I bought a new house in Nov '02. Since then, I've done some remodeling:

1) installed recessed lights & bathroom vents
2) installed a pocket door
3) installed in-ceiling speakers
4) installed tile flooring
5) did the backyard

Lets see...

1) for the recessed lights & bathroom vents, I had to fix drywall and
repaint in just about every room they went into (and somehow in some they
didn't!!). The drywall guy they recommended did a horrible job and I had to
have it redone by THREE DIFFERENT people before it looked decent. Also had
to clean the carpets.

2) wow, lets not even get into this one too much. nobody really wanted to do
it, even for $1500 which seemed to be the general estimate. finally one
"handy man" decided to do it... he never showed up half the time, it was
starting to take 3 times as long as he said and the work was horrible. Walls
were crooked, light switches were crooked, he ruined the carpet in one room
(by SLASHING IT WITH A KNIFE) and he damaged the floor in the bathroom. I
had enough and just fired him. His idea of patching drywall involved
literally SMEARING mud on the wall like a child finger painting. It ended up
costing me close to $4000 to repair all his damage and finishing the job.

3) the guy who put in the in-ceiling speakers well, lets just say he had no
problem cutting holes in drywall.. about 10 of them in a single room.
Another thousand to repair his damage.

4) the tile flooring guys came on time and only took a day or two longer
then they said, but they damaged every wall they got near and stained the
carpet, and somehow got grout on the OUTSIDE of a 2nd story window!!!

5) the backyard guy kept "forgetting" to come by to give me an estimate...
after about 5 times he finally came by, and when I asked to keep his plan so
I could show it to my parents who were coming over the weekend, he accused
me of stealing his design and not hiring him for the job. Even though I did
end up hiring him. He did a decent job I suppose.

Now the latest adventure... I have a steel entry door that warped... the
builder wouldn't talk to me, the installer ended up giving me a new door but
charged for the labor (since the house is out of warranty) and wouldn't
paint it.

So again, nobody would want to come out and paint it... one guy said he
would but then called with the typical 'my truck broke down'. Finally found
a guy to do it yesterday... "he got busy" so had to reschedule for today...
good thing I took a day off yesterday...sigh...

So finally they paint it today... good lord... they don't bother to take the
door hardware off, so its covered with paint. The rest of the door is
covered with drips, and "levels" and blisters... this handyman says "oh,
that's normal"... uh...

I wonder how much time and money it'll take me to fix this door. I'm already
in the hole $150 for the labor to install it and $200 for this painter, who
I aint paying a dime to until its perfect. I should have just kept the
warped door.

These people are all f*cken idiots...

Or I should have just painted the door myself... I was going to if this guy
didn't show up today... looks like I made the wrong decision letting him do
it.

In article zeA3f.15532$fE5.336@fed1read06, "Nobody"
wrote:

I bought a new house in Nov '02. Since then, I've done some remodeling:

1) installed recessed lights & bathroom vents
2) installed a pocket door
3) installed in-ceiling speakers
4) installed tile flooring
5) did the backyard

Lets see...

1) for the recessed lights & bathroom vents, I had to fix drywall and
repaint in just about every room they went into (and somehow in some they
didn't!!). The drywall guy they recommended did a horrible job and I had to
have it redone by THREE DIFFERENT people before it looked decent. Also had
to clean the carpets.

If it's a builder fault, why didn't you get it fixed sooner?



2) wow, lets not even get into this one too much. nobody really wanted to do
it, even for $1500 which seemed to be the general estimate. finally one
"handy man" decided to do it... he never showed up half the time, it was
starting to take 3 times as long as he said and the work was horrible. Walls
were crooked, light switches were crooked, he ruined the carpet in one room
(by SLASHING IT WITH A KNIFE) and he damaged the floor in the bathroom. I
had enough and just fired him. His idea of patching drywall involved
literally SMEARING mud on the wall like a child finger painting. It ended up
costing me close to $4000 to repair all his damage and finishing the job.

This was by a licensed contractor? How did your small claims case
against them resolve?


3) the guy who put in the in-ceiling speakers well, lets just say he had no
problem cutting holes in drywall.. about 10 of them in a single room.
Another thousand to repair his damage.

This was by a licensed contractor? How did your small claims case
against them resolve?



4) the tile flooring guys came on time and only took a day or two longer
then they said, but they damaged every wall they got near and stained the
carpet, and somehow got grout on the OUTSIDE of a 2nd story window!!!

