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#81
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"jo4hn" wrote in message ... Dr. Hardcrab wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ;-] Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee. OK, I know robin hartl's butt quite well but who is mr lee? |
#82
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote:
Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. You had a shot up until the "unwanted government interference". There is nothing that can be built to stand up or resist that. +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#83
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:27:47 -0500, zxcvbob wrote:
Chris wrote: Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years ago. Wonder if the meat was still good? How did the narrator know that? Easy, he counted the rings. ;-) -Bob +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ If you're gonna be dumb, you better be tough +--------------------------------------------------------------------------------+ |
#84
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"Mark & Juanita" wrote
"Nehmo" wrote: Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. You had a shot up until the "unwanted government interference". There is nothing that can be built to stand up or resist that. So true. wry grin |
#85
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Thanks for that. Best laugh I've had all day.
"Robatoy" wrote in message ... I'd drill the little ****er that went "WEE WEE WEE" all the way home... |
#86
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And what percentage of the British population actually own homes? Roughly 70%. http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=821 Why? |
#87
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"Nehmo" wrote in message
... Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies. And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if necessary. How should this house be built and what should it have? -- |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| Don't live there, don't build there. You're an idiot if you do. |
#88
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Adam Weiss wrote: Charlie Self wrote: Adam Weiss wrote: 2: The dutch have designed well for slow rising water. They've built houses that float. Not house boats, mind you. These homes have floating concrete foundations that will rise and fall with rising water levels. (I knew that thesis I heard of where a stoner physics student designd and floated a concrete boat and got credit for it would have some use somewhere, but I digress). The English were using concrete boats in 1910 or so, and a Frenchman patented a wire reinforced concrete boat in 1847. It wasn't exactly a stoner physic student's brainstorm. I didn't know that. But here it is, all online and easily accessed for those too lazy to do real research in a library: http://www.concreteships.org/history/ Very interesting and thanks. You're welcome. One of the benefits of reading Popular Mechanics as a kid 50 years ago. |
#89
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Easy.... Find a Mountain in the Rockies build a deep shaft........ Building
in New Orleans disregards your own concerns. You can't account for all the possibilities of a Hurricane it's to independent and random, best you can do is work from historical data. By it's own design if a storm impacted the area, you would become an oasis, and if offering no assistance most likely you will simply be destroyed using most readily a flammable liquid. I see you account for your own failure? And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if necessary. I'd say the best would be a hot air balloon.................. "Nehmo" wrote in message ... Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies. And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if necessary. How should this house be built and what should it have? -- |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| |
#90
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Since everybody for the most part overlooked the obvious........ I'd say it
may stand, just nothing at home upstairs! "Nehmo" wrote in message ... Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies. And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if necessary. How should this house be built and what should it have? -- |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| |
#91
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Dr. Hardcrab wrote:
"Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ^^^^ I think you wrote it above! :-) |
#92
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"Lil' Dave" wrote
"Nehmo" wrote How should this house be built and what should it have? Don't live there, don't build there. You're an idiot if you do. Then there's 1/2 a million idiots living rather well here in the target zone of Lee County, Florida. You can look at history and become smarter for it, or you can go on USENET and blindly swing pointed sticks. |
#93
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"Robatoy" wrote in message ... I'd drill the little ****er that went "WEE WEE WEE" all the way home... You mean you'd "pork" him? -- "New Wave" Dave In Houston |
#94
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Nehmo wrote:
