.

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

We have a master disconnect. The transfer switch is located between the
master disconnect and the main panel. We use a second transfer switch to
disconnect optional loads, and shunt them directly to a 2nd generator.

sounds interesting.

i


You have identified the correct switch. A two hundred ampere main
breaker results in the need for a two hundred ampere transfer assembly.
Be advised that a main breaker interlock kit will achieve the same
result at far lower cost. What brand and model is your main breaker
enclosure; such as your main distribution panel?
--
Tom Horne

Well we aren't no thin blue heroes and yet we aren't no blackguards to.
We're just working men and woman most remarkable like you.

On Wed, 23 Aug 2006 19:41:48 GMT, Thomas D. Horne, FF EMT wrote:
Ignoramus20689 wrote:
On Tue, 22 Aug 2006 15:29:56 -0400, Robert Morein wrote:
"Ignoramus16089" wrote in message
...
I would like to install a real transfer switch like this one

http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/cta...emnumber=42163

Our house is wired for 200 amps, so this is the right size for us.
Is this 200 amps at 120, or 200 amps at 240? You have 240 service, but are
the amps 200 from hot to hot, or the sum of each leg to neutral? 200 amps
at 240 is 48kw. I question because 48kw is vastly in excess of typical
residential power requirements.

I have a 240V panel, and the breaker says "200" on its handle. It is a
breaker that would open if current through one of its legs exceeded
200 amps (that's a nominal rating, meaning that it would allow for
momentary overcurrents to some extent).

While I rarely use 43 kW of power, I do at times use a lot of
power. Example. I am TIG welding in my garage, my wife is cooking a
lot of food on the range, my A/C is running, etc. That could easily
add up to 140 amps or more (and would be a very rare occurrence).

Consider the possibility that the next size down the 100 amp unit,
is the fit. The 200 amp unit is a HUGE box! It's designed to switch
a 48kw hot load.

Well, I would surely be happy to use a smaller and cheaper box, if it
was possible, but it is my understanding that the rating of transfer
switch should match the rating of the house's electrical service.

We have a master disconnect. The transfer switch is located between the
master disconnect and the main panel. We use a second transfer switch to
disconnect optional loads, and shunt them directly to a 2nd generator.

sounds interesting.

i


You have identified the correct switch. A two hundred ampere main
breaker results in the need for a two hundred ampere transfer assembly.
Be advised that a main breaker interlock kit will achieve the same
result at far lower cost. What brand and model is your main breaker
enclosure; such as your main distribution panel?

ITE Gould. It accepts Homeline breakers for branch circuits.

i

On 2006-08-21, Bruce in Alaska wrote:

I would install the Transfer Switch as close to the Main Panel as
possible. Typically, adjacent with a 1 1/2" Dia. nipple in between

What is the proper detailing for this nipple, to make it raintight?

Thanks, Wayne

Ignoramus16089 wrote:
On 20 Aug 2006 14:19:31 -0700, wrote:
Did you know theres a safe easier way Legal too!!!

I think its cutler hammer that has a special breaker for generator
connection.

either the main breaker can be on OR the generator but not both.

My panel is by ITE Gould. (which I think is compatible with
homeline).

There is a company interlockkit.com, but I do not like their product,
personally.

i

completely code legal you install this dual pole 240 volt breaker
connect your generator and your good to go.

Someone posted a link recently WAY cheaper than a transfer switch, no
mucking with meter or even permits if your so inclined



I'm afraid you are out of luck on a transfer interlock kit as ITE/Gould
is no longer manufactured.

If you install a Square D feed through lug panel ahead of your existing
panel and add a generator interlock kit to it you will still come out
cheaper than the full sized transfer switch for the materials the labor
will be similar.
--
Tom Horne

"This alternating current stuff is just a fad. It is much too dangerous
for general use." Thomas Alva Edison