Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas. Can someone give me some
comparisons? Hopefully not Florida! Thanks.

In oups.com
"lavendula" wrote:

Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.

Just hope the rest of the winter stays as warm as it's been, but wait
'til next year; if you're in shock now, a "normal" winter would probably
kill you.

--
Bert Hyman St. Paul, MN

"lavendula" writes:

Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas.

Pasadena, CA:

$0.13 per KWH ($0.15 after adding all surcharges).
$1 per therm (with only 4 therms used, total price actually comes
to $2.44 per therm).

Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.

On 6 Jan 2007 10:38:11 -0800, "lavendula"
wrote:

Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas.

In western New York (on Lake Ontario), I'm paying a locked-in rate of
$1.05 per therm for gas and $.073 per Kwh. We're having an incredibly
mild and snowless winter so far, which I hate from a seasonal
perspective but love from an economic perspective. Your rates are
quite reasonable, in my view.

In article ,
says...
On 6 Jan 2007 10:38:11 -0800, "lavendula"
wrote:

Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas.

In western New York (on Lake Ontario), I'm paying a locked-in rate of
$1.05 per therm for gas and $.073 per Kwh. We're having an incredibly
mild and snowless winter so far, which I hate from a seasonal
perspective but love from an economic perspective. Your rates are
quite reasonable, in my view.

NW Vermont. Our gas is about the same ($1.05/therm, last I looked)
but electricity is about $.13/kWh. Great winter so far, frost is
out of the ground, it's 57F right now and was 61F yesterday. This
was the first green Christmas (though we got 4" a couple of days
later) in thirty years, or so I'm told.

This is our last winter here, so I'm happy it's a warm one. ;-)

--
Keith

In article .com,
"lavendula" wrote:

Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas. Can someone give me some
comparisons? Hopefully not Florida! Thanks.

I am also in Minnesota, in a 2100 square foot townhouse built
in 1998. End unit with a north-west exposure. Forced air gas
heat. I keep the temp set at 71 degrees year around, with the
A/C running from March to November, and the furnace fan running
all the time. I like it comfortable.

Gas = Center Point Energy, billing date 12/20/2006.
29 day reading, 47 therms at $1.046 per therm, plus a bunch
of fees, for a total of $56.97.

Electric = Dakota Electric Association, billing date
of 12/13/2006. 34 day reading, 801 kWh at 0.0725 plus fees
and taxes for a total of $73.91.

So, you are getting better rates on power and gas than I am.
Your usage must be out of whack. You didn't break down the
electric vrs gas, so I cannot tell where the issue is.

You say you have a new manufactured home. If this is a factory
built house that looks like a traditional house and sits on
a foundation, then I would say something is faulty. These
types of homes are normally insulated very well. If you mean
a trailer house, then that is your problem. Trailer houses
sit a few feet off of the ground. Cold air circulates under
them. They are grossly hard to heat as a result. Some people
pile up dirt or put layers of hay bales around these homes.
That helps, but it is ugly and expensive. The best bet is
to take this as a lesson, and start saving money to dig a
foundation. Putting it on a basement will help.

From there, you want to call your utility company and have
them come out and do an energy audit. They can put meters
on various appliances to see if something is drawing excessive
power. I would suspect your water heater of being a cheapie.
Maybe going with an electric storage unit would help. You
might have also been stuck with a 80% furnace if you didn't
go for the upgrade. 92% units are common today, and 96% to
98% units are available (but generally cost so much more that
the extra efficiency will take a long time to pay for, if
ever).

A last point to consider is if you have an attached garage.
Many folks go from the garage into the house, which acts like
an airlock to keep the cold air out when you open the door.
If you built without a garage, you likely open the entry door
to the outside each time, letting in lots of cold air. That
can really add up.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

"lavendula" wrote in message
oups.com...
Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas. Can someone give me some
comparisons? Hopefully not Florida! Thanks.


That'll buy a lot of long johns.

JC,
I read what Lavendula wrote and just wanted you to know that there is
a product we offer the home owner that you simply plug in to any wall
outlet in your home or office and save up to 25% on your Monthly
electric bill. Our website is www.kwattsaver.com. you can watch our 4
minute video that explaines how it works. Enjoy
Sincerely,
Jerry M.



J.C. wrote:
"lavendula" wrote in message
oups.com...
Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas. Can someone give me some
comparisons? Hopefully not Florida! Thanks.


That'll buy a lot of long johns.

[This followup was posted to misc.consumers.house and a copy was
sent to the cited author.]

