One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers, and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace them both now, or
is this overkill?

2. What's the difference between an 'in-ground' and an 'above
ground' pump? Is it strictly a matter of size/capacity?

3. (ok, I actually have three questions) This is a Doughboy Power Pak
II pump. In terms of durability/reliability, how does the Doughboy
pump that died compare with some of the other brands on the market?
Should I buy another Doughboy pump?

Thanks,
Mike

Mike Hartigan wrote:
One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers, and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace them both now, or
is this overkill?

As long as you're in there doing the work, I would replace them as an
assembly.

But first, make sure that it isn't just a matter of the pump losing
prime.

Can't help you with the brands...don't know the Doughboy. I've had
excellent service (10 years) from Sta-Rite.

please describe "pump is shot". usually what goes bad when there is no water
is the pump seal. It depends on water as a lubricant and cooler. Without
water they overheat and start leaking. Replacing a seal is easy and cheap
enough to do that I mght give it a try before replacing the whole pump.
Rebuild kits are available with all the needed seals. Or you can take it
into the pool store and have them do a complete recondition on the unit.
Still cheaper than a new pump.

My Hayward pump is going on 14 years. I rebuilt the seal after 7 when the
same thing happened to me. I take my pump indoors every winter.

As far as the motor goes, two things usually fail on them: the bearings and
the centrifical switch for the start up capacitor. I replaced the bearings
on my spare pump when the little water shedding disk (on the shaft just
infront of the bearing) disintegrated allowing water to get to the bearing.

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers, and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace them both now, or
is this overkill?

As long as you're in there doing the work, I would replace them as an
assembly.

But first, make sure that it isn't just a matter of the pump losing
prime.

Can't help you with the brands...don't know the Doughboy. I've had
excellent service (10 years) from Sta-Rite.

Interesting response; nearly identical to my own
experience with their D.E. pump/filter. Hayward seems
to be about the best there is, from my seriously
unscientific "survey", namely what I got vs. what other
people got.

Yes, big difference between inground/aboveground;
usually also in prices, but especially for making
connections. Hayward pumps (hayward.com) have a
ceramic bearing, but even it can be destroyed to the
point of leaking. Replaced motor at about 7 years,
filter at about ten, only because it was starting to
show stress cracks around the plunger bolts.

If it happens again, I'll replace it all at once: then
I'll have an "extra" for opening the pool each spring.
Two filters in parallel turns out ot make short work of
getting it started. Lots less bumping, twice the time
to "plug" them. Just need a few extra parts around for
hooking them up: I collected LOTS of valves over the
years!

HTH,

Pop

"Jmagerl" wrote in message
...
please describe "pump is shot". usually what goes bad
when there is no water is the pump seal. It depends
on water as a lubricant and cooler. Without water
they overheat and start leaking. Replacing a seal is
easy and cheap enough to do that I mght give it a try
before replacing the whole pump. Rebuild kits are
available with all the needed seals. Or you can take
it into the pool store and have them do a complete
recondition on the unit. Still cheaper than a new
pump.

My Hayward pump is going on 14 years. I rebuilt the
seal after 7 when the same thing happened to me. I
take my pump indoors every winter.

As far as the motor goes, two things usually fail on
them: the bearings and the centrifical switch for the
start up capacitor. I replaced the bearings on my
spare pump when the little water shedding disk (on
the shaft just infront of the bearing) disintegrated
allowing water to get to the bearing.

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and
this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I
brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers,
and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the
pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but
I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will
likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the
motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and
it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so
apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace
them both now, or
is this overkill?

As long as you're in there doing the work, I would
replace them as an
assembly.

But first, make sure that it isn't just a matter of
the pump losing
prime.

Can't help you with the brands...don't know the
Doughboy. I've had
excellent service (10 years) from Sta-Rite.

Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere. When I turn it off, the motor takes 5 seconds or so to
spin down (no resistance), so I'm assuming that the impeller is not
impelling. I really didn't spend a lot of time assesing the damage,
I just considered the age of the pump and made the decision (not a
done deal yet) to replace the whole thing, particularly in light of
the fact that the strainer basket/priming tank assembly is on its
last legs, too (cracked ears on the top making a good seal very
difficult to obtain). A suitable replacement for the basket/tank
assembly alone is about 1/3 the price of a new pump/motor, which
includes a new tank/basket assembly! Add the price of
repairing/replacing the pump and we're getting awfully close to
replacing the whold d*mn thing. That's why I'm leaning heavily in
that direction.

I also take my pump indoors in the winter. I've never done any
maintenance on it and the motor is still as quiet as the day I bought
it, so I suspect that it's of high quality and has a few good years
left in it. I'm sure I'll find a good use for it.

In article ,
says...
please describe "pump is shot". usually what goes bad when there is no water
is the pump seal. It depends on water as a lubricant and cooler. Without
water they overheat and start leaking. Replacing a seal is easy and cheap
enough to do that I mght give it a try before replacing the whole pump.
Rebuild kits are available with all the needed seals. Or you can take it
into the pool store and have them do a complete recondition on the unit.
Still cheaper than a new pump.

My Hayward pump is going on 14 years. I rebuilt the seal after 7 when the
same thing happened to me. I take my pump indoors every winter.

As far as the motor goes, two things usually fail on them: the bearings and
the centrifical switch for the start up capacitor. I replaced the bearings
on my spare pump when the little water shedding disk (on the shaft just
infront of the bearing) disintegrated allowing water to get to the bearing.

