Where do I begin???

We're building a new home and I fell in love with the photo of
Mannington's Blue Ridge Hickory Plank Natural in their catalog. I went
to several local flooring stores to price shop and view the sample
boards. I got catalogs and I requested wood samples from Mannington,
which they sent right out. I thought I knew what I was ordering.

I called FastFloors.com and got a quote of $5.30 a square foot, which
was $2.00 a foot less than the lowest local store was offering. They
offered to put flooring on hold for me, because this particular style
is popular and on backorder frequently. The next day, credit card in
hand, I called FastFloors.com back to pay. I was told that the quote
was no good and that I would have to pay $6.15 a square foot. Since
the only available flooring was on hold with them, I would either have
to risk losing that lot to someone else in the country and waiting for
a backorder to arrive in a few weeks, or pay the higher price. I was
angry, but I ordered the flooring.

It was delivered 3 weeks ago, and our installers told us to let it sit
in the house for two weeks to acclimate. We opened two boxes, and
admired the top board or two---couldn't wait to see it installed!

Installation day arrived 10 days ago. Several hours into the job, the
owner of the installation company called me and told me that a lot of
the wood was bad, and that I needed to leave work and take a look.

Bad? It is horrible wood. Nothing at all like Mannington's photos.
I called them up and was told that hickory has lots of "character and
color variation". I was fine with the colors--that is what I loved
about what I had seen. I did not appreciate the worm holes, huge gray
areas, black streaks, wood with defects which had been finished over,
huge knots, etc. My installer told me it was "cabin grade" wood,
which would be fine if we were building a cabin and not a $2 million
contemporary home in Los Angeles.

Sadly, during the building of the home, we were victims of the deluges
of rain all winter and our subfloors were soaked so often that they
were not very smooth. Our installers sanded, and recommended gluing
down the flooring to increase the integrity of the finished
installation.

When I saw the wood that had been installed, I just about cried in
front of the entire crew. The owner told me that the glue wouldn't be
completely cured for at least 24 hours and that he could have the
flooring pried up in the morning. I told him I'd call Mannington
first.

When they told me that this was the wood I had ordered and that the
photos on their website are not accurate depictions of the products but
merely "room scenes". I wonder what they call the sample boards? The
actual samples they mail...what are those??

I told my installer John (not his real name) to go ahead and remove the
approximately 300 square feet they'd installed. They had to pry it up
with crowbars, tearing up the subfloor with it.

My subfloor is so damaged now that parts will have to be replaced, and
the framers glued it to the joists, so we have a HUGE MESS on our
hands!!!! I cannot even imagine the words our contractor must have
uttered when he walked in last week and saw the destruction.

Mannington has a pre-installation warranty, whereby a consumer can
hand-select all of the boards to be installed and return the rest for
exchange.

So, what if you order flooring, schedule installers to spend a week at
your home, and half the flooring turns out to look like crap, and there
is no more in stock because it's on backorder???? Does Mannington
warn you? No. Does FastFloors.com? No. But do they both know that
Mannington's hickory is like this? Yes! It would be so kind of one of
them to inform consumers that they should order twice as much wood as
they determine they'll need, so they can hand-select their boards and
send the rest back.

John is going to do his best to fix my subfloor. It looks like a bomb
went off in the home we were supposed to move into in two weeks.
Inspections have been postponed, because we won't pass any of them now.


I'm out another $10,000 in additional wood ordered so far, and will
probably need another 25 boxes to fill my original quantity of decent
wood ordered.

Will I be responsible for the extra $600-700 in shipping? Will
Mannington really refund my $10,000-$13,000 in "rustic" wood? What
will the State Attorney General have to say about all of this?

Stay tuned. I will post again, because no one should suffer the stress
that my husband and I, and John, are going through right now. I should
not be worrying and wondering if more wood will be showing up in the
next day or two so that John's guys can finish.

What if I hadn't been able to pay for the extra wood so we could
"hand-select" our boards? I was lucky enough to have enough credit
available on my AMEX card....oh, and I've called them too. I hear they
are very good about dealing with disputed charges.

If I don't come out of this mess satisfied with the outcome, I will be
putting up a website to accurately depict Mannington's Blue Ridge
Hickory Plank Natural First Quality wood. Someone's got to and
Mannington doesn't seem inclined to, at least not yet.

Your contractor owes you a free subfloor. American Express is the best
for disputes so dont worry to much. Am Exp bailed me out several times .

Bruce's flooring says typical waste is ten percent.