How should this house be built and what should it have? There's a big clue whenever you see news shots of the flooded city. What structures are still standing, almost completely untouched? The big apartment buildings. Just build multistory buildings, and put all essential building utilities on the second floor or higher. Let the bottom floor have only easily repaired interiors and utilities. Connect the second floors of the buildings using a system of walkways just like in Minneapolis. You could even build the walkways open air, using the wrought iron balcony style popular for Mardi Gras in New Orleans. This would make the city a fun place to visit. Essentially this is the "house on stilts" idea but on a big enough scale you could house a population of 500,000 in a densely populated area. For car storage some buildings would use the lower 3 or 4 stories for car parks. Again, visit Minneapolis to see this sort of structure. You'd need fewer cars since this would be a densely populated area with lots of people able to walk to work. This is the future. Of course, this doesn't fit in with the real estate agent / developer scenaria where every American is isolated on his own lot with 2 acres of grass to mow every weekend. That's going to prove economically non-viable when fuel prices rise, anyway. Max |
#95
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"MaxChunk" wrote
This is the future. Might be your future but I'll have no part of it, thanks. Of course, this doesn't fit in with the real estate agent / developer scenaria where every American is isolated on his own lot with 2 acres of grass to mow every weekend. And then there's the millions of regular persons that want their own space, to do with as they choose. That's going to prove economically non-viable when fuel prices rise, anyway. Cows have been keeping grasses closely trimmed for millenia, AND they afford some payback! (I'm not particularly fond of all that motorized lawn maintenance in the first place) ;-) |
#96
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Upscale wrote:
"Nehmo" wrote in message How should this house be built and what should it have? A $10,000,000 budget. This is already provided, Joe Taxpayer is footing the bill. |
#97
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"Don" wrote in message nk.net... "jo4hn" wrote in message ... Dr. Hardcrab wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ;-] Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee. OK, I know robin hartl's butt quite well but who is mr lee? I don't know who Robin is let alone her/his butt. If it's a him, I WILL let it alone.... |
#98
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"skroob" wrote in
: Surplus army submarine would solve all issues. The ARMY does not have submarines,they are NAVAL vessels. (And surplus ones do not get sold to civilians,they either get scrapped or sold to other nations.) I imagine the last surplus naval vessels to be sold to civs were the WWII PT boats or the amphibious DUKWs. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#99
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"Doug B Taylor" wrote in
: "Joseph Meehan" wrote in message ... Easy answer. Just build it in Antarctica. It has not had a hurricane in millions of years. -- Joseph Meehan Dia duit BETTER answer.... Just build it in Canada...we have plenty of flood planes for the moronic and a well established reputation for helping our neighbours as opposed to using high powered fire arms to solve all our problems. Regards, Doug I suspect you have no idea of what you are talking about on the gun comment.("solve all our problems"....!) (and it's flood PLAINS,not planes.) -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#100
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I'm sure there are.
"Don" wrote in message ink.net... Then there's 1/2 a million idiots living rather well here in the target zone of Lee County, Florida. |
#101
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In article ,
"D. J. MCBRIDE" wrote: I'd drill the little ****er that went "WEE WEE WEE" all the way home... You mean you'd "pork" him? ....my sex life is none of yoink business... |
#102
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A forgotten tecnique for lumber framing and putting on plywood and
waferboard is to toe nail. Nails driven straight into end grain don't hold diddly. When you angle all stud wall nails, the holding power is much greater. The same with sheeting. If all of the nails are driven in at the same angle, you can knock it out with your hands, and the nails will still be in the sheet. When the nails are driven in at opposing angles, the only way to get a sheet back off is to destroy the sheet because the nails will pull through the sheet, and not come off with it. robo hippy |
#103
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On Fri, 9 Sep 2005 18:08:19 -0400, "Upscale"
wrote: "Notan" wrote in message Underground would prevent *all* wind damage, but the house would have to be 110% waterproof/watertight, and have some type of above-ground ventilation system. House built into the side of a mountain that is above sea level. ~ preferably in a lesser earthquake zone. Here's a turn-key design, courtesy of Uncle Sam: https://www.cheyennemountain.af.mil/thedesign.htm Lee |
#104
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On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 21:26:21 -0700, Mark & Juanita
wrote: On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 19:14:27 GMT, "Nehmo" wrote: Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. You had a shot up until the "unwanted government interference". There is nothing that can be built to stand up or resist that. More to the point, you wouldn't be able to break ground on the house's foundation without having to deal with it. Lee |
#105
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I'm sure you're sure.
