Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water +
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away. I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side, put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web" if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )? Something like this (looking from above):


IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
II II II II
II
II II II II
II
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

(sorry, my ASCII art isn't the greatest).

Thanks much for any advice!
Cheers,
cc

After living on a hill in TN where the slope was also towards the house
and it rains much more than in AZ (I'm guessing) altho I am now back in
SW KS where it is also relatively dry (but flat), I'm thinking you're
over-designing a solution for your problem.

I'd simply regrade a section of the drive to be slightly lower than the
level and then make it run back upwards a short section before the
entrance to the garage and house. Then, a simple grade across the
drive will divert the water around the house rather than letting it
pool. A gravelled area might be nice for a flow area to ensure it
doesn't cut a gulley in a narrow location...that solution worked well
in TN w/ quite steep slope and heavy rains and was relatively cheap and
quite simple to implement.


James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water +
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away. I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side, put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web" if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )? Something like this (looking from above):


IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
II II II II
II
II II II II
II
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

(sorry, my ASCII art isn't the greatest).

Thanks much for any advice!
Cheers,
cc

"dpb" wrote in message
s.com...
After living on a hill in TN where the slope was also towards the house
and it rains much more than in AZ (I'm guessing) altho I am now back in
SW KS where it is also relatively dry (but flat), I'm thinking you're
over-designing a solution for your problem.

I'd simply regrade a section of the drive to be slightly lower than the
level and then make it run back upwards a short section before the
entrance to the garage and house. Then, a simple grade across the
drive will divert the water around the house rather than letting it
pool. A gravelled area might be nice for a flow area to ensure it
doesn't cut a gulley in a narrow location...that solution worked well
in TN w/ quite steep slope and heavy rains and was relatively cheap and
quite simple to implement.

I thought about that but the drive is relatively short which wouldn't allow
for much grading without creating a "roller coaster" affect so to speak.
I know darn well that I'll build this thing and it'll never rain again!
Cheers,
cc

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
s.com...
....
I'd simply regrade a section of the drive to be slightly lower than the
level and then make it run back upwards a short section before the
entrance to the garage and house. ...

I thought about that but the drive is relatively short which wouldn't allow
for much grading without creating a "roller coaster" affect so to speak.
....

How steep a grade and how short a drive? Doesn't need much, just
enough that the water doesn't crest owing to inertia down the slope,
but since you're not paved anyway, that effect is minimal.

If that still isn't feasible, I'd think you could accomplish the
objective simply by pouring a narrow section of concrete across the
drive at an angle to be a solid barrier and thus divert the water when
it hits the barrier. A couple of those could even diffuse the
collection point(s) so not all is concentrated in a single stream.

That's similar to your grate, but less expense--in essence it's a
one-sided channel where you've proposed a full-blown canal. Where the
problem is intermittent at worst, still seems like overkill to me to go
much more than that...

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water +
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away. I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side, put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web" if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )? Something like this (looking from above):


IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
II II II II
II
II II II II
II
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

(sorry, my ASCII art isn't the greatest).

Thanks much for any advice!
Cheers,
cc



Is there any way you can waterproof the lower part of that wall?

Lou

"James "Cubby" Culbertson" wrote in message
. ..
Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water +
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away. I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side, put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web" if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )?

How about digging the trench, laying plastic drain pipe in it, and covering
it back to the surface with sharp gravel. You could even lay a steel drain
grate on the top before the last gravel to hold the gravel in place.

Bob

"dpb" wrote in message
oups.com...
How steep a grade and how short a drive? Doesn't need much, just
enough that the water doesn't crest owing to inertia down the slope,
but since you're not paved anyway, that effect is minimal.

If that still isn't feasible, I'd think you could accomplish the
objective simply by pouring a narrow section of concrete across the
drive at an angle to be a solid barrier and thus divert the water when
it hits the barrier. A couple of those could even diffuse the
collection point(s) so not all is concentrated in a single stream.

That's similar to your grate, but less expense--in essence it's a
one-sided channel where you've proposed a full-blown canal. Where the
problem is intermittent at worst, still seems like overkill to me to go
much more than that...


Thanks for the suggestions! If I can do this relatively cheaply, I will!

