I have a slight problem with the water hookup for my dishwasher. I'll
go over the whole thing. As I say in the programming newsgroups,
describe the entire problem, not just the proposed solution.

The supply pipe comes out of the side of the cabinet and takes a 90
degree bend, so that it's pointing forward (towards the door of the
dishwasher). This pipe is fairly long, and has the standard 3/8 OD
compression connection. When I installed the new dishwasher last year,
I replaced the existing plastic line with steel-mesh "burst-proof".

Due the length of the supply pipe and the radius bend of the steel
line, it seems that it made contact with the frame of the dishwasher
when all the way in. Over the course of the year, the normal vibrations
abraded the line to point of wearing a hole in it. Not good, luckily I
was there when the leak started.

I think this can be solved by coming off the supply pipe at 90 degrees,
so that the dishwasher line connects perpendicular to the pipe instead
of coming straight off it and bending back around.

That brings me to part two of the problem. The water shutoff valve for
the dishwasher isn't closing all the way, it slows it to trickle.
Ideally that should be fixed, but I've never done it and that doesn't
seem like a good one to start with. It's in the undersink cabinet
behind the disposal and among the drain pipes. Limited room to work is
an understatement. A plumber could be hired, of course.

A possible solution to both would be an angle stop valve that connected
to the supply pipe. The problem there is that I haven't found one. Most
of the angle stops are designed to connect to iron pipes and such. The
only stop valve I could find designed to connect directly to a 3/8
compression connection was a straight one. There are ones that accept
compression connections, but none I could find that had a compression
connector "captive nut".

If I scrap the valve idea, I was unable to find anything like an elbow
for this application. They do make tee connectors, "add-a-line" type,
that hook directly to the supply line. I could cap the straight-out
branch and use the angled one.


Any thoughts on what I've described, other avenues to consider, or
details on things I've overlooked or plain don't know about would be
appreciated. If you suggest some other fittings, a web link or enough
detail for me to be able to google it would be helpful.


Brian

"Default User" wrote in message
. 17.102...
I have a slight problem with the water hookup for my dishwasher. I'll
go over the whole thing. As I say in the programming newsgroups,
describe the entire problem, not just the proposed solution.

The supply pipe comes out of the side of the cabinet and takes a 90
degree bend, so that it's pointing forward (towards the door of the
dishwasher). This pipe is fairly long, and has the standard 3/8 OD
compression connection. When I installed the new dishwasher last year,
I replaced the existing plastic line with steel-mesh "burst-proof".

Due the length of the supply pipe and the radius bend of the steel
line, it seems that it made contact with the frame of the dishwasher
when all the way in. Over the course of the year, the normal vibrations
abraded the line to point of wearing a hole in it. Not good, luckily I
was there when the leak started.

I think this can be solved by coming off the supply pipe at 90 degrees,
so that the dishwasher line connects perpendicular to the pipe instead
of coming straight off it and bending back around.

That brings me to part two of the problem. The water shutoff valve for
the dishwasher isn't closing all the way, it slows it to trickle.
Ideally that should be fixed, but I've never done it and that doesn't
seem like a good one to start with. It's in the undersink cabinet
behind the disposal and among the drain pipes. Limited room to work is
an understatement. A plumber could be hired, of course.

A possible solution to both would be an angle stop valve that connected
to the supply pipe. The problem there is that I haven't found one. Most
of the angle stops are designed to connect to iron pipes and such. The
only stop valve I could find designed to connect directly to a 3/8
compression connection was a straight one. There are ones that accept
compression connections, but none I could find that had a compression
connector "captive nut".

If I scrap the valve idea, I was unable to find anything like an elbow
for this application. They do make tee connectors, "add-a-line" type,
that hook directly to the supply line. I could cap the straight-out
branch and use the angled one.


Any thoughts on what I've described, other avenues to consider, or
details on things I've overlooked or plain don't know about would be
appreciated. If you suggest some other fittings, a web link or enough
detail for me to be able to google it would be helpful.


