The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains is
our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up to
103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?

Bryan wrote:
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're
starting to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of
our big drains is our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the
tub each day of the week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the
hot tub ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned
it up to 103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the
tub each evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day
as I would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub
ready to go while keeping the cost of heating down?

Lowering the temperature will reduce the cost, at least some. Lets say
you keep it set at 103º for 20 hours a day and at 100º for four hours.
Further lets say it takes one hour to cool or reheat. The cost of cooling
and reheating will be a close offset (actually it will benefit you a
little.) During the remaining 18 hours you will be loosing less heat less
fast at 100º then at 103º and that will be all savings. It does not cost
more to heat than you saved when you were not heating as it cooled.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Bryan wrote:

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

A few evacuated tube solar collectors and a high temp heat store...

Nick

"Bryan" wrote in message
et...
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains
is our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up
to 103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?




I don't own one, so I've obviously never experimented with temps. Does it
need to be at 103 degrees? If you dropped it to 98, would it still be
fabulous, or just kinda OK?

too cool no good

Is it physically outside? Its best kept indoors and either way you can
cover it with more insulation which will save you more than chillin
it.....

Its great your using it a lot, many are bought and drained after
awhile, for a wide variety of reasons. its like exercise machines, well
maybe not quite that bad but still not good

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:14:55 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains is
our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up to
103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?

My first comment is that 103F is too hot. It doesn't need to be more
than 100F for a pleasant soak. Regardless, here is how it comes out
for us. We have a 350-gallon Jacuzzi brand tub. The heater is 1,500
watts. We are also on a timed meter which is available at our power
company. Power is 12-cents/KW hour during prime time (9:00 A.M. to
9:00 P.M. weekdays) and 4-cents/KW hour the rest of the time.

Because we don't use the hot tub every day, we run our filter cycle
only one hour twice a day. Normally, it would be two hours twice a
day. We run the filter/heater at 8:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. each day to
keep in the 4-cents/KW hour window. So it takes 12-cents of
electricity per day during the filter cycles (assuming the heater has
to run the entire time) and let's say another 10-cents per day to keep
it at 100F while being used. That comes out to $6.60 cents per month
worst case. Our nighttime temperatures have been running mostly in
the 20's all winter. A few mornings in the teens.

"Doug Kanter" wrote in message
news

"Bryan" wrote in message
et...
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're
starting to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our
big drains is our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub
each day of the week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up
to 103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready
to go while keeping the cost of heating down?




I don't own one, so I've obviously never experimented with temps. Does it
need to be at 103 degrees? If you dropped it to 98, would it still be
fabulous, or just kinda OK?

Not even OK. 104 would be better than 103, but my wife and kids like 103.

wrote in message
oups.com...
too cool no good

Is it physically outside? Its best kept indoors and either way you can
cover it with more insulation which will save you more than chillin
it.....

Its great your using it a lot, many are bought and drained after
awhile, for a wide variety of reasons. its like exercise machines, well
maybe not quite that bad but still not good


It's outside next to the deck. It has an insulated cover on it.

I was worried about it not being used after the novelty wore off, but my
worries proved unfounded. It gets used between sunset and bedtime on a
regular basis and I use it in the middle of the night whenever insomnia
rears it's ugly head. Daytime use is rare except when my daughter has
friends over.

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:14:55 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains
is
our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up
to
103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?

My first comment is that 103F is too hot. It doesn't need to be more
than 100F for a pleasant soak. Regardless, here is how it comes out
for us. We have a 350-gallon Jacuzzi brand tub. The heater is 1,500
watts. We are also on a timed meter which is available at our power
company. Power is 12-cents/KW hour during prime time (9:00 A.M. to
9:00 P.M. weekdays) and 4-cents/KW hour the rest of the time.

Because we don't use the hot tub every day, we run our filter cycle
only one hour twice a day. Normally, it would be two hours twice a
day. We run the filter/heater at 8:00 A.M. and 9:00 P.M. each day to
keep in the 4-cents/KW hour window. So it takes 12-cents of
electricity per day during the filter cycles (assuming the heater has
to run the entire time) and let's say another 10-cents per day to keep
it at 100F while being used. That comes out to $6.60 cents per month
worst case. Our nighttime temperatures have been running mostly in
the 20's all winter. A few mornings in the teens.