This was by a licensed contractor? How did your small claims case
against them resolve?



5) the backyard guy kept "forgetting" to come by to give me an estimate...
after about 5 times he finally came by, and when I asked to keep his plan so
I could show it to my parents who were coming over the weekend, he accused
me of stealing his design and not hiring him for the job. Even though I did
end up hiring him. He did a decent job I suppose.

You let him slide 5 times and still hired him and then he had the
unmitigated gall to actually do a decent job?




Now the latest adventure... I have a steel entry door that warped... the
builder wouldn't talk to me, the installer ended up giving me a new door but
charged for the labor (since the house is out of warranty) and wouldn't
paint it.

So again, nobody would want to come out and paint it... one guy said he
would but then called with the typical 'my truck broke down'. Finally found
a guy to do it yesterday... "he got busy" so had to reschedule for today...
good thing I took a day off yesterday...sigh...

So finally they paint it today... good lord... they don't bother to take the
door hardware off, so its covered with paint. The rest of the door is
covered with drips, and "levels" and blisters... this handyman says "oh,
that's normal"... uh...

I wonder how much time and money it'll take me to fix this door. I'm already
in the hole $150 for the labor to install it and $200 for this painter, who
I aint paying a dime to until its perfect. I should have just kept the
warped door.


This was by a licensed contractor? How did your small claims case
against them resolve?


These people are all f*cken idiots...

As opposed to you who keep hiring incompetents and not suing them for
repairs?



Or I should have just painted the door myself... I was going to if this guy
didn't show up today... looks like I made the wrong decision letting him do
it.

It's obvious that you think you could do better, but it must not have
been or you would have done it yourself.

"Nobody" writes:

These people are all f*cken idiots...

Yeah. It sucks.

It helps to get to know your neighbors, build a network, and find out
who's good and reliable before inviting these trades folks into your
home.

There are an awful lot of folks making a living doing really ****ty
work with really ****ty customer service skills. The good and
reliable folks generally don't want to deal with every new pain inthe
ass homeowner, and gravitate instead to larger jobs.


Best Regards,
--
Todd H.
http://www.toddh.net/

(Todd H.) writes:

Yeah. It sucks.
....

There are an awful lot of folks making a living doing really ****ty
work with really ****ty customer service skills. The good and
reliable folks generally don't want to deal with every new pain inthe
ass homeowner, and gravitate instead to larger jobs.

This has been a mystery to me for some time.

How is it that in a capitalist society there isn't someone who can
fix this problem? Hire well-qualified people, have stringent quality
control, make sure they are all on time, and charge 20% over the
"going rate". I'd pay 20% extra just to know that the guy will show
up and I wouldn't waste the day waiting for him, and several people
I know would gladly do the same. The word would get out, and this
company would put all the "****ty work" people out of business.

And yet this isn't happening. Instead we endure contractors who do
****ty work, don't show up and don't call, wouldn't even give an
estimate for "small" jobs, etc. etc.

Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)? It's hard to
believe that. Besides, painting a door is not rocket science. I am
sure I could master the skill (after all the programming jobs are
outsourced to India

Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.

After taking my car back to the garage 3 times and not having it fixed
properly, I learned to fix it myself....

Recently I called various contractors/HVAC to install a wood stove chimney
for me. After waiting several times for people who did not show up, and
waiting for calls which were never returned, I did the work myself. I'm glad
I did because I did a much better job than they would have.

It just took me time to learn how to do these things is all and purchase the
tools needed. It's not rocket science. And of course once I learn to do
something myself, I'll never again be calling for someone else to do any
work which is similar, since I now have the tools required. Note: I also got
the required permits for the chimney, etc. The inspector said nice job...

Paul Pluzhnikov writes:
Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)?

Yes.

In article ,
Paul Pluzhnikov wrote:

How is it that in a capitalist society there isn't someone who can
fix this problem? Hire well-qualified people, have stringent quality
control, make sure they are all on time, and charge 20% over the
"going rate". I'd pay 20% extra just to know that the guy will show
up and I wouldn't waste the day waiting for him, and several people
I know would gladly do the same. The word would get out, and this
company would put all the "****ty work" people out of business.

