hi,

we are buying a new home from a prominent builder in NJ. The builder
has handed us a sheet with all the options and upgrades and a price
sheet. Can some one let us know about the Dos and Donts for the
upgrades and options. what are the options we should take and what can
be avoided and done later on. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

dan

IMO do the ones that relate to the structure of the house, like if you
want a family room that's 4' wider than normal, it's far easier to do
that at build time because of the permits etc. or a fireplace, or a
3-car garage. the other ones it's hard to say. carpet and cabinets
can always be upgraded later but you don't want to live with crummy
cabinetry while you wait for it to wear out.

if they have an energy efficiency thing (double wall construction) i'd
consider that, i think energy prices are going to continue to climb
rapidly.

(also when they build it make sure they do the Tyvek wrap correctly, if
you don't know what this means, find out)

Hi Dan,

Where in NJ? I have gone through this twice in NJ, so here's my advice:

Basically, you want to buy those upgrades that would be much more
expensive or impossible to do later.
Example: My builders offers an extra course in the basement (making the
basement 10 in. taller) Obviously, this can not be done once the house
is built. So I paid. Fireplace is another example. If you have
cathedral ceilings and want recessed lighting, pay for that as well.
Electricians will charge more later for hard to reach places. Tyvek
wrap is a good idea too, but I was told that it can't be done in those
places where you are having stone or brickfront put on. Some other
upgrades I would recommend a

1.) Garage ceiling receptacles (If you have a high ceiling there,
should be only $60-70 a piece)
2.) Chaser pipe (or two, makes any future wiring a snap)
3.) If you have a walkout basement, order extra window (cost me $700
for a double)
4.) Roof fan or attaic fan
5.) Water heater size upgrade (depending on the size of your family)
6.) KITCHEN EXAUST( Most new construction homes (at least in NJ) come
standard) with circulated vent i.e. kitchen smells never leave the
house! If you're planning to re-do the kitchen later, then don't do it,
as you may not know where the stove will be)

That's all I can think of for now. But keep in mind, in some towns in
NJ (like mine) taxes on new construction are assesed by the TOTAL price
of the purchased home. Which means more upgrades=more taxes. That's why
we took the crappiest kitchen the builder offerend and will redo it
before moving in with an outside contractor.

Good Luck and congratulations!

Igor.

Also think of how much time you have to give towards upgrades in the
future. If you work too much and won't be there, upgrading later is
not for you.

I agree with most of what's already been said. I would also add that
I've seen many cases where for what the builder charges for an upgrade,
eg better carpet, you can find better carpet and more choices elsewhere
for the same price or less than the builder is charging for the
upgrade. In some cases, the builder will give you a credit, