We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house is 30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

never heard of such a thing.
Here we put the main clean-out in the basement right before it exits through
the foundation.
Typically the problem you describe is on the homeowner side of things;
usually in the front yard.
The town sewer is in the street and you tie into that.
I am not saying it is impossible for what roto-router said to be true, but
it sounds unlikely.

As for what the town said, I am shocked that not having a clean out in the
front yard is their "out".
What difference does it make if you use the one in basement or one a couple
feet downstream out in the yard?

I would like to know myself how you make out and what the rules are exactly.
Ask the town where exactly the clean-out needs to be.
Ask them if you dig it up to install clean-out and they find the problem to
be the city's problem will they reimburse you.

Sorry I can't be any help really.
BTW the 1400 does not sound way out of wack.



"Deuteros" wrote in message
reenews.net...
We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house is
30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

As for what the town said, I am shocked that not having a clean out in the
front yard is their "out".
What difference does it make if you use the one in basement or one a
couple feet downstream out in the yard?

Here in SoCal we have what we call 'property line clean-outs. Usually 18"
back from the side-walk. The City won't do anything without one. They don't
want to be liable for coming onto your property.. But if you have one, and
there are roots past it, this city will take care of replacing that section
of line. And if the City will do it for $1400, sounds right to me.

It's just a 'T' (more likely a 'Y' and a 45) installed in the lateral. Call
a licensed plumber for another estimate. There's some digging involved, and
maybe the plumber will let you do it. If it's too deep, it should be done
with a back hoe and someone experienced in working down in a ditch.

"Deuteros" wrote in message
reenews.net...
We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house is
30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

According to British Common Law, the municipality owns a 'road allowance'
which is 6 chains or 66'. Therefore the portion of drain 33' from the
middle of the road is town'ps respons to main'tn.
Common Law is the basis of NAmerican&Aussie Laws and applies just about
everywhere with the exception of Quebec and some parts of the Louisianna
purchase referred to as parishes.
Price is reasonable, given that trenches do cave in and kill many
pipelayers.
"Bob" wrote in message
...
It's just a 'T' (more likely a 'Y' and a 45) installed in the lateral.
Call
a licensed plumber for another estimate. There's some digging involved,
and
maybe the plumber will let you do it. If it's too deep, it should be done
with a back hoe and someone experienced in working down in a ditch.

"Deuteros" wrote in message
reenews.net...
We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house
is
30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

"Slim *******" wrote in message
.. .
According to British Common Law, the municipality owns a 'road allowance'
which is 6 chains or 66'. Therefore the portion of drain 33' from the
middle of the road is town'ps respons to main'tn.
Common Law is the basis of NAmerican&Aussie Laws and applies just about
everywhere with the exception of Quebec and some parts of the Louisianna
purchase referred to as parishes.
Price is reasonable, given that trenches do cave in and kill many
pipelayers.



Oh good grief.
What goofy DIY wannabe book did you read that in?
Road widths vary. Property lines vary. Utility easements vary. R.O.W.
easements vary. That said, homeowners can be responsible to either their
specific property line, the utility easement line, or the actual city main.
This is a jurisdictional mandate that will vary from city to city. There is
no "magic" measurement from the center of a road.
There is also no "standard" code that requires a cleanout at the property
line. But... any incorporated municipality is free to create their own
specific codes whether other areas do so or not.
As to the $1,400 price - If the line can be hand dug (less than 4' deep) -
it's too much for almost anywhere in the USA.
If it's 5' or deeper and/or requires excavation equipment - it is a fair
price.


Bob Wheatley

Deuteros wrote:

We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house is 30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

There's a slice and dice home repair roto-rooter style attachment from
available for rent from Home Depot that deals with the root thing fairly
cheap ~$75. Then you have to follow-up with a root-killer poison to
prevent the roots from growing again and it pretty much kills off all
ground-life in it's path to the ocean.

Normally, it's not effective because the drainwater/poison runs at the
bottom of the pipe and the roots come down from above, hence a big waste
of money as the roots grow downward from the top fairly quickly.
Flooding the drain will not work to reach the top roots with poison.
There isn't enough pressure to fill the drain without blocking the other
end and allowing the air out in order to allow the drainpipe to fill
with poison.