I've tried 102, 101, and 100. It's not unpleasant, but, for me, 104 is the
magic number, and for my family 103 is the magic number.

I'll drop my filter frequency to the greatest time interval available.
I'll look into a timer. That would be much easier than remembering to turn
down the temp each morning and to turn it up each afternoon.

google has lots of stuff on this at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ot+tub&spell=1

On 6 Mar 2006 07:55:36 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

google has lots of stuff on this at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ot+tub&spell=1


The Solar Option has been mentioned. If you can rig a way to use gas
to preheat the water, you will probably find that less expensive than
electricity.

One hundred years ago in Japan they used wood heaters to heat their
bathwater. It was a good idea then and it can be an economical choice
today. Several wood stove manufactuers ofter a hot-water heating
option.

Indoors is better than outdoors for a hot tub location. With an
indoor tub, all the waste heat will at least contribute something to
heating your house in the winter. The heat loss from the outdoor
tubs goes straight into the air.

beachcomber

Beachcomber wrote:
On 6 Mar 2006 07:55:36 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

google has lots of stuff on this at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ot+tub&spell=1


The Solar Option has been mentioned. If you can rig a way to use gas
to preheat the water, you will probably find that less expensive than
electricity.

One hundred years ago in Japan they used wood heaters to heat their
bathwater. It was a good idea then and it can be an economical choice
today. Several wood stove manufactuers ofter a hot-water heating
option.

Indoors is better than outdoors for a hot tub location. With an
indoor tub, all the waste heat will at least contribute something to
heating your house in the winter. The heat loss from the outdoor
tubs goes straight into the air.

beachcomber


Inside is a lot better primarily because the amount of heat needing to
go in it is a fraction of what it is outside. If it's 20 degrees
outside with it set at 104 you have an 84 degree delta. Inside, at 70,
the delta drops to 50. That's about 40% less. Having it inside
isn't much of a benefit for most as far as having the heat go into the
house instead of outside. During heating season this is a plus, but
during cooling, it switches to a negative. Overall, it's probably a
small plus.


I would definitely set the unit on a timer, so the temp gets setback
during hours when it's not gonna be used, then raised prior to periods
when use can be expected. I have one outside here in NJ and I keep it
lowered to around 60 during the coldest winter months, cause I only use
it a couple times a week. Prior to using it, I raise the temp back up
far enough in advance. Setting it back is exactly like lowering the
thermostat in the house at night.

I would make sure it's as well insulated as possible. Is the cover in
good shape, not water logged, and has no gaps? Is the spa located so
that its as sheltered as possible?

BTW, I agree that anything below about 104 is less desirable. I like
mine more like 106. And fiddling with a few degrees at the expense of
enjoying it the way you like is not gonna make much difference.
Again, if the delta is 104-20, thats 84. If you set it at 100, thats
80, which is less than a 5% difference in energy use. I guess you
could have the timer take it to 100 prior to use, then turn it up the
rest of the way manually, just prior to use.

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:14:55 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line.

That *IS* why they call it luxury.

Bryan wrote:
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're
starting to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of
our big drains is our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the
tub each day of the week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the
hot tub ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned
it up to 103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the
tub each evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day
as I would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub
ready to go while keeping the cost of heating down?

I just thought of something. What temperature is recommended for
safety? I understand that water temperatures play a big role in keeping the
water sanitary.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:27:53 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

I just thought of something. What temperature is recommended for
safety? I understand that water temperatures play a big role in keeping the
water sanitary.

Everything I have read says that 15-minutes at 104F is the maximum
exposure for a person in good health. Someone who is pregnant, has
diabetes or heart problems should not be exposed to even that much.
The problem, apparently, is that when you get the body to that high a
temperature, the body loses its ability to shed heat. You can find a
lot of information on the large spa equipment websites.

"Bryan" wrote in message
et...
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains
is
our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up
to
103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?




I am curious as to what sort of heating system your hot tub uses? I have
connected power over the years for two types that use electricity for
heating. One uses a 20 amp 120 volt circuit and heats the water only when
the jets are not in use. This unit takes a longer time to heat the water
from cold. The other type uses a 40 or 50 amp 220 volt line and heats the
water up much quicker than the previous one that I mentioned. The heater
can work with the jets going. Of course this type also consumes
considerably more power. Or do you have a gas heater?