I haven't measured the drive but it's probably around 80 ft long. The
problem I have is at the end of the drive, it levels out. So all the water
I'm getting is coming from the drive itself. It levels out a bit as it
enters the garage. I suppose I could try to re-grade it and I'll look into
that. I'm worried I'd have a "speed bump" in the middle of the driveway
though. Your suggestion of concrete diversion dams sounds intriguing but
again, I'd be worried about them being speed bumps or I may be
misunderstanding your suggestion.
Thanks for the help!
cc

James "Cubby" Culbertson wrote:
"dpb" wrote in message
oups.com...
....
I haven't measured the drive but it's probably around 80 ft long. The
problem I have is at the end of the drive, it levels out. So all the water
I'm getting is coming from the drive itself. It levels out a bit as it
enters the garage. I suppose I could try to re-grade it and I'll look into
that. I'm worried I'd have a "speed bump" in the middle of the driveway
though. Your suggestion of concrete diversion dams sounds intriguing but
again, I'd be worried about them being speed bumps or I may be
misunderstanding your suggestion.

That's essentially the situation I had in TN. All you need is to have
the point roughly 5-6ft in front of the garage slab 2" or so lower than
the slab. That will be enough of a barrier the water won't run into
the garage and with just a slight slope to the side as well it will
simply run off rather than pool.

It doesn't need to be a sharp drop or even very large so there really
is no need to have a severe grade change, hence no bump.

The diversion dam I envision would be at the height of the gravel
surface and would utilize the porosity of the gravel surface rather
than creating a dam above the surface. If the surface is packed
extremely tightly that might not work, but I inferred it was relatively
decent-sized stone. The only issue I would see might be the gravel
might gradually want to move downhill so you might occasionally have to
grade it back out, but in that case it would seem to be an issue w/ the
more extensive system as well...

I really can't envision a reason there couldn't be sufficient room to
make a catch trough that would essentially eliminate the problem...

I have a sloping down double driveway and when we get heavy rains it
looks like a waterfall. At the bottom and off to the side I installed
a drain box and connected a tube that runs around the house into the
backyard. It works well and carries off the water quickly---no more
problems. I clean out the box once a year--usually about an inch of
dirt collects there. You can do something similar. Look at the
driveway edge and find the wettest area during a rain storm---that's
where you want to install the drain box. The problem with putting in
a grate is that some women have narrow high-heel spikes.


On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:11:02 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water +
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away. I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side, put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web" if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )? Something like this (looking from above):


IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII
II II II II
II
II II II II
II
IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII IIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIII

(sorry, my ASCII art isn't the greatest).

Thanks much for any advice!
Cheers,
cc

"dpb" wrote in message
oups.com...

That's essentially the situation I had in TN. All you need is to have
the point roughly 5-6ft in front of the garage slab 2" or so lower than
the slab. That will be enough of a barrier the water won't run into
the garage and with just a slight slope to the side as well it will
simply run off rather than pool.

It doesn't need to be a sharp drop or even very large so there really
is no need to have a severe grade change, hence no bump.

The diversion dam I envision would be at the height of the gravel
surface and would utilize the porosity of the gravel surface rather
than creating a dam above the surface. If the surface is packed
extremely tightly that might not work, but I inferred it was relatively
decent-sized stone. The only issue I would see might be the gravel
might gradually want to move downhill so you might occasionally have to
grade it back out, but in that case it would seem to be an issue w/ the
more extensive system as well...

I really can't envision a reason there couldn't be sufficient room to
make a catch trough that would essentially eliminate the problem...


The problem is I'm trying to divert it before it hits 5-6 ft in front of the
garage. And 2" won't be enough. Our rains here are not light rains but
heavy downpours that just wash down over anything without soaking in.
We're famous for our "Flash Floods" here. I'm definitely going to take your
advice and look at other alternatives vs. pouring all that concrete. I
wonder if pre-cast is reasonable. Of course not, what was I thinking!
Cheers,
cc

"Lou" wrote in message
...
Is there any way you can waterproof the lower part of that wall?

Lou

I suppose. I do plan to do some re-grading around the wall to help but my
house foundation is right there too. And the way it's been raining, it may
just make it's way into the garage too.
cc

"Bob" wrote in message
. ..

How about digging the trench, laying plastic drain pipe in it, and
covering
it back to the surface with sharp gravel. You could even lay a steel drain
grate on the top before the last gravel to hold the gravel in place.

