Refer to the thread entitled "How to upgrade outlets and switches"
wherein the OP seeks to replace some incorrectly-installed grounding
receptacles with either non-grounding type or GFCI's. I also had a
similar problem but with only one outlet. For some reason the ground,
normally supplied by the AC cable, was missing even though a grounding
duplex outlet had been installed. IOW using the standard neon light
tester I could not get a circuit between hot (black) and ground on the
outlet, nor between hot and the metal box. I suspect that the cable
was not properly clamped to the box there or at the previous box but
since this is an infrequently used outlet I wasn't planning to pull
the cable to investigate. All other boxes on the same circuit had
ground. The box was far too shallow to install a GFCI so I decided to
put in a non-grounding duplex outlet. Then the problems began.

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.
Lowes had non-grounding duplex receptacles in ivory and white and HD
had them only in white. I really wanted brown to conform to all the
other switches and outlets in the house so, thinking of how much
better the "real" electrical suppliers are according to the
"professionals" on this group, I set out to find what I needed.

First I tried the "real" hardware store where everyone is treated as a
shoplifter. You not only can't browse because such an activity would
take up the expensive conditioned air of the store but everything that
could be physically lifted is kept under lock and key. The owner,
taking time out from complaining about the government with his
layabout cronies deigned to acknowledge my presence with "Yeah?"
typical of such establishments. I ask for a non-grounding duplex
receptacle in brown. He grunts and disappears into the back. Several
hours later--it seemed like that but was probably only ten or so
minutes -- he reappeared and tossed a grounding receptacle on the
counter.

"Er no," say I, "That's a grounding receptacle. The non-grounding type
has only two pins." Mind you, give him his due: He did get the color
right.

"That's all I have," says he, returning to his debate about how the
liberals are ruining the country.

OK, let's move on. My son happens to work for a large commercial
electrician; the type that wires up large buildings and factories.
He's always offering to help me with any electrical problem and he is
on a first name basis with the counter jockeys at (supposedly) the
largest electrical wholesaler in the region. So I explain what I want
and even give him the ivory version I purchased from Lowes.

According to him his encounter with the electrical supplier was far
more cordial than mine was with the hardware guy but still resulted in
a look of amazement at the receptacle and a statement that they
couldn't sell him one because "it's illegal". Although he pointed out
that it's for him personally and not to install on any commercial job
they were adamant.

He continued looking at some of his hardware contacts and in the
meantime I checked that a brown one actually exists. It does. Leviton
list it as part #223.

So off I go to my more residential-related electrical supplier and
after patiently waiting my turn behind half-a-dozen electricians all
discussing how the liberals have ruined the country, the counter
jockey finally gave me the standard, "Yeah?" I proceeded to explain
what I wanted and his reaction was, "You need a time machine."

Much merriment among the electricians at this witticism. I then point
out that it's currently made and is shown in Leviton's catalog as part
#223. Amazingly they had actually heard of Leviton (I'm being
sarcastic). However their reaction was to tell me that I didn't need
the non-grounding type because any receptacle would be automatically
grounded when I screwed it into the box. The "professional"
electricians nod gravely, thinking no doubt that this is a
particularly stupid home-moaner. In most instances they're correct
because all the wiring in the area is and has been since the dawn of
time either conduit, EMT, or AC. However at no time did they suggest
that I test that a ground was actually available at the box. Very
dangerous advice.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

In article , wrote:

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.
Lowes had non-grounding duplex receptacles in ivory and white and HD
had them only in white. I really wanted brown to conform to all the
other switches and outlets in the house so, thinking of how much
better the "real" electrical suppliers are according to the
"professionals" on this group, I set out to find what I needed.

snip amusing but lengthy tale of woe

Is there a Menards store in your area? (Big box chain similar to Lowes & HD,
but not as widespread.) They typically have a *much* better selection of
offbeat electrical items.

Try a different hardware store, too. Got a Do-It-Best or Tru-Value nearby? I'm
pretty sure I can lay my hands on a brown two-pin duplex receptacle here
without any trouble, and I can send you one at cost (plus shipping). If you're
interested, my real email address is in my sig below.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)

It's time to throw all their damned tea in the harbor again.