There are lots of well qualified people that do good work.
The problem is that there is currently a large shortage of
people due to the building boom. If you are a talented
tradesperson, who would you want to deal with...joe public
who has one job for you and is trying to chisel the price,
or jack builder who promises a stream of work that will
keep you busy for a year or more? No talented tradesperson
is going to waste money dealing with consumers and doing
little projects here and there when there is big money to
be made in finishing starter castles for large scale builders.

Your idea of paying 20% over is on the right track. But
you haven't factored in risk. If the tradesperson stops
working for jack major builder to do your little job, he
risks losing the jack major builder contract. That could
cost a year of revenue. The tradesperson would have to
get at least double for your job to even make it worthwhile
to take the time to come talk with you.

-john-

--
================================================== ====================
John A. Weeks III 952-432-2708
Newave Communications http://www.johnweeks.com
================================================== ====================

On Thu, 13 Oct 2005 14:22:49 -0700, "Nobody" wrote:


1) for the recessed lights & bathroom vents, I had to fix drywall and
repaint in just about every room they went into (and somehow in some they
didn't!!). The drywall guy they recommended did a horrible job and I had to
have it redone by THREE DIFFERENT people before it looked decent. Also had
to clean the carpets.

2) wow, lets not even get into this one too much. nobody really wanted to do
it, even for $1500 which seemed to be the general estimate. finally one
"handy man" decided to do it... he never showed up half the time, it was
starting to take 3 times as long as he said and the work was horrible. Walls
were crooked, light switches were crooked, he ruined the carpet in one room
(by SLASHING IT WITH A KNIFE) and he damaged the floor in the bathroom. I
had enough and just fired him. His idea of patching drywall involved
literally SMEARING mud on the wall like a child finger painting. It ended up
costing me close to $4000 to repair all his damage and finishing the job.

3) the guy who put in the in-ceiling speakers well, lets just say he had no
problem cutting holes in drywall.. about 10 of them in a single room.
Another thousand to repair his damage.

4) the tile flooring guys came on time and only took a day or two longer
then they said, but they damaged every wall they got near and stained the
carpet, and somehow got grout on the OUTSIDE of a 2nd story window!!!

5) the backyard guy kept "forgetting" to come by to give me an estimate...
after about 5 times he finally came by, and when I asked to keep his plan so
I could show it to my parents who were coming over the weekend, he accused
me of stealing his design and not hiring him for the job. Even though I did
end up hiring him. He did a decent job I suppose.

Now the latest adventure... I have a steel entry door that warped... the
builder wouldn't talk to me, the installer ended up giving me a new door but
charged for the labor (since the house is out of warranty) and wouldn't
paint it.


The good ones don't need more work, so you get the ousy ones because
they return calls. One lesson to learn: if you don't need someting
done badly enough to do it yourself, leave it lay.

The last job I hired out was siding, windows and gutters on our
25-year-old house. The guy I wanted took about five months from the
time I called him until he started the job. I'd done work for him
before and knew his mother-in-law, so I was confident he was the guy I
wanted. He did a great job, could've done a little better at picking
up nails that probably flew when the gutters were removed, but other
than that I have no complaints.

In article , John A. Weeks III
says...

In article ,
Paul Pluzhnikov wrote:

How is it that in a capitalist society there isn't someone who can
fix this problem? Hire well-qualified people, have stringent quality
control, make sure they are all on time, and charge 20% over the
"going rate". I'd pay 20% extra just to know that the guy will show
up and I wouldn't waste the day waiting for him, and several people
I know would gladly do the same. The word would get out, and this
company would put all the "****ty work" people out of business.

There are lots of well qualified people that do good work.
The problem is that there is currently a large shortage of
people due to the building boom. If you are a talented
tradesperson, who would you want to deal with...joe public
who has one job for you and is trying to chisel the price,
or jack builder who promises a stream of work that will
keep you busy for a year or more? No talented tradesperson
is going to waste money dealing with consumers and doing
little projects here and there when there is big money to
be made in finishing starter castles for large scale builders.

Your idea of paying 20% over is on the right track. But
you haven't factored in risk. If the tradesperson stops
working for jack major builder to do your little job, he
risks losing the jack major builder contract. That could
cost a year of revenue. The tradesperson would have to
get at least double for your job to even make it worthwhile
to take the time to come talk with you.

