I have to agree with Ken's comments. I would have first got a
professional estimate on price and needed repairs then you would know
the right asking price. If indeed your asking price is below the norm
considering the repairs needed, then stick with it. If not, then you'll
be stuck to make at least the major repairs. All of these repairs are
issues to deal with. We're only trying to be honest and up front with you.

J




wrote:
On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba" wrote:


She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...


Her initial offer was one point eight percent below your asking price
-- that's hardly a low ball offer.

Buying subject to a home inspection is common ... the buyer ordered
one up on a timely basis ... I don't see any bad faith. The next
buyer will want the same thing.


Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post


An inch or two of settling can be a serious thing.


fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line


These aren't nits -- they are plumbing problems that can lead to
much larger problems. Any buyer will want them fixed. Why on earth
weren't they fixed when they occured.


place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes


That's a safety and code issue ... any buyer will want it done.


remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps


reconnect heating duct


vent dryer to side of house


reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents



Duh ... why wouldn't you have done these before you listed the house?



She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap.


Get a quote. Find out what you are dealing with.


t I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk.


Sellling a house is stressful. Don't let your emotions beat you out
of a decent deal. You have a potential sale at 267. Sometimes the
first offer is the best offer.

You've had a lot of showings .. and drawn one offer after six days.
If your house was a bargain, it likely would have sold in the first
couple of days if the market is truly a hot one.


Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me.


Of course she wants the deal to go forward ... you have NO other
offers. It's a good deal if you can work with it.


She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.


Can't speak to your jurisdiction, but here and many others, she is
absolutely right.


I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...


I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?


The only real issue is the slop of the floors ... and the foundation
work. The rest might be five hundred buck.

You have three choices: You can counter her offer with an "as is"
sale. You can do all the work she wants ... or you can go somewhere
in between -- do all the plumbing, electrical, heating and venting ..
and give her a thousand bucks to deal with the foundation.

We can't see your house ... we have no idea what it's truly worth ...

You have to make a judgement call ... just how good a deal is your
house at 267?? How did you set the price???

How much of an impediment to the next sale will these things be?? (If
you're going to fix them anyway, why not do it on the offer you have?)
How serious is the settling problem.

From what you've said, I think your realtor is acting in your best
interest.

Ken

UPDATE 1/14: You know, after receiving all of this advice, I decided
that certainly getting the plumbing fixed would be a very good idea. I
called my Plumbing company and a journeyman plumber came out this
morning. I paid $313.00 for him to come out, go down all over the
crawl space and check each drain. The entire water system was
pressurized to find NO PRESENT LEAKS!!! So I just paid out over $300
bucks to be told that there was no problem.......I'm pretty fried. The
plumber told me that it wouldn't be ethical of him to suggest fixes
when there aren't any. Despite this information, it looks like the
buyer is going to walk because a: she doesn't belive the licensed
journeyman plumber.....and b. I won't fix the foundation. Which, upon
looking at the inspection report, the foundation was rated as "FAIR",
with settling typical for a home this age!!! Go figure. But she wants
it fixed. Well, take a hike quickly please so I can get my home back
on the market...I had another showing today, despite the fact that the
house is tied up in the contingency phase.

On 14 Jan 2006 14:46:27 -0800, "Shiba"
scribbled this interesting note:

UPDATE 1/14: You know, after receiving all of this advice, I decided
that certainly getting the plumbing fixed would be a very good idea. I
called my Plumbing company and a journeyman plumber came out this
morning. I paid $313.00 for him to come out, go down all over the
crawl space and check each drain. The entire water system was
pressurized to find NO PRESENT LEAKS!!! So I just paid out over $300
bucks to be told that there was no problem.......I'm pretty fried. The
plumber told me that it wouldn't be ethical of him to suggest fixes
when there aren't any. Despite this information, it looks like the
buyer is going to walk because a: she doesn't belive the licensed
journeyman plumber.....and b. I won't fix the foundation. Which, upon
looking at the inspection report, the foundation was rated as "FAIR",
with settling typical for a home this age!!! Go figure. But she wants
it fixed. Well, take a hike quickly please so I can get my home back
on the market...I had another showing today, despite the fact that the
house is tied up in the contingency phase.

I suppose this clears up the supposed requirement to list the
previously "known" problems to future potential buyers?

As to the foundation, if it ain't broke, don't fix it. You've openly
disclosed the known information as well as the fact that, according to
one source, that it isn't a real problem. So far as I'm concerned, one
inch across the length of a foundation that old isn't a problem. If
you need another opinion, go out and buy one from a foundation company
or structural engineer. The expense is justified as other buyers may
flag the same "problem" and you will then already be prepared.
--
John Willis

(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

home inspectors always find things wrong to justify their fee

I had one report gas leak in furnace and brand new hot water tank. both
were checked by professional plumber and nothing wrong no leaks. sayd
it happens all the time.