Brian

Hey Brian - I'm not sure I can completely visualize what exactly is your
situation. Anyway, if I can restate the problem, as I understand it, and the
propose the best solution for the problem I have stated. Here goes.

You have a flexible supply line for you dishwasher that failed due to the
routing requirements imposed by the type and position of the supplies
shutoff valve, additionally, your shut-off valve does not completely shut
off the water.

The second part of the problem first - For a drippy valve you usually do not
need to replace the valve. A new washer is all that would be required to fix
that. You still may want to replace the valve. Read on.

If you had a failure of your supply line caused by an awkward valve location
it could be appropriate to replace or move that valve. It may not be as bad
as you imagine. Some valves are threaded on to the copper pipe by means of a
sweat(solder) to pipe type connector. If that's your case, and a different
style valve would work better just unscrew the old and put in a new one. I
suspect you are not so lucky. Your old valve may be soldered to the supply
line. If you have no experience soldering pipes it can be a challenge in a
tight space. If the pipe goes through the floor, into the basement, you may
actually do better breaking the connection in the basement. Making up your
new valve onto your pipe and then making your final connection in the
basement where you have more room. Going this route may give you even more
flexibility as to where to place your shut-off valve for convenience of
connecting your dishwasher.

Back to soldering - If you have never done it before, its not too hard.
There are a few key things. 1st - Dry. The inside of the pipes must be free
of any water. 2nd - clean. You must clean the pipe sections so they are
super shinny, even brand new pieces. 3rd - flux. Flux must be used. 4th -
flame location. The solder will follow the flux toward the heat. heat the
back, apply solder to the front. The joint gets filled. You can solder
upside down once you see how this works. Home Depot near me will give you a
lesson, they will at least cover #3 and 4, #2 if they are decent. They may
forget #1 since they may assume you are working on all new pieces. Buy a
piece of pipe and a bag of fittings and practice. Make some modern art for
you wife.

Good luck, let us know if you have any further questions or want some
clarifications to what I have suggested. Also - Post back as to what you
ended up doing and how it turned out.

"No" wrote in :


Hey Brian - I'm not sure I can completely visualize what exactly
is your situation. Anyway, if I can restate the problem, as I
understand it, and the propose the best solution for the problem I
have stated. Here goes.

You have a flexible supply line for you dishwasher that failed due
to the routing requirements imposed by the type and position of
the supplies shutoff valve, additionally, your shut-off valve does
not completely shut off the water.

Ok, I wasn't completely clear. The routing problem was due to the
supply pipe itself, not the shutoff valve. The valve is under the sink
(the cabinet adjacent to the dishwasher space). The pipe then comes
through that cabinet wall. It's the length of that supply pipe, its
position, the larger bend radius of a steel supply line, and the frame
of that particular dishwasher.

The second part of the problem first - For a drippy valve you
usually do not need to replace the valve. A new washer is all that
would be required to fix that. You still may want to replace the
valve. Read on.

The problem with that is that it's a tight squeeze to even get in to
access the valve. As I haven't repaired a leaky faucet, I doubt this is
a good one to start with, if you see what I mean.

If you had a failure of your supply line caused by an awkward
valve location it could be appropriate to replace or move that
valve.

No, it's not the valve's fault for that. I was trying to come up with a
way to fix both problems in a way that didn't involve me trying to work
in extreme cramped quarters. The shutoff valve is behind the disposal,
next to the sink drain pipe. I'm also not a tiny guy.

I'm a plumbing novice, I'm ok with hooking up these compression
fittings, but have no experience elsewhere. The perils of too much
condo living before this.

Good luck, let us know if you have any further questions or want
some clarifications to what I have suggested. Also - Post back as
to what you ended up doing and how it turned out.