I've had better luck, partly because I built a relationship with a really good
general contractor before the boom. But, yeah, he's not the cheapest. He's
totally word-of-mouth now, and I've had two friends initially collect bids on
jobs, find him on the high side, and go with him anyway. Some of the OP's
problem may be a problem with going with bottom bidder. If you don't really
know the contractors (new to the area, perhaps), a rule of thumb is do three,
and tend to the middle. The bottom guy may be cutting corners, the top guy may
not really want the job unless he can sucker you. Or maybe not - it's just a
rule of thumb. BTW this particualr guy is kind of bad about schedule. Over the
past eight years I know why - he just can't stand cutting corners to finish a
job. Might not be the right guy for a lot of people (if you want to have your
new bathroom before MIL visits so that you can impress her - well, dont' hire
this guy, but, hey, I don't worry so much about that stuff.)

I don't go by references unless I *really* know the reference personally. If
you ask a contractor for reference, sure, they all got a bunch of good
references from people you don't know and might owe them favors. So what.

I tend strongly to go with the bidder with whom I find good communication. I
recently with the high-side bid (by more than I really want to think about....
:-/ ) for an extensive foundation repair job. I might have been suckered a bit
as to price, but I tell you, this was the guy that was all over the job when he
looked at it, listened and talked, didn't try to add on, and wanted right away
to talk to the engineer who I had hired earlier to look at the problem (frost
heaving, totally inadequate footer, house built before code). So I went with
him. Job went well. He was on schedule, coordinated all the excavation, all
the materials, all the pouring, smooth as silk, and had a pleasant crew to boot
(including his wife doing a lot of the pointing!). BTW, this mason is also
totally word-of-mouth - I knew about him only because I used him *years* ago for
a little parging job.

There's a lot to be said for the customer being flexible and realistic in
attitiude. I think the contractors are vetting the customer, too, and can pick
up on some things just like I can pick up on some things while I talk to a guy
during an estimate.

I dunno - one can't of course always know these things, it's a bit of a leap of
faith. But if one repeatedly has problems, one should look at what one is
doing wrong. And I dont' think it's possible to expect to always get the
optimal quality vs. price. I certainly can't swear that I have! Over the long
run, though, I think a bias for apparent quality is the best value.

I'm in an area which is hugely booming as far as new construction, BTW.

Banty

Yeah. It sucks.

It helps to get to know your neighbors, build a network, and find out
who's good and reliable before inviting these trades folks into your
home.

There are an awful lot of folks making a living doing really ****ty
work with really ****ty customer service skills. The good and
reliable folks generally don't want to deal with every new pain inthe
ass homeowner, and gravitate instead to larger jobs.

Well, I've only stumbled onto one drywall guy that I'd invite back for more
work. Everyone else I've had do work for me, forget about it. Actually to be
fair, I'd probably invite a carpenter/painter duo that did part of the
repair on the ill-fated pocket door fiasco.

You are right though, its really hard to get people to come out. I've
definitely gotta be more picky about who I hire. But there is the issue that
I get turned off big time when I hear "I can do it, but in 3 weeks". But
probably those are the good people lol.

Yeah. It sucks.
...

There are an awful lot of folks making a living doing really ****ty
work with really ****ty customer service skills. The good and
reliable folks generally don't want to deal with every new pain inthe
ass homeowner, and gravitate instead to larger jobs.

This has been a mystery to me for some time.

How is it that in a capitalist society there isn't someone who can
fix this problem? Hire well-qualified people, have stringent quality
control, make sure they are all on time, and charge 20% over the
"going rate". I'd pay 20% extra just to know that the guy will show
up and I wouldn't waste the day waiting for him, and several people
I know would gladly do the same. The word would get out, and this
company would put all the "****ty work" people out of business.

And yet this isn't happening. Instead we endure contractors who do
****ty work, don't show up and don't call, wouldn't even give an
estimate for "small" jobs, etc. etc.

Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)? It's hard to
believe that. Besides, painting a door is not rocket science. I am
sure I could master the skill (after all the programming jobs are
outsourced to India

Cheers,
--
In order to understand recursion you must first understand recursion.
Remove /-nsp/ for email.

From my experience, unless you are hiring a very specific "small project"
trade like electrical or plumbing, its very difficult to get people to come
out for smaller jobs. You've gotta resort to these idiot "handymen".

Suing everyone who does crappy work like another poster suggested might
sound great in theory, but are you really going to do that in practice?
probably you'd spend more time and money going after someone for $500 then
its worth. If we are talking a larger project, of course... but since small
claims is limited to what, $1500? $2000?, thats not even worth it for all
the hassle of filing a claim. And they know that, thats why they get away
with it.

