There is heavy lime buildup in the water trap of my toilet bowl. Does
anyone know the chemistry?

The toilet has a four gallon flush tank and I am reluctant to pull a
flush for a simple pee. My solution is to fill a one gallon bucket
with water and flush that. There will be a trace of yellow urine
remaining but it is dilute enough not to smell or look gross. I am
the only occupant so toilet traffic isn't that heavy. The trouble of
course is that after about six months the lime buildup is bad enough
that I have to use a teaspoon (curved surface) to scrape off the lime,
followed by steel wool and a scouring pad. What is there in diluted
urine that will cause the lime to to precipitate out of solution and
stick to the porcelain?

Probably not in urine, which is usually slightly acidic, but in the
water you flush with, there's an abundance of minerals, base in pH. I
appreciate your saving water by using a bucket. Tom

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 09:59:33 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:



There is heavy lime buildup in the water trap of my toilet bowl. Does
anyone know the chemistry?

The toilet has a four gallon flush tank and I am reluctant to pull a
flush for a simple pee. My solution is to fill a one gallon bucket
with water and flush that. There will be a trace of yellow urine
remaining but it is dilute enough not to smell or look gross. I am
the only occupant so toilet traffic isn't that heavy. The trouble of
course is that after about six months the lime buildup is bad enough
that I have to use a teaspoon (curved surface) to scrape off the lime,
followed by steel wool and a scouring pad. What is there in diluted
urine that will cause the lime to to precipitate out of solution and
stick to the porcelain?

Clearly you should just pee in the sink. Then you could "flush"
with a mere pint of water.

On 10 Mar 2006 07:46:57 -0800, "tom" wrote:

Probably not in urine, which is usually slightly acidic, but in the
water you flush with, there's an abundance of minerals, base in pH. I
appreciate your saving water by using a bucket. Tom

I have a theoretical problem in that the toilet bowl contains almost
pure tap water, the same stuff in the pipes. If the water in the bowl
can cause lime to precipitate out shouldn't the same process happen
inside the pipes and block them eventually? My house is 30 years old
and I haven't come across blocked pipes among any of my friends or in
the general household complaints in my city.

Toilet problems are not something we normally talk to friends on. But
I spoke to my sis and she says she has lime buildup in her toilet bowl
too. She says she uses the green stuff (often appears on TV ads,
quite pricey) and it works. I did try that some years ago on the lime
buildup on my bathtub and it didn't work. I also tried concentrated
HCl and conc. H2SO4. Neither worked and I will not use that nasty
stuff again as it will probably damage the plumbing and my health.

Its back to scraping for now.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:44:37 -0500, Goedjn wrote:

Clearly you should just pee in the sink. Then you could "flush"
with a mere pint of water.

Not practical. You still have to to wash off the spatter and that
requires extra water and effort. An ecologically friendly solution
will be ................nah. Too Rube Goldberg.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:07:22 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:

On 10 Mar 2006 07:46:57 -0800, "tom" wrote:

Probably not in urine, which is usually slightly acidic, but in the
water you flush with, there's an abundance of minerals, base in pH. I
appreciate your saving water by using a bucket. Tom

I have a theoretical problem in that the toilet bowl contains almost
pure tap water, the same stuff in the pipes. If the water in the bowl
can cause lime to precipitate out shouldn't the same process happen
inside the pipes and block them eventually? My house is 30 years old
and I haven't come across blocked pipes among any of my friends or in
the general household complaints in my city.

Toilet problems are not something we normally talk to friends on. But
I spoke to my sis and she says she has lime buildup in her toilet bowl
too. She says she uses the green stuff (often appears on TV ads,
quite pricey) and it works. I did try that some years ago on the lime
buildup on my bathtub and it didn't work. I also tried concentrated
HCl and conc. H2SO4. Neither worked and I will not use that nasty
stuff again as it will probably damage the plumbing and my health.

Its back to scraping for now.

Try vinegar. Let it sit overnight.
Why do you think the build-up is lime?

What happens if you dip a half-gallon
or so of water out of the toilet tank and
boil it dry?

If you dip a wire into the bowl so it
brushes the bottom, can you detect a
voltage between there and a nearby ground?

How about between the supply pipes and
ground?

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 19:16:58 GMT, PaPaPeng wrote:

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:44:37 -0500, Goedjn wrote:

Clearly you should just pee in the sink. Then you could "flush"
with a mere pint of water.

Not practical. You still have to to wash off the spatter and that
requires extra water and effort. An ecologically friendly solution
will be ................nah. Too Rube Goldberg.

Washing machine standpipe, then.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 12:44:37 -0500, Goedjn wrote:

Clearly you should just pee in the sink. Then you could "flush"
with a mere pint of water.