"NotGonnaTakeIt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Where do I begin???

We're building a new home and I fell in love with the photo of
Mannington's Blue Ridge Hickory Plank Natural in their catalog. I went
to several local flooring stores to price shop and view the sample
boards. I got catalogs and I requested wood samples from Mannington,
which they sent right out. I thought I knew what I was ordering.

I called FastFloors.com and got a quote of $5.30 a square foot, which
was $2.00 a foot less than the lowest local store was offering. They
offered to put flooring on hold for me, because this particular style
is popular and on backorder frequently. The next day, credit card in
hand, I called FastFloors.com back to pay. I was told that the quote
was no good and that I would have to pay $6.15 a square foot. Since
the only available flooring was on hold with them, I would either have
to risk losing that lot to someone else in the country and waiting for
a backorder to arrive in a few weeks, or pay the higher price. I was
angry, but I ordered the flooring.

It was delivered 3 weeks ago, and our installers told us to let it sit
in the house for two weeks to acclimate. We opened two boxes, and
admired the top board or two---couldn't wait to see it installed!

Installation day arrived 10 days ago. Several hours into the job, the
owner of the installation company called me and told me that a lot of
the wood was bad, and that I needed to leave work and take a look.

Bad? It is horrible wood. Nothing at all like Mannington's photos.
I called them up and was told that hickory has lots of "character and
color variation". I was fine with the colors--that is what I loved
about what I had seen. I did not appreciate the worm holes, huge gray
areas, black streaks, wood with defects which had been finished over,
huge knots, etc. My installer told me it was "cabin grade" wood,
which would be fine if we were building a cabin and not a $2 million
contemporary home in Los Angeles.

Sadly, during the building of the home, we were victims of the deluges
of rain all winter and our subfloors were soaked so often that they
were not very smooth. Our installers sanded, and recommended gluing
down the flooring to increase the integrity of the finished
installation.

When I saw the wood that had been installed, I just about cried in
front of the entire crew. The owner told me that the glue wouldn't be
completely cured for at least 24 hours and that he could have the
flooring pried up in the morning. I told him I'd call Mannington
first.

When they told me that this was the wood I had ordered and that the
photos on their website are not accurate depictions of the products but
merely "room scenes". I wonder what they call the sample boards? The
actual samples they mail...what are those??

I told my installer John (not his real name) to go ahead and remove the
approximately 300 square feet they'd installed. They had to pry it up
with crowbars, tearing up the subfloor with it.

My subfloor is so damaged now that parts will have to be replaced, and
the framers glued it to the joists, so we have a HUGE MESS on our
hands!!!! I cannot even imagine the words our contractor must have
uttered when he walked in last week and saw the destruction.

Mannington has a pre-installation warranty, whereby a consumer can
hand-select all of the boards to be installed and return the rest for
exchange.

So, what if you order flooring, schedule installers to spend a week at
your home, and half the flooring turns out to look like crap, and there
is no more in stock because it's on backorder???? Does Mannington
warn you? No. Does FastFloors.com? No. But do they both know that
Mannington's hickory is like this? Yes! It would be so kind of one of
them to inform consumers that they should order twice as much wood as
they determine they'll need, so they can hand-select their boards and
send the rest back.

John is going to do his best to fix my subfloor. It looks like a bomb
went off in the home we were supposed to move into in two weeks.
Inspections have been postponed, because we won't pass any of them now.


I'm out another $10,000 in additional wood ordered so far, and will
probably need another 25 boxes to fill my original quantity of decent
wood ordered.

Will I be responsible for the extra $600-700 in shipping? Will
Mannington really refund my $10,000-$13,000 in "rustic" wood? What
will the State Attorney General have to say about all of this?

Stay tuned. I will post again, because no one should suffer the stress
that my husband and I, and John, are going through right now. I should
not be worrying and wondering if more wood will be showing up in the
next day or two so that John's guys can finish.

What if I hadn't been able to pay for the extra wood so we could
"hand-select" our boards? I was lucky enough to have enough credit
available on my AMEX card....oh, and I've called them too. I hear they
are very good about dealing with disputed charges.

If I don't come out of this mess satisfied with the outcome, I will be
putting up a website to accurately depict Mannington's Blue Ridge
Hickory Plank Natural First Quality wood. Someone's got to and
Mannington doesn't seem inclined to, at least not yet.

"NotGonnaTakeIt" wrote in message

I called FastFloors.com and got a quote of $5.30 a square foot, which
was $2.00 a foot less than the lowest local store was offering.

