I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

"Shiba" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

If you are in no hurry to sell, tell the buyer to find another house. If
this is truly a hot market, estimate the costs of all the repairs, add that
to your current "sell price" , then back off to your current price so that
the next buyer can appear to get a major discount to fully allow for
repairs. Your selling price is not set in concrete, and I, too, suspect you
are not well served by your current agent.

Thanks for that. That's the response I'm getting from some other
family members too. I do have a contingent offer for the house I'm
moving into. So I guess you could say that could fall apart if this
house doesn't sell. So I am kind of in a hurry, but not THAT
desparate!

Also, anyone have any thoughts on the settling foundation? Is 1" to 2"
inches something to really be concerned about on a home that is 40+?
or is it fairly normal for a house this age... This is the first time
I've ever sold a house, so I'm learning too....

Shiba wrote:



I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

She seems completely unreasonable - naturally an old house will have
some issues. You would be justified in telling her to stop wasting
your time. I wouldn't fix the items, because she might just find more
items and you would be playing catch-up.

What you do next depends on how much of a hurry you are to sell. I
don't know what your area is like, but the price sounds low enough
already.

In the meantime, you could tell your realtor that your house is still
on the market and show it to some more people. You might find a buyer
or your prospect might be prompted to honor her offer.

Shiba wrote:
Thanks for that. That's the response I'm getting from some other
family members too. I do have a contingent offer for the house I'm
moving into. So I guess you could say that could fall apart if this
house doesn't sell. So I am kind of in a hurry, but not THAT
desparate!

Also, anyone have any thoughts on the settling foundation? Is 1" to 2"
inches something to really be concerned about on a home that is 40+?
or is it fairly normal for a house this age... This is the first time
I've ever sold a house, so I'm learning too....

When I was house shopping in Austin, I had a structural engineer check
two houses. His rule is any height difference of an inch and a half
from highest to lowest is a concern. Structurally, that range is still
OK, but you'll start to see cracks in the walls and floors. If you have
nice wood floors--or the buyer wishes to install them--further uneven
settling can cause problems with the floor. If they plan to pain or do
something elaborate with the walls, a crack will come through.

For those reasons, eliminating these cracks becomes priority one. It's
not fun for the buyer to do. They want to spend money on spicing things
up after they move in. Fixing the foundation puts money into a pit, and
you get what looks like the same house as before.

For houses I was looking at that needed slab work, the cost for putting
in piers was about $4,000 for over half the perimeter of 1500+ square
feet houses--two story though so the area of the house is perhaps
smaller than you may think. I was deterred by this in one house.
However, I bid on and now live in another house that was getting to be
kind of borderline. We had decided that clearing the dirt around the
slab and installing water circulation hoses will distribute moisture and
stave off the magic 1.5" threshold.

"Shiba" wrote in message oups.com...
Thanks for that. That's the response I'm getting from some other
family members too. I do have a contingent offer for the house I'm
moving into. So I guess you could say that could fall apart if this
house doesn't sell. So I am kind of in a hurry, but not THAT
desparate!

Also, anyone have any thoughts on the settling foundation? Is 1" to 2"
inches something to really be concerned about on a home that is 40+?
or is it fairly normal for a house this age... This is the first time
I've ever sold a house, so I'm learning too....


I don't know where you are, but your price seems very low compared to what
I've seen in NW Seattle. I haven't seen anything in my neighborhood below $300K
in a while. I'd be tempted to tell her to "take it or leave it". Every house has problems.
Yours don't seem like that big of a deal.

She's trying to get everything she can out of you. She'll probably buy it anyway.

Bob

I'm in the "Northeast Tacoma" neighborhood, just west of Federal Way,
about 1 mile east of Puget Sound. I'm not Seattle, but in between
There are 500K homes just three blocks west of me, and those lots are
half the size of mine (I have a 10K) lot.

"Shiba" wrote in message oups.com...
I'm in the "Northeast Tacoma" neighborhood, just west of Federal Way,
about 1 mile east of Puget Sound. I'm not Seattle, but in between
There are 500K homes just three blocks west of me, and those lots are
half the size of mine (I have a 10K) lot.

Large lots here are worth a 'lot'. The accessor is nailing me for a 74% increase
this year, almost all on the property, not the 'developements'.

Bob

Tell that woman to go pound sand. She's witch with a capitol B. You're
better off selling to someone else, even at a lower price. If someone like
that buys the house, you could end up in court for years to come over stupid
crap.

"Shiba" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

Folks across the street sold their house for a reported $980,000.
Buyer's realtor found 43 "defects" which required fixing before sale.
Owner said buy "as is".
The couple bought "as is".
TB

This is normal bantering of any real estate sale.


You didn't sign anything did you? If you did, then you are stuck
with what you signed. Read it carefully. And don't ever sign
anything prepared by the buyer.

You have made an offer that was accepted but with 'conditions'.
Legally, that is a counteroffer and you can reject it. You should
now reject that acceptance/counteroffer and tell her you are no longer
interested in selling to her.

You make sure that the price you ask does not include any fix ups.
You are now selling the house 'AS IS' and any repairs needed will be
paid for by the buyer. But you also must fully disclose all of the
items you know about including the list the last inspector found.






On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba" wrote:

I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

Shiba wrote:
...