If you have the 220 volt model, I don't think it would be necessary to run
the heater 24/7 although you may need to run the pump frequently for
filtration purposes. You could try calling the manufacturer or distributor
to ask them how long it takes for the water to get to your ideal
temperature.

A couple of manufacturers used to make timers just for hot tubs, but I
haven't seen any lately. I think solid state controls are taking over. Try
doing a search for pool or hot tub time clocks. You could also check
www.grainger.com or contact an electrical supply house. Take a look at
www.tork.com and look up models 1100D and 1100FM under Special Purpose
Controls.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv

On 6 Mar 2006 09:00:27 -0800, wrote:


Beachcomber wrote:
On 6 Mar 2006 07:55:36 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

google has lots of stuff on this at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ot+tub&spell=1


The Solar Option has been mentioned. If you can rig a way to use gas
to preheat the water, you will probably find that less expensive than
electricity.

One hundred years ago in Japan they used wood heaters to heat their
bathwater. It was a good idea then and it can be an economical choice
today. Several wood stove manufactuers ofter a hot-water heating
option.

Indoors is better than outdoors for a hot tub location. With an
indoor tub, all the waste heat will at least contribute something to
heating your house in the winter. The heat loss from the outdoor
tubs goes straight into the air.

beachcomber


Inside is a lot better primarily because the amount of heat needing to
go in it is a fraction of what it is outside. If it's 20 degrees
outside with it set at 104 you have an 84 degree delta. Inside, at 70,
the delta drops to 50. That's about 40% less. Having it inside
isn't much of a benefit for most as far as having the heat go into the
house instead of outside. During heating season this is a plus, but
during cooling, it switches to a negative. Overall, it's probably a
small plus.


I would definitely set the unit on a timer, so the temp gets setback
during hours when it's not gonna be used, then raised prior to periods
when use can be expected. I have one outside here in NJ and I keep it
lowered to around 60 during the coldest winter months, cause I only use
it a couple times a week. Prior to using it, I raise the temp back up
far enough in advance. Setting it back is exactly like lowering the
thermostat in the house at night.

I would make sure it's as well insulated as possible. Is the cover in
good shape, not water logged, and has no gaps? Is the spa located so
that its as sheltered as possible?

BTW, I agree that anything below about 104 is less desirable. I like
mine more like 106. And fiddling with a few degrees at the expense of
enjoying it the way you like is not gonna make much difference.
Again, if the delta is 104-20, thats 84. If you set it at 100, thats
80, which is less than a 5% difference in energy use. I guess you
could have the timer take it to 100 prior to use, then turn it up the
rest of the way manually, just prior to use.

I always amazes me that people spend a fortune insulating their homes
to save energy, then they get these things and put them outside in
freezing weather and wonder why their electric bill is beyond belief.

The OP needs to build a structure around it, attached to the house.
There is no other way to cut the cost by anything significant, when
the thing is outdoors in winter. Insulate the structure well, and you
will see big savings in power usage. For summer use, make some of the
walls of this structure removable, maybe even part of the roof.

Myself, I'll stick to a hot bath in my bathtub !!!

Dick wrote:
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 19:27:53 GMT, "Joseph Meehan"
wrote:

I just thought of something. What temperature is recommended for
safety? I understand that water temperatures play a big role in
keeping the water sanitary.

Everything I have read says that 15-minutes at 104F is the maximum
exposure for a person in good health. Someone who is pregnant, has
diabetes or heart problems should not be exposed to even that much.
The problem, apparently, is that when you get the body to that high a
temperature, the body loses its ability to shed heat. You can find a
lot of information on the large spa equipment websites.

I was thinking of microbe growth.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

Insulate it better. There is a spray for the underside of the tub
itself. Another cover for the tip is in order. Then keep it at 95, find
out how long it takes to go from 95 to 103 and educate everyone on the
fact they will have to turn it up ahead of time (and back down). The
exact numbers here are hypothetical, but the cooler you keep it the
more energy you will save.