I called FastFloors.com back to pay. I was told that the quote
was no good and that I would have to pay $6.15 a square foot.

Lowest price is not always the best value. This sounds sleazy and you won't
have the support that a reputable local dealer would offer.



Bad? It is horrible wood. Nothing at all like Mannington's photos.
I called them up and was told that hickory has lots of "character and
color variation". I was fine with the colors--that is what I loved
about what I had seen. I did not appreciate the worm holes, huge gray
areas, black streaks, wood with defects which had been finished over,
huge knots, etc.

Some of that sounds very typical of hickory, expecially the worm holes and
color variation. If knots are solid they are often considered to be
acceptable. I don' tknow about the other defects as I can't see them. The
samples you were sent should have been a bit more represtative. I think.




My installer told me it was "cabin grade" wood,
which would be fine if we were building a cabin and not a $2 million
contemporary home in Los Angeles.

Cabin grade? I'm not familiar with the term in an engineered wood floor.
OTOH, some woods do look more rustic that others
From Mannington's web site: Blue Ridge Hickory Plank
Blue Ridge Hickory Plank offers a visual with a wide range of color
variations making each floor unique.


Checkk this out:
http://www.mannington.com/residentia... an+Rustics%99

Can you post a photo someplace? How about alt.binaries.test? I'd like to
see how your products compare wiht the brochures.





When they told me that this was the wood I had ordered and that the
photos on their website are not accurate depictions of the products but
merely "room scenes". I wonder what they call the sample boards? The
actual samples they mail...what are those??

This is where the local dealer would be a big help. A good one would have
been at your house to check it out.


My subfloor is so damaged now that parts will have to be replaced, and
the framers glued it to the joists, so we have a HUGE MESS on our
hands!!!! I cannot even imagine the words our contractor must have
uttered when he walked in last week and saw the destruction.

The glued subfloor is a good thing, a sign of quality constructiohn to
eliminate future squeeks. this time it backfired.



Mannington has a pre-installation warranty, whereby a consumer can
hand-select all of the boards to be installed and return the rest for
exchange.

So, what if you order flooring, schedule installers to spend a week at
your home, and half the flooring turns out to look like crap, and there
is no more in stock because it's on backorder???? Does Mannington
warn you? No. Does FastFloors.com? No.

Guess you should have opened more boxes and looke d amore of the boards. I
did that just to mix them up from box to box like in real flooring. What
you describe is not what I see on their web page though. You do have a good
point.

But do they both know that
Mannington's hickory is like this? Yes! It would be so kind of one of
them to inform consumers that they should order twice as much wood as
they determine they'll need, so they can hand-select their boards and
send the rest back.

You bad experience is the first i've heard about Mannington. I'm very
satisfied iwth every single board I bought.


John is going to do his best to fix my subfloor. It looks like a bomb
went off in the home we were supposed to move into in two weeks.
Inspections have been postponed, because we won't pass any of them now.




Will I be responsible for the extra $600-700 in shipping? Will
Mannington really refund my $10,000-$13,000 in "rustic" wood? What
will the State Attorney General have to say about all of this?

Stay tuned.

I will. I'm interested in the resolutionof this.

Had to order and then drive an hour each way today to pick up another
20 boxes. Now we have 225 boxes to do a 104 box job, but hopefully
there is now enough decent wood to finish up tomorrow. I've taken
lots of photos and will be keeping some of the bad wood, for future use
if necessary. I have to box up all of the bad stuff this week and call
to have the distributor pick it up. It's like putting a puzzle
together to fit all of the various size boards back in the boxes, and a
huge job that I just don't have time for! I am very, very unhappy
with my Mannington flooring and I'm starting to think that this wood
has already been picked over and re-packaged by someone else, with a
few good boards tossed in to make it look otherwise. My boxes only
have white stickers on the ends, with the style no., lot no., etc. I
saw other Mannington boxes at the distributor's warehouse that had
"MANNINGTON" in large letters, in green ink on the sides. Why isn't
their name on my boxes?

Oh, and another thing. Ever heard of "banana boards"? That is what
the installers are calling some of my planks, which are terribly
warped. I'll have to take some photos of those as well. I thought
that engineered hardwood didn't warp.

Edwin, I have registered a couple of domains to document this incident,
and will post the photos on them shortly.

"NotGonnaTakeIt" wrote in messag
My installer told me it was "cabin grade" wood,
which would be fine if we were building a cabin and not a $2 million
contemporary home in Los Angeles.


