I recently bought a house with an older gas furnace (probably 15 years
old, nameplates have been mostly painted over). Recently discovered
that the blower will no longer start up on its own, and have had the
capacitor tested - it tested ok. So... I happen to have a home
warranty left over from the purchase and I called to have the furnace
repaired (it is covered under the warranty). Unfortunately, I have no
say in the technician/company who services my furnace - it is chosen by

the warranty company for me. The guy comes out, my wife is there to
let him in, I showed up from work about 10 minutes later. When I got
there, he was in the process of trying a new capacitor (didn't work)
and then decided that the blower motor needs replacement. I took the
opportunity to mention that I had seen a lot of LARGE rust flakes piled

on top of the burners (almost to the point of completely covering
several of the burners). I asked did he check the heat exchanger for
holes? He replied that he hadn't seen any holes in it but that he
would check for CO coming from the upstairs registers once the new
blower motor was installed. He also mentioned that the burner chamber
needed to be cleaned out and that wasn't covered by the warranty,
nor was it included in his or his company's job duties. I later asked
my wife how he inspected the heat exchanger (ie. did he use a camera,
mirror, what?). She replied that he didn't do anything more than what
I had seen him do when I got there (nothing). We will be called once
the
motor is ordered and received to schedule the next appointment. This
is
not an emergency for us, since we're currently living elsewhere while
we
do some rennovating.


So, I'm thinking, though I don't have any inspection mirrors or
cameras, those large (when I say large, I'm thinking they look to be a
few inches across and about 1/8" or thicker) flakes of rust coupled
with the fact that someone has done a less-than-classy installation of
an A/C coil in the plenum above the furnace means I have problems.
Anyone have any ideas here? I don't want this thing to "pass" some
half-a$$ed test by bubba the technician only to fail later on after my
warranty has expired.

also - appologies to any ruffled feathers/offended HVAC folks who might
not
have appreciated my posting to "their" special group. I didn't realize
it
was a "He-Man-Homeowner-Haters" club for professionals only.

"louie" wrote in message
oups.com...
I recently bought a house with an older gas furnace (probably 15 years
old, nameplates have been mostly painted over). Recently discovered

Big Snip

I don't want this thing to "pass" some
half-a$$ed test by bubba the technician only to fail later on after my
warranty has expired.

also - appologies to any ruffled feathers/offended HVAC folks who might
not
have appreciated my posting to "their" special group. I didn't realize
it
was a "He-Man-Homeowner-Haters" club for professionals only.

Funny thing, the people that complain and moan over there don't seem to
realize that usenet is open to the public. It's an unmoderated group. They
need to grow up.

HeatMan wrote:

"louie" wrote in message
oups.com...

I recently bought a house with an older gas furnace (probably 15 years
old, nameplates have been mostly painted over). Recently discovered


Big Snip


I don't want this thing to "pass" some
half-a$$ed test by bubba the technician only to fail later on after my
warranty has expired.

also - appologies to any ruffled feathers/offended HVAC folks who might
not
have appreciated my posting to "their" special group. I didn't realize
it
was a "He-Man-Homeowner-Haters" club for professionals only.


Funny thing, the people that complain and moan over there don't seem to
realize that usenet is open to the public. It's an unmoderated group. They
need to grow up.



I doubt they'll ever grow up. They've pretty much killed the group's
usefulness.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

"louie" wrote in message
oups.com...
I So... I happen to have a home
warranty left over from the purchase and I called to have the furnace
repaired (it is covered under the warranty).

That is not necessarily a good thing.




So, I'm thinking, though I don't have any inspection mirrors or
cameras,

You can buy a mirror on a stick for about $5. A good light and some poking
around will tell you a lot.



also - appologies to any ruffled feathers/offended HVAC folks who might
not
have appreciated my posting to "their" special group. I didn't realize
it
was a "He-Man-Homeowner-Haters" club for professionals only.

Yeah, a couple of ignoramuses there think they control USENET. Probably
afraid to teach others as they may lose a service call.

Perhaps your local gas utility could do a safety inspection (CO) of the
gas furnace and express an opinion.

a google search found a nice checklist of things to do at:
http://www.misterfix-it.com/Solutions/5Air.html

"Service requirements for older furnaces
If your warm air furnace is old (say, 20 years or older), I suggest you
have a professional heating contractor servi ce it every year. This is
your best protection against carbon monoxide dangers and heating
problems. Routine service will also ensure peak efficiency to save you
operating costs.
A good service and inspection costs about $80 and should include a
complete cleaning, safety check, and tuning. The service contractor
should:


clean the burner and heat exchanger, and inspect for cracks.
remove the burners, clean them, and tune for proper combustion.
perform a carbon monoxide test in the heat exchanger.
check the vent pipe and draft diverter.
inspect the chimney for obstructions and draft.
check vent pipes for proper clearance and materials.
test fan controls and safety controls.
check the thermostat.
run the furnace through a complete cycle.
check flame roll-out.
check gas pressure (if appropriate for your furnace).
clean and adjust the pilot light assembly.
inspect gas fittings and repair any leaks.
lubricate the fan and motor.
check belt condition and tension.
service the filter.
clean the fan and housing if excessive dirt has accumulated.
Replacing parts or cle aning extensively will cost extra.
You should have a basic understanding of how the system works, so ask
the service contractor to explain the basics. You should routinely
service the filter and lubricate the fan and motor a second time during
the heating season. You should also inspect the flue connection to the
chimney. "

http://www.misterfix-it.com/Solutions/5Air.html

it is important to see that there is actually a poster named bubba in
the hvac group who is quite full of knowledge and humor.

