I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket (luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the 'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with another
wire nut?

thanks!

Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket (luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the 'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with another
wire nut?

thanks!

RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket (luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the 'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with another
wire nut?

thanks!




Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty
x-former which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.

On Mar 21, 5:01�pm, Tony Hwang wrote:
RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
om...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket (luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the 'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with another
wire nut?

thanks!

Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty
x-former which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Is the OP CERTAIN that transformer isnt for the furnace thermostat?
its a logical place to be....

sometimes its easiest to abandon something old like this transformer
and install a new one somewhere else, bell wire is cheap

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are
tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket
(luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the
'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box
there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a
similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't
match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors
for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is
this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better
to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with
another
wire nut?

thanks!




Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty x-former
which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.

I don't know where you retrieved this old post from, but, if it's a bell
transformer, it isn't 24 volt, and if it is 24 volt, it would probably be
for the heating system, but certainly not the doorbell

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:43:24 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are
tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket
(luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the
'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box
there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a
similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't
match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut? Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors
for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is
this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better
to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with
another
wire nut?

thanks!




Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty x-former
which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.

I don't know where you retrieved this old post from, but, if it's a bell
transformer, it isn't 24 volt, and if it is 24 volt, it would probably be
for the heating system, but certainly not the doorbell

SOME doorbells use 24 volts. Most are 18?

wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:43:24 -0400, "RBM" wrote:


"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are
tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction
box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power
to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket
(luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the
'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows
what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box
there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to
existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution
as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a
similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't
match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut?
Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors
for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is
this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better
to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with
another
wire nut?

thanks!




Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty
x-former
which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.

I don't know where you retrieved this old post from, but, if it's a bell
transformer, it isn't 24 volt, and if it is 24 volt, it would probably be
for the heating system, but certainly not the doorbell

SOME doorbells use 24 volts. Most are 18?

Most chimes are 16, bells and buzzers are 6-8. I've never seen a 24, but
maybe up in your neck of the woods

On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 18:28:13 -0400, "RBM" wrote:



I don't know where you retrieved this old post from, but, if it's a bell
transformer, it isn't 24 volt, and if it is 24 volt, it would probably be
for the heating system, but certainly not the doorbell

SOME doorbells use 24 volts. Most are 18?

Most chimes are 16, bells and buzzers are 6-8. I've never seen a 24, but
maybe up in your neck of the woods

My house came with chimes and I think 18 volts. When I got a better
chime for the first floor and moved the first chime to the basement
(where I used to work and never hear the first chime, the transformer
wasn't powerful enough for both so I had to get heavy duty. (Otherwise
I think the original light duty one would have lasted forever) Then
the chime on the first floor was so loud, it tripped the breakage
detectors on my burglar alarm anytime a delivery man rang the
doorbell. I only use the alarm when I'm not home and no one told me
about this for a year or two!

Then I used a a potentiometer, variable resistor to find a value that
would quiet the chime so it woudln't set off the alarm, but was still
as loud as possible. Once I had the value, I replaced the pot with a
fixed resistor.

Then I started using the computer a lot, with the radio on and
couldn't hear the bell on the first floor. No easy way to run wires
so I got a 4 dollar wireless doorbell, soldered a wire across the
button switch, and powered it not from a 9-volt battery but from the
18 volt transformer, only when someone at the door pushed the button.
18 volts was AC and I ran that through a little diode, and got about 9
volts DC which is what the electronic-doorbell-button wanted.

I hate it when people have surface mount buttons at their door, and
it's even worse when they have two buttons at the same spot.

RBM wrote:
wrote in message
...
On Sat, 21 Mar 2009 17:43:24 -0400, "RBM" wrote:

"Tony Hwang" wrote in message
...
RBM wrote:
Just note where the wires of the existing transformer are attached and
connect the new one the same. Make sure your wire nut connections are
tight
"Bill Green" wrote in message
m...
I need to replace the transformer for my door bell and I have some
questions
on good wiring practices.

The existing (defective) transformer is attached to a metal junction
box
in
the middle of a cable whose primary duty seems to be providing power
to
the
furnace fan motor. There is also a porcelain light bulb socket
(luminaire
seems too fancy a word for this fixture) attached directly to the
'broad'
face of the junction box. This house is 40 years old so who knows
what's
been done around the wiring, I've had surprises before.

I expect that when I lock out the breaker and open the junction box
there
will be 4 black wires on one wire nut (1 black wire coming in, 1 black
wire
going out, 1 black wire for the luminaire, and 1 black wire to
existing
transformer), 4 white wires on another wire nut (similar distribution
as
for
black wires), and 3 grounds on a third wire nut (same as before except
that
the porcelain luminaire likely isn't grounded) or else attached to the
metal
box.

Is this a realistic assumption for a properly designed connection?

The reason I ask is that I had a another set of assumptions for a
similar
junction box that was on a switched circuit. Here the reality didn't
match
my preconceived notions; instead the white wire from the bathroom
ventilator
fan was attached to a sloppy-looking birds nest of ground wires; and
that's
the only way it would work.

Also, is it all right to connect 4 wires with one wire nut?
Information
from
Ideal shows UL listed wire combinations for number/size of conductors
for
each model number of Wire-Nut(R), so presumably this is okay. But is
this
commonly done as good practice and relatively safe? Would it be better
to
pigtail off so that I have 3 conductors under one wire nut with the
pigtail
connecting the existing light and the replacement transformer with
another
wire nut?

thanks!



Hi,
First, turn off 120V going to the x-former. I'd buy a heavy duty
x-former
which will last longer. It is just s step down x-former
120V AC to 24V AC.
I don't know where you retrieved this old post from, but, if it's a bell
transformer, it isn't 24 volt, and if it is 24 volt, it would probably be
for the heating system, but certainly not the doorbell

SOME doorbells use 24 volts. Most are 18?

Most chimes are 16, bells and buzzers are 6-8. I've never seen a 24, but
maybe up in your neck of the woods



I just installed a doorbell for a customer and it was
a 16 volt system with a lighted button. 24 volts would
work but the light may not last very long. Many door-
bells are 10 volt units. If you look in the door chime
section of Lowe's/Home Depot you may only find 10 and 16
volt transformers.

TDD