Some people may tell you "check references", well, thats about as useful as
checking references when you are hiring someone for a white collar position.

Think about it... if you are applying for a white collar job, and the
company asks for references, do you give them references that'll paint a
REAL PICTURE of you? HELL NO. You are going to give them the best possible
picture. Same with these guys, references they give you are probably best
friends or family members. You aren't usually going to be able to see the
work they do either. So there really isn't anyway to check them out.

Unless as another poster suggested, the references are from your friends or
people you trust.

My bosses at work use this handy man that they swear by. Some how they can
get him on a moments notice, but when I called him once, he told me he had a
7 week back log.

There are lots of well qualified people that do good work.
The problem is that there is currently a large shortage of
people due to the building boom. If you are a talented
tradesperson, who would you want to deal with...joe public
who has one job for you and is trying to chisel the price,
or jack builder who promises a stream of work that will
keep you busy for a year or more? No talented tradesperson
is going to waste money dealing with consumers and doing
little projects here and there when there is big money to
be made in finishing starter castles for large scale builders.

Except of course that a lot of the people that work for builders suck too. I
bought my house new from a MAJOR builder... K.Hov, and a lot of the work
done was horrible. Crooked walls, buldged drywall, horrible drywall work,
poor attention to detail. In fact, one electrical outlet was installed over
5" too high. I was coming to the house every week to check on the work and
would point out stuff. They fixed the majority of the stuff, but as another
poster said, for most people, getting people to work on your house is a huge
hassle. They work the same time we do. So you have to take a day off for
this crap and they end up not even showing up.

I'm going to start doing a lot of the small projects myself. That seems like
the best way.

In article 55S3f.15717$fE5.3316@fed1read06, Nobody says...



You are right though, its really hard to get people to come out. I've
definitely gotta be more picky about who I hire. But there is the issue that
I get turned off big time when I hear "I can do it, but in 3 weeks". But
probably those are the good people lol.



You may be beginning to figure this out.

Banty

I've had better luck, partly because I built a relationship with a really
good
general contractor before the boom. But, yeah, he's not the cheapest.
He's
totally word-of-mouth now, and I've had two friends initially collect bids
on
jobs, find him on the high side, and go with him anyway. Some of the OP's
problem may be a problem with going with bottom bidder. If you don't
really
know the contractors (new to the area, perhaps), a rule of thumb is do
three,
and tend to the middle. The bottom guy may be cutting corners, the top
guy may
not really want the job unless he can sucker you. Or maybe not - it's
just a
rule of thumb. BTW this particualr guy is kind of bad about schedule.
Over the
past eight years I know why - he just can't stand cutting corners to
finish a
job. Might not be the right guy for a lot of people (if you want to have
your
new bathroom before MIL visits so that you can impress her - well, dont'
hire
this guy, but, hey, I don't worry so much about that stuff.)

I don't go by references unless I *really* know the reference personally.
If
you ask a contractor for reference, sure, they all got a bunch of good
references from people you don't know and might owe them favors. So what.

I tend strongly to go with the bidder with whom I find good communication.
I
recently with the high-side bid (by more than I really want to think
about....
:-/ ) for an extensive foundation repair job. I might have been suckered
a bit
as to price, but I tell you, this was the guy that was all over the job
when he
looked at it, listened and talked, didn't try to add on, and wanted right
away
to talk to the engineer who I had hired earlier to look at the problem
(frost
heaving, totally inadequate footer, house built before code). So I went
with
him. Job went well. He was on schedule, coordinated all the
excavation, all
the materials, all the pouring, smooth as silk, and had a pleasant crew to
boot
(including his wife doing a lot of the pointing!). BTW, this mason is
also
totally word-of-mouth - I knew about him only because I used him *years*
ago for
a little parging job.

There's a lot to be said for the customer being flexible and realistic in
attitiude. I think the contractors are vetting the customer, too, and can
pick
up on some things just like I can pick up on some things while I talk to a
guy
during an estimate.

I dunno - one can't of course always know these things, it's a bit of a
leap of
faith. But if one repeatedly has problems, one should look at what one
is
doing wrong. And I dont' think it's possible to expect to always get the
optimal quality vs. price. I certainly can't swear that I have! Over the
long
run, though, I think a bias for apparent quality is the best value.

