So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.

Tony wrote:

So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.

I can think of no reason whatsoever.

I suspect (strongly) they're trying to steer you towards their brands
because their markups are higher. If you intend to continue dealing w/
them as a vendor, your service will probably be marginally cheaper in
the long run if you stay w/ a brand they represent.

Assuming the others are also competent (devil you know vs the one you
don't?), if you want a Rheem specifically might be worth switching...

"Tony" wrote in message
...
So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are
designed for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development;
there are about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the
same fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes).
He said that they have had much better results using Lennox in our
neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.


Every time I call the local Guitar Center to see if they have something in
stock, they ask for my phone number "So I can make sure you're taken care of
properly when you get here". Same line every time. Sounds similar to the
"best furnace for your neighborhood" concept.

I suspect maybe they have lots of Lennox & Trane AC units left over and they
don't want to keep them around all winter. If you like the service, let them
have their foibles and stay with the company.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
: So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house
to quote
: replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is
the one that
: currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for
that. I asked
: the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most
in my
: neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are
qualified to
: install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against
it. When I
: asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but
they've found
: after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas
furnace
: design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems
are designed
: for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development;
there are
: about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the
same
: fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting
goes). He said
: that they have had much better results using Lennox in our
neighborhood.
:
: Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout,
etc, in a
: home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's
design) of a gas
: furnace may work better than another?
:
: BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time
and most of
: their installers are NATE qualified.
:
:
Why don't you ask them for the details that make that so? See
what their answers are. If you're a longtime customer they
should want to please you. If they end up lying or getting
caught in a lie, well, that's an indicator. One lie can ruin
years of loyalty and credibility by exposing their "now"
attitude, not yesterday's.

HTH,
PopS

"Tony" wrote in message

I asked if they are qualified to install Rheem if I wanted it. He said
yes, but advised against it. When I asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does
make nice stuff, but they've found after doing a lot of work in my
neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace design does not "work as well"
with the way the ducting systems are designed for our types of houses (I
live in a neighborhood development; there are about 7 different basic home
styles but they all have much the same fundamental lay out as far as the
heating / cooling / ducting goes). He said that they have had much better
results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Possible? Sure. Probable? I'd want some specifics. Perhaps the blower
size or something is different, the plenum size is not easy to match,
whatever. If he made a statement, he should be able to back it up with
facts.

At the same time, point out why you prefer the other brand and let him give
reasons why that would not be better.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are
designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He
said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.

It just sounds like a line of crap. Most the units work on the same
principles. I have never heard anything about ducting for a house to
determine what brand. The size of the house is the main factor. I go by the
golden rule and get about 3+ bids. Sometimes change is good and if I was fed
that line I would be changing. They probably don't do allot of business with
Rheem and don't get a good price from them, that sounds more like it.

"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

"Tony" wrote in message

I asked if they are qualified to install Rheem if I wanted it. He said
yes, but advised against it. When I asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud
does make nice stuff, but they've found after doing a lot of work in my
neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace design does not "work as well"
with the way the ducting systems are designed for our types of houses (I
live in a neighborhood development; there are about 7 different basic
home styles but they all have much the same fundamental lay out as far as
the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He said that they have had much
better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Possible? Sure. Probable? I'd want some specifics. Perhaps the blower
size or something is different, the plenum size is not easy to match,
whatever. If he made a statement, he should be able to back it up with
facts.

At the same time, point out why you prefer the other brand and let him
give reasons why that would not be better.


Thanks to all. I was sort of feeling that there may be some baloney involved
here. We have an appointment to have them come over this week. When the guy
gets here I'll be asking for specifics. What is nice is that they are
prepared to give me references for both their Lennox installs and the couple
of Rheems they've done in my neighborhood.

"Duane Bozarth" wrote in message
...
Tony wrote:

So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one
that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I
asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are
designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He
said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a
gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most
of
their installers are NATE qualified.

I can think of no reason whatsoever.

I suspect (strongly) they're trying to steer you towards their brands
because their markups are higher. If you intend to continue dealing w/
them as a vendor, your service will probably be marginally cheaper in
the long run if you stay w/ a brand they represent.

Assuming the others are also competent (devil you know vs the one you
don't?), if you want a Rheem specifically might be worth switching...

They do admit that Lennox is the primary brand they deal with.

"Tony" wrote in message
...
So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are
designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He
said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.

Naming companies is not really a comparison. Like Ford and GM. The
contractors should be doing the manual calculations and tell you a model
number so you could check the specs on that unit.