In article . com,
says...
JC,
I read what Lavendula wrote and just wanted you to know that there is
a product we offer the home owner that you simply plug in to any wall
outlet in your home or office and save up to 25% on your Monthly
electric bill. Our website is www.kwattsaver.com. you can watch our 4
minute video that explaines how it works.

Lieing spammer! Your device *CANNOT* work.

Enjoy

Enjoy indeed! Everyone should turn you into your ISP so you're
silenced forever. Mine objection sent to:

X-Complaints-To: .

--
Keith

In article ,
krw wrote:

In article . com,
says...
JC,
I read what Lavendula wrote and just wanted you to know that there is
a product we offer the home owner that you simply plug in to any wall
outlet in your home or office and save up to 25% on your Monthly
electric bill. Our website is www.kwattsaver.com. you can watch our 4
minute video that explaines how it works.

Lieing spammer! Your device *CANNOT* work.

I don't like spam any more than you do, but I think you need
to go back and read more about the difference between resistive
loads and reactive loads in electrical engineering, and then
consider the difference between true power and apparent power.
By putting in the right combination of inductors and capacitors,
one can trick an electrical meter into showing a lower usage of
power than what it otherwise might indicate.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

"John A. Weeks III" writes:

I don't like spam any more than you do, but I think you need
to go back and read more about the difference between resistive
loads and reactive loads in electrical engineering, and then
consider the difference between true power and apparent power.
By putting in the right combination of inductors and capacitors,
one can trick an electrical meter into showing a lower usage of
power than what it otherwise might indicate.

Hi John,

Okay, I'll bite.

Real vs reactive power -- been there, done that, got the BSEE with
honors, and worked at an electric utility for a few years (albeit not
in distribution engineering, or metering). It's been a few years
though.

But before I jump onto the "bull****" chorus regarding the possible
efficacy of such devices, I'm going to invite a more detailed
explanation to see if I'm missing something.

We know inductive motor loads do pull more power (VA) than they use
(Watts), and that the elctrical system must supply the full reactive
power in VA. However, residential electric meters only measure real
power usage (Watts), hence the consumer actually ends up ahead in this
situation, getting to use the energy expended in reactive power for
free. Balancing the power factor, therefore is something that's only
in the electric utility's best interest. This is why you'll see
capactitor banks on long feeder runs, or at substations to balance out
the typically inductive load of the distribution system due to line
inductance, motor loads, and transformer loads.

Commercial power customers, unlike residential customers, do get hit
with surcharges by many utilities for presenting a load with a poor
power factor, but residential customers don't.

I invite someone with the proper depth of electrical knowledge to talk
me out of my opinion that these devices are nothing but snakeoil
though.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

"John A. Weeks III" wrote in news:john-
:

By putting in the right combination of inductors and capacitors,
one can trick an electrical meter into showing a lower usage of
power than what it otherwise might indicate.

Not true. If you look at the circuitry for watt-hour meters, you will see
that they measure true power, not apparent power. You can add all the
capacitors or inductors you want, but it won't make any difference to your
meter reading.

In article -
sjc.supernews.net, says...
In article ,
krw wrote:

In article . com,
says...
JC,
I read what Lavendula wrote and just wanted you to know that there is
a product we offer the home owner that you simply plug in to any wall
outlet in your home or office and save up to 25% on your Monthly
electric bill. Our website is www.kwattsaver.com. you can watch our 4
minute video that explaines how it works.

Lieing spammer! Your device *CANNOT* work.

I don't like spam any more than you do, but I think you need
to go back and read more about the difference between resistive
loads and reactive loads in electrical engineering, and then
consider the difference between true power and apparent power.

I am a BSEE, been practicing for more than 30 years. Now, please
do tell me something about reactive power. You do know that
residential customers are *NOT* charged for PF (that's "Power
Factor") don't you?

By putting in the right combination of inductors and capacitors,
one can trick an electrical meter into showing a lower usage of
power than what it otherwise might indicate.

You're simply as full of **** as the spammer. Power meters do
*NOT* react to reactive loads. They are *POWER* meters, not VA
meters.

--
Keith

On 6 Jan 2007 14:21:48 -0800, wrote:

I read what Lavendula wrote and just wanted you to know that there is
a product we offer the home owner that you simply plug in to any wall
outlet in your home or office and save up to 25% on your Monthly
electric bill. Our website is www.kwxxxxer.com. you can watch our 4
minute video that explaines how it works. Enjoy
Sincerely,
Jerry M.

