I'm looking for a window or wall air conditioner that can also be used as
stand alone dehumidifier when I don't need cooling. I presently own a
portable floor standing dehumidifier that works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full. (It's in a basement family room so running a
drain hose would look terrible)
I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle on/off based
on temperature...not humidity level.

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a window or wall air conditioner that can also be used as
stand alone dehumidifier when I don't need cooling. I presently own a
portable floor standing dehumidifier that works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full.

It is not dumping any heat into the room that was not alaready there. It
cools the air, extracts the moisture, then re-heats it to where it was
before. Only added heat is from the motor driving the unit, very minimal.


(It's in a basement family room so running a
drain hose would look terrible)

You can buy a small pumpt that goes into the su mp and a smal line r ns out
a drain, window, whatever. Easy to do yourself and does not look all that
bad if done in a corner or painted to match the wall.



I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle on/off
based on temperature...not humidity level.

I've never seen what you are looking for. You'd have to divert the air back
to the room, just like your dehumidifier. If not, you'd be cooling the room
and then paying to heat it. I've seen setups in industrial situations where
the AC and the heat are run at the same time to control humidity in critical
operations.

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a window or wall air conditioner that can also be used as
stand alone dehumidifier when I don't need cooling. I presently own a
portable floor standing dehumidifier that works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full. (It's in a basement family room so running a
drain hose would look terrible)
I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle on/off
based
on temperature...not humidity level.



What you are asking for..they are really the same.
A dehumidifier IS a small AC, only the heat that is removed is put back into
the air.

Now, Mitsubishi Mr Slim units offer a dehumidifiy mode. They also use
electric strips to temper the air temp.

There are thermostats that double as humidistats...what do you really want
to do?

What I want to do (I thought I was clear) is dehumidify my basement family
room (It's a split entry ranch so it has normal windows in the basemement)
without adding more heat down there & without having to empty buckets. It
seems to me someone used to sell a window air conditioner with a humidifying
setting for when you really didn't need cooling. (Most ac units I have seen
wont even cycle on (regardless of the humidity level) much below 65 degrees)
" wrote in
message ...

"Dick" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a window or wall air conditioner that can also be used as
stand alone dehumidifier when I don't need cooling. I presently own a
portable floor standing dehumidifier that works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full. (It's in a basement family room so running a
drain hose would look terrible)
I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle on/off
based
on temperature...not humidity level.



What you are asking for..they are really the same.
A dehumidifier IS a small AC, only the heat that is removed is put back
into
the air.

Now, Mitsubishi Mr Slim units offer a dehumidifiy mode. They also use
electric strips to temper the air temp.

There are thermostats that double as humidistats...what do you really want
to do?

Edwin Pawlowski wrote:
"Dick" wrote
I presently own a portable floor standing dehumidifier that
works fine but it dumps hot air into the family room while
it's dehumidifying

It is not dumping any heat into the room that was not alaready
there. It cools the air, extracts the moisture, then re-heats
it to where it was before. Only added heat is from the motor
driving the unit, very minimal.

But the motor heat is not minimal, and the dehumidifier also adds
1000 Btu of heat to the room for every pint of water extracted.

I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle
on/off based on temperature...not humidity level.

Setting the temperature low and blocking some airflow might help.
You might add a humidistat.

Or automatically ventilate the basement when outdoor air is drier
than indoor air. This can warm or cool the basement as needed, and
dehumidify with 100X less energy than a compressor.

Finding the moisture source (eg air leakage or an unpainted slab)
and reducing it would also help.

Nick

Obviously Nick doesnt own a house or have a basement because here he
goes again with his 100x more energy to run a compressor crap. FYI Nicko
My 700 sq ft basement is dehumidified to 45- 50% all summer for 3.50 a
month verified with a Kill- A- Watt. Running a 200 watt vent fan just
does not do it, I tried, but you never have tried nick. Running a 200 w
fan just 12hrs a day would cost me 9$ a month so my dehumidifier is more
than half the cost of trying to pull in fresh air. You forgot one little
fact nicko in summer outside air is humid. Go live in a house and try
your theories for once nick.