"Travis Jordan" wrote in message
...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers, and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace them both now, or
is this overkill?

As long as you're in there doing the work, I would replace them as an
assembly.

But first, make sure that it isn't just a matter of the pump losing
prime.

Can't help you with the brands...don't know the Doughboy. I've had
excellent service (10 years) from Sta-Rite.

Mike Hartigan wrote:
Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

So did you try priming it?

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:41:43 -0500, Mike Hartigan
wrote:

Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

There is nothing inside the pump that would fail due to not having
water other than the seal as others have stated. The impeller doesn't
actually touch anything in there.

Prime the pump and turn it back on. If your feeling really
industrious remove the impellerand replace the disk seal otherwise
watch for leaks and replace it you see any.

The motor bearings are usually what ends the life of these things.
Often the shaft seal starts leaking and is allowed to continue to leak
until it ruins the bearing. We usually replace that seal every couple
years just to be on the safe side in the pool and well pumps.

Steve B.

In article ,
says...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
One of the hoses on my filter failed last night and this morning I
found the water level just below the skimmer. I brought the water
level back where it belongs, crossed my fingers, and turned on the
pump. Motor runs fine, but, not unexpectedly, the pump is shot. I
considered replacing or repairing just the pump but I figured that
this unit is seven years old and the motor will likely need replacing
soon anyway, so why not just replace the motor/pump? They're more
widely available in that configuration anyway, and it'll be cheaper
than replacing them individually a year or so apart.

Two questions:

1. After seven years, does it make sense to replace them both now, or
is this overkill?

As long as you're in there doing the work, I would replace them as an
assembly.

But first, make sure that it isn't just a matter of the pump losing
prime.

That's not an issue. Plenty of water in the priming tank.

Can't help you with the brands...don't know the Doughboy. I've had
excellent service (10 years) from Sta-Rite.

In article ,
says...
Mike Hartigan wrote:
Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

So did you try priming it?



The priming tank is full. The motor spins, but the water doesn't
move.

In article ,
says...
On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:41:43 -0500, Mike Hartigan
wrote:

Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

There is nothing inside the pump that would fail due to not having
water other than the seal as others have stated. The impeller doesn't
actually touch anything in there.

Prime the pump and turn it back on. If your feeling really
industrious remove the impellerand replace the disk seal otherwise
watch for leaks and replace it you see any.

The motor bearings are usually what ends the life of these things.
Often the shaft seal starts leaking and is allowed to continue to leak
until it ruins the bearing. We usually replace that seal every couple
years just to be on the safe side in the pool and well pumps.

I suspect that the impeller is no longer connected to the motor
shaft. The motor spins freely with no apparent resistance - as I
said it takes a few seconds to spin down after shutting it off.
Perhaps the heat simply caused the impeller to detach from the shaft?
The priming tank is full so that's not the problem. No leaks
anywhere.

Didn't see the OP, however, some small
pumps have rubber flaps
on the impeller. If run dry, they will
melt and the pump will free
wheel.

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article ,
says...

On Wed, 29 Jun 2005 22:41:43 -0500, Mike Hartigan
wrote:


Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

There is nothing inside the pump that would fail due to not having
water other than the seal as others have stated. The impeller doesn't
actually touch anything in there.

Prime the pump and turn it back on. If your feeling really
industrious remove the impellerand replace the disk seal otherwise
watch for leaks and replace it you see any.

The motor bearings are usually what ends the life of these things.
Often the shaft seal starts leaking and is allowed to continue to leak
until it ruins the bearing. We usually replace that seal every couple
years just to be on the safe side in the pool and well pumps.


I suspect that the impeller is no longer connected to the motor
shaft. The motor spins freely with no apparent resistance - as I
said it takes a few seconds to spin down after shutting it off.
Perhaps the heat simply caused the impeller to detach from the shaft?
The priming tank is full so that's not the problem. No leaks
anywhere.

Mike Hartigan wrote:
In article ,
says...

Mike Hartigan wrote:

Sorry, I guess "pump is shot" is a bit vague. Basically, it's not
leaking, but when I turn it on, the motor spins but the water doesn't
go anywhere.

So did you try priming it?




The priming tank is full. The motor spins, but the water doesn't
move.

OK, the motor spins, but does the impeller turn, or is it loose on the
shaft?



--
If you find a posting or message from myself offensive,
inappropriate, or disruptive, please ignore it. If you don't know
how to ignore a posting,complain to me and I will demonstrate.

Filter pump: post-mortem

Well, I opened up the pump and found, first of all, quite a bit of
deformity of the impeller, likely due to heat. The (stainless?)
steel threads on the impeller were stripped clean. The threads on
the motor shaft were unharmed, no doubt due to the fact that it is
made from a harder metal. I suspect that the impeller siezed due to
the heat and the next weakest link in the chain failed - the impeller
threads. (so, indeed, "the pump is shot" ;-). I bought a
similarlarly-spec'ed Jacuzzi motor/pump to replace it and all is,
once again, right with the world!

Thanks for all your insight and suggestions.

-Mike

Mike Hartigan wrote:
Thanks for all your insight and suggestions.

Thanks for the follow up. Many times we don't hear the end of the story
(happy or not), so it is good to hear that all is well again.

Happy 4th if you are in the U.S., otherwise, enjoy the weekend.