The first paragraph was more than enough. And I thought snakeoil salesmen
were a thing of the past.

"In the layman's terms the Xpower cleans the dirty electricity that comes
to your home making it more efficient. Dirty electricity is full of spikes
and surges that would be wasted otherwise but the Xpower unit is able to
capture these and "recycle it"."

I'll bet that Jerry M. runs away with his tail between his legs rather than
trying to explain the physics that allows his device to do *anything*
useful.

"lavendula" writes:
Moved into this new house, manufactured home, 2400 square feet and
really nice, but I'm crying now. In November, I paid $305 for gas and
electric. This is Minnesota, but not as cold as you might imagine.
Paying .07 per Kwh and .876 per therm for gas. Can someone give me some
comparisons? Hopefully not Florida! Thanks.

I'm in Chicagoland, my Nov 15-Dec15 gas bill was 233 therms and the
bill was a pretty hefty 170.34, which would be $0.73/therm. Caveat:
the opening gas reading that month was estimated, so that usage might
not be strictly reflective of that date range. Electric 11/12 to
12/12 was 1084 kWh actual usage total bill $88.09, or 8cents/kWh. The
home is in the same ballpark of square footage if the assessment
square footage is to be belived.

Before freaking out, clarify a few questions:
How many days of usage? What date range? How many degree days

Were both readings for both utilities based on actual
readings, or were there estimated readings involved?

If this is a home you just moved into its possible you're paying for
more than a month of usage. It's also possible that one of the
readings was estimated, which can cause a bill that doesn't reflect
actual use of course.

At any rate, what you're paying seems to be about right given the size
of your home and given that Minnesota is colder than Chicagoland.

Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

Being a manufactured home, I guess you can't put more insulation in the
"attic". Also I think if you install a new furnace, it needs to be approved
for a manufactured home?

Anyway in general there are things you can do to reduce your energy use.
These things cost money, but will save in the long run.

- Buy new "Energy Star" appliances. They use less electricity or less hot
water.

- New gas furnaces are very efficient using less gas and electricity to run.

- Add more insulation.

- Use compact flourescent bulbs *everywhere*.

- Heat just your bedroom at night instead of whole house, Use electric space
heater. Saves money if you are using just one bedroom.

More tips...
http://www.energystar.gov

In article ,
"Bill" wrote:

Being a manufactured home, I guess you can't put more insulation in the
"attic". Also I think if you install a new furnace, it needs to be approved
for a manufactured home?

Wrong on both counts. Most manufactured homes are better insulated
than most stick built homes. Manufactured homes use the same everyday
appliances and heating systems that stick built homes use. If the
home is built with trusses, there is no reason that someone could not
put another layer of insulation up there. Then again, you find
cathedral ceilings in manufactured homes more often than stick built
homes, and those are nearly impossible to add insulation to.

People have a lot of negative stereotypes about manufactured homes.
In many cases, a typical person off the street could not tell the
difference between a manufactured home set up on a basement or pad
from a stick built home set on a similar basement or pad.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

FYI - from the following link: ["your manufactured home furnace is just
that - a manufactured home furnace. Specifically designed for your
manufactured home"]
http://www.bannerfuel.com/mfc_homes.html

Manufactured home heating and cooling products...
http://www.intertherm.net

And for the origional poster: Do you have an "attic" in your manufactured
home?


"John A. Weeks III" wrote in message

Wrong on both counts. Most manufactured homes are better insulated
than most stick built homes. Manufactured homes use the same everyday
appliances and heating systems that stick built homes use. If the
home is built with trusses, there is no reason that someone could not
put another layer of insulation up there. Then again, you find
cathedral ceilings in manufactured homes more often than stick built
homes, and those are nearly impossible to add insulation to.

People have a lot of negative stereotypes about manufactured homes.
In many cases, a typical person off the street could not tell the
difference between a manufactured home set up on a basement or pad
from a stick built home set on a similar basement or pad.

I'm Eau claire, WI.... 1600sq feet upper level, 1100sq feet finished
basement. The basement's not used often so I keep the vents closed
down there...

My november bills were only $140-160 or even less... this last bill for
a 39 day period was only $220.

Your bill sounds high to me unless you keep your lights on all day,
have large power hungry appliances, or don't use a programmable
thermostat.

I keep our programmable t-stat at 66 during the day, 68 in the evening,
and 61 from 11pm-6am. I have electric water heater as well..

good luck,

Tony B.