Tony wrote:
So I'm having three HVAC / heater companies come into my house to quote
replacement of my AC and gas furnace. One of the companies is the one that
currently does our service. We've been pleased with them for that. I asked
the sales guy over the phone which products they use the most in my
neighborhood. He said Lennox and Trane. I asked if they are qualified to
install Rheem if I wanted it. He said yes, but advised against it. When I
asked why he said that Rheem/Ruud does make nice stuff, but they've found
after doing a lot of work in my neighborhood that the Rheem gas furnace
design does not "work as well" with the way the ducting systems are designed
for our types of houses (I live in a neighborhood development; there are
about 7 different basic home styles but they all have much the same
fundamental lay out as far as the heating / cooling / ducting goes). He said
that they have had much better results using Lennox in our neighborhood.

Is there any truth to whether the nature of the ducting layout, etc, in a
home will suggest that one brand (or really one company's design) of a gas
furnace may work better than another?

BTW, this heating company has been around for a very long time and most of
their installers are NATE qualified.



Heh, heh, heh....

Ask them how the air (heated or cooled) that is forced into
the duct system is different with their Lennox unit that makes
the Lennox so much better. Is it higher pressure, is the air
straightened out by the Lennox? Perhaps the air from the
Lennox is more pliable, therefore makes the turns better.
Maybe the Lennox unit actually lubricates the air so that it
will slide more easily through the duct system.

Gotta admit that is a good line, though.

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Gee Robert,

I sell Lennox and Trane too. I have found their blowers are usually
more powerful than Goodman and some other lower priced brands. When I
do a survey for replacing equipment, I always measure the air flow with
a capture hood. Half the systems I measure have air flows of 200 CFM
per ton OR LESS! Should be 350 to 400 CFM per ton! So a more powerful
blower would be a plus for me! I do very little with Rheem, so I don't
know their blower capacities, but if the company in question actually
measures air flow they may be telling the truth. If there is access to
replace the ducts, it may not matter, but it would probably less
expensive to use a furnace with a more powerful blower to do the job.

My company of three people just bought our second capture hood, a TSI
Accu-Balance for $2,000.00. That price may be why many people don't
measure air flow. Those who do measure air flow have different ideas
about the quality of different brands than other contractors. No, the
different brands ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! An otherwise well installed
unit with a wimpy blower will still perform poorly. I see it all the
time.

How many contractors do you know that actually measure air flow on
every system they install. There are over 100 HVAC contractors in my
area, and I only know of two of them besides us that do measure air
flow!

Stretch

Stretch wrote:
Gee Robert,

I sell Lennox and Trane too. I have found their blowers are usually
more powerful than Goodman and some other lower priced brands. When I
do a survey for replacing equipment, I always measure the air flow with
a capture hood. Half the systems I measure have air flows of 200 CFM
per ton OR LESS! Should be 350 to 400 CFM per ton! So a more powerful
blower would be a plus for me! I do very little with Rheem, so I don't
know their blower capacities, but if the company in question actually
measures air flow they may be telling the truth. If there is access to
replace the ducts, it may not matter, but it would probably less
expensive to use a furnace with a more powerful blower to do the job.

My company of three people just bought our second capture hood, a TSI
Accu-Balance for $2,000.00. That price may be why many people don't
measure air flow. Those who do measure air flow have different ideas
about the quality of different brands than other contractors. No, the
different brands ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! An otherwise well installed
unit with a wimpy blower will still perform poorly. I see it all the
time.

How many contractors do you know that actually measure air flow on
every system they install. There are over 100 HVAC contractors in my
area, and I only know of two of them besides us that do measure air
flow!

Stretch


So are you saying that a Lennox unit with 350 CFM will do
better than a Rheem with a 350 CFM (both measured)? Or are
you saying that the L unit will have 350 and the R will have less?

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

"Robert Allison" wrote in message
news:1GlZe.1080$qC4.59@trnddc02...
Stretch wrote:
Gee Robert,

I sell Lennox and Trane too. I have found their blowers are usually
more powerful than Goodman and some other lower priced brands. When I
do a survey for replacing equipment, I always measure the air flow with
a capture hood. Half the systems I measure have air flows of 200 CFM
per ton OR LESS! Should be 350 to 400 CFM per ton! So a more powerful
blower would be a plus for me! I do very little with Rheem, so I don't
know their blower capacities, but if the company in question actually
measures air flow they may be telling the truth. If there is access to
replace the ducts, it may not matter, but it would probably less
expensive to use a furnace with a more powerful blower to do the job.