"Beachcomber" wrote in message
...
On 6 Mar 2006 07:55:36 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

Indoors is better than outdoors for a hot tub location. With an
indoor tub, all the waste heat will at least contribute something to
heating your house in the winter. The heat loss from the outdoor
tubs goes straight into the air.

beachcomber


Can't argue with anything you said, but sitting outdoors under the stars
while soaking in a 103 degree pool of water is what it's all about for us.
Indoors just wouldn't be the same.

"buffalobill" wrote in message
oups.com...
google has lots of stuff on this at:
http://www.google.com/search?num=100...ot+tub&spell=1


Thanks, will take a look. Maybe I can insulate it better than it is.

wrote in message
ups.com...

Beachcomber wrote:


Inside is a lot better primarily because the amount of heat needing to
go in it is a fraction of what it is outside. If it's 20 degrees
outside with it set at 104 you have an 84 degree delta. Inside, at 70,
the delta drops to 50. That's about 40% less. Having it inside
isn't much of a benefit for most as far as having the heat go into the
house instead of outside. During heating season this is a plus, but
during cooling, it switches to a negative. Overall, it's probably a
small plus.


I would definitely set the unit on a timer, so the temp gets setback
during hours when it's not gonna be used, then raised prior to periods
when use can be expected. I have one outside here in NJ and I keep it
lowered to around 60 during the coldest winter months, cause I only use
it a couple times a week. Prior to using it, I raise the temp back up
far enough in advance. Setting it back is exactly like lowering the
thermostat in the house at night.

I would make sure it's as well insulated as possible. Is the cover in
good shape, not water logged, and has no gaps? Is the spa located so
that its as sheltered as possible?

BTW, I agree that anything below about 104 is less desirable. I like
mine more like 106. And fiddling with a few degrees at the expense of
enjoying it the way you like is not gonna make much difference.
Again, if the delta is 104-20, thats 84. If you set it at 100, thats
80, which is less than a 5% difference in energy use. I guess you
could have the timer take it to 100 prior to use, then turn it up the
rest of the way manually, just prior to use.


Insulating and temperature drop during daytime is going to be an easy
experiment and a timer (depending on cost) will be another bonus.

wrote in message
...
On 6 Mar 2006 09:00:27 -0800, wrote:


I always amazes me that people spend a fortune insulating their homes
to save energy, then they get these things and put them outside in
freezing weather and wonder why their electric bill is beyond belief.

The OP needs to build a structure around it, attached to the house.
There is no other way to cut the cost by anything significant, when
the thing is outdoors in winter. Insulate the structure well, and you
will see big savings in power usage. For summer use, make some of the
walls of this structure removable, maybe even part of the roof.

Myself, I'll stick to a hot bath in my bathtub !!!

I was thinking of building a 2 sided privacy lattice around the tub which
might cut down on wind, but it's pretty well protected by the house and
fence and deck.
The electric bill wasn't a problem when we installed the unit; but after the
Enron/California debacle the price of electricity has become a major
household factor.

"Goedjn" wrote in message
...
On Mon, 06 Mar 2006 12:14:55 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line.

That *IS* why they call it luxury.



Well, I am the one who acknowledged that it's a luxury. One we enjoy very
much, but the cost of heating our home and our hot tub has become a burden
to our non-increasing revenue.

"Joseph Meehan" wrote in message
.. .
Bryan wrote:

I just thought of something. What temperature is recommended for
safety? I understand that water temperatures play a big role in keeping
the water sanitary.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit


Without altering the system, in California, the tubs are limited to 104. It
would take some cheating to break that factory barrier.

"John Grabowski" wrote in message
...

"Bryan" wrote in message
et...
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're
starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains
is
our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub
ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
Would it make any difference in cost if I kept it at 100 and turned it up
to
103 each afternoon in time for my wife and kids to enjoy the tub each
evening and turned it back to 100 each morning?
It seems like I would be spending as much reheating the tub each day as I
would to keep it at 103 24/7.

What do think and what strategies do you use to keep your hot tub ready
to
go while keeping the cost of heating down?




