wrote in message
...
Christopher A. Steele wrote:

Sometimes it gets so hot around here it's difficult to sleep at night
(to the point I sometimes have to get up two or three times to cool
off in the shower just to get comfortable for a few minutes).

Sir Turtle might suggest a space heater to raise the room temp to 95 F,
which he describes as "too cold," vs 60 F ("too hot" :-)

I'm curious: given 'x' ambient temperature in my bedroom at night (and
'y' relative humidity, I suppose) and closed bedroom windows and
doors, how do I calculate the amount of heat (heat load??) that has to
be 'removed' from my body so that I can sleep comfortably...

An ASHRAE-standard 154 pound human dissipates 253 Btu/h when sleeping.

Is there a formula?

Sure. ASHRAE-standard 55-2004 ("Thermal environmental conditions for human
occupancy") defines two "comfort zones," winter (with a clo = 1 clothing
thermal resistance) and summer (clo = 0.5.) Its BASIC program estimates
the Predicted Mean Vote (PMV: +3 hot, +2 warm, +1 slightly warm, 0 neutral,
-1 slightly cool, -2 cool, and -3 cold) and the Predicted Percentage
Dissatisfied (PPD) based on clothing, activity, metabolic rate, external
work, air temp, mean radiant temp, air velocity, and RH...

50 CLO = 1'clothing insulation (clo)
60 MET=1.1'metabolic rate (met)
70 WME=0'external work (met)
80 TA=19.6'air temp (C)
90 TR=19.6'mean radiant temp (C)
100 VEL=.1'air velocity (m/s)
120 RH=86'relative humidity (%) make one of RH or PA non-zero...
130 PA=0'water vapor pressure
140 DEF FNPS(T)=EXP(16.6536-4030.183/(TA+235))'sat vapor pressure, kPa
150 IF PA=0 THEN PA=RH*10*FNPS(TA)'water vapor pressure, Pa
160 ICL=.155*CLO'clothing resistance (m^2K/W)
170 M=MET*58.15'metabolic rate (W/m^2)
180 W=WME*58.15'external work in (W/m^2)
190 MW=M-W'internal heat production
200 IF ICL.078 THEN FCL=1+1.29*ICL ELSE FCL=1.05+.645*ICL'clothing factor
210 HCF=12.1*SQR(VEL)'forced convection conductance
220 TAA=TA+273'air temp (K)
230 TRA=TR+273'mean radiant temp (K)
250 TCLA=TAA+(35.5-TA)/(3.5*(6.45*ICL+.1))'est clothing temp
260 P1=ICL*FCL:P2=P1*3.96:P3=P1*100:P4=P1*TAA'intermed iate values
300 P5=308.7-.028*MW+P2*(TRA/100)^4
310 XN=TCLA/100
320 XF=XN
330 N=0'number of iterations
340 EPS=.00015'stop iteration when met
350 XF=(XF+XN)/2'natural convection conductance
360 HCN=2.38*ABS(100*XF-TAA)^.25
370 IF HCFHCN THEN HC=HCF ELSE HC=HCN
380 XN=(P5+P4*HC-P2*XF^4)/(100+P3*HC)
390 N=N+1
400 IF N150 GOTO 550
410 IF ABS(XN-XF)EPS GOTO 350
420 TCL=100*XN-273'clothing surface temp (C)
440 HL1=.00305*(5733-6.99*MW-PA)'heat loss diff through skin
450 IF MW58.15 THEN HL2=.42*(MW-58.15) ELSE HL2=0'heat loss by sweating
460 HL3=.000017*M*(5867-PA)'latent respiration heat loss
470 HL4=.0014*M*(34-TA)'dry respiration heat loss
480 HL5=3.96*FCL*(XN^4-(TRA/100)^4)'heat loss by radiation
490 HL6=FCL*HC*(TCL-TA)'heat loss by convection
510 TS=.303*EXP(-.036*M)+.028'thermal sensation transfer coefficient
520 PMV=TS*(MW-HL1-HL2-HL3-HL4-HL5-HL6)'predicted mean vote
530 PPD=100-95*EXP(-.03353*PMV^4-.2179*PMV^2)'predicted % dissatisfied
540 GOTO 580
550 PMV=99999!:PPD=100
580 PRINT TA,RH,CLO,PMV,PPD

T (C) RH clo PMV PPD

19.6 86 1 -.4778556 9.769089
23.9 66 1 .4732535 9.676994
25.7 15 1 .5239881 10.74283
21.2 20 1 -.4779105 9.770202
23.6 67 .5 -.4747404 9.706658
26.8 56 .5 .5145492 10.53611
27.9 13 .5 .5003051 10.23146
24.7 16 .5 -.4883473 9.982468

The first 4 lines are the winter comfort zone corners.
The second 4 lines are the summer comfort zone corners.

An average person is "comfortable" when the PMV = 0.

"Travis Jordan" writes:

The ASHRAE calculations for heat gain assume 600 BTU/H per person.
That's 150 calories / hour.

That works for large Btus.

mj writes:

Being uncomfortable typically has more to due with humidity than
temperature...

The ASHRAE 55-2004 comfort zone disagrees, based on surveys of 21,000 people.

Nick


This is Turtle.

if you can't explain %RH as to temperature that most people likes , you just
explaining what you think and have no ideal of the real world is thinking. You
sure quote the ASHRAE a lot but I wished you could understand it in real life
terms.