$1400. to get a ditchwitch and lay a new and absolutely clean
drainageway is a far more than reasonable price, and extremely
cost-effective in the long run. Expect $3000. at jobs end unless you
know the person. (Still a reasonable price in the long run).

Heavy equipment or hard labor and time. $1400 is real cheap for a major
recurrent problem. Brother's a plumber, dad's a gardener, other brother
runs heavy equipment. Run a new drain line.

*grin*

TheNIGHTCRAWLER
(Me? I run data transfer.)

TheNIGHTCRAWLER,

Ummm...I'm going to take a wild guess here. You're from the
"alt.home.repair" and not the plumbing newsgroup, aren't you?

Tell your lawyer, this is one silly ass wanabbee inspector who
is a brother in law to some uncle Joe needs to get his head out of his
ass.The city fixes it and that's the only law. He is *violating public
health.
Tree's on *city side are the city's problem not yours.
The clean out he is talking of is a new thing and is not needed in your
case. *Your sewer is grand fathered in. You do not upgrade as
codes change unless you are replacing old with new and its
over 50% of the work.

WTF does a yard clean out have to with roots ?

You a gawd damn yankee maybe ? That's it, you're a
damn yankee troublemaker there ain't you boy ?
You come down here with them fancy ideas.
Maybe you want a sidewalk in front of your house too ?


"Deuteros" wrote in message
reenews.net...
We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy
told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and they
would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city (Roswell,
Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that they can't do
anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our yard. Our house is
30
years old so I guess they didn't put them in back then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to charge
$1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar experience?

Red,

I agree with your outlook, but I know that individual municipalities
can make their own rules. Around here, even though the sidewalks belong
to the city, the landowner has to pay and maintain the stretch that
abuts their property.

Also, here in the Cincinnati area, the sewer belongs to the private
owner until it enters the main.

Also, I assume the yard CO allows the city to clean the sewer
without enterning a private domain.

Had a similar issue years ago with tree roots. Tried to snake it
myself and ended up getting the snake stuck about 40' out from the
house. No way to budge it. You never want to hear your plumber say
"backhoe"! $1900 later I had a brand new pvc line out to the street
with a cleanout on the front lawn. Main reason for the cleanout
outside was that since they had to dig they yard up anyway, if it ever
clogged again they would be able to snake it without messing up the
basement as much.

If the city won't fix it, I would go with the root poison (copper
sulfate I believe, every 6 months) and roto rooter on a preventive
maintenance schedule as the cheap option. If it becomes a constant
problem, look at the expensive fix.

TheNIGHTCRAWLER wrote in
:

Deuteros wrote:

We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and
they would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city
(Roswell, Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that
they can't do anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our
yard. Our house is 30 years old so I guess they didn't put them in back
then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to
charge $1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar
experience?

There's a slice and dice home repair roto-rooter style attachment from
available for rent from Home Depot that deals with the root thing fairly
cheap ~$75. Then you have to follow-up with a root-killer poison to
prevent the roots from growing again and it pretty much kills off all
ground-life in it's path to the ocean.

Normally, it's not effective because the drainwater/poison runs at the
bottom of the pipe and the roots come down from above, hence a big waste
of money as the roots grow downward from the top fairly quickly.
Flooding the drain will not work to reach the top roots with poison.
There isn't enough pressure to fill the drain without blocking the other
end and allowing the air out in order to allow the drainpipe to fill
with poison.

$1400. to get a ditchwitch and lay a new and absolutely clean
drainageway is a far more than reasonable price, and extremely
cost-effective in the long run. Expect $3000. at jobs end unless you
know the person. (Still a reasonable price in the long run).

Heavy equipment or hard labor and time. $1400 is real cheap for a major
recurrent problem. Brother's a plumber, dad's a gardener, other brother
runs heavy equipment. Run a new drain line.

$1400 is just to install a sewer cleanout. Not to replace pipes.

I HAD serious root troubles A camera inspection of my line showed
every joint but 2 with roots The roots are not only outside but under
the house too

After paying a bunch of $$ for snaking and always running he risk the
snake might break, requiring the line be dug up I solved the problem
for the last 4 or 5 years. It cheap, effective, easy too do, and the
material is safe to work with

as long as you dont use this on cast iron you will be fine!

Dump a 25 pound bag of rock salt in your washtub, every few months,
espically in late winter when major tree root growth occurs.