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor..
Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

You have a realtor. Your realtor is interested in selling your home for
as much as possible due to the commission. Let your realtor do their job
and you should keep out of the negations. You can then ignore all the
little stuff and tricks that might be used by the buyer and only focus on
the one thing that counts, the final offer.

--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

"Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents "


Every one of these items appears to be legitimate and would be found by
any competent home inspector. Some of them
are safety issues, like having wiring connections correctly placed
inside junction boxes. Others need to be addressed quikcly, like the
leaks,
which will lead to big problems like a rotting floor, if not taken care
of properly. It's funny, usually people in here are bitching about how
lousy and incompetent home inspectors are. It sounds like this one did
his job, yet most people seem to think it's unreasonable.

Now, do you have to fix all of these? Hopefully not, but we don;t have
a copy of the contract you signed. It should
give you an out, where you can decline to fix the problems and it
definitely should if they exceed a specified amount.
What you want to do depends entirely on your circumstances and how
quickly you think you can find another
buyer for the same or higher price. A middle ground would be to
offer the buyer a discount
that would cover some of the repairs.

BTW, you were not well served by your home inspector who told you that
2" of settling is normal for a 30 year old house
and nothing to be concerned about when you bought it.

Sorry BUT I only read your original message down far enough that I
came to the conclusion that I woudl say NO and tell the buyer to
take a hikle...

I have only some one home in my entire life (it was my Dads place
after he died and to be honest I hatted delaing with most of the
buyers to be...seemed they all kept pointing out little things that I
SHOULD FIX or I SHOULD REDUCE my price if I did not....TOLD THEM all
NO... The house sold in a few weeks...as is .. for exactly what I
asked for it... BUT most of the buyers really did leave a very bad
taste in my mouth...

Bob G.



On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba" wrote:

I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

"Sorry BUT I only read your original message down far enough that I
came to the conclusion that I woudl say NO and tell the buyer to
take a hikle... "

So, you have no problem with leaking drain lines, leaking water lines,
electrical wiring
connections outside of boxes and one side of a room 2" lower than
another?

On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba"
scribbled this interesting note:

I'm in the process of selling my house.
snip
Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

Most of the items listed are, while not necessarily minor, not
difficult to attend to.

Got a leak? It ought to be fixed. Putting electrical connections into
boxes is trivial to achieve. Taking up a toilet, installing a new wax
ring, and connecting it to the floor is about as hard as the
electrical boxes. Loose ducting isn't difficult to fix. In fact, the
only thing on the list that is really problematic is the foundation
repair, which may, or may not be a real problem depending on the
actual situation.

Bottom line? Do you want to sell now? Or later? If now then you can
make a counter offer to her counter offer, specifying the property to
be sold as-is with no warranty, either expressed or implied, as to
condition and livability. In such a counter offer, I would not make
concessions on the price. In fact, I would state that if these repairs
are made, the price, in fact, goes up. I would structure it such that
the price goes up by more than the cost of the repairs. Otherwise the
potential buyer is free to buy the house as-is at the last agreed upon
price.

As to your realtor, the realtor is not motivated to sell your house at
the highest possible price. Remember, most realtors are working for
themselves, but have fees to pay. Your realtor will split the
commission with the buyer's realtor. That leaves your realtor 3%. Most
realtors have to split that with their brokers, so that leaves 1.5%.
1.5% isn't very much. An additional $10,000 in selling price means
only $150.00 to your agent in this scenario. And the realtor may have
to do quite a bit of work for that $150.00 and may indeed be motivated
to put more work into selling other properties that will net the
realtor more money for the same amount of work over the same amount of
time.

Bottom line? Everything is negotiable. If you don't like the offer,
then make a counter offer. Put a time limit on the counter offer so
you can be free of it after a certain time passes.

If I were the buyer, I wouldn't want the seller to make any repairs.
Why? Because the seller is motivated to make the repairs in the
cheapest way possible. The buyer should be motivated to obtain the
highest quality repairs, which may or may not be the cheapest.

Good luck...


--
John Willis

(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

"Bob" wrote in message
...

"Shiba" wrote in message
oups.com...
I'm in the "Northeast Tacoma" neighborhood, just west of Federal Way,
about 1 mile east of Puget Sound. I'm not Seattle, but in between
There are 500K homes just three blocks west of me, and those lots are
half the size of mine (I have a 10K) lot.

Large lots here are worth a 'lot'. The accessor is nailing me for a 74%
increase
this year, almost all on the property, not the 'developements'.

Bob

Same here in N. Illinois...78% on the land. I complained and was told that
to protest I had to show my neighbors were assessed less (all neighbors
increased, too) or find a realtor willing to do an appraisal that showed
they were wrong (min. $300 cost and no guarantee they would consider it).
The Assessors office assurred me that they would lower my assessment when
the real estate "bubble" burst. Yeah, right! The county government decided
to spend $24 million more next year in their budget..give it to them and
they WILL spend it.
Tom G.

"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba"
scribbled this interesting note:

I'm in the process of selling my house.
snip
Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

..

As to your realtor, the realtor is not motivated to sell your house at
the highest possible price. Remember, most realtors are working for
themselves, but have fees to pay. Your realtor will split the
commission with the buyer's realtor. That leaves your realtor 3%. Most
realtors have to split that with their brokers, so that leaves 1.5%.
1.5% isn't very much. An additional $10,000 in selling price means
only $150.00 to your agent in this scenario. And the realtor may have
to do quite a bit of work for that $150.00 and may indeed be motivated
to put more work into selling other properties that will net the
realtor more money for the same amount of work over the same amount of
time.