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool. What do you
think and don't try to justify your reply with references but explain it in real
life terms. Nick you live in a book and if I took your book away from you. You
would be speechless.

TURTLE

On Sun, 29 Aug 2004 01:11:03 -0500, "TURTLE"
wrote:


wrote in message
...
Christopher A. Steele wrote:

life terms. Nick you live in a book and if I took your book away from you. You
would be speechless.

TURTLE


Oh, by all means, take it away ! take it away !!!!



Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Nick

wrote in message
...
TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Nick


This is Turtle.

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays in the
comfort levels. I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have
60ºF with a 100%RH. Shut the Books up and get out and go see the system that are
running and get a Clue as to what is comforteriable or not.

TURTLE

Sir TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays
in the comfort levels.

I understand thoroughly, my good man. In this case, I'm afraid you are
the one lacking average empirical understanding, and an understanding
of the way surveys work.

I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have 60ºF
with a 100%RH.

OK. Everyone's tastes are different. There's nothing wrong with your
misunderstanding average human behavior. It's a matter of surveys and
preferences, vs absolute science. But you must admit facts. It's hard
to deny the average tastes of 21,000 people around the world :-)

Nick

In article ,
wrote:

Sir TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays
in the comfort levels.

I understand thoroughly, my good man. In this case, I'm afraid you are
the one lacking average empirical understanding, and an understanding
of the way surveys work.

I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have 60ºF
with a 100%RH.

OK. Everyone's tastes are different. There's nothing wrong with your
misunderstanding average human behavior. It's a matter of surveys and
preferences, vs absolute science. But you must admit facts. It's hard
to deny the average tastes of 21,000 people around the world :-)

Nick


Do those 21,000 people from around the world reflect your tastes?

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:08:41 -0700, Robert Morein
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Sir TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays
in the comfort levels.

I understand thoroughly, my good man. In this case, I'm afraid you are
the one lacking average empirical understanding, and an understanding
of the way surveys work.

I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have 60ºF
with a 100%RH.

OK. Everyone's tastes are different. There's nothing wrong with your
misunderstanding average human behavior. It's a matter of surveys and
preferences, vs absolute science. But you must admit facts. It's hard
to deny the average tastes of 21,000 people around the world :-)

Nick

10,000 flies can't all be wrong, Nick. So eat ****.



Do those 21,000 people from around the world reflect your tastes?


Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'

HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/
Free Temperature / Pressure charts for 38 Ref's http://pmilligan.net/pmtherm/

On Sun, 12 Sep 2004 21:08:41 -0700, Robert Morein
wrote:

In article ,
wrote:

Sir TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays
in the comfort levels.

I understand thoroughly, my good man. In this case, I'm afraid you are
the one lacking average empirical understanding, and an understanding
of the way surveys work.

I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have 60ºF
with a 100%RH.

OK. Everyone's tastes are different. There's nothing wrong with your
misunderstanding average human behavior. It's a matter of surveys and
preferences, vs absolute science. But you must admit facts. It's hard
to deny the average tastes of 21,000 people around the world :-)

Nick


Do those 21,000 people from around the world reflect your tastes?

Here is where statistics fail.

which 21,000 people?

Is the target random and unbiased?
It is not!

Only paramaters will do.
Statistics are, statistically, on a bias. g
Their results are slanted. They can err on many facets (sides, if you will).

On some days, I can be quite comfortable at 90 deg F and 70% RH, yet on
other days, I am sweltering 83 deg F and 60% RH or lower, AT THE SAME
ACTIVITY LEVEL! It naturally follows that sometimes I am ectstatic at 40 F
and 90 to 95% RH, while other times 50 deg F at 50% RH is too cold for me.

IOW, your mood, health, etc also comes into play.
Statistics just don't cut it.

This is why the comfort zones are based partly on parametric data, as opposed
to purely statistical data.

I think Nick is right. Your mileage may vary.





--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
The time to repair the roof is when the sun is shining
- JFK
~~~~~~~~

"Robert Morein" wrote in message
...
In article ,
wrote:

Sir TURTLE wrote:

Here is one for you. 5%RH or there about and 90ºF = pretty cool.
What do you think...

I'd say hot. So would ASHRAE, (Y = 1.79, with 67% of people
dissatisfied,
vs Y = 0, with 6% dissatisfied), based on 21,000 people around the
world,
who'd prefer adding some moisture to reduce the air temp, which might
come
from a swimming pool :-)

Imagine yourself in a 90 F office, in a dry shirt...

Still you living out of a book and do not understand the part %RH plays
in the comfort levels.

I understand thoroughly, my good man. In this case, I'm afraid you are
the one lacking average empirical understanding, and an understanding
of the way surveys work.

I would have 90ºF and a 10%RH in my home before I would have 60ºF
with a 100%RH.

OK. Everyone's tastes are different. There's nothing wrong with your
misunderstanding average human behavior. It's a matter of surveys and
preferences, vs absolute science. But you must admit facts. It's hard
to deny the average tastes of 21,000 people around the world :-)

Nick


Do those 21,000 people from around the world reflect your tastes?

In a properly done study, they most likely would. One would have to look
into other factors such as whether there were significant differences based
on nation or region or prevalence of air conditioning in those regions
compared to where you live. If the study was done properly, then it's
reasonable to assume that it will reflect the tastes of a typical person.

But I'm not the OP and I didn't read the study.