I'm in an area which is hugely booming as far as new construction, BTW.

Banty


Yeah, you gotta know the refs personally or they dont mean jack. I wasn't
going with the lowest bidder per say. The problem with the smaller jobs is
that a lot of times you can't find anyone to come out. People that work on
larger jobs are just as sloppy and flaky. I had a $2000 electrical job and
an $8000+ tile job and while both did good work and showed up reliably when
they said they would, they both left the house is huge disarray.

Another problem is that "a jack of all trades" handy man, is usually
horrible all around. A single guy that works is going to have a tough time
getting a carpenter to come in to do something, then getting a painter to
come in to do something, etc. Acting as a general contractor.

"Bill" wrote in message
...
After taking my car back to the garage 3 times and not having it fixed
properly, I learned to fix it myself....

Recently I called various contractors/HVAC to install a wood stove chimney
for me. After waiting several times for people who did not show up, and
waiting for calls which were never returned, I did the work myself. I'm
glad I did because I did a much better job than they would have.

It just took me time to learn how to do these things is all and purchase
the tools needed. It's not rocket science. And of course once I learn to
do something myself, I'll never again be calling for someone else to do
any work which is similar, since I now have the tools required. Note: I
also got the required permits for the chimney, etc. The inspector said
nice job...


Yeah... I was always of the mentality "I'm kind of lazy and these guys are
professionals"... LOL, guess I'm wrong on the 2nd part. Sometimes you'll get
a really good guy like a drywall guy I stumbled across in the pennysaver,
but that was the 5th drywall guy I had do work for me.

Another issue is that you are sometimes scared to tackle projects because
you can cause more harm then good.

In article QnS3f.15720$fE5.8134@fed1read06, Nobody says...


I dunno - one can't of course always know these things, it's a bit of a
leap of
faith. But if one repeatedly has problems, one should look at what one
is
doing wrong. And I dont' think it's possible to expect to always get the
optimal quality vs. price. I certainly can't swear that I have! Over the
long
run, though, I think a bias for apparent quality is the best value.

I'm in an area which is hugely booming as far as new construction, BTW.

Banty


Yeah, you gotta know the refs personally or they dont mean jack. I wasn't
going with the lowest bidder per say. The problem with the smaller jobs is
that a lot of times you can't find anyone to come out. People that work on
larger jobs are just as sloppy and flaky. I had a $2000 electrical job and
an $8000+ tile job and while both did good work and showed up reliably when
they said they would, they both left the house is huge disarray.

OK you don't go for low bid, but you *have* indicated that you go for the guy
who can do the job immediately. So consider getting bids from the contractors
who tell you they can't start right away. After all, that right there tells you
that:
1. He's honest about schedule
2. He has other customers and he's busy

These days, those are two positive facts. Not all you need to know, of course,
but you're impatient, at the least, you won't get to talk to the contractors in
#2 category.

Are you really usually in a hurry?

Like I said in my post, these days, *you* as a customer are getting vetted, too.
It pays to take a flexible tack.

As to the jobs being small, one thing that I've done is to combine jobs. How I
met my favorite contractor is that I really needed three doors done pretty soon.
I decided to have two more that would have to be upgraded "down the road" and
added them to the job (like, getting the perfectly functional but older and
out-of-code inside garage door upgraded to a fire safe steel door).

Then spread out the work you need done. Sounds like you're running around
trying to get a lot of little stuff done immediately. Make an assessment of
what you'll need done in the house as a whole, and think about how you'll spread
it out through the years.

Banty

Another issue is that you are sometimes scared to tackle projects because
you can cause more harm then good.


you probably won't do worse than some of the people you might hire.

I have been in my house 20 years. I have never had an electrician nor
plumber do any repairs, nor have I spent a day waiting for someone to show
up. I have had to repair a number of valves and I have remodeled a
bathroom. I always pull a homeowners electric permit and get the work
inspected.

Break down the projects into segments that you can accomplish on a Saturday
morning and you will get stuff done and at a higher quality. Not to mention
the gratification.

-David

"Nobody" wrote in message
news:OcS3f.15718$fE5.10333@fed1read06...

Yeah. It sucks.
...

(snip)

My bosses at work use this handy man that they swear by. Some how they can
get him on a moments notice, but when I called him once, he told me he had
a
7 week back log.