Just dump in tub, mix with lots of hot water then DONT se any water
foir at least 8 hours.

Ever notice how rock salt kills grass?

Does the same to roots but wouldnt kill the tree!

Much better cheaper than copper sulfate root killer etc....

Mike Grooms wrote:

TheNIGHTCRAWLER,

Ummm...I'm going to take a wild guess here. You're from the
"alt.home.repair" and not the plumbing newsgroup, aren't you?
posted:
atl.general,alt.home.repair,pdaxs.services.plumbin g

I'm from
atl.general

Had a girlfriend who had to go through this exact same thing with her
grandmothers house. Problems?

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly using
the slicer/dicer.

Someone sent you a genie in a bottle from the distance. Thanks would be
nice but not necessary in my line of work.

NC
(Life - Cut the resolution, pathetic, and indicative of current
society.)

Deuteros wrote:

TheNIGHTCRAWLER wrote in
:

Deuteros wrote:

We recently had Roto-Rooter come out and snake out our sewer connection.
Apparently tree roots were clogging the pipes so they were cleaned out.
Getting rid of the roots is only a temporary problem and the Roto-Rooter
guy told us that the root problem was on the city side of the sewer and
they would be responsible for repairing it. Well, we gave the city
(Roswell, Georgia) a call and they sent a guy out and he told us that
they can't do anything because we don't have a sewer clean out in our
yard. Our house is 30 years old so I guess they didn't put them in back
then.

Does anyone know how much these cost to install? The city wants to
charge $1400 but I think this is way too much. Anyone have a similar
experience?

There's a slice and dice home repair roto-rooter style attachment from
available for rent from Home Depot that deals with the root thing fairly
cheap ~$75. Then you have to follow-up with a root-killer poison to
prevent the roots from growing again and it pretty much kills off all
ground-life in it's path to the ocean.

Normally, it's not effective because the drainwater/poison runs at the
bottom of the pipe and the roots come down from above, hence a big waste
of money as the roots grow downward from the top fairly quickly.
Flooding the drain will not work to reach the top roots with poison.
There isn't enough pressure to fill the drain without blocking the other
end and allowing the air out in order to allow the drainpipe to fill
with poison.

$1400. to get a ditchwitch and lay a new and absolutely clean
drainageway is a far more than reasonable price, and extremely
cost-effective in the long run. Expect $3000. at jobs end unless you
know the person. (Still a reasonable price in the long run).

Heavy equipment or hard labor and time. $1400 is real cheap for a major
recurrent problem. Brother's a plumber, dad's a gardener, other brother
runs heavy equipment. Run a new drain line.

$1400 is just to install a sewer cleanout. Not to replace pipes.


Define sewer cleanout.

NC

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote

Define sewer cleanout.


A line sized opening (up to 4") to provide mechanical access to a sanitary
sewer.

You're offering plumbing advice and you need this definition?



Bob Wheatley

Sure Copper Sulfate works well. You poison allot of fish too.
Roots NEVER stop. Few things in the world are as strong and if
they feel water they get it.
Its best always to dig and replace.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a similar issue years ago with tree roots. Tried to snake it
myself and ended up getting the snake stuck about 40' out from the
house. No way to budge it. You never want to hear your plumber say
"backhoe"! $1900 later I had a brand new pvc line out to the street
with a cleanout on the front lawn. Main reason for the cleanout
outside was that since they had to dig they yard up anyway, if it ever
clogged again they would be able to snake it without messing up the
basement as much.

If the city won't fix it, I would go with the root poison (copper
sulfate I believe, every 6 months) and roto rooter on a preventive
maintenance schedule as the cheap option. If it becomes a constant
problem, look at the expensive fix.

Nah, Bobs joking, its a manhole for midgets.

"Bob Wheatley" wrote in message
...
"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote

Define sewer cleanout.


A line sized opening (up to 4") to provide mechanical access to a sanitary
sewer.

You're offering plumbing advice and you need this definition?



Bob Wheatley

I saw at the roto-router site they can pull a new swerline in underground
without digging.
Ask your roto-router guy about that, if its cheap then try it.

I always dig them up and replace with PVC.

It seems to me if there is going to be a machine on site to dig up part of
the line just to add a clean-out then you would just replace the whole line.