Bottom line? Everything is negotiable. If you don't like the offer,
then make a counter offer. Put a time limit on the counter offer so
you can be free of it after a certain time passes.

If I were the buyer, I wouldn't want the seller to make any repairs.
Why? Because the seller is motivated to make the repairs in the
cheapest way possible. The buyer should be motivated to obtain the
highest quality repairs, which may or may not be the cheapest.

Good luck...


And I wouldn't be afraid to suggest to the Realtors that they pick up part
of the cost of repairs out of their commissions if they want the deal to go
through. When I was selling Real Estate, I paid for quite a few items that
cropped up at the last minute that would have broke the deal. And the last
house I purchased, the Realtors split $1000 reduction in commission because
the seller was going to be short of what he needed to get out of the house.
Contrary to what most people think, Realtors commissions are not set in
stone. In fact law requires that they not be or the question of price
fixing would be raised by the government.

Tom.

The leaky drains are all news to me. Nothing is showing from the
exterior of the home. All of my drains work well, drain well, flush
well... 2" is on the high end of a guess-timate, with 1" being on the
low end. But apparently THAT inspector said that he was not a
foundation expert and that she should get another opinion as to if it's
a problem or not.

Bob G. wrote:


Sorry BUT I only read your original message down far enough that I
came to the conclusion that I woudl say NO and tell the buyer to
take a hikle...

I have only some one home in my entire life (it was my Dads place
after he died and to be honest I hatted delaing with most of the
buyers to be...seemed they all kept pointing out little things that I
SHOULD FIX or I SHOULD REDUCE my price if I did not....TOLD THEM all
NO... The house sold in a few weeks...as is .. for exactly what I
asked for it... BUT most of the buyers really did leave a very bad
taste in my mouth...

Bob G.

I agree that most buyers can be irritating. When we sold our last home
in a very nice, very "hot" neighborhood one of our neighbors called the
first day with a lowball offer (he wanted the house for his brother) of
$35K less. Each day he called again with a lower offer until I blocked
his calls. When we found the right buyer we gladly offered an
allowance that would cover repair of some items their inspector found
(but not all).

wrote in message
So, you have no problem with leaking drain lines, leaking water lines,
electrical wiring
connections outside of boxes and one side of a room 2" lower than
another?

So what? It comes down to price. If the house is overpriced the buyer
should walk away. If it is a bargain in spite of the repairs needed, the
buyer should grab it. Nothing demands that either party give in to the
other. If I was the seller, I'd probably just refuse the offer and move on,
but fixing any potential safety issues anyway. I'm not sure what is meant
by putting the electrical wires in junction boxes. If the wire is rated for
exposure, I'd leave it. If connections exist where there is no box, it
should be fixed.

19. Edwin Pawlowski Jan 13, 11:57 am

So what? It comes down to price. If the house is overpriced the buyer

should walk away. If it is a bargain in spite of the repairs needed,
the
buyer should grab it.

I agree with that, but apparently lots of people, including you, seem
to have a problem with a buyer doing a home inspection and finding real
problems. Leaking drain pipes, water pipes, foundation problems and
electrical connections outside of boxes are all legitimate issues
uncovered by the inspection process.

"Nothing demands that either party give in to the
other."

No way to know that without seeing what's contained in the contract.

" If I was the seller, I'd probably just refuse the offer and move on,
but fixing any potential safety issues anyway. "

Only safety issues? How about leaking water and drain pipes?
Disconnected heating ducts? Virtually all this is gonna get flagged
again by the next inspection, unless you hope to find a buyer that
won't do an inspection, but that may take a long time.


" I'm not sure what is meant
by putting the electrical wires in junction boxes. If the wire is
rated for
exposure, I'd leave it. If connections exist where there is no box, it

should be fixed. "

From the OP: place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes.
That's pretty clear to me. Sounds like there are exposed electrical
junctions
under the house that need to be placed in junction boxes. Just about
verything this inspector found seems reasonable to me.

Tell the buyer that the 1" settled foundation has been that way as long
as you've been there and never been a problem. Take it or leave it.

Separate the rest of the items in the list into repairs you're willing
to do and ones that you're not willing to do. For the ones you're not
willing to do, offer a little cash back at closing to pay a
professional (she's probably just trying to weasel cash out of you
anyways).

If it breaks the deal, then so be it. And if it does, fix as many of
those problems as you can anyways. It'll make the next buyer happier
at inspection.


-rev

Comments in line --

"Shiba" wrote in message
ups.com...

SNIPS



Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..."


If your real estate agent answered any of this anonymous "fishers"
questions about your internal positions regarding price or factors that
might force you to take a quick sale, your real estate agent ought to be
strung up frm the nearest lamp post. No way a seller's realtor ought to be
answering any questions about the seller's motivations for or needs to make
a quick sale. The seller's agent needs to be constantly reminded that they
work for and are paid by the seller. And only the seller.

Sadly, seller's real estate agnts all too frequently do exactly that,
and indeed start working for the prospectve buyer. Its outrageous and all
too common. Its motivated by what some one down thread already pointed
out. The seller's agent wants to turn the house very quickly and get paid
NOW.

SNIPS

Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.