Shiba wrote:
I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am
the second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the
home, I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that
the house was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't
note any real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out
for a front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out
and put in exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a
torchdown (since there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and
just to watch that I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise
in good shape. He also said that there was some slight settling (1"
to 2" max) in the foundation on a corner of the house. That
inspector said that wasn't a problem, that it was normal in a house
this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K
for this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers
and interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and
then we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the
spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the
price? How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows
up at the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the
spot. Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold
her house in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that
night. First off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which
is fine. I countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately
accepted. She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24
hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the
buyer than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new
sellers disclosure and document all of these findings, which could
scare off new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her
like her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

Here's what I'd do:

Tell her that her list of defects is substantially less than what you would
have expected on a house this old. Further, that you'd already factored in
an estimated repair burden on the part of the buyer, but since the
anticipated repair costs are substantially less than you'd imagined, you
are, reluctantly, raising the price by $17,000.

And you want to thank her for pointing all this out.

And yes, in a negotiation, you can raise the price.

It sounds like she is running away from the deal. Fine by me...because
a seller like that will cause me nothing but headaches. And when
something breaks, she'll probably try and drag me to court. If another
inspector flags the foundation, I probably will pay for an opinion from
a structural engineer.

On Fri, 13 Jan 2006 01:17:18 -0800, "Bob" wrote:


"Shiba" wrote in message oups.com...
I'm in the "Northeast Tacoma" neighborhood, just west of Federal Way,
about 1 mile east of Puget Sound. I'm not Seattle, but in between
There are 500K homes just three blocks west of me, and those lots are
half the size of mine (I have a 10K) lot.

Large lots here are worth a 'lot'. The accessor is nailing me for a 74% increase
this year, almost all on the property, not the 'developements'.

Bob

I think we have a law that they can't increase values more than 10
percent a year.

I went in and contested value and they lowered my value 15% when I
showed evidence of termite damage. I also have a spouse that is
turning 65 this year so my value will be locked in for life. And on
top of that, I get a homestead exemption. Shouldn't they be paying
me?

On 14 Jan 2006 21:40:34 -0800, "Shiba" wrote:

It sounds like she is running away from the deal. Fine by me...because
a seller like that will cause me nothing but headaches. And when
something breaks, she'll probably try and drag me to court. If another
inspector flags the foundation, I probably will pay for an opinion from
a structural engineer.

Some folks are so insecure in their decisions that they expect to be
cheated. And they are disappointed when they are not cheated.

I once sold a house with window air conditioners. After the last walk
through, one of the small units died. I bought a new one and installed
it. When I told the buyer, she threw a fit and wanted her unit back.
She had me take out the new one and set the old one in the floor. I
tried to give her the new one. No way. Some people you can't
understand.

just some thoughts.
the seller wants the buyer's money. who has any? do the people who are
walking thru your house all have pre-approved mortgages and are ready
to buy?
is this an eager buyer or a price chopper with empty pockets? should
you dropping your price on day 6 of a listing?
should your agent ask the next buyer to demonstrate proof of cash? in
the absence of this cash the buyer may be buying time while shopping
for financing.
in the same way your sale is conditional on whatever, the buyer has
their conditional on whatever.
reread the purchase offer.

our friend al ryer in buffalo ny sells houses, see his tips below or
at:
http://alryer.com/tips.php

"In order for you to make a good decision all your real estate
questions must be answered.
Learn the "full circle" process of real estate to better understand
your needs & obligations.
Don't overprice your home! This attracts the wrong prospects,
eliminates offers & helps sell the competition.
Properties that are priced right sell faster & at a higher price.
The 5 factors that control price are; Location, time, terms, condition
of property & the agent you select.
20% of the buyers for your home come from the "for sale" sign.
60% of the buyers for a home come from referrals from the firms sale
staff or firm name recognition.
Only 1% of the buyers actually bought from an open house that they saw!

"First impressions" help sell your home. Prepare your home by
making it as appealing as possible.
Keep your home neutral. Neutral colors & simple décor help someone
visualize their own belongings in a room.
Showtime! When preparing to show your home put away any toys, clothes,
food or other "left out" items.
Kitchen remodeling brings 60-100% return on your investment, unless you
really go overboard.
Realistic pricing of your home results in added exposure & a higher
sale price.
Make sure your home compares favorably with the "competition".
The "asking price" for your home must deliver the highest financial
return in a reasonable period of time with the least inconvenience.
When selling keep your home uncluttered. It will be neater & look
larger. You want to convey a spacious feeling.
Keep your home clean. This creates the impression that your home has
been well cared for.
Keep your home dynamic! Make your home memorable! From fresh flowers to
fresh clean smells, your house should be inviting.
Basement - It is very important to clean & deodorize areas where pets
sleep or spend time. Straighten tool, shop & laundry areas. Sweep
floors; cleanup grease spots.
Central air conditioning & fireplaces do bring additional value to your
home.
Choose a real estate agent that's willing to work long, hard & smart
for you. This should be based on the agents integrity, skill &
marketing plan - NOT because he or she told you a PRICE you wanted to
hear.
Selecting a good real estate attorney to complete your transaction is
extremely important.
As a buyer, find the best possible financing to suit your needs. This
will depend on your available cash, credit & other items. There are
many different mortgages & programs available. A good real estate agent
should be able to direct you the proper way.
Making one extra principle & interest payment a year towards your
existing mortgage can save you thousands of dollars.
Be careful of home equity loans, especially if you plan on selling your
home in the near future.
As a buyer, it is highly recommended for you to have a professional
home inspection done. This is typically done a few days after executed
contracts.
A professional home inspection will help prioritize the homes needs &
familiarize you with the home.
If you have any questions left prior to buying or selling a home, then
you are not ready to move forward. Get the answers first!
Buying a home is one of the biggest investments in your lifetime. Be
prepared to make the right decisions. Have all the information you need
in hand before doing so!
The national average time to own a home is only 5 years.
97% of overpriced homes end up selling below market value. Pricing your
home is extremely important.
Testing for radon, water contaminates & lead levels are now more
common. Addressing these will assure you a safer environment.
Remodeling your kitchen or bathroom will give you a greater return on
your investment.
Negotiating a sales price can be challenging. For example, if the
seller is anxious to move, they may be more flexible. But if the seller
is firm, offering a much lower price may deter them from negotiating at
all.
When selling your home, it's important to set a competitive price
without it being too high which could turn off potential buyers.
Many buyers go on first impressions so the outside home maintenance is
crucial. Keep the lawn cut & the bushes pruned. Perform needed repairs
to enhance the outside appearance. "