"CW" wrote in message ink.net... I'm sure there are. "Don" wrote in message ink.net... Then there's 1/2 a million idiots living rather well here in the target zone of Lee County, Florida. |
#106
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"Dr. Hardcrab" wrote in message news:e3CUe.3223$8h6.770@trnddc09... "Don" wrote in message nk.net... "jo4hn" wrote in message ... Dr. Hardcrab wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ;-] Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee. OK, I know robin hartl's butt quite well but who is mr lee? I don't know who Robin is let alone her/his butt. If it's a him, I WILL let it alone.... If you saw Robin's butt you'd know right away her gender. heh-heh |
#107
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In article ,
Mark & Juanita wrote: On Fri, 09 Sep 2005 22:27:47 -0500, zxcvbob wrote: Chris wrote: Saw a show once about Antarctica. They came across a dead seal, looked like it died yesterday. Narrator mentioned that it had died 300 years ago. Wonder if the meat was still good? How did the narrator know that? Easy, he counted the rings. ;-) I usually hang up after 3-4 rings. |
#108
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On Sat, 10 Sep 2005 11:39:12 GMT, "HMFIC-1369"
Baa wrote: Since everybody for the most part overlooked the obvious........ I'd say it may stand, just nothing at home upstairs! "Nehmo" wrote in message ... Let's say you're building a 1,500 square foot house plus garage on a sufficiently sized lot from scratch in New Orleans after the water has been drained. You want to build so that the house would suffer zero damage should it endure a hurricane of similar size as Katrina. Normal houses should be able to survive a direct hit Cat 2 hurricane (correct me if I am wrong). A direct hit from anything above that will cause damage however strong you build it. Once there is damage and the rainwater/floofwater gets in the inside contents that can absorb water are toast. And the stronger and heavier your building the more damage there will be to your house and to your neighbor's as the parts tear off in the high wind or flood surge. You also don't want to build a house so heavy that it looks like a prison and cost more than one. You'll never pass the guidelines for neighbourhood architectural conformity anyway. So we can presume that your house will look be built like one of those antebellum houses that makes New Orleans so charming. It should also be a two storey house so that you will have a place of refuge in case of flooding If I were to rebuild what I will do is to design a house that will have a concrete structural frame that will stand intact in a Cat 5 storm. Presumably the main panels and outlets for utility llines, water pipes and other services will be attached to or be protected by this concrete frame. This is so that while the service runs to the rest of the house can be destroyed one can easily re-establish new connections to the main panels and outlets. Everything else of regular construction can tbe damaged, be blown or washed away but the frame stands. That way I can easily tear down the roof and walls and quickly rebuild without having to bulldoze the whole structure or having to resubmit the building approvals. A refinement to this house design will be to make the first floor level a sacrificial part that a storm surge can wash away without bringing the second floor with it, or damaging the structure of the house. I saw some TV shots of a breachfront house in the Carolinas that survived such a surge. That left the house looking like it was built on stilits. The second floor was damaged and not worth salvaging. But had someone taken refuge there (none) that person would have survived. A conventionally build house would have been totalled and killed everyone within it. One can understand the desire to stay in and sit out the storm, mainly to prevent looting, and perhaps to fix fixable damage on the fly before it becomes a big one. The chances of a direct hurricane hit are small enough for most homeowners to take this risk. The chances of a direct hit is nonetheless there and it will seem very stupid by then to risk life and limb for a house. Therefore the problem should be recast as how can one stay for a less threatening storm and yet survive the perfect storm? The answer will be a storm-proof safe room built on top of this concrete structure. It will probably be the size of a large bathroom and made of steel or concrete for protection against flying debris or tree falls. It should be capable of being buttoned down and float upright like a boat should it be dislodged. At that level of storm intensity there is no longer any consideration of living in it to guard your property. All you want is to survive the perfect storm and get the hell out, a stay of less than 48 hours. You would have to build to survive the wind, the flood water, the wind-caused waves in the water (In Katrina-NOLA, the wind had subsided before water came in; this may not be the case in the future), and the impacts of debris. You need to anticipate looters and unwanted government interference. The house would have independent utilities, communication, and supplies. And the house would need a secure means of transportation for escape if necessary. How should this house be built and what should it have? -- |||||||||||||||| Nehmo Sergheyev |||||||||||||||| |