If someone has suggestions on how to come up with something like an
angle stop valve that would hook up to a 3/8 compression fitting, then
I'd try that. Otherwise, the tee connnector will probably be my
solution.


Brian

"Default User" wrote in message
. 17.102...
I have a slight problem with the water hookup for my dishwasher. I'll
go over the whole thing. As I say in the programming newsgroups,
describe the entire problem, not just the proposed solution.

The supply pipe comes out of the side of the cabinet and takes a 90
degree bend, so that it's pointing forward (towards the door of the
dishwasher). This pipe is fairly long, and has the standard 3/8 OD
compression connection. When I installed the new dishwasher last year,
I replaced the existing plastic line with steel-mesh "burst-proof".

Due the length of the supply pipe and the radius bend of the steel
line, it seems that it made contact with the frame of the dishwasher
when all the way in. Over the course of the year, the normal vibrations
abraded the line to point of wearing a hole in it. Not good, luckily I
was there when the leak started.

I think this can be solved by coming off the supply pipe at 90 degrees,
so that the dishwasher line connects perpendicular to the pipe instead
of coming straight off it and bending back around.

That brings me to part two of the problem. The water shutoff valve for
the dishwasher isn't closing all the way, it slows it to trickle.
Ideally that should be fixed, but I've never done it and that doesn't
seem like a good one to start with. It's in the undersink cabinet
behind the disposal and among the drain pipes. Limited room to work is
an understatement. A plumber could be hired, of course.

A possible solution to both would be an angle stop valve that connected
to the supply pipe. The problem there is that I haven't found one. Most
of the angle stops are designed to connect to iron pipes and such. The
only stop valve I could find designed to connect directly to a 3/8
compression connection was a straight one. There are ones that accept
compression connections, but none I could find that had a compression
connector "captive nut".

If I scrap the valve idea, I was unable to find anything like an elbow
for this application. They do make tee connectors, "add-a-line" type,
that hook directly to the supply line. I could cap the straight-out
branch and use the angled one.


Any thoughts on what I've described, other avenues to consider, or
details on things I've overlooked or plain don't know about would be
appreciated. If you suggest some other fittings, a web link or enough
detail for me to be able to google it would be helpful.


Brian

Read both your post above and the follow-up.

You might be able to find what you need at Lowes or HD. A real plumbing
store will have what you need.

I could not visualize the exact layout but I think what you want to do is
elbow off the dishwasher connection point. An angle stop may not be what
you want. Compression fittings are sold in all the standard configurations,
straight, 90 degree elbows. You could even buy two of those dishwasher
hoses and connect them together using a coupler which would double the
length and allow you to route your hose anywhere you like.

I don't recommend trying to replace the cutoff or even repair the washer.
If it was a quarter-turn ball valve it would not be failing. Since it is,
it is most likely a cheap POS that may well break if you mess with it. Turn
the water off at the main entrance, usually located near the water heater.

As more if you like and let us know how it turns out.

Colbyt

"Colbyt" wrote in
news:JC_sf.665910$_o.352880@attbi_s71:


You might be able to find what you need at Lowes or HD. A real
plumbing store will have what you need.

I'm not sure if you dropped a "not" out of the first sentence above.
I've been over what's available at the Lowes/HD.

I could not visualize the exact layout but I think what you want
to do is elbow off the dishwasher connection point.

That's basically correct.

An angle stop
may not be what you want. Compression fittings are sold in all
the standard configurations, straight, 90 degree elbows.

I wasn't successful in finding an elbow that with a captive compression
nut, just the tee connector I mentioned before. That will, I'm sure, do
the job. However my desire was to add a valve there so that I didn't
have to worry about the other shutoff valve.

You
could even buy two of those dishwasher hoses and connect them
together using a coupler which would double the length and allow
you to route your hose anywhere you like.