"Red Jacket" Red wrote in message
...
Sure Copper Sulfate works well. You poison allot of fish too.
Roots NEVER stop. Few things in the world are as strong and if
they feel water they get it.
Its best always to dig and replace.


wrote in message
oups.com...
Had a similar issue years ago with tree roots. Tried to snake it
myself and ended up getting the snake stuck about 40' out from the
house. No way to budge it. You never want to hear your plumber say
"backhoe"! $1900 later I had a brand new pvc line out to the street
with a cleanout on the front lawn. Main reason for the cleanout
outside was that since they had to dig they yard up anyway, if it ever
clogged again they would be able to snake it without messing up the
basement as much.

If the city won't fix it, I would go with the root poison (copper
sulfate I believe, every 6 months) and roto rooter on a preventive
maintenance schedule as the cheap option. If it becomes a constant
problem, look at the expensive fix.

On Thu, 02 Feb 2006 01:24:54 GMT, "Ned Flanders"
wrote:

I saw at the roto-router site they can pull a new swerline in underground
without digging.
Ask your roto-router guy about that, if its cheap then try it.

It's not cheap. Often less invasive/destructive, but still expensive.

I always dig them up and replace with PVC.

This is cheaper.

TheNIGHTCRAWLER in
:

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly using
the slicer/dicer.

time of reinvasion varies depending on the roots' species. sometimes there's a
noninvasive tree who's just too close. (lots of mud in the line, but it washes downstream
during the rooting)

" in
oups.com:

A camera inspection of my line

i hope it was of your drain, not a recording.

KLS in :

PVC
pvc? or ABS? (for dwv)

i hope it was of your drain, not a recording.

It was definetely mine, since I saw the PVC joint in the terracota pipe
where I added a toilet run. and the conversion to pvc at the street

It was a sad videotape, which is still around here somewhere.

the house is 50 years old, in 1991 I added the toilet and had major
troubles digging in basement, heavy tree roots everywhere,
sed a small chain saw on one

200 year old sycamore in back yard, well out of its drip line, but it
must be the major tree root source down there

Need a job ? See Ned Flanders. Top of the line union wages.
60 days paid vacation your own van with new tools.
4 day work week. heh friendly atmosphere. bonus
for timely work.

wrote in message
...
TheNIGHTCRAWLER in
:

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly using
the slicer/dicer.

time of reinvasion varies depending on the roots' species. sometimes
there's a
noninvasive tree who's just too close. (lots of mud in the line, but it
washes downstream
during the rooting)

PVC or better Cast Iron.


wrote in message
...
KLS in :

PVC
pvc? or ABS? (for dwv)

Red Jacket wrote:
PVC or better Cast Iron.

You are such a dinosaur. Do you recomend bell & spigot ro no-hub?

Age and experience wins over youth and ambition Mike.

Stand in front of a mirror, put your elbows near the back
of your ribs have your arms straight out.
Open and close your mouth.
Wave your hands up and down.

Don't you look like a baby Tyrannosaurus ?


"Mike Grooms" wrote in message
...
Red Jacket wrote:
PVC or better Cast Iron.

You are such a dinosaur. Do you recomend bell & spigot ro no-hub?

Red Jacket wrote:

Age and experience wins over youth and ambition Mike.

Stand in front of a mirror, put your elbows near the back
of your ribs have your arms straight out.
Open and close your mouth.
Wave your hands up and down.

Don't you look like a baby Tyrannosaurus ?


Dang, I do!!

lol


"Mike Grooms" wrote in message
...
Red Jacket wrote:

Age and experience wins over youth and ambition Mike.

Stand in front of a mirror, put your elbows near the back
of your ribs have your arms straight out.
Open and close your mouth.
Wave your hands up and down.

Don't you look like a baby Tyrannosaurus ?


Dang, I do!!

"Red Jacket" Red wrote:

Need a job ? See Ned Flanders. Top of the line union wages.
60 days paid vacation your own van with new tools.
4 day work week. heh friendly atmosphere. bonus
for timely work.

wrote in message
...
TheNIGHTCRAWLER in
:

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly using
the slicer/dicer.

time of reinvasion varies depending on the roots' species. sometimes
there's a
noninvasive tree who's just too close. (lots of mud in the line, but it
washes downstream
during the rooting)



I offer advice, and I do it once for free.