Gee, big surprise that your agent wants to take more money (cost of
repairs) out of your pocket and put it into the buyer's pocket so that he
agent can put money (commission) in her own pocket.

I'd point out to the real estate agent that she has at best a 60 day
listing, and that it won't be renewed, and that she needs to do her job for
you.

No way there would be any new seller's disclosures based on any "inspection"
done by anyone who you personally didn't hire and pay. If your real estate
agent doesn't like that, she can "fire you" and release you from the lising
agreement.

I'd tell the prospective buyer who made the offer that there will be zero
repairs for her, and that she can take the house "as is" or take a hike.

If the prospective buyer takes a hike, I'd make all the repairs except the
foundation stuff (all of it except the foundation stuff is "Harry Homeowner"
stuff), and add the cost of repair plus 20% of the repair cost to the asking
price, and re list the house at the higher price.


-- Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.

Yes, I am getting irritated with my agent.

I'm thinking that I may fix the plumbing leaks, that's something that
probably wouldn't be all that much to deal with in the greater scheme
of things. The rest... well, she could take a hike on. I got a real
ball park figure from a foundation repair place of between 4K and 8K.
That is in addition to paying for a structural engineer to formulate a
plan and pulling permits. All that for something that hasn't moved in
years.... I can't say that I'm inclined to do it.

"Shiba" wrote in message
ups.com...
I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965, I am the
second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought the home,
I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that the house
was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't note any
real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out for a
front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out and put in
exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown (since
there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to watch that
I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good shape. He
also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max) in the
foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that wasn't a
problem, that it was normal in a house this age.

I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot housing
market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and I've
spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main bathroom, and
landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater and
converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked 269K for
this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of lookers and
interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day and then
we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the spot.

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about arranging
a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that she was
moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on the price?
How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house
in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...

Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they could find
with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were supposedly found
in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I had
recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation). She gave
me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:

Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
fix leak in kitchen sink drain
Tighten main bath toilet to floor
Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
repair leaking bathtub drain
repair leaking water supply line
place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps
reconnect heating duct
vent dryer to side of house
reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation repaired
so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap. Replacing wax
rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel and
dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and walk. Of
course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal to close
so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about the buyer
than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new sellers
disclosure and document all of these findings, which could scare off
new potential buyers.

I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second inspection
(which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place). Just to
see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is just being
nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
fishing...

I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to her like
her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....

Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

Yes - These things should have been fixed before you put the house on the
market. Nothing here is really that major and a general handy man could fix
them all in a day. The only exception is the foundation. I would say the
following to your potential buyer...

I will fix the following:
- leaning support post
- fix leak in kitchen sink drain
- Tighten main bath toilet to floor
- Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom) (Assuming there is a leak
detectable, why else would it need replaced)
- repair leaking bathtub drain
- repair leaking water supply line
- place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
- reconnect heating duct
- vent dryer to side of house
- reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock vents

I will not
- Correct slope in floor
- remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with plumbing straps

The slope could be a major thing or no big deal but I wouldn't go there. The
replacement of wood straps with newer style is stupid if the wood is doing
what is intended. Everything else SHOULD HAVE BEEN FIXED AS MATTER OF COURSE
FOR ANY HOMEOWNER. You should not have been living with these defects. These
things, when left unattended, can lead to very expensive repairs. So, by
offering to make these repairs you are fixing things that should have been
fixed anyway and you are meeting somewhere in the middle.

regarding your agent - You must realize - the agent is NOT out to maximize
the price (and hence their commission) this is a myth. They are more
interested in a quick sale. let me know if you want more details on this
point.

Yeah, don't even get me started on the assessor since I've moved here.
My taxes on this lot are $3005 a year, having more than doubled since I
bought the place.

In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:

Shiba wrote:
..

Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this same woman
called my realtor..
Any words of advice from people that have been through this kind of
thing?

You have a realtor. Your realtor is interested in selling your home for
as much as possible due to the commission. Let your realtor do their job
and you should keep out of the negations. You can then ignore all the
little stuff and tricks that might be used by the buyer and only focus on
the one thing that counts, the final offer.


This seems to make sense at first glance -- the realtor, via the
commissions mechanism, has absolutely the same motivation as the seller
to get the highest price, right? But as explained in another post on
the subject...


In article ,
John Willis wrote:

As to your realtor, the realtor is not motivated to sell your house at
the highest possible price. Remember, most realtors are working for
themselves, but have fees to pay. Your realtor will split the
commission with the buyer's realtor. That leaves your realtor 3%. Most
realtors have to split that with their brokers, so that leaves 1.5%.
1.5% isn't very much. An additional $10,000 in selling price means
only $150.00 to your agent in this scenario. And the realtor may have
to do quite a bit of work for that $150.00 and may indeed be motivated
to put more work into selling other properties that will net the
realtor more money for the same amount of work over the same amount of
time.


This is almost verbatim what I was going to add to the thread. (I think
this scenario was one of the case studies in the recent "Freakonomics"
book.) Two more risks to the realtor of a long sale process:

You, the seller, might get sick of the realtor and get a new one.

You, the seller, might decide you really didn't want to sell.

For all these reasons, the realtor is much more interested in selling
the house now for $250,000 rather than two months later for $270,000.
That price gap makes a huge difference for you as the seller, but the
realtor must also consider turnover. Time is not on their side.

No you are right about my agent. She does want to be done with this
quickly, because her bottom line will be better. If the contingency
falls through, that's more hassle for her too.

