A petition, by itself, likely would not be legally binding. Florida has
separate statutes for HOA's and condominiums. Also has process for
arbitration, but that is generally for administrative wrongs (board has
not complied with statutes or bylaws), not to take issue with a
particular vote.

I'm in Michigan. The only thing the petition was for was to call a
special meeting, and we followed the guidelines which says this is
allowed in the bylaws.

I agree the board had the legal power to pass the assessment off in the
budget, but a meeting can be called to 1) amend the bylaws (so that
can't raise the budget to whatever they want, for example) or to 2)
recall board members. We haven't even gotten that far.

Having enough signatures to call a special meeting doesn't meet muster
here, as the board still has the authority to vote for maintenance and
repairs, not the association.

Why would that matter? The meeting could be for anything.

You may have enough signatures (members
to vote) to recall board members, and a new board could then vote down
the project (unless contracts already signed).

That's the plan. The contract is not yet signed.

In Florida, the members
have to vote if there is a material alteration to the common areas -
like installing a new pool - but repairing existing roads would not seem
to be a material alteration. Read your documents. Members can always
sue here, but in FL the loser pays costs.

I'm in Michigan, and have had trouble finding laws regarding my state.

"Larry Bud" wrote in message
oups.com...

Larry Bud wrote:
Larry Bud wrote:
Got a letter today from the VP of the Management for our site condos
today. Almost every year we have to patch about 1/2 mile or so of
road
from pot holes. The roads are not heavily travelled, and only used by
our sub, and while the pot holes were a nuisance, the road is only 15
mph.

The letter states that the board had conferred with several asphalt
contrators who have concluded that the road was "originally installed
an an incorrect pitch with much of the base comprised of grey wet
clay". The board had decided to tear out a good portion of the road,
and the estimated cost was $225,000. Our dues are to go up from
$75/month to almost $300 from jan to apr, then back down to $80 after
that.

Just a follow up to this as I get more info:

We have started a petition to 1) oppose the increase, 2) call a
special meeting (we actually need a certain % of signatures to do this
and 3) remove the president of the board.

Update on this, and advice needed:

Enough people complained for them to only raise dues from $75 to $130.
We still, however, want to call a special meeting.

We have gathered enough sigs to call a special meeting, but the board
and management company has refused. They claim that the petition was
not binding. In addition, one of the board members have told the
others on the board (there are 4 total, there is 1 opening that they
have failed to fill) that he signed the petition. They claim that he's
in conflict of interest (he IS a co-owner), and they've scared him
enough to back down on wanting his name on the peition. He's afraid of
a lawsuit.

What do we do next short of hiring a lawyer (or getting the hell out of
here) when it's clearly spelled out in the by-laws what is required for
a special meeting?

There is election in April, so maybe we just should wait until then and
try to run and get on the board, assuming elections they hold are fair
(I wouldn't put it past them that they aren't).

What do the state statutes say?

I live in Arizona, I was on an HOA board for 6 months. Arizona law says that
the HOA board can raise the dues in any calendar year 20 % with out home
owner participation. The board decided to ignore run away costs even when
there were proposals to cut and control the costs. Cost $5k a month to mow
the lawn and dress the landscaping. And the water bill was $6k a month
through the summer months. The management company employed by my ex
residence spends a lot of money training the board member on how to become
brain washed into their thinking. They see nothing wrong with a 20% forever
increase in dues. It keeps the property values up, which it does.

Find out what the statutes are follow them. Look at the last two years
financial statements. Look for something like a "legal fund". If there is
over $100,000.00 in that line item you better find an attorney, cause they
are ready to fight. Where I lived there was less than $20k in the legal
fund. Not so interested in fighting. Importunely your likely to find the
board is mere puppets for the management company. Where I lived 20% of the
220 homes were having trouble paying the dues. 7% were more than $500 in the
rear, that is more than a year. I protested the 20% and was told by the pres
and the others that the costs would force out the people who could not pay
and get ones that could. Unfortunely the tables turned on them, the people
like me that sold the new owners made them rentals.
Rentals were less than 6% when I bought in, more than 12% a year later.

God bless, cross the "i's" and dot the "t's". Perfect is acceptable, you
have a very bumpy road ahead. Make no mistake the management company will
fight you with your own money.

There is election in April, so maybe we just should wait until then and
try to run and get on the board, assuming elections they hold are fair
(I wouldn't put it past them that they aren't).

What do the state statutes say?

I don't know yet. They're very long and I haven't had time to go over
them.