Never seen such a doodad. But, it sure makes sense.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Dick" wrote in message
...
I'm looking for a window or wall air conditioner that can also be used as
stand alone dehumidifier when I don't need cooling. I presently own a
portable floor standing dehumidifier that works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full. (It's in a basement family room so running a
drain hose would look terrible)
I realize that all ac units will dehumidify but they only cycle on/off based
on temperature...not humidity level.

And the compressor which draws 600 watts or so. I'd call that dumping heat.

--

Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
www.mormons.com


"Edwin Pawlowski" wrote in message
news:Kvv7e.5395$4v3.3701@trndny03...

works fine but it dumps hot air
into the family room while it's dehumidifying & it's bucket has to be
manually dumped when full.

It is not dumping any heat into the room that was not alaready there. It
cools the air, extracts the moisture, then re-heats it to where it was
before. Only added heat is from the motor driving the unit, very minimal.

The only way to dehumidify and not cool and not heat is to add reheat
to a standard ac unit. works good but very expensive to operate.
Normal ac does 80 percent cooling, 20 percent moisture removal.
Thermastor makes high efficiency dehumidifiers, but they are not cheap
and still add some heat back into room. Some models include a pump to
get rid of condensate. What you want would have to be custom made,
very expensive. Thermastor is 1-800-533-7533. Great product, they
make ducted models also. The only thing I have ever seen like what you
want is an indoor swimming pool dehumidifier. has built in condensor
for hot gas reheat plus outside condensor coil. It can switch between
dehumidifier and ac modes. Commercial units. Try Dectron. Wait till
you see the price on THAT!

Stretch

Is it an old dehumidifier new Energy Star labeled units are 2 times more
efficient and produce much less heat . I enjoy the extra heat as my
basenent is completely underground and cool. I only notice 2-3 degree
increase. You could use a condensate pump or raise the unit up higher
for auto draining. If you have forced air adding a closeable basement
return and supply would give you flexibility in moving conditioned air
in and hot air out. Or both window AC and dehumidifier. Changing to
flourescent lights will help as a 100 watt incandesant really puts out
90 watts or so, of heat.

m Ransley wrote:

Obviously Nick doesnt own a house...

Wrong again. I've owned several.

or have a basement...

With basements. You are a _presumptive_ little ignorant worm :-)

here he goes again with his 100x more energy to run a compressor...

Simple physics. You might try it sometime :-)

My 700 sq ft basement is dehumidified to 45- 50% all summer for
3.50 a month verified with a Kill- A- Watt.

Congrats. That isn't much dehumidification, but if you didn't live next
to a lake, you might do it for 3.5 cents a month with a 90 W 2470 cfm
fan that automatically turns on when outdoor air is drier.

Nick

Nickavecmerde you just pull irrelevant BS numbers out your ass with your
calculator , you have no hands on , no real experience , nothing to back
you up but fantasies of an idiot , you just make up BS theories that
don`t reflect actual situations for most. Your "humidification wastes
energy' " Flood your basement floor for free humidity" " I put a
humidistat on my steam radiator for humidity" posts prove you are an
idiot that continues to post irrelevant, misleading , wrong info. You
are like a bad computer program Garbage in-Garbage out.

m Ransley wrote:
Nickavecmerde you just pull irrelevant BS numbers out your ass with
your
calculator , you have no hands on , no real experience , nothing to
back
you up but fantasies of an idiot , you just make up BS theories that
don`t reflect actual situations for most. Your "humidification wastes
energy' " Flood your basement floor for free humidity" " I put a
humidistat on my steam radiator for humidity" posts prove you are an
idiot that continues to post irrelevant, misleading , wrong info. You
are like a bad computer program Garbage in-Garbage out.

It's time to ignore you again :-)

Nick

Not to jump into the middle of a ripping flame war, but I have a question.