"buffalobill" wrote

it is important to see that there is actually a poster named bubba in
the hvac group who is quite full of knowledge and humor.


In my best Jeff Spicoli voice from "Fast Times at Ridgemont High"


"Bubba??!! That guy's a FAG!!!!!!"


;-]

On 1 Dec 2005 00:34:50 -0800, "buffalobill"
wrote:

it is important to see that there is actually a poster named bubba in
the hvac group who is quite full of knowledge and humor.

I am Not! :-)
Bubba

LOL, no offense meant to guys with that name, or to HVAC technicians in
general. I just have not been impressed with the particular fellow who
showed up at my house the other day.

Update:

I shut off the gas supply to the furnace and removed the burner
assembly. It consists of five burners, the middle one is so badly
corroded that the "tab" on the end of the burner that fits into a slot
on the inside of the chamber stayed in the slot while the burner came
out. About 2 or 3 inches of that particular burner has deteriorated
and flaked off, leaving the end of the burner open. I shop-vac'ed out
the rust flakes from the burner chamber and inspected with a flashlight
(will have to get a mirror tonight). I also started up the circulation
blower (still does not start without a little push) and felt inside the
burner chamber. I CAN feel air moving in there in a couple of spots
(mainly near the opening of the burner chamber - just above the opening
at what feels like a seam in a couple of places), and I can also feel
air moving where the vent pipe connects at the top. It's not a lot of
air, but it's definitely noticeable. Maybe it's nothing to be
concerned about, but if everything I've read is correct, you really
don't want combustion gases and circulation air mixing together. Also,
in all my years as mechanical engineer, I have yet to hear about a
crack or corrosion hole spontaneously shrinking. Thanks for the info
so far. I like the idea of contacting the gas utility. I think I may
give my favorite service guy a chance to fix it right first, then have
a safety inspection done afterwards just to double-check.

Get a digital read out Co meter apx 40$ , check peak level often.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Get a digital read out Co meter apx 40$ , check peak level often.

Where are you going to find a decent CO tester for $40? Not at HD...

well, HD does sell a digital readout CO tester for approximately $40.
I can't say if it's decent or not...

Where are you going to find a decent CO tester for $40? Not at HD...


Pet store.

Several decent makes go for apx 40$ Nighthawk. Kidd. First aler.t

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Several decent makes go for apx 40$ Nighthawk. Kidd. First aler.t


Man..thats a POS. Period.

A barely decent (UEI, Fluke) CO detector runs min $199.
A good one...Bacharach...closer to $500.

You dont get jack for $40 but a false sense of security...thats a CO ALARM
you are looking at...not a DETECTOR.
While an alarm detects, it is NOT the same...not even in the same ballpark.

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Several decent makes go for apx 40$ Nighthawk. Kidd. First aler.t

Right. And those do meet UL2039 Standard. IIRC, that's 50PPM of CO for 30
minutes? Brain damage territory....

Read my first post it says " check Peak level often"

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Read my first post it says " check Peak level often"


Its still a stupid idea to trust an ALARM for a dectector.

Further update: The service guy returned with a new blower motor, went
down to the basement, took one look at the burners that I had removed
for cleaning and said: "Ok, I'm condemning the whole unit, I should
have taken the burners out last time I was here and looked at them and
the heat exchanger." It looks like the warranty company will honor the
contract we have and will probably do so by paying us a cash amount to
replace the furnace. We'll likely have to add some of our own money to
upgrade that, since I suspect this furnace is less than 80% efficient
(again, most of the tags and model information has been painted over
and isn't readable).

Anyhow, thanks for the helpful replies and discussion on this. Just
thought I'd leave a feedback post, since it's been mentioned before
that most OP's don't bother to do that. Thanks again!

Call the gas company out to confirm the condeming

"m Ransley" wrote in message
...
Call the gas company out to confirm the condeming


LOL...yea..sure..

I'm not an HVAC expert, but there's not much question about it. The
slightest disturbance to the furnace causes LARGE flakes of rust to
rain down inside the heat exchanger despite repeated cleaning. One
burner is missing about 3 inches at the tip from corrosion, another is
falling apart in the same manner though not quite as bad. When running
the blower, I can feel air moving through the heat exchanger (with the
burners removed). The blower motor has a bad starter winding. The
laundry list is pretty high on this furnace. I'm not sure that the gas
utility does the inspections, though it sounded like a good idea at
first.

Thanks again to everyone who posted with suggestions and ideas. I
guess whether the warranty company honors this claim or not, I'll have
to replace the furnace. It's not all bad, it gives me a chance to put
something better than this oversized, inefficient, unfiltered unit in
there.

I hope you have a good Co alarm

I do, but the house is also unoccupied at the moment as we do some
fairly extensive rennovations, gas and power to the furnace are shut
off.