I am curious as to what sort of heating system your hot tub uses? I have
connected power over the years for two types that use electricity for
heating. One uses a 20 amp 120 volt circuit and heats the water only when
the jets are not in use. This unit takes a longer time to heat the water
from cold. The other type uses a 40 or 50 amp 220 volt line and heats the
water up much quicker than the previous one that I mentioned. The heater
can work with the jets going. Of course this type also consumes
considerably more power. Or do you have a gas heater?

If you have the 220 volt model, I don't think it would be necessary to run
the heater 24/7 although you may need to run the pump frequently for
filtration purposes. You could try calling the manufacturer or
distributor
to ask them how long it takes for the water to get to your ideal
temperature.

A couple of manufacturers used to make timers just for hot tubs, but I
haven't seen any lately. I think solid state controls are taking over.
Try
doing a search for pool or hot tub time clocks. You could also check
www.grainger.com or contact an electrical supply house. Take a look at
www.tork.com and look up models 1100D and 1100FM under Special Purpose
Controls.


John Grabowski
http://www.mrelectrician.tv


It uses the 50 amp 220 volt line.
It'll be a fun experiment to see how long it takes to go from 80 to 104 and
other permutations.
Thnaks for the timer tips.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Insulate it better. There is a spray for the underside of the tub
itself. Another cover for the tip is in order. Then keep it at 95, find
out how long it takes to go from 95 to 103 and educate everyone on the
fact they will have to turn it up ahead of time (and back down). The
exact numbers here are hypothetical, but the cooler you keep it the
more energy you will save.


Game plan:
Optimize insulation.
Turn down temp before work and turn it up after work. Find the lowest temp
that still allows a reasonable return to 103. Manual or timer.
Look into timers (will tend to forget manual resulting in frustration for
all).
Look into solar assistance.
Build 2 sided privacy lattice for privacy and to optimize wind barrier.
Reduce fast food consumption and use money to pay for heating.

Thanks to everyone with all the great ideas!

Bryan wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Insulate it better. There is a spray for the underside of the tub
itself. Another cover for the tip is in order. Then keep it at 95, find
out how long it takes to go from 95 to 103 and educate everyone on the
fact they will have to turn it up ahead of time (and back down). The
exact numbers here are hypothetical, but the cooler you keep it the
more energy you will save.


Game plan:
Optimize insulation.
Turn down temp before work and turn it up after work. Find the lowest temp
that still allows a reasonable return to 103. Manual or timer.
Look into timers (will tend to forget manual resulting in frustration for
all).
Look into solar assistance.
Build 2 sided privacy lattice for privacy and to optimize wind barrier.
Reduce fast food consumption and use money to pay for heating.

Thanks to everyone with all the great ideas!


Bryan-

You're right on target for your game plan.

I just moved from a house with an above ground spa (SoCal)

& I sure do miss it!

Soaking in the spa looking up at the stairs was very nice.
I thought I'd tire of it but I never did.

I used to turn the heater off when I was done with it for the night.
I would turn up again a few hours before I wanted to use it. I just
had to remember!

I don't remember ALL the details of the installation like heater power
(kW) but it was ~500 gallons (a deep 6 person, ~8x8 spa)

but I do remember if it wasn't cold outside (60F) the water never
really got cold (just not good & hot)

& if it was hot outside the spa would pretty much stay usable (103)
without turning the heater on.

If it was tempid (~90's) it would take ~2 or 3 hours to bring it up to
"good"

If yours is really 300 gallons then each kW of heater capacity will
bring your spa 1.4 degrees F per hour

I think mine was 5.5 kW & I had 500 gallons

so I could get ~ 5 degrees F per hour,

which was fine as long as I planned ahead (too lazy to do the timer)

but if I forgot..............no spa tonight ........or a tempid
soak


The closer to ambient temperature you let the spa temp fall, the more
electricity you'll save

If you've got a 3.3 kW heater you'll get about 5degs F per hour as
well.

So I would suggest you kill the heater at night when you got to bed.
The spa will probably "coast" long enough to do the midnight soak.
(night time loses are greater than daytime) & fire it up a few hours
(3 or 4) before you'll want it hot.

If you measure your water temp in the afternoon & you know when you
want it ready & you know your heater kW you can predict how soon you
need to turn it up based on heater kW

In a pinch I used to run both jet systems full speed to add to the heat
(maybe another 20% capacity)

cheers
Bob

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:44:09 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:


wrote in message
.. .
On 6 Mar 2006 09:00:27 -0800, wrote:


I always amazes me that people spend a fortune insulating their homes
to save energy, then they get these things and put them outside in
freezing weather and wonder why their electric bill is beyond belief.