Assuming the nighttime humidity is low and the daytime humidity is high. If
you use ventilation to bring in the lower humidity air only at night, will
that indoor humidity stay low during the day or will it rise back up by
noon?


"nick pine" wrote in message
oups.com...
m Ransley wrote:

Obviously Nick doesnt own a house...

Wrong again. I've owned several.

or have a basement...

With basements. You are a _presumptive_ little ignorant worm :-)

here he goes again with his 100x more energy to run a compressor...

Simple physics. You might try it sometime :-)

My 700 sq ft basement is dehumidified to 45- 50% all summer for
3.50 a month verified with a Kill- A- Watt.

Congrats. That isn't much dehumidification, but if you didn't live next
to a lake, you might do it for 3.5 cents a month with a 90 W 2470 cfm
fan that automatically turns on when outdoor air is drier.

Nick

I thought humidity generaly increased at night, either way during summer
I never realy get low humidity out doors, it is usualy 55 - 75 % and for
many a month 75%+ not enough of a variable in percentage to dry anything
especialy my basement. But many are not completly underground and have
windows all around, for those sure it may work. Ive done both and end up
leaving the dehumidifier on. I realy only get low humidity and warmth
in fall as does alot of central US

bob smith wrote:

Assuming the nighttime humidity is low and the daytime humidity is
high. If you use ventilation to bring in the lower humidity air only at
night, will that indoor humidity stay low during the day or will it
rise back up by noon?

That depends on how fast the moisture enters the house and what the
house is made of, ie how well it can store moisture. A house made
entirely with indoor tile walls can't store much. A more typical house
filled with wood and cloth and paper can store more. IIRC, the
equilibrium moisture content by weight of some woods is about 30% of
the RH of the surrounding air. Exposed or aerated concrete is also
good. See Kurt Kielsgard Hanson's 142 page catalog of sorption
isotherms as LBM technical report 162/86 under
http://www.byg.dtu.dk/publications/reports.htm

you might do it for 3.5 cents a month with a 90 W 2470 cfm
fan that automatically turns on when outdoor air is drier.

"Drier," as in less absolute vs relative humidity, ie a lower humidity
ratio w, in pounds of water per pound of dry air, which requires a
calculation, starting from RHs and temps. And the fan needn't run only
at night, or every night. The outdoor humidity ratio (vs RH) doesn't
vary much over a day. NREL says w = 0.005 on an average April day in
Phila with a 52.4 and 62.6 F daily min and max. If the house requires
heat, we might better ventilate during the day... 70 F air at 60% RH
has wi = 0.0095, so a 2470 cfm fan that moves 60x2470x0.075 = 11,115
pounds of air per hour can remove 11,115(wi-w) = 49.7 pints of water
per hour of operation, with an energy cost of 90/49.7 = 1.8 watt-hours
per pint, 330 times less than the 600 watt-hour/pint cost of a typical
dehumidifier.

Nick

nick pine wrote in message
oups.com...
bob smith wrote

Assuming the nighttime humidity is low and the daytime humidity is high.

Thats very unlikely to be seen much in practice.

If you use ventilation to bring in the lower humidity
air only at night, will that indoor humidity stay low
during the day or will it rise back up by noon?

That depends on how fast the moisture enters the house and what the
house is made of, ie how well it can store moisture. A house made
entirely with indoor tile walls can't store much. A more typical house
filled with wood and cloth and paper can store more. IIRC, the
equilibrium moisture content by weight of some woods is about 30% of
the RH of the surrounding air. Exposed or aerated concrete is also
good. See Kurt Kielsgard Hanson's 142 page catalog of sorption
isotherms as LBM technical report 162/86 under
http://www.byg.dtu.dk/publications/reports.htm

you might do it for 3.5 cents a month with a 90 W 2470 cfm
fan that automatically turns on when outdoor air is drier.