Why in the world would you try to cheap out by ordering online when you have
such a huge investment? Chances are your contractor is correct, and you
received what we call seconds. You may be correct in thinking the stock you
received was repackaged.

There are wholesale houses which contractors can buy flooring. I used to
use a wholesale house which had a 2 day turn around on any brand. They
carry popular brands and have a showroom which builders, architects, and
installers can use for their customers. The stock obtained through a
wholesale distributor is first-line, not seconds or rejects.

Had you planned out your project, a reputable contractor probably would have
run the flooring through them, and passed a percentage of the savings onto
you.

Guess I'm not surprised to see yet another uninformed consumer, wasting away
dollars.

Well, you "used to use" which means you have experience with this, and
I did not. My contractor refers to a local retail flooring store,
and their prices were so much higher than what I found online.
FastFloors.com advertises "First Quality". If they are committing
fraud by misrepresenting what they are selling, I will have two
companies to file complaints against when I contact California's State
Attorney General next week. I called Mannington and they had me check
the labels on the boxes, and they stated that based on the label
information, I had first quality wood. As of now, I do not believe it.


Also, if the distributor's (Galleher) rep who came out to my home lied
to me about the product I have here, I will add them to the list as
well.

I did plan out my project to the best of my ability, but I am the
homeowner, NOT the contractor, architect, etc. This is the first time
we've ever had a custom home built, and it is definitely a learning
experience. I will have American Express duke it out with Mannington,
Galleher and FastFloors.com. In the meantime, we're almost done with
installation, but we are out of good wood again as of today, so I will
have to order more again Monday.

I don't feel it's so much a case of an uninformed consumer as it is
outright fraud on the part of one or more parties.

"NotGonnaTakeIt" wrote in message

I don't feel it's so much a case of an uninformed consumer as it is
outright fraud on the part of one or more parties.


I don't doubt you had a serious problem, but I really doubt that it is
fraud. Mannington is far to big a company to risk intentionally putting
defective product into the marketplace to save a thousand bucks in scrap.
Can defective product reach the consumer? Sure, especially if the warping
occurred after the material was packaged. If may have been defective and
not noticed (wood moves very slowly), stored under improper conditions
(excessive heat or moisture). I'd tread rather lightly and carefully before
publicly accusing any business of fraud. You want these people in a position
to want to help you and make good on bad products, not to be in a position
to have to defend themselves against a potential libel situation.

You'd be amazed at how a good (but firm) attitude helps get problems solved.

"NotGonnaTakeIt" wrote in message
oups.com...
Well, you "used to use" which means you have experience with this, and
I did not. My contractor refers to a local retail flooring store,
and their prices were so much higher than what I found online.
FastFloors.com advertises "First Quality". If they are committing
fraud by misrepresenting what they are selling, I will have two
companies to file complaints against when I contact California's State
Attorney General next week. I called Mannington and they had me check
the labels on the boxes, and they stated that based on the label
information, I had first quality wood. As of now, I do not believe it.


Also, if the distributor's (Galleher) rep who came out to my home lied
to me about the product I have here, I will add them to the list as
well.

I did plan out my project to the best of my ability, but I am the
homeowner, NOT the contractor, architect, etc. This is the first time
we've ever had a custom home built, and it is definitely a learning
experience. I will have American Express duke it out with Mannington,
Galleher and FastFloors.com. In the meantime, we're almost done with
installation, but we are out of good wood again as of today, so I will
have to order more again Monday.

I think this is a perfect example of you get what you pay for. I would have
asked myself why the online place is so much less rather than just going for
the cheapest price.




I don't feel it's so much a case of an uninformed consumer as it is
outright fraud on the part of one or more parties.

True, IF the labelling on the boxes indicated that it was second
quality merchandise, but I talked to Mannington about it, and based on
the item number, they said this is first quality product. Also, all
of the online places were between $5.19 and $6.15 per square foot. I
called several of them, and FastFloors.com seemed to have the most
knowledgeable staff. They did not have the cheapest price, and because
the lower price range was so widely available on the internet, nothing
led me to suspect that things weren't on the up-and-up. I will be
calling Mannington again in the morning to talk to them about the plain
box issue, and to discuss further what they can do to help.
FastFloors.com mentions in more than one place on their website that
they only sell first quality products. I can't help but suspect that
something fishy has occurred, and maybe it's the distributor, and
Mannington and FastFloors.com have no knowledge of what is going on.
The warped boards were not the only problem--just one of them.