The OP needs to build a structure around it, attached to the house.
There is no other way to cut the cost by anything significant, when
the thing is outdoors in winter. Insulate the structure well, and you
will see big savings in power usage. For summer use, make some of the
walls of this structure removable, maybe even part of the roof.

Myself, I'll stick to a hot bath in my bathtub !!!

I was thinking of building a 2 sided privacy lattice around the tub which
might cut down on wind, but it's pretty well protected by the house and
fence and deck.
The electric bill wasn't a problem when we installed the unit; but after the
Enron/California debacle the price of electricity has become a major
household factor.


One thing you can do right away, and it's not expensive. Buy a
thermal cover for your hot tub. These go under the insulated top
cover, and float on the water. A bit of a pain when you want to use
it, but saves a lot of heat that would otherwise escape. I have used
both the foam (red colored) and the type that looks like bubble wrap.
Both seem to work well, but I prefer the foam type.

Dick

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 02:44:09 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:
One thing you can do right away, and it's not expensive. Buy a
thermal cover for your hot tub. These go under the insulated top
cover, and float on the water. A bit of a pain when you want to use
it, but saves a lot of heat that would otherwise escape. I have used
both the foam (red colored) and the type that looks like bubble wrap.
Both seem to work well, but I prefer the foam type.

Dick

Thanks, I'll hit the spa store and pick one up tomorrow morning. Sounds
like a good idea.

"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bryan wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Insulate it better. There is a spray for the underside of the tub
itself. Another cover for the tip is in order. Then keep it at 95, find
out how long it takes to go from 95 to 103 and educate everyone on the
fact they will have to turn it up ahead of time (and back down). The
exact numbers here are hypothetical, but the cooler you keep it the
more energy you will save.


Game plan:
Optimize insulation.
Turn down temp before work and turn it up after work. Find the lowest
temp
that still allows a reasonable return to 103. Manual or timer.
Look into timers (will tend to forget manual resulting in frustration for
all).
Look into solar assistance.
Build 2 sided privacy lattice for privacy and to optimize wind barrier.
Reduce fast food consumption and use money to pay for heating.

Thanks to everyone with all the great ideas!


Bryan-

You're right on target for your game plan.

I just moved from a house with an above ground spa (SoCal)

& I sure do miss it!

Soaking in the spa looking up at the stairs was very nice.
I thought I'd tire of it but I never did.

I used to turn the heater off when I was done with it for the night.
I would turn up again a few hours before I wanted to use it. I just
had to remember!

I don't remember ALL the details of the installation like heater power
(kW) but it was ~500 gallons (a deep 6 person, ~8x8 spa)

but I do remember if it wasn't cold outside (60F) the water never
really got cold (just not good & hot)

& if it was hot outside the spa would pretty much stay usable (103)
without turning the heater on.

If it was tempid (~90's) it would take ~2 or 3 hours to bring it up to
"good"

If yours is really 300 gallons then each kW of heater capacity will
bring your spa 1.4 degrees F per hour

I think mine was 5.5 kW & I had 500 gallons

so I could get ~ 5 degrees F per hour,

which was fine as long as I planned ahead (too lazy to do the timer)

but if I forgot..............no spa tonight ........or a tempid
soak


The closer to ambient temperature you let the spa temp fall, the more
electricity you'll save

If you've got a 3.3 kW heater you'll get about 5degs F per hour as
well.

So I would suggest you kill the heater at night when you got to bed.
The spa will probably "coast" long enough to do the midnight soak.
(night time loses are greater than daytime) & fire it up a few hours
(3 or 4) before you'll want it hot.

If you measure your water temp in the afternoon & you know when you
want it ready & you know your heater kW you can predict how soon you
need to turn it up based on heater kW

In a pinch I used to run both jet systems full speed to add to the heat
(maybe another 20% capacity)

cheers
Bob


Great information. I'll test out the 5 d per hour hypothesis. It sounds
like our tubs are/were pretty much the same.
I always wonder, though, does reheating the tub daily cost more than just
maintaining the desired temp.