27. Jim McLaughlin Jan 13, 12:33 pm

"I'd tell the prospective buyer who made the offer that there will be
zero
repairs for her, and that she can take the house "as is" or take a
hike. "

Another man of principle, that would let a deal that's in the bag go
down the drain and start all over with a new buyer, who's very likley
gonna find the same obvious and legitimate items. You couldn't even
get a CO in most places for this house if the town inspector knew there
were leaking drain pipes, water pipes, electrical junctions exposed,
etc.

"If the prospective buyer takes a hike, I'd make all the repairs
except the
foundation stuff (all of it except the foundation stuff is "Harry
Homeowner"
stuff), and add the cost of repair plus 20% of the repair cost to the
asking
price, and re list the house at the higher price. "

That's swell, but the price of the house is gonna be set by the free
market, not what it cost you to do repairs now that should have been
done a long time ago. Raising the asking price while the seller has
another house they are buying on contigency doesn't sound like a very
good idea to me.

"Bob G." wrote in message
...
:
:
:
: Sorry BUT I only read your original message down far enough
that I
: came to the conclusion that I woudl say NO and tell the buyer
to
: take a hikle...
:
: I have only some one home in my entire life (it was my Dads
place
: after he died and to be honest I hatted delaing with most of
the
: buyers to be...seemed they all kept pointing out little things
that I
: SHOULD FIX or I SHOULD REDUCE my price if I did not....TOLD
THEM all
: NO... The house sold in a few weeks...as is .. for exactly
what I
: asked for it... BUT most of the buyers really did leave a very
bad
: taste in my mouth...
:
: Bob G.
:
:
:
: On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba"
wrote:
:
: I'm in the process of selling my house. It was built in 1965,
I am the
: second owner, having resided here for 7 years. When I bought
the home,
: I had an inspection done. The inspector basically said that
the house
: was pretty clean. He went into the crawl space and didn't
note any
: real defects. The only thing that he noted was to watch out
for a
: front deck where wood was touching earth (which I ripped out
and put in
: exposed agregate). Another was that the roof was a torchdown
(since
: there is a flat area over the enclosed carport), and just to
watch that
: I kept the debris off of it, but it was otherwise in good
shape. He
: also said that there was some slight settling (1" to 2" max)
in the
: foundation on a corner of the house. That inspector said that
wasn't a
: problem, that it was normal in a house this age.
:
: I'm in the Seattle metro area, which has an extremely hot
housing
: market right now. My home is in a desirable neighborhood and
I've
: spent quite a bit of money updating the kitchen, main
bathroom, and
: landscaping in this home. I also replaced the water heater
and
: converted the furnace to forced air gas two years ago. I asked
269K for
: this 1941 sq foot home...I had a lot of activity, lots of
lookers and
: interested parties. We were averaging 1 to 2 showings a day
and then
: we have a bite on day 6, with a woman making an offer on the
spot.
:
: Ironically, the day before this offer, we suspect that this
same woman
: called my realtor "fishing" for information and asking about
arranging
: a showing with my realtor: She said her name was Pat, that
she was
: moving here from Idaho, asking things like: "Is she firm on
the price?
: How anxious to sell? etc..." The next day, this woman
shows up at
: the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the
spot.
: Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold
her house
: in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that
night. First
: off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is
fine. I
: countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately
accepted.
: She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24
hours...
:
: Now that are nit picking to death every little thing they
could find
: with this 41 year old home! All of the defects were
supposedly found
: in the crawl space. She found the same slight settling that I
had
: recorded 7 years ago (no change or movement in foundation).
She gave
: me this laundry list of things to fix before she will buy:
:
: Correct slope in floor & leaning support post
: fix leak in kitchen sink drain
: Tighten main bath toilet to floor
: Replace wax ring in other toilet (2nd bathroom)
: repair leaking bathtub drain
: repair leaking water supply line
: place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes
: remove wood plumbing & heating supports & replace with
plumbing straps
: reconnect heating duct
: vent dryer to side of house
: reattach insulation that has fallen in crawlspace & unblock
vents
:
: She wants the house jacked up and that area under foundation
repaired
: so there is no settling, which I know wont be cheap.
Replacing wax
: rings is no big deal..... but I feel like I am getting nickel
and
: dimed here. I'm ready to have this be a deal breaker and
walk. Of
: course my agent is bending over backwards, wanting this deal
to close
: so she can get paid...I feel like she is more concerned about
the buyer
: than me. She's also saying that we will have to do a new
sellers
: disclosure and document all of these findings, which could
scare off
: new potential buyers.
:
: I'm thinking about getting my own appraisal and a second
inspection
: (which I am kicking myself for not doing in the first place).
Just to
: see if these problems are real "deal breakers" or if she is
just being
: nit pickey. Or should I just give her the finger and keep on
: fishing...
:
: I can't help but wonder if the inspector is a family member to
her like
: her son realtor. She sure is anxious and wants the house....
:
: Any words of advice from people that have been through this
kind of
: thing?
:

IMO, this thread's pretty much reached the point of diminishing
returns with a lot of people suggesting the same basic response
but deciding they're experts on all kinds of things, including
some which weren't even in the original post.