Well, this is one of the best arguments against door-to-door siding
salesmen- in the building trades, like most skilled jobs, the good ones
don't have to look for work, work looks for them. If there is significant
volume of custom (non-cookie-cutter) homes being built in your area, most of
the good guys and crews will be tied up there. Can't blame the tradesman-
you give first priority to your repeat customers, and fit the others in
around the edges, when and if you can. Best bet for homeowners is a
semi-retired guy, that doesn't wanna work 40-50 hour weeks any more, and
take off during hunting/fishing seasons. My father's company had one guy
like that- worked about 40 weeks a year, doing finish trim and cabinetry
only. He was too good to waste on framing, although he never hesitated to
mentor the kids on site (like me), about how that was supposed to be done,
when needed. Never did find out what happened to him after my father's
company went belly up- it he didn't really retire, I'm sure one of the other
custom buiders snapped the guy up.

aem sends...

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
...
Paul Pluzhnikov writes:
Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)?

Yes.

Again, though, a capitalist system should take care of this. If there is
not enough supply to satisfy demand, prices should go up until there is
enough supply.

"daslf" writes:
"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
.. .
Paul Pluzhnikov writes:
Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)?

Yes.

Again, though, a capitalist system should take care of this. If there is
not enough supply to satisfy demand, prices should go up until there is
enough supply.

This only comes even close to working the way you learned it in your
introductory economics class :-) if there's only one market for the
commodity.

As others have explained in this thread, to make it worthwhile for a
good tradesman to give up a good gig with a contractor and work on a
private job instead, the money for the private job would have to be
*much* higher than the money he's making working for the contractor.

In other words, there are more than one market for the services
provided by good tradesmen. The contractor market is on a different
price scale than the private job market, and the people causing demand
in the private job market aren't, in general, able or willing to pay
enough to compete with the price scale of the contractor market.

In article , daslf
wrote:

Again, though, a capitalist system should take care of this. If there is
not enough supply to satisfy demand, prices should go up until there is
enough supply.

The solution to high prices is high prices.

--
Life. Nature's way of keeping meat fresh. -- Dr. Who

Nobody wrote:
There are lots of well qualified people that do good work.
The problem is that there is currently a large shortage of
people due to the building boom. If you are a talented
tradesperson, who would you want to deal with...joe public
who has one job for you and is trying to chisel the price,
or jack builder who promises a stream of work that will
keep you busy for a year or more? No talented tradesperson
is going to waste money dealing with consumers and doing
little projects here and there when there is big money to
be made in finishing starter castles for large scale builders.

Except of course that a lot of the people that work for builders suck too. I
bought my house new from a MAJOR builder... K.Hov, and a lot of the work
done was horrible. Crooked walls, buldged drywall, horrible drywall work,
poor attention to detail. In fact, one electrical outlet was installed over
5" too high. I was coming to the house every week to check on the work and
would point out stuff. They fixed the majority of the stuff, but as another
poster said, for most people, getting people to work on your house is a huge
hassle. They work the same time we do. So you have to take a day off for
this crap and they end up not even showing up.

The same thing has happened to me in the construction of my new home by a company called Americas home Place. awful work, never on time failed inspections. Delays on delays. 18 months to finish the home. I had nowhere to live and had to live in a small camper with the wife and kids for 9 months. If ya want to hear more or have any knowlage of AHP Email me directly. See my post on Google under Americas Home Place. My dream home has turned into a nightmare! Steve

"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
...
"daslf" writes:
"Jonathan Kamens" wrote in message
. ..
Paul Pluzhnikov writes:
Is it because everyone who is any good is already so booked up that
they don't need any extra work (and extra money)?

Yes.

Again, though, a capitalist system should take care of this. If there is
not enough supply to satisfy demand, prices should go up until there is
enough supply.

This only comes even close to working the way you learned it in your
introductory economics class :-) if there's only one market for the
commodity.

As others have explained in this thread, to make it worthwhile for a
good tradesman to give up a good gig with a contractor and work on a
private job instead, the money for the private job would have to be
*much* higher than the money he's making working for the contractor.

In other words, there are more than one market for the services
provided by good tradesmen. The contractor market is on a different
price scale than the private job market, and the people causing demand
in the private job market aren't, in general, able or willing to pay
enough to compete with the price scale of the contractor market.

That's all I'm saying--if people are willing/able to pay enough, there will
be workers for them. And, I didn't even have an economics class--it's just
common sense.