Find out what the statutes are follow them. Look at the last two years
financial statements. Look for something like a "legal fund". If there is
over $100,000.00 in that line item you better find an attorney, cause they
are ready to fight.

Good news, they only spent $1100 last year. I do think that they are
just puppets of the management company.

God bless, cross the "i's" and dot the "t's". Perfect is acceptable, you
have a very bumpy road ahead. Make no mistake the management company will
fight you with your own money.

Thanks, I believe it.

Larry Bud wrote:
A petition, by itself, likely would not be legally binding. Florida has
separate statutes for HOA's and condominiums. Also has process for
arbitration, but that is generally for administrative wrongs (board has
not complied with statutes or bylaws), not to take issue with a
particular vote.


I'm in Michigan. The only thing the petition was for was to call a
special meeting, and we followed the guidelines which says this is
allowed in the bylaws.

I agree the board had the legal power to pass the assessment off in the
budget, but a meeting can be called to 1) amend the bylaws (so that
can't raise the budget to whatever they want, for example) or to 2)
recall board members. We haven't even gotten that far.


Having enough signatures to call a special meeting doesn't meet muster
here, as the board still has the authority to vote for maintenance and
repairs, not the association.


Why would that matter? The meeting could be for anything.

The point I tried to make is that a petition is probably irrelevant to
the legal process for the meeting. The petition publicizes the issue,
and the signatures tell you who supports your plan. The actual meeting
- if you were in Florida - has to be announced in a particular format,
including agenda items, and the notice has to be given a minimum time
(two weeks?) prior to the meeting. Recall of board members may also
require votes of more than a majority of owners, allow or disallow
proxies, etc.



You may have enough signatures (members
to vote) to recall board members, and a new board could then vote down
the project (unless contracts already signed).


That's the plan. The contract is not yet signed.

Just on the face of what you have written, and not having seen the
place, I would be inclined to bite the bullet and go with the repairs
vs. buying into a divisive issue and bad blood for years. That opinion
formed by living with deadbeats who own million dollar boats but would
let the condo fall down around them rather than make needed and
appropriate repairs. I also have the experience of being assaulted by a
loonie board member who perceives board membership as a license to do
anything to anyone. If you have a close split and a bunch that doesn't
want to spend money on anything, you may wind up 1. on the board, 2.
having owners attracted who do not want to maintain the place and run it
into the ground. Our assn. has about half who don't want to do
anything, has had speculators come in, get on the board, vote for their
cronies and flip the property for more than 100% profit. The owners who
give a damn wind up doing roof repairs themselves. I kid you not! Good
luck.


In Florida, the members
have to vote if there is a material alteration to the common areas -
like installing a new pool - but repairing existing roads would not seem
to be a material alteration. Read your documents. Members can always
sue here, but in FL the loser pays costs.


I'm in Michigan, and have had trouble finding laws regarding my state.


I looked around a bit on the Michigan.gov website, and found a statute
pertaining to condominiums but not one specific for HOA's, he
http://www.legislature.mi.gov/(ymq2b245wmcmey45iwgkqya2)/mileg.aspx?page=chapterindex

Your documents might refer to a specific statute.......have fun )

Just on the face of what you have written, and not having seen the
place, I would be inclined to bite the bullet and go with the repairs
vs. buying into a divisive issue and bad blood for years. That opinion
formed by living with deadbeats who own million dollar boats but would
let the condo fall down around them rather than make needed and
appropriate repairs. I also have the experience of being assaulted by a
loonie board member who perceives board membership as a license to do
anything to anyone. If you have a close split and a bunch that doesn't
want to spend money on anything, you may wind up 1. on the board, 2.
having owners attracted who do not want to maintain the place and run it
into the ground. Our assn. has about half who don't want to do
anything, has had speculators come in, get on the board, vote for their
cronies and flip the property for more than 100% profit. The owners who
give a damn wind up doing roof repairs themselves. I kid you not! Good
luck.

Just to clarify, these are site condos, and the only common property
are the roads and a few strip of grass here and there. Each person is
reponsible for maintaining their own house.

Where I live, there are two boards. The first one is the HOA board,
which is responsible for doing little things like the annual block
party, etc., and they get the proceeds from the annual HOA dues to fund
their budget.

The second is the board of Trustees for the SID (Sanitary Improvement
District), and they are responsible for things such as streets, sewers,
parks, etc. Their vastly larger budget comes in the form of property
tax levies.


This probably varies in your area, but just thought I'd mention it so
you don't go shouting at the wrong folks.