Only one of those liberals that are ruining the country (lol) would waste so
much time running around looking for an obsolete plug, when you've got the
world at your fingertips. Try he
http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p138772...ver?sourceid=3







wrote in message
...
Refer to the thread entitled "How to upgrade outlets and switches"
wherein the OP seeks to replace some incorrectly-installed grounding
receptacles with either non-grounding type or GFCI's. I also had a
similar problem but with only one outlet. For some reason the ground,
normally supplied by the AC cable, was missing even though a grounding
duplex outlet had been installed. IOW using the standard neon light
tester I could not get a circuit between hot (black) and ground on the
outlet, nor between hot and the metal box. I suspect that the cable
was not properly clamped to the box there or at the previous box but
since this is an infrequently used outlet I wasn't planning to pull
the cable to investigate. All other boxes on the same circuit had
ground. The box was far too shallow to install a GFCI so I decided to
put in a non-grounding duplex outlet. Then the problems began.

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.
Lowes had non-grounding duplex receptacles in ivory and white and HD
had them only in white. I really wanted brown to conform to all the
other switches and outlets in the house so, thinking of how much
better the "real" electrical suppliers are according to the
"professionals" on this group, I set out to find what I needed.

First I tried the "real" hardware store where everyone is treated as a
shoplifter. You not only can't browse because such an activity would
take up the expensive conditioned air of the store but everything that
could be physically lifted is kept under lock and key. The owner,
taking time out from complaining about the government with his
layabout cronies deigned to acknowledge my presence with "Yeah?"
typical of such establishments. I ask for a non-grounding duplex
receptacle in brown. He grunts and disappears into the back. Several
hours later--it seemed like that but was probably only ten or so
minutes -- he reappeared and tossed a grounding receptacle on the
counter.

"Er no," say I, "That's a grounding receptacle. The non-grounding type
has only two pins." Mind you, give him his due: He did get the color
right.

"That's all I have," says he, returning to his debate about how the
liberals are ruining the country.

OK, let's move on. My son happens to work for a large commercial
electrician; the type that wires up large buildings and factories.
He's always offering to help me with any electrical problem and he is
on a first name basis with the counter jockeys at (supposedly) the
largest electrical wholesaler in the region. So I explain what I want
and even give him the ivory version I purchased from Lowes.

According to him his encounter with the electrical supplier was far
more cordial than mine was with the hardware guy but still resulted in
a look of amazement at the receptacle and a statement that they
couldn't sell him one because "it's illegal". Although he pointed out
that it's for him personally and not to install on any commercial job
they were adamant.

He continued looking at some of his hardware contacts and in the
meantime I checked that a brown one actually exists. It does. Leviton
list it as part #223.

So off I go to my more residential-related electrical supplier and
after patiently waiting my turn behind half-a-dozen electricians all
discussing how the liberals have ruined the country, the counter
jockey finally gave me the standard, "Yeah?" I proceeded to explain
what I wanted and his reaction was, "You need a time machine."

Much merriment among the electricians at this witticism. I then point
out that it's currently made and is shown in Leviton's catalog as part
#223. Amazingly they had actually heard of Leviton (I'm being
sarcastic). However their reaction was to tell me that I didn't need
the non-grounding type because any receptacle would be automatically
grounded when I screwed it into the box. The "professional"
electricians nod gravely, thinking no doubt that this is a
particularly stupid home-moaner. In most instances they're correct
because all the wiring in the area is and has been since the dawn of
time either conduit, EMT, or AC. However at no time did they suggest
that I test that a ground was actually available at the box. Very
dangerous advice.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

wrote:

Snip

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.

After the above statement, I cannot take anything else you say
seriously. This has to be a joke.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

So you ultimately had the same luck with all the stores, but
you blame the real electrical suppliers for being inept.
Interesting.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

wrote:

snipped the tales of merchants with strong smells of stupidity in their
establishments.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.



Don't stop there. Visit a hobby store that caters to model railroad
buffs and get a tiny bottle of dark brown paint. Nobody but you and G-d
will know what you did. G

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Only one of those liberals that are ruining the country (lol) would waste so
much time running around looking for an obsolete plug, when you've got the
world at your fingertips. Try he

http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p138772...ver?sourceid=3

At $2.36 plus, I presume, shipping. The ivory one from Lowes was
$1.40, no shipping required. Notice also on the same web page the
ivory (I think) version for the super-duper low price of $7.84!
Probably plus shipping too.