HeyBub wrote:
Shiba wrote:

I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am
the second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the
home, I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that
the house was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't
note any real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out
for a front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out
and put in exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a
torchdown (since there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and
just to watch that I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise
in good shape. He also said that there was some slight settling (1"
to 2" max) in the foundation on a corner of the house. That
inspector said that wasn't a problem, that it was normal in a house
this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K
for this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers
and interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and
then we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the
spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the
price? How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows
up at the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the
spot. Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold
her house in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that
night. First off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which
is fine. I countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately
accepted. She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24
hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the
buyer than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new
sellers disclosure and document all of these findings, which could
scare off new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her
like her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?


Here's what I'd do:

Tell her that her list of defects is substantially less than what you would
have expected on a house this old. Further, that you'd already factored in
an estimated repair burden on the part of the buyer, but since the
anticipated repair costs are substantially less than you'd imagined, you
are, reluctantly, raising the price by $17,000.

And you want to thank her for pointing all this out.

And yes, in a negotiation, you can raise the price.


I thought there was an offer and agreement on the offer. Be pretty
unethical to say I know I said I would sell to you for $267K and you
agreed and we both signed the offer (a contract?). Now it's $285K
despite our signed agreement?

"coorslte" wrote:




MERCIFUL HUGE SNIPS

I thought there was an offer and agreement on the offer. Be pretty
unethical to say I know I said I would sell to you for $267K and you
agreed and we both signed the offer (a contract?). Now it's $285K
despite our signed agreement?

You thought wrong.

--
Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.

UPDATE 1/18: Well, as expected, the buyer is backing out. Fine by
me...The woman sounded like a basket case anyway, so it is for the
better. I'm irritated about the inspection though. It's apparent to
me that the guy really didn't know what he was doing. I swore that I
wouldn't do it unless I absolutely had to but.......I ventured down
into the crawl space for the first time last weekend. That's just
something us girls don't like to do So after I got cozy with the
resident spiders, I crawled around to put eyes on the problems that
this inspector supposedly found. I did find some large electrical
wires that had been incorrectly spliced together, a hazard. They were
underneath the remodel jetted tub. I know that the prior homeowner did
that job himself. I ended up hiring an electrician to put the wires in
junction boxes, so it is not an issue at the next inspection. I also
went to see where all of this "insulation" was that had come loose and
was hanging...that I was told should be taken down. Upon closer
inspection, it was apparent that this "insulation" had been tacked up
around the interior of the foundation only, with plastic covering the
floor, and that it had been deliberately placed there, not just
"hanging". Upon closer inspection, I find that it is vapor block!
and that it is SUPPOSED to be there since it is protecting the house!

Now there are two new offers on the table. I accepted one where they
are paying all closing costs and are paying me above my asking price.
It's a really clean offer, 5K earnest money and their financing is
ready to go. Inspection is on Friday....

Shiba wrote:

Now there are two new offers on the table. I accepted one where they
are paying all closing costs and are paying me above my asking price.
It's a really clean offer, 5K earnest money and their financing is
ready to go. Inspection is on Friday....

That's great, I had a feeling that it would work out for you.

Yeah, thanks for the encouragement. This has been quite a learning
experience for me.

Nope, they had financing. And they wanted all of these things fixed,
not cash off for the faults.

60% of the buyers for a home come from referrals from the firms sale
staff or firm name recognition.

Does this include posting your homes for sale on web sites? I've been
doing some research, and I've noticed the big sites are annoying
because its often hard to get a good idea of exactly where the home is
located and what the prices in that area are. The best I've seen so
far is www.cubeglobe.com and it looks like they are just starting out.
Good thing is that its free, so I don't see any risk in just posting
there.