"Dick" LeadWinger wrote

One thing you can do right away, and it's not expensive. Buy a
thermal cover for your hot tub. These go under the insulated top
cover, and float on the water. A bit of a pain when you want to use
it, but saves a lot of heat that would otherwise escape. I have used
both the foam (red colored) and the type that looks like bubble wrap.
Both seem to work well, but I prefer the foam type.

Dick

One can see a lot by observing. I never knew such a thing existed. I think
I will get one soon, too.

You don't manufacture these things, do you? You are sure selling a lot of
them.

Steve

"Mys Terry" wrote in message
...
On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 06:23:46 GMT, "Bryan" wrote:

I always wonder, though, does reheating the tub daily cost more than just
maintaining the desired temp.


Think in terms of lower or higher AVERAGE temperature, and the answer
becomes
very obvious without even doing any math.



Well, you would think it's obvious, but if the heater is kicking on 18 times
for 10 minutes (total 180 minutes) to maintain a given temperature versus
running for 3 hours straight to come back to temperature, what's the
mathematical difference? What I'm missing here is some information about
how often and how long the heater kicks on throughout a given day to
maintain the desired temp; so for now my numbers are imaginary.

On Mon, 6 Mar 2006 22:30:53 -0800, "Steve B"
wrote:


"Dick" LeadWinger wrote

One thing you can do right away, and it's not expensive. Buy a
thermal cover for your hot tub. These go under the insulated top
cover, and float on the water. A bit of a pain when you want to use
it, but saves a lot of heat that would otherwise escape. I have used
both the foam (red colored) and the type that looks like bubble wrap.
Both seem to work well, but I prefer the foam type.

Dick

One can see a lot by observing. I never knew such a thing existed. I think
I will get one soon, too.

You don't manufacture these things, do you? You are sure selling a lot of
them.

Steve


I guess I should. :-) We started using the thermal blankets when we
lived in the panhandle of Idaho, and the temp could get down to 20 to
30 below 0F. Made a big difference in our propane use. That tub was
installed in a deck and used propane for heat. One thing about the
covers. They are just square when you get them. You have to cut to
fit your tub exactly. I start by cutting the maximum size in both
directions. Then I lay it on the water and cut out all the odd
shapes. The better job you do, the better the seal.

Dick

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:16:14 GMT, "Bryan"
wrote:

Well, you would think it's obvious, but if the heater is kicking on 18 times
for 10 minutes (total 180 minutes) to maintain a given temperature versus
running for 3 hours straight to come back to temperature, what's the
mathematical difference? What I'm missing here is some information about
how often and how long the heater kicks on throughout a given day to
maintain the desired temp; so for now my numbers are imaginary.


In our case, with the heater/filter running for two, one-hour cycles,
we only lose a degree or two between cycles. Doesn't take long to get
it back. I usually open the cover and turn on the pump, then go back
in the house to change. By the time I get back, it's pretty close to
temp. Even if it isn't, it will be shortly after getting in.

Dick

On Tue, 07 Mar 2006 13:53:11 GMT, Mys Terry
wrote:

Well, you would think it's obvious, but if the heater is kicking on 18 times
for 10 minutes (total 180 minutes) to maintain a given temperature versus
running for 3 hours straight to come back to temperature, what's the
mathematical difference? What I'm missing here is some information about
how often and how long the heater kicks on throughout a given day to
maintain the desired temp; so for now my numbers are imaginary.


As I said, the only concept you need to consider is the AVERAGE temp
maintained over time. It really IS that simple and obvious. If your
AVERAGE temp over time is lower, your heater will be running less.

What you are "imagining" happening with your heater is not what is
happening in reality.


Our Jacuzzi spa has an Economy setting in addition to the Standard
setting. In Economy, the heater only runs when the pump is on. I.E.
only during the filter cycles. When we get in it, and turn the pump
on, the heater runs as needed. The heater never runs other than those
two conditions. If we set it to Standard, the heater would run
throughout the day to maintain the set temperature.

Bryan wrote:
"BobK207" wrote in message
oups.com...