Bob



The rains come so quickly here that it'll just roll right over the gravel.
I've got french drains else where and they still flood. The areas dry out
faster but there's still the flooding.
cc

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
I have a sloping down double driveway and when we get heavy rains it
looks like a waterfall. At the bottom and off to the side I installed
a drain box and connected a tube that runs around the house into the
backyard. It works well and carries off the water quickly---no more
problems. I clean out the box once a year--usually about an inch of
dirt collects there. You can do something similar. Look at the
driveway edge and find the wettest area during a rain storm---that's
where you want to install the drain box. The problem with putting in
a grate is that some women have narrow high-heel spikes.


On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 09:11:02 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:

Hiya Folks,
I live in the arid SW although recently it's feeling more like Ireland
these
days! Anyway, my house is at the end of a sloping (down) driveway. The
driveway is made of 8" or so of crusher run compacted. Anyway, with the
increased rains this year, the water is just running down the drive and
pooling at the edge of the house and a new adobe wall I constructed (water
+
Adobe = Not Good). So I'm looking for ideas to keep this water away.
I'm
able to divert it to the west side of the drive and create a large dry
well
easily enough. I was thinking of digging a trench across the driveway
approx. 18" wide by say 12" deep at the east end and sloping pretty
significantly down as it moves west towards the dry well. I was thinking
of pouring a 6" footer slab in the trench with 5" walls on either side,
put
a notch in the tops of these walls and putting in grating. My thoughts
are
I'd catch the water running down the drive and divert it to the dry well.
Any thoughts on this approach? I'm not sure if a 6" footer and 5" walls
are enough for vehicular traffic or even if this is a viable idea. A
french
drain is not an option. The rains fall heavy and the water is just
surface
water that flows quickly. Should I be thinking about creating a "web"
if
you will by pouring supports between the two walls (obviously with a pipe
through it )? Something like this (looking from above):

Before you start building forms, check out the prefab drains at your local
concrete specialty products dealer. They have those in plastic and slotted
galavinized culvert pipe now. With whatever you use, I would plan on at
least a couple of feet paved up top, to reduce gravel being washed in.

aem sends...

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
I have a sloping down double driveway and when we get heavy rains it
looks like a waterfall. At the bottom and off to the side I installed
a drain box and connected a tube that runs around the house into the
backyard. It works well and carries off the water quickly---no more
problems. I clean out the box once a year--usually about an inch of
dirt collects there. You can do something similar. Look at the
driveway edge and find the wettest area during a rain storm---that's
where you want to install the drain box. The problem with putting in
a grate is that some women have narrow high-heel spikes.

Was this box something you got at a place like HD/Lowes or is it a specialty
item?
That may be a possibility. Thanks.

On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 16:23:18 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:


"Phisherman" wrote in message
.. .
I have a sloping down double driveway and when we get heavy rains it
looks like a waterfall. At the bottom and off to the side I installed
a drain box and connected a tube that runs around the house into the
backyard. It works well and carries off the water quickly---no more
problems. I clean out the box once a year--usually about an inch of
dirt collects there. You can do something similar. Look at the
driveway edge and find the wettest area during a rain storm---that's
where you want to install the drain box. The problem with putting in
a grate is that some women have narrow high-heel spikes.

Was this box something you got at a place like HD/Lowes or is it a specialty
item?
That may be a possibility. Thanks.



Yes. I bought the box at HD, no specialty item. I suppose Lowes would
carry them too. They had two sizes and I bought the larger one
with a removable non-breakable nylon grid on top.

"Phisherman" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 1 Aug 2006 16:23:18 -0600, "James \"Cubby\" Culbertson"
wrote:


"Phisherman" wrote in message
. ..
I have a sloping down double driveway and when we get heavy rains it
looks like a waterfall. At the bottom and off to the side I installed
a drain box and connected a tube that runs around the house into the
backyard. It works well and carries off the water quickly---no more
problems. I clean out the box once a year--usually about an inch of
dirt collects there. You can do something similar. Look at the
driveway edge and find the wettest area during a rain storm---that's
where you want to install the drain box. The problem with putting in
a grate is that some women have narrow high-heel spikes.

Was this box something you got at a place like HD/Lowes or is it a
specialty
item?
That may be a possibility. Thanks.



Yes. I bought the box at HD, no specialty item. I suppose Lowes would
carry them too. They had two sizes and I bought the larger one
with a removable non-breakable nylon grid on top.

Thanks Phish. I'm starting to lean more and more to this idea. I have to
figure how I can regrade the drive but I think I can do that.
I intend to put down a couple of inches of crusher fines anyway so might as
well do the whole enchilada! Thanks much.
Cheers,
cc