The OP should decide whether they want to be firm on the price
(sounds like it would be logical to do) and just tell the buyer
"yeah, sorry you'll have to spend a little extra money; hope it's
worth it to you" and let them decide. Just don't hide anything,
don't lie, take a position and stick to it. Then it's someone
else's decision and not theirs to worry about.
On the other hand, you could set a "minimum" price in your own
mind to accept, and tell them something like "Oh, OK, I'll take
as little as ... but that's my only concession", but not more
than a couple thou difference.
NO house is going to be perfect for the buyers, period.
Something will always be not quite right; it's the nature of the
game to be picky. Pick and attitude - stick to it. You'll have
time later to take a new one if it's really necessary. Doesn't
sound like it is.
There are some real con type people out there too - they're
the ones are "fun" to deal with if you don't take them too
seriously. Just be agreeable, nod politely, and say NO when they
underbid it.

That is, IFF as the OP indicated, there is time for all that.
Otherwise some concessions may be in order. That's also part of
the game.

My two cents anyway,

Pop

chocolatemalt wrote:
In article ,
"Joseph Meehan" wrote:


This is almost verbatim what I was going to add to the thread. (I
think this scenario was one of the case studies in the recent
"Freakonomics" book.) Two more risks to the realtor of a long sale
process:

You, the seller, might get sick of the realtor and get a new one.

You, the seller, might decide you really didn't want to sell.

For all these reasons, the realtor is much more interested in selling
the house now for $250,000 rather than two months later for $270,000.
That price gap makes a huge difference for you as the seller, but the
realtor must also consider turnover. Time is not on their side.

You make some good points. In this case I think the seller needs the
help of a realtor. Of course some are good and some.. well not so good.

I have sold three homes and I have used a realtor once. I have used an
attorney each time. The one time I did use a realtor it was not possible to
get the home listed in multiple listings services any other way and it was
the easiest way to get the exposure to get it sold.

I don't recommend a realtor for everyone for every situation, but often
they can be well worth their cost.


--
Joseph Meehan

Dia duit

wrote in message

I agree with that, but apparently lots of people, including you, seem
to have a problem with a buyer doing a home inspection and finding real
problems. Leaking drain pipes, water pipes, foundation problems and
electrical connections outside of boxes are all legitimate issues
uncovered by the inspection process.


I never said I had a proble with inspection. I have a problem with the
buyer demanding the fixes. As I said, depends on the price. Many a good
bargain can be had with a 'fixer upper". Sure, the seller can fix them and
perhaps raise the price. Many options exist. Either (or both)
party can walk away.



"Nothing demands that either party give in to the
other."

No way to know that without seeing what's contained in the contract.

There was no contract signed from what was posted. The buyer made an offer
not yet accepted.




Only safety issues? How about leaking water and drain pipes?
Disconnected heating ducts? Virtually all this is gonna get flagged
again by the next inspection, unless you hope to find a buyer that
won't do an inspection, but that may take a long time.

The OP said she never saw leaks. Maybe they exist in the inspector's
imagination. Gain, depends on what you expect and are willing to pay for wh
at you get.



From the OP: place all electrical wires under house in junction boxes.
That's pretty clear to me. Sounds like there are exposed electrical
junctions
under the house that need to be placed in junction boxes. Just about
verything this inspector found seems reasonable to me.

Electrical wires don't go into junction boxes. Only the ends to be connected
do. No, it is not clear. Could well be some UF wire running exposed that
they want in conduit and that is NOT a code requirement.

wrote in message
oups.com...
27. Jim McLaughlin Jan 13, 12:33 pm

"I'd tell the prospective buyer who made the offer that there will be
zero
repairs for her, and that she can take the house "as is" or take a
hike. "

Another man of principle, that would let a deal that's in the bag go
down the drain and start all over with a new buyer, who's very likley
gonna find the same obvious and legitimate items. You couldn't even
get a CO in most places for this house if the town inspector knew there
were leaking drain pipes, water pipes, electrical junctions exposed,
etc.

You must be in a different reality than the rest of us --

Deal is not in the bag. Foundation work is $ 4 - 8 K according to OP. OP
has stated that he's not going to do that.


Only "evidence" of water supply line leak, exposed junctions (which may or
may no exist) ,drain leaks and toilet wax ring and seal problems is from an
"inspector" hired by a potential buyer who has already demonstrated a
propensity to play "games".

Potential buyer called the seller's real estate agent to fish for what is
supposed o be confidential information, showed up with a son as her "agent"
when she viewed the house, and whom she expects the seller's agent to kick
back half the 7% commission to, etc.

In the circumstances, I'd give zero credence to the potenial buyer's
inspection report.



"If the prospective buyer takes a hike, I'd make all the repairs
except the
foundation stuff (all of it except the foundation stuff is "Harry
Homeowner"
stuff), and add the cost of repair plus 20% of the repair cost to the
asking
price, and re list the house at the higher price. "

That's swell, but the price of the house is gonna be set by the free
market, not what it cost you to do repairs now that should have been
done a long time ago. Raising the asking price while the seller has
another house they are buying on contigency doesn't sound like a very
good idea to me.


Again, no evidence that the repairs are actually needed.

"Start all over" ? This offer came within 6 days of putting house on
market. Getting offers in that area is apparently no big deal.

Actual final sale price will be set by he market. The maket is bigger than
one offer.

An asking price is set by the seller.

It isn't an actual final sale price.

You seem to be confabulating the two.