My company of three people just bought our second capture hood, a TSI
Accu-Balance for $2,000.00. That price may be why many people don't
measure air flow. Those who do measure air flow have different ideas
about the quality of different brands than other contractors. No, the
different brands ARE NOT ALL THE SAME! An otherwise well installed
unit with a wimpy blower will still perform poorly. I see it all the
time.

How many contractors do you know that actually measure air flow on
every system they install. There are over 100 HVAC contractors in my
area, and I only know of two of them besides us that do measure air
flow!

Stretch


So are you saying that a Lennox unit with 350 CFM will do better than a
Rheem with a 350 CFM (both measured)? Or are you saying that the L unit
will have 350 and the R will have less?

He said he didn't know what the Rheem would do. No claims made.

I am saying that a Lennox will provide more air flow than the Goodman
andf most other brands of the same nominal size. I am not as sure
about Rheem because I do not deal with many of them, but the last time
I did, it had low air flow. I am not sure if that was the duct
system's fault or the equipment's fault, the customer did not pay me to
go that far. Additional testing would have determined the reason for
the problem.

It is possible the Rheem has a less powerfull blower. Checking their
engineering manuals against Lennox engineering manuals would tell.
Just to dismiss the statement that Lennox is better as bunk and say all
equipment is the same is unjustified. I sell Lennox and Trane, because
over time, they have performed better for me. Cheaper brands are
cheaper because less is put into them. Less metal (lighter cabinets
and coil fins); less engineering, less safety factor in the design,
less powerful blowers, less quiet,etc. I have found the higher priced
stuff lasts about 5 years longer in my area than the cheaper stuff. So
the price per year is usually less.

The same goes for the installer. The cheap guys usually do a sloppy
job. (But I must admit, some of the high priced guys do a sloppy job
too). I just feel the Lennox is generally better than Rheem. The
Rheem is better than some other stuff.

There was a lady from upstate NY who asked questions about Rheem and
Carrier on this forum. The Carrier system was more money, but her
husband pushed her toward the Rheem. That is what she got. The Rheem
was noisy and they had poor air flow in some rooms. She regretted it.
I conversed with her by email for a while off the group, based on that,
I would say go with the Lennox. Rheem isOK, Lennox is better.

Stretch

Stretch wrote:
I am saying that a Lennox will provide more air flow than the Goodman
andf most other brands of the same nominal size. I am not as sure
about Rheem because I do not deal with many of them, but the last time
I did, it had low air flow. I am not sure if that was the duct
system's fault or the equipment's fault, the customer did not pay me to
go that far. Additional testing would have determined the reason for
the problem.

It is possible the Rheem has a less powerfull blower. Checking their
engineering manuals against Lennox engineering manuals would tell.
Just to dismiss the statement that Lennox is better as bunk and say all
equipment is the same is unjustified. I sell Lennox and Trane, because
over time, they have performed better for me. Cheaper brands are
cheaper because less is put into them. Less metal (lighter cabinets
and coil fins); less engineering, less safety factor in the design,
less powerful blowers, less quiet,etc. I have found the higher priced
stuff lasts about 5 years longer in my area than the cheaper stuff. So
the price per year is usually less.

I am not saying that one brand may not be better than others.
I am saying that a duct system will perform the same if the
air is being pushed through it at the same rate regardless if
it is a Rheem, Ruud, Goodman, Carrier, Lennox, etc. Duct
systems do not require a certain brand of unit.

But it is a damn good line to use for the uninitiated if you
are pushing a brand name. (And if you are into misleading
your customers).

The same goes for the installer. The cheap guys usually do a sloppy
job. (But I must admit, some of the high priced guys do a sloppy job
too). I just feel the Lennox is generally better than Rheem. The
Rheem is better than some other stuff.

There was a lady from upstate NY who asked questions about Rheem and
Carrier on this forum. The Carrier system was more money, but her
husband pushed her toward the Rheem. That is what she got. The Rheem
was noisy and they had poor air flow in some rooms. She regretted it.
I conversed with her by email for a while off the group, based on that,
I would say go with the Lennox. Rheem isOK, Lennox is better.

Stretch


What you say makes a lot of sense, but that is not what the OP
asked. Reread his post and you will see that my response
makes sense.

If his HVAC contractor had said that this unit has a higher
CFM and will perform better, I would accept that, but I will
not accept that a brand will perform better due to the duct
system. (Even though that may actually be the case.)

--
Robert Allison
Rimshot, Inc.
Georgetown, TX

Seriously, when your bull**** detector beeps, listen to it.