#109
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#110
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robo hippy wrote:
A forgotten tecnique for lumber framing and putting on plywood and waferboard is to toe nail. Nails driven straight into end grain don't hold diddly. When you angle all stud wall nails, the holding power is much greater. The same with sheeting. If all of the nails are driven in at the same angle, you can knock it out with your hands, and the nails will still be in the sheet. When the nails are driven in at opposing angles, the only way to get a sheet back off is to destroy the sheet because the nails will pull through the sheet, and not come off with it. robo hippy Except that this is largely irrelevant when it comes to installing sheathing. The main force that sheathing needs to resist is shear, not withdrawal. And nailing at an angle can reduce the ability to resist shear, not increase it. Matt |
#111
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"Adam Weiss" wrote in message But really, your idea of putting essential building utilities on the above the water line in floods is one I had before ( thread titled "why don't they" on alt.architecture. I suggested it for certain buildings that are of importance during catastrophes - hospitals in particular. In certain flood prone areas it is already requird by code. Has been for a number of years in some places. It is js ut common sense if you are prone to flooding either on the coast or the banks of a river. Houses in Florida and the New Jersey shore have been rasied on pilings for the same reason. But doing it for every apartment building? Very excessive. Unless the people who choose to live in apartment buildings want it and the people leasing apartments can sell it. Every building? Yes, but for many it makes a lot of sense. In some areas there are even basement apartments that are about six feet below grade. Makes for some interesting things in the bathtub when plumbing problems happen. You could even build the walkways open air, using the wrought iron balcony style popular for Mardi Gras in New Orleans. This would make the city a fun place to visit. Las Vegas is using elevated walkways to avoid traffic. It can easily be used in other areas too. Well, maybe not always easily, but it is not a bad idea. Car storage? People use their cars. Maybe. In New York it is common to leave a car parked or "stored" for weeks at a time. Parking, storeage, just variations on termonology. |
#112
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Don wrote:
"jo4hn" wrote in message ... Dr. Hardcrab wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ;-] Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee. OK, I know robin hartl's butt quite well but who is mr lee? ummm. Lee Valley ring a bell? |
#114
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On 9-Sep-2005, "Don" wrote: 2x8 jambs & head and 4"x1/4" tapcons 6" o/c staggered. steel clad or solid core outswing door. triple nickel 40 threshhold. that'll stop em in their tracks. Local Hell's Angel hangout was raided - the cops used a backhoe to open the door. The HA rebuilt with a concrete wall in front to the door so they couldn't use a backhoe again. Mike |
#116
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On 9-Sep-2005, "Chris" wrote: Plus no germs or bacteria. It isn't that they aren't there - they do exist in certain crevices in rock faces and survive in tiny microclimates. Since they aren't too mobile, your dead seal on a beach can last a long time. Mike |
#117
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"EagleMtn" wrote
I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe. Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything. Think: Hoover Dam. A backhoe is a lightweight device, all things considered. |
#118
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"jo4hn" wrote in message ... Don wrote: "jo4hn" wrote in message ... Dr. Hardcrab wrote: "Matt Whiting" wrote in message ... gruhn wrote: I nominate this thread as the most retarded ever in the history of these groups. Second nomination of "Prize winner?" as most retarded thread ever. I nominate you both as the most retarded posters to a thread ever. I know you are butt what am I???? ;-] Nah. Robin's butt. Just ask Ms Hartl and Mr Lee. OK, I know robin hartl's butt quite well but who is mr lee? ummm. Lee Valley ring a bell? Ahhhh, ain't I the dumbass? (now I'm trying to figure the connection between Robin and Mr Lee) Hmmmm..... |
#119
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Don wrote:
"EagleMtn" wrote I dobt that a concrete wall will stop a backhoe. Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything. Think: Hoover Dam. Constant, evenly dispersed pressure. A backhoe is a lightweight device, all things considered. Not. Notan |
#120
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"Notan" wrote in message Built properly, a concrete wall can stop just about anything. Think: Hoover Dam. Constant, evenly dispersed pressure. How long will it take a backhoe to get through it? A backhoe is a lightweight device, all things considered. Not. Relative to what? There are many mechanical or structurally made 10 x or more heavier than even a big backhoe. |
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