Asking price is an asking price, no more no less. Raising the asking price
after firing the damn fool seller's real estate agent is no big deal.
Provides seller with a little more "wiggle" or negotiating room.

YMMV, but it ain't your house, bub.

--
Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.

"24. Edwin Pawlowski Jan 13, 1:58 pm

"There was no contract signed from what was posted. The buyer made an
offer
not yet accepted. "

I'd have to disagree with that. Not only is it normal practice to have
a signed contract before the inspection, but it's clear from the OP
that they did in fact have a signed contract:


"The next day, this woman shows up at
the house with her agent (her son) and makes an offer on the spot.
Ironically, this buyer's middle name is Pat and she just sold her house

in *gasp* Idaho. She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours... "


A buyer would be crazy to spend $500 for a home inspection without
having a signed contract that spells out the inspection contigency,
timeframes, etc. They could spend the money and have another buyer
show up, offer a little more, and be out the $500.

"The OP said she never saw leaks. Maybe they exist in the inspector's
imagination. Gain, depends on what you expect and are willing to pay
for wh
at you get. "

Yeah, maybe the inspector is a total fraud. But it's more likely the
homeowner never crawled under the place to look, isn't it? Everyone of
those things is common to find and can't usually be seen without an
inspection.

"Electrical wires don't go into junction boxes. Only the ends to be
connected
do. No, it is not clear. Could well be some UF wire running exposed
that
they want in conduit and that is NOT a code requirement. "

A conduit isn't a junction box. I don;t think an inspector would say
junction box if he meant conduit. Again, it's common for half assed
homeowner repairs to be done joining some wires together with wire nuts
and leaving them hanging somewhere. And that is a code violation and
safety hazhard.

But what I don;t get is the idea that the seller should just put up
with this stuff. The contract called for an inspection. It was done.
Now they have to negotiate how to resolve the defects found, which is
just part of the process. Most times people here are bitching cause
they didn't do an inspection or they had an incompetent inspector who
missed defects. For the buyer to expect most of this stuff to be
fixed or given credit for is not unreasonable at all. A year ago, you
could probably tell a buyer to take it or leave it. But if I was under
contract to buy a new house like the OP, I'd sure think twice before I
tell a buyer to get lost over a list, that with one exception, can be
fixed for maybe a thousand bucks.

comments in line


"John Willis" wrote in message
...
On 12 Jan 2006 21:49:16 -0800, "Shiba"
scribbled this interesting note:

SNIPS


As to your realtor, the realtor is not motivated to sell your house at
the highest possible price. Remember, most realtors are working for
themselves, but have fees to pay. Your realtor will split the
commission with the buyer's realtor. That leaves your realtor 3%. Most
realtors have to split that with their brokers, so that leaves 1.5%.
1.5% isn't very much. An additional $10,000 in selling price means
only $150.00 to your agent in this scenario. And the realtor may have
to do quite a bit of work for that $150.00 and may indeed be motivated
to put more work into selling other properties that will net the
realtor more money for the same amount of work over the same amount of
time.

Ahhh, but remember that the potential buyer showed up with her son, who
was introduced as the potential buyer's agent.

$ 269,000.00 house, 7% standard Seattle area resdential comission is $
18,830.00

Split bewtween seller's agent and buyer's agent puts $ 9,415.00 in buyer's
son's pocket.

And buyer still wants more than $ 10,00.00 grand in fixing up?

Whats wrong with this picture?

-- Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.

Bottom line? Everything is negotiable. If you don't like the offer,
then make a counter offer. Put a time limit on the counter offer so
you can be free of it after a certain time passes.

If I were the buyer, I wouldn't want the seller to make any repairs.
Why? Because the seller is motivated to make the repairs in the
cheapest way possible. The buyer should be motivated to obtain the
highest quality repairs, which may or may not be the cheapest.

Good luck...


--
John Willis

(Remove the Primes before e-mailing me)

33. Jim McLaughlin
Jan 13, 2:16 pm

"You must be in a different reality than the rest of us --
Deal is not in the bag. Foundation work is $ 4 - 8 K according to OP.
OP
has stated that he's not going to do that. "

I never said I would do all of it. Only that the list of items appears
legitimate. If you found the foundation sinking 2" on a house you were
under contract to BUY, what would you do? Just say, ok, I'll take it,
no problem? LOL The reality is this happens all the time and the
logical thing to do is often not to dismiss the buyer as some nefarious
witch, but rather to consider the alternatives. It's very likely the
next buyer is gonna find most, if not all of the same things and it may
be better to negotiate with the buyer under contract, rather than just
tell them to shove it.



"Potential buyer called the seller's real estate agent to fish for what
is
supposed o be confidential information, showed up with a son as her
"agent"
when she viewed the house, and whom she expects the seller's agent to
kick
back half the 7% commission to, etc. "

All the buyer asked was how firm they were on price and how motivated
to sell. And you see something nefarious in that? It doesn't hurt to
ask. Sometimes sellers are motivated and aren't shy about letting it
be known. For example, somebody on the verge of foreclosure might well
tell their broker to let it be known they are motivated sellers. Geez,
I've seen plenty of ads by sellers and realtors with the words
"motivated seller, make all offers known", in them. And what's the big
deal that the buyer's son is an agent and she wants to use him? She'd
be a fool not to.