Bryan wrote:
wrote in message
oups.com...
Insulate it better. There is a spray for the underside of the tub
itself. Another cover for the tip is in order. Then keep it at 95, find
out how long it takes to go from 95 to 103 and educate everyone on the
fact they will have to turn it up ahead of time (and back down). The
exact numbers here are hypothetical, but the cooler you keep it the
more energy you will save.


Game plan:
Optimize insulation.
Turn down temp before work and turn it up after work. Find the lowest
temp
that still allows a reasonable return to 103. Manual or timer.
Look into timers (will tend to forget manual resulting in frustration for
all).
Look into solar assistance.
Build 2 sided privacy lattice for privacy and to optimize wind barrier.
Reduce fast food consumption and use money to pay for heating.

Thanks to everyone with all the great ideas!


Bryan-

You're right on target for your game plan.

I just moved from a house with an above ground spa (SoCal)

& I sure do miss it!

Soaking in the spa looking up at the stairs was very nice.
I thought I'd tire of it but I never did.

I used to turn the heater off when I was done with it for the night.
I would turn up again a few hours before I wanted to use it. I just
had to remember!

I don't remember ALL the details of the installation like heater power
(kW) but it was ~500 gallons (a deep 6 person, ~8x8 spa)

but I do remember if it wasn't cold outside (60F) the water never
really got cold (just not good & hot)

& if it was hot outside the spa would pretty much stay usable (103)
without turning the heater on.

If it was tempid (~90's) it would take ~2 or 3 hours to bring it up to
"good"

If yours is really 300 gallons then each kW of heater capacity will
bring your spa 1.4 degrees F per hour

I think mine was 5.5 kW & I had 500 gallons

so I could get ~ 5 degrees F per hour,

which was fine as long as I planned ahead (too lazy to do the timer)

but if I forgot..............no spa tonight ........or a tempid
soak


The closer to ambient temperature you let the spa temp fall, the more
electricity you'll save

If you've got a 3.3 kW heater you'll get about 5degs F per hour as
well.

So I would suggest you kill the heater at night when you got to bed.
The spa will probably "coast" long enough to do the midnight soak.
(night time loses are greater than daytime) & fire it up a few hours
(3 or 4) before you'll want it hot.

If you measure your water temp in the afternoon & you know when you
want it ready & you know your heater kW you can predict how soon you
need to turn it up based on heater kW

In a pinch I used to run both jet systems full speed to add to the heat
(maybe another 20% capacity)

cheers
Bob


Great information. I'll test out the 5 d per hour hypothesis. It sounds
like our tubs are/were pretty much the same.
I always wonder, though, does reheating the tub daily cost more than just
maintaining the desired temp.


lettingthe spa cool down & then reheating ALWAYS saves money because
the cooler the spa is, the less heat lost to the environment

In the extreme, if you let it get stone cold (~65F) for a week, you'll
save a weeks worth of heating. It will only take a day to bring it
back up. Turning the heater off saves money, costs "convenience"

cheers
Bob

Great information. I'll test out the 5 d per hour hypothesis. It sounds
like our tubs are/were pretty much the same.
I always wonder, though, does reheating the tub daily cost more than just
maintaining the desired temp.

Unless your energy cost varies by time, it's not possible for that
to occur. (We have this discussion about water heaters on
a regular basis).

I'd be skeptical that the thermal insulating blankets that you can
float on top of the water add much in the way of energy savings. The
spa should already have 3-4 inchs worth of insulation in the cover. I
find it hard to believe that one of these thin blankets that floats on
top of the water adds much in the way of energy savings, unless there
is something I'm missing about the way they are supposed to work.

I see people here claiming they do work, but I don't see how you would
ever know, since spa electric is bundled in with everything else.
Unless you put a meter on it and monitored it for many days with
similar weather/temps, you'd never know.

"Bryan" wrote in message
et...
The cost of luxury in our home is killing our bottom line. We're starting
to look at ways to cut our gas and electric costs. One of our big drains
is our hot tub. Between the 4 of us, someone uses the tub each day of the
week.

I'm wondering what the best plan of attack might be for keeping the hot
tub ready to go and bringing the cost down.

Right now it's set at 103 24/7.
snip

We set our hot tub at 85. It takes a couple hours to raise the temperature
to 102. I once figured it saved us at least a couple dollars per day.

g