It's not the length of the dishwasher line that's the problem. It's how
close the end of the main supply is to the frame of the dishwasher.
Because that pipe points directly towards the "guts" of the machine,
the line adds several inches as it curves. It ends up making contact
with the frame somewhere. By coming off at an 90, there's not as much
need for clearance.

At the end of the message, I've place some ASCII art that may help
explain. Non-proportional font required.

I don't recommend trying to replace the cutoff or even repair the
washer. If it was a quarter-turn ball valve it would not be
failing. Since it is, it is most likely a cheap POS that may well
break if you mess with it. Turn the water off at the main
entrance, usually located near the water heater.

I tend to agree, I'd like to have one of those better valves. The easy
point to install for me is right at the end of the supply pipe, which
takes a 3/8 OD compression connector.


Brian


Diagram follows!!



| = walls

* = supply pipe

X = shutoff valve

+ = DW supply line

O = DW input connector

^ = contact with DW frame
^
T = tee connector with one end capped.


EXISTING:

| | |
| ****X******* |
| * | |
| * | |
| * | |
| ++++++ * | |
| + + + | |
| + ++++ | |
| O ^ | |
| ^ | |
| | |
---------------
Dishwasher Sink cabinet



DESIRED:

| | |
| ****X******* |
| * | |
| * | |
| * | |
| ++++++ * | |
| + +++X | |
| + | |
| O ^ | |
| ^ | |
| | |
---------------
Dishwasher Sink cabinet




POSSIBLE:

| | |
| ****X******* |
| * | |
| * | |
| * | |
| ++++++ * | |
| + +++T | |
| + | |
| O ^ | |
| ^ | |
| | |
---------------
Dishwasher Sink cabinet

"Default User" wrote in message
. 17.102...
I have a slight problem with the water hookup for my dishwasher. I'll
go over the whole thing. As I say in the programming newsgroups,
describe the entire problem, not just the proposed solution.

The supply pipe comes out of the side of the cabinet and takes a 90
degree bend, so that it's pointing forward (towards the door of the
dishwasher). This pipe is fairly long, and has the standard 3/8 OD
compression connection. When I installed the new dishwasher last year,
I replaced the existing plastic line with steel-mesh "burst-proof".

Due the length of the supply pipe and the radius bend of the steel
line, it seems that it made contact with the frame of the dishwasher
when all the way in. Over the course of the year, the normal vibrations
abraded the line to point of wearing a hole in it. Not good, luckily I
was there when the leak started.

I think this can be solved by coming off the supply pipe at 90 degrees,
so that the dishwasher line connects perpendicular to the pipe instead
of coming straight off it and bending back around.

That brings me to part two of the problem. The water shutoff valve for
the dishwasher isn't closing all the way, it slows it to trickle.
Ideally that should be fixed, but I've never done it and that doesn't
seem like a good one to start with. It's in the undersink cabinet
behind the disposal and among the drain pipes. Limited room to work is
an understatement. A plumber could be hired, of course.

A possible solution to both would be an angle stop valve that connected
to the supply pipe. The problem there is that I haven't found one. Most
of the angle stops are designed to connect to iron pipes and such. The
only stop valve I could find designed to connect directly to a 3/8
compression connection was a straight one. There are ones that accept
compression connections, but none I could find that had a compression
connector "captive nut".

If I scrap the valve idea, I was unable to find anything like an elbow
for this application. They do make tee connectors, "add-a-line" type,
that hook directly to the supply line. I could cap the straight-out
branch and use the angled one.


Any thoughts on what I've described, other avenues to consider, or
details on things I've overlooked or plain don't know about would be
appreciated. If you suggest some other fittings, a web link or enough
detail for me to be able to google it would be helpful.


Brian

Get rid of the flex tube and the compression fittings. Just solder the
proper pipe and fittings from a new shut-off valve.

Install it correctly and to code. Don't jack-leg it.

Oscar_Lives wrote:

Get rid of the flex tube and the compression fittings. Just solder the
proper pipe and fittings from a new shut-off valve.