(Doug Miller) wrote:

In article , wrote:

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.
Lowes had non-grounding duplex receptacles in ivory and white and HD
had them only in white. I really wanted brown to conform to all the
other switches and outlets in the house so, thinking of how much
better the "real" electrical suppliers are according to the
"professionals" on this group, I set out to find what I needed.

snip amusing but lengthy tale of woe

Is there a Menards store in your area? (Big box chain similar to Lowes & HD,
but not as widespread.) They typically have a *much* better selection of
offbeat electrical items.

'Fraid not.

Try a different hardware store, too. Got a Do-It-Best or Tru-Value nearby?

The hardware store I mentioned is a Tru-value.

I'm
pretty sure I can lay my hands on a brown two-pin duplex receptacle here
without any trouble, and I can send you one at cost (plus shipping). If you're
interested, my real email address is in my sig below.

I left out that I also tried another three or four hardware stores and
another electrical supply store with similar results. This BTW is NYC
and while we no doubt have a much greater selection of designer
clothes, Broadway level plays, expensive restaurants, and medical
suppliers than the rest of the country but when it comes to the
residential construction business we rank right up (down?) there with
the third world.

Thanks for the offer but I'll keep with the ivory one now that it's
in.

Robert Allison wrote:

wrote:

Naturally I checked the most competent suppliers (Lowes and HD) first.

After the above statement, I cannot take anything else you say
seriously. This has to be a joke.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

So you ultimately had the same luck with all the stores, but
you blame the real electrical suppliers for being inept.
Interesting.

Ah no! Lowes and HD both had the receptacles but not in the desired
color. The real electrical suppliers didn't have the receptacles in
any color. Moreover, I don't expect the big box stores to have slow
moving items any more than I expect the A&P to have boutique cheese.
However I'm told repeatedly (in this NG and I agree that there's some
logic to it) how much better stocked the "real" electrical suppliers
are. They weren't. Plus they gave erroneous and dangerous advice. I
don't expect nor do I ask for any advice from the big box stores.

Jeff Wisnia wrote:

wrote:

snipped the tales of merchants with strong smells of stupidity in their
establishments.

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

Don't stop there. Visit a hobby store that caters to model railroad
buffs and get a tiny bottle of dark brown paint. Nobody but you and G-d
will know what you did. G

I could also use a brown grounding receptacle and fill the ground pin
with (brown) epoxy.

wrote:

Jeff Wisnia wrote:


wrote:


snipped the tales of merchants with strong smells of stupidity in their
establishments.


I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.


Don't stop there. Visit a hobby store that caters to model railroad
buffs and get a tiny bottle of dark brown paint. Nobody but you and G-d
will know what you did. G


I could also use a brown grounding receptacle and fill the ground pin
with (brown) epoxy.



Nah, that would fail a quick glance test. That one's blade slots would
be noticably high or low relative to the receptacle's "faces". G


Knowledge of correct slot location is very important 'yknow:


A receptacle changer from Brighton,
Once told his best girl, "You're a tight one."
She said, "pon my soul,
You're in the wrong hole.
But there's plenty of room in the right one."

Jeff

--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat '57 EE)
"Life is like a sewer -- what you get out of it depends on what you put
into it."

wrote:

I gave up and installed the ivory receptacle from Lowes.

The big box stores DO have spray paint.

In article , wrote:
(Doug Miller) wrote:

Is there a Menards store in your area? (Big box chain similar to Lowes & HD,
but not as widespread.) They typically have a *much* better selection of
offbeat electrical items.

'Fraid not.

Too bad -- I was at Menards earlier today, and they have 'em. $1.29 each.

--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek-at-milmac-dot-com)

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On Tue, 16 May 2006 15:03:56 GMT, wrote:

"RBM" rbm2(remove wrote:

Only one of those liberals that are ruining the country (lol) would waste so
much time running around looking for an obsolete plug, when you've got the
world at your fingertips. Try he

http://www.shop.com/op/aprod-p138772...ver?sourceid=3

At $2.36 plus, I presume, shipping. The ivory one from Lowes was
$1.40, no shipping required. Notice also on the same web page the
ivory (I think) version for the super-duper low price of $7.84!
Probably plus shipping too.


Was the Lowe's one carded?

BTW...did you check to make sure the duplex isn't cross-wired? Way
back then, color seldom made a difference.


Have a nice one...

Trent©

Follow Joan Rivers' example --- get pre-embalmed!