"Drier," as in less absolute vs relative humidity, ie a lower humidity
ratio w, in pounds of water per pound of dry air, which requires a
calculation, starting from RHs and temps. And the fan needn't run only
at night, or every night. The outdoor humidity ratio (vs RH) doesn't
vary much over a day. NREL says w = 0.005 on an average April day in
Phila with a 52.4 and 62.6 F daily min and max. If the house requires
heat, we might better ventilate during the day... 70 F air at 60% RH
has wi = 0.0095, so a 2470 cfm fan that moves 60x2470x0.075 = 11,115
pounds of air per hour can remove 11,115(wi-w) = 49.7 pints of water
per hour of operation, with an energy cost of 90/49.7 = 1.8 watt-hours
per pint, 330 times less than the 600 watt-hour/pint cost of a typical
dehumidifier.

Nick

m Ransley wrote:

I thought humidity generaly increased at night...

Relative humidity increases at night as the air temp drops, but
absolute humidity (as measured by dew point or pounds of water per
pound of dry air) doesn't change much.

I never realy get low humidity out doors, it is usualy 55 - 75 % and
for many a month 75%+ not enough of a variable in percentage to dry
anything especialy my basement...

Then again, you live next to a lake, and 55% air at 50 F has the same
moisture as 55exp(-9621(1/(50+460)-1/(70+460)) = 27% at 70 F. The calc
below says outdoor air is dry enough to keep a house below 60% at 70 F
for all but 360 hours in a Typical Meteorological Year in Philadelphia,
with at most 75 "wet hours" in a row near the end of July.

If moisture enters the house at say, 8 pints per day, it has to store
about 24 pints over 3 days to use ventilation for dehumidification in
Phila. Concrete stores about 1% moisture by weight as the RH of the
surrounding air increases from 40 to 60%, and it weighs about 150
lb/ft^3, so we might store 24 pounds of water in 2400 pounds (16 ft^3)
of concrete. Mold takes about 2 weeks to form, above 60% RH...

A serious ventilation controller would compare the energy needed for
dehumidification by ventilation with the energy needed by a
dehumidifier in winter and an air conditioner in summer, including the
energy needed to warm outdoor air in winter and cool it in summer, and
adapt to weather conditions to minimize energy usage.

20 PH=.6*EXP(17.863-9621/(70+460))'house vapor pressure ("Hg)
30 WH=.62198/(29.921/PH-1)'house humidity ratio
40 DAYSTART=150'display start time (days)
50 DS=DAYSTART*24'display start time (hours)
60 RANGE=3000'dISPLAY RANGE (HOURS)
70 LINE (0,0)-(639,349),,B:XDF=640/RANGE:YDF=3.88
80 FOR TR=60 TO 80 STEP 10'temp ref lines
90 LINE (0,349-YDF*(TR-10))-(639,349-YDF*(TR-10)):NEXT
100 CFM=2470'whole house window fan cfm (Lasko 2155A)
110 OPEN "ecayear" FOR INPUT AS #1:LINE INPUT#1,H$
120 FOR H=1 TO 8760'hours of typical (TMY2) year
130 INPUT#1,MONTH,DAY,HOUR,TDB,WIND,TDP,IGLOH,SS,WS,NS ,ES
140 PA=.6*EXP(17.863-9621/(TDP+460))'ambient vapor pressure ("Hg)
150 WA=.62198/(29.921/PA-1)'ambient humidity ratio
160 PSET(XDF*(H-DS),349-YDF*(TDB-10))
170 'PSET(XDF*(H-DS),349-YDF*(TDP-10))
180 IF WAWH THEN WETSTRING=0:GOTO 230'dry hour
190 WETHOURS=WETHOURS+1'accumulate wet hours
200 WETSTRING=WETSTRING+1'accumulate wet string length
210 IF WETSTRINGWETMAX THEN WETMAX=WETSTRING'measure max wet string
length
220 LINE (XDF*(H-DS),290)-(XDF*(H-DS),300)'mark wet hours
230 IF DAY=1 AND HOUR=.5 THEN LINE
(XDF*(H-DS),349)-(XDF*(H-DS),345)'tick months
240 NEXT H
250 PRINT WETHOURS,WETMAX

wet hours per year: 360
longest wet string: 75

Nick