Actually you just revived an idea I had for a small wall mount
stand-up urinal in the home similar to the urinals in the Men's public
restrooms. A more decorative and discreet design for the home of
course. The advantages are too obvious to need further elaboration.
If women can have their bidet we men should have our special pee spot
too and save the environment in the bargain.

Quick simple cheap/

Muriatic acid/ Use well ventilated and wear glasses.


put a funnel in the dip tube pour half there and the other half in the
bowl, wait 15 minutes and flush repeatedly/

brown goo will come out of rim holes and everywhere. toilets flush much
better

4 bucks costs minimum, just no splashing

You have hard water, the mildest way to disolve it is pour in a gallon
of vinegar overnight, stronger are products like Lime Away or CLR
strongest is muriatic acid but fumes are bad and you will etch the
porcelin. A water softener will fix it, its not you.

On Fri, 10 Mar 2006 16:15:49 -0600, (m Ransley)
wrote:

You have hard water, the mildest way to disolve it is pour in a gallon
of vinegar overnight, stronger are products like Lime Away or CLR
strongest is muriatic acid but fumes are bad and you will etch the
porcelin. A water softener will fix it, its not you.


I have already tried all the chemicals including the expensive stuff.
Didn't work. My suspicion is that the lime is mainly sulphates and
chlorides of calcium with a good dose of magnesium. Acids should
cause carbonates to fizz. There is no fizz.

On 10 Mar 2006 13:59:12 -0800, "tom" wrote:

Do you find that the build-up occurs
at the waterline, or on the entire bowl? Tom


Just where there is standing water as in the bottom of the bowl chute.

The lime may be too hard for the acids to attack visibly.

muriatric acid is cheap and effective at most you lose 4 bucks...

justr let it sit 15 minutes not all day so you dont damage the
porcelin.

soft water in this today wouldnt remove a lifetime of build up

On 10 Mar 2006 17:40:11 -0800, "
wrote:

muriatric acid is cheap and effective at most you lose 4 bucks...


Muriatic acid is concentrated HCl. Already tried that. Didn't work.
Also burned several small holes in my clothing. I wouldn't bring that
stuff anywhere inside the house again. The fumes would react with the
copper plumbing for example. Also I can't buy this stuff at the
hardware store anymore. Its classified as a harzardous substance. I
have other sources for strong acids. I don't have any call to get any
after experiments didn't clear the lime build-up. As for another
comment on a lifetime build-up of lime, I have to do this lime
scraping removal two or three times a year.

PaPaPeng wrote:
On 10 Mar 2006 17:40:11 -0800, "
wrote:


muriatric acid is cheap and effective at most you lose 4 bucks...



Muriatic acid is concentrated HCl. Already tried that. Didn't work.
Also burned several small holes in my clothing. I wouldn't bring that
stuff anywhere inside the house again. The fumes would react with the
copper plumbing for example. Also I can't buy this stuff at the
hardware store anymore. Its classified as a harzardous substance. I
have other sources for strong acids. I don't have any call to get any
after experiments didn't clear the lime build-up. As for another
comment on a lifetime build-up of lime, I have to do this lime
scraping removal two or three times a year.


Muriatic acid is still being sold where I live. I use it to clean the DE
pool filter, and it can be dumped directly into the pool to lower the
PH. Go to any pool and spa store to get some if the hardware store
doesn't carry it.

--
Bill
In Hamptonburgh, NY

muriatic acid is one of the few acids availble to regular people. its a
hazard like everything else if misused. most drain cleaners are dilute
forms of this.

you must be careful and not splash it on clothes or anything else.

I opened window, unscrewed lid, took deep breathe poured carefully and
left immediately shutting door. 15 minutes later I reentered, flushed
once and left, although the odor was largely gone by that time.

looks like the original poster is going to be doing lots of physical
work to clean hios toilet.

incidently I too tried lime away and other less volatile liquids that
were acid based. they did NOTHING! So I did muriatic acid, figured it
was that or new toilet.

the other stuff didnt react at all to the lime, whereas the acid
literally dissolved it, thanks to its being stronger

Bidets are not just for women. Women seem to understand the need to be
truly clean.

On Sun, 12 Mar 2006 21:18:26 GMT, €“ Colonel €“
wrote:


What is there in diluted
urine that will cause the lime to to precipitate out of solution and
stick to the porcelain?

Ammonia. Raises the pH, thus the precipitate.


Sounds right. I think I have a possible solution and that is to
squirt a little dishwasher soap into the standing water. That should
keep the precipitate in soultion or in suspension until the next
flush.