"Asking price is an asking price, no more no less. Raising the asking
price
after firing the damn fool seller's real estate agent is no big deal.
Provides seller with a little more "wiggle" or negotiating room. "

Yeah, great idea. The OP is under contract to buy another house and
you want to raise the asking price to cover repairs like fixing a leaky
tub and water pipe that should have been made years ago. And firing
the real estate agent isn't as simple as you make it sound, as there is
the little matter of a listing agreement. From what I've seen, there
is no justification for terminating the listing and you would likely
get sued by the real estate agent for the commission. Just the realtor
bringing a suit could block the sale.

"Ahhh, but remember that the potential buyer showed up with her son,
who
was introduced as the potential buyer's agent.

$ 269,000.00 house, 7% standard Seattle area resdential comission is
$
18,830.00

Split bewtween seller's agent and buyer's agent puts $ 9,415.00 in
buyer's
son's pocket. "


Dream on. The $9K goes to the agency the son works for, unless he
happens to be a broker on his own, which is uncommon. The agency then
further divides up the money, with the son only getting a portion,
typically half at most. If most real estate agents got the whole
thing, there would be lots of rich real estate agents.

wrote in message
oups.com...


SNIPS

Yeah, great idea. The OP is under contract to buy another house and
you want to raise the asking price to cover repairs like fixing a leaky
tub and water pipe that should have been made years ago.

Again, there is zero credble evidence that these exist. You are jut in a
dfferent reality than everybody else -- no, wait, you are a real estate
agent, right?

And firing
the real estate agent isn't as simple as you make it sound, as there is
the little matter of a listing agreement.

Braec of fiduciary duty, breach o duty of undivided loyalty. Its a snap in
this case

From what I've seen, there
is no justification for terminating the listing and you would likely
get sued by the real estate agent for the commission. Just the realtor
bringing a suit could block the sale.


HuuH.....

There IS NO CONTRACT. What commission was earned?

There was a potential buyer's offer with contingincies. Seller has no
obligation to accept that offer, and no obligation to dance to the buyer's
tune by fixing every little item on what is, at best, a suspect inspction
report.

Seller is free to tell buyer to take a hike and seller has no obligation to
seller's agent for any comission.

You really do operate in a parallel universe don't you bub?
--
Jim McLaughlin

Reply address is deliberately munged.
If you really need to reply directly, try:
jimdotmclaughlinatcomcastdotcom

And you know it is a dotnet not a dotcom
address.

Yeah, great idea. The OP is under contract to buy another house and
you want to raise the asking price to cover repairs like fixing a leaky
tub and water pipe that should have been made years ago.

"Again, there is zero credble evidence that these exist. You are jut
in a
dfferent reality than everybody else -- no, wait, you are a real
estate
agent, right? "

You mean no credible evidence besides the OP stating:

I do have a contingent offer for the house I'm
moving into. So I guess you could say that could fall apart if this
house doesn't sell. So I am kind of in a hurry, but not THAT
desparate!

"Braec of fiduciary duty, breach o duty of undivided loyalty. Its a
snap in
this case "

What breach of fiduciary duty? Are you for real? The realtor produced
a buyer that made an offer which was accepted and that's a breach?
What specifically do you claim was a breach of fiduciary duty?

"There IS NO CONTRACT. What commission was earned? "

You obviously have no experience with real estate. When you list your
property, you sign a listing agreement which runs for a specified
period. If you tell the broker to take a hike, as you suggest, you
better have the right to do that without cause under the listing
agreement. Because otherwise, if you read the listing agreement,
you're likely gonna owe the broker a commission if you sell the house
after you fire the broker before the listing agreement expires.

"There was a potential buyer's offer with contingincies. Seller has
no
obligation to accept that offer, and no obligation to dance to the
buyer's
tune by fixing every little item on what is, at best, a suspect
inspction
report. "

Again you appear to not understand the facts or how real estate
transactions typically take place. The real estate agent produced a
buyer. They made an offer, which THE SELLER ACCEPTED:

She and her son write up an offer that night. First
off, she low balls me 5K off of the asking price, which is fine. I
countered and met her halfway at 267K and she immediately accepted.
She schedules her home inspection immediately, within 24 hours...


"Seller is free to tell buyer to take a hike and seller has no
obligation to
seller's agent for any comission. "

Sure they are. But first they better read the contract they signed
with the buyer that was drawn up when the offer was made and accepted.

"You really do operate in a parallel universe don't you bub?
--
Jim McLaughlin "

No, I've just bought and sold enough properties to know how it works.
And here's how it typically works and from all indications how it
worked in this case. The seller signs a listing agreement with the
broker that specifies under what terms and how long the seller is
giving the real estate agent the listing to find a buyer. The real
estate agent finds a buyer and the buyer makes an offer which the
seller agrees to accept. A contract for sale is drawn up, in this case
it appears it was done that night by the lady and her son. The
contract specifies that there is to be an inspection, paid for by the
buyer, the timeframe allowed, what happens if defects are found, etc.
Both parties sign the contract. Then the buyer pays an inspector to
look the place over. I guess you could be an idiot and do an
inspection without a contract, but since the buyer's son who is a real
estate agent was there , it's pretty likely they have a signed, valid
contract.

The inspector typically finds some issues, which have to be resolved
pursuant to the contract. That's exactly what appears to have happened
here, yet for some reason, the buyer is supposed to be some nefarious,
devious person, just because the inspector found common problems, the
most signficant of which, the seller even knew about.

..