Install it correctly and to code. Don't jack-leg it.


I don't think I've explained it correctly to you. The "flex tube" is the
standard braided steel dishwasher line. You have to have this so the
unit can move in and out of its space. You can't access the connection
otherwise. There's no code question here.



Brian

"Default User" wrote in message
. 17.102...
"Colbyt" wrote in
news:JC_sf.665910$_o.352880@attbi_s71:


You might be able to find what you need at Lowes or HD. A real
plumbing store will have what you need.

I'm not sure if you dropped a "not" out of the first sentence above.
I've been over what's available at the Lowes/HD.

I could not visualize the exact layout but I think what you want
to do is elbow off the dishwasher connection point.

That's basically correct.

An angle stop
may not be what you want. Compression fittings are sold in all
the standard configurations, straight, 90 degree elbows.

I wasn't successful in finding an elbow that with a captive compression
nut, just the tee connector I mentioned before. That will, I'm sure, do
the job. However my desire was to add a valve there so that I didn't
have to worry about the other shutoff valve.

You
could even buy two of those dishwasher hoses and connect them
together using a coupler which would double the length and allow
you to route your hose anywhere you like.

It's not the length of the dishwasher line that's the problem. It's how
close the end of the main supply is to the frame of the dishwasher.
Because that pipe points directly towards the "guts" of the machine,
the line adds several inches as it curves. It ends up making contact
with the frame somewhere. By coming off at an 90, there's not as much
need for clearance.

At the end of the message, I've place some ASCII art that may help
explain. Non-proportional font required.

I don't recommend trying to replace the cutoff or even repair the
washer. If it was a quarter-turn ball valve it would not be
failing. Since it is, it is most likely a cheap POS that may well
break if you mess with it. Turn the water off at the main
entrance, usually located near the water heater.

I tend to agree, I'd like to have one of those better valves. The easy
point to install for me is right at the end of the supply pipe, which
takes a 3/8 OD compression connector.


Brian


I have a real hard time following ASCII art.

If I am not mistaken the connection point at the DW is 1/2" ips. All the
hoses that I have seen come with an elbow as in this example:

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?actio...0CU&lpage=none

If yours does not have one, just use short 1/2" nipples and an elbow. I
know this can be bought in brass where the compression fittings are sold but
you can also use galvanized if necessary. You can also use a 1/2" ips x
1/2" ips straight valve (gate or ball) if you really want a cutoff at this
location. To do this coming from the DW you would need 4 short nipples, 1
elbow, one valve and a new hose.

As in DW-nipple-elbow-nipple-valve-nipple-supply hose.

Be sure to buy a small tube of pipe dope if you go the ips route as this
will save you much misery.


Colbyt

Colbyt wrote:
"Default User" wrote in message

At the end of the message, I've place some ASCII art that may help
explain. Non-proportional font required.

I have a real hard time following ASCII art.

If your newsreader doesn't use a non-proportional font, then it's going
to be garbage. Looks good in Thunderbird

If you don't want to mess with the font in your newsreader, then you can
view in Google, link is:

http://groups.google.com/group/alt.home.repair/msg/924eeefb220fca50

In the corner of the page will be: Fixed font - Proportional font. Click
on Fixed font and it should be readable.



If I am not mistaken the connection point at the DW is 1/2" ips. All the
hoses that I have seen come with an elbow as in this example:

Right, but that's the other end of the line. There's no problem there.
I'm concerned where the mesh cable attaches to the supply pipe.

At any rate, what I decided to do was get the 3/8 OD compression tee
connector, and put a compression cap on the branch opposite the captive
nut. See:

http://www.azpartsmaster.com/shopazp/Angle+Stop+Valves+%2D+EZ%2DConnect+Adapter+%287040 %29%2Ehtml

To the right angle branch, I attached a quarter-turn ball valve straight
stop valve, then the dishwasher line to that.



Brian