NC

"Bob Wheatley" wrote:

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote

Define sewer cleanout.


A line sized opening (up to 4") to provide mechanical access to a sanitary
sewer.

You're offering plumbing advice and you need this definition?
Yeah, that sums it up. Someone wanted to fix something?




Bob Wheatley

Note: Brother's a 30yr ga certified plumber, I'm a 30yr pc tech. You
should talk to your next door neighbor. "It's" likely they have the
same problem. I'm thinking of going into psychology at this rate.

NC

TheNIGHTCRAWLER,

I offer advice, and I do it once for free.

Thanks. I think we got our money's worth.

TheNIGHTCRAWLER,

Note: Brother's a 30yr ga certified plumber, I'm a 30yr pc tech.

If your brother read what you wrote, he'd be embarrassed for you.
Have you noticed that we plumbers refrain from getting on a pc tech
group and offering free advice?

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote in message
...
"Bob Wheatley" wrote:

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote

Define sewer cleanout.


A line sized opening (up to 4") to provide mechanical access to a sanitary
sewer.

You're offering plumbing advice and you need this definition?
Yeah, that sums it up. Someone wanted to fix something?


Hopefully no one ever gets hurt while you are pretending to be a
plumber.......



Note: Brother's a 30yr ga certified plumber, I'm a 30yr pc tech. You
should talk to your next door neighbor. "It's" likely they have the same
problem. I'm thinking of going into psychology at this rate.


What is "certified"?
My uncle is a doctor, can I offer medical advice?


Bob Wheatley

a 30 year old gay plumber and a pc technician



"Bob Wheatley" wrote in message
...
"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote in message
...
"Bob Wheatley" wrote:

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote

Define sewer cleanout.


A line sized opening (up to 4") to provide mechanical access to a
sanitary
sewer.

You're offering plumbing advice and you need this definition?
Yeah, that sums it up. Someone wanted to fix something?


Hopefully no one ever gets hurt while you are pretending to be a
plumber.......



Note: Brother's a 30yr ga certified plumber, I'm a 30yr pc tech. You
should talk to your next door neighbor. "It's" likely they have the same
problem. I'm thinking of going into psychology at this rate.


What is "certified"?
My uncle is a doctor, can I offer medical advice?


Bob Wheatley

"Bob Wheatley" wrote in
:
What is "certified"?
My uncle is a doctor, can I offer medical advice?


Bob Wheatley

Actually, that's the funny thing about "certification". If you offer
medical advice, someone takes it and dies, you CAN'T be sued over it
because you DON'T have a medical license. If your Uncle does the same
thing, he can get the **** sued outta him.

Eric

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote in message
...
"Red Jacket" Red wrote:

Need a job ? See Ned Flanders. Top of the line union wages.
60 days paid vacation your own van with new tools.
4 day work week. heh friendly atmosphere. bonus
for timely work.

wrote in message
...
TheNIGHTCRAWLER in
:

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly
using
the slicer/dicer.

time of reinvasion varies depending on the roots' species. sometimes
there's a
noninvasive tree who's just too close. (lots of mud in the line, but it
washes downstream
during the rooting)



I offer advice, and I do it once for free.

NC

Ned likes people who work for free.

"Mike Grooms" wrote in message
...
Red Jacket wrote:

Age and experience wins over youth and ambition Mike.

Stand in front of a mirror, put your elbows near the back
of your ribs have your arms straight out.
Open and close your mouth.
Wave your hands up and down.

Don't you look like a baby Tyrannosaurus ?


Dang, I do!!

Good. Now go outside and scare some children.

I dont get it, but I do like it if you work for free.

"Red Jacket" Red wrote in message
...

"TheNIGHTCRAWLER" wrote in message
...
"Red Jacket" Red wrote:

Need a job ? See Ned Flanders. Top of the line union wages.
60 days paid vacation your own van with new tools.
4 day work week. heh friendly atmosphere. bonus
for timely work.

wrote in message
...
TheNIGHTCRAWLER in
:

Took the roots about two months to clog things back up thoroughly
using
the slicer/dicer.

time of reinvasion varies depending on the roots' species. sometimes
there's a
noninvasive tree who's just too close. (lots of mud in the line, but
it
washes downstream
during the rooting)



I offer advice, and I do it once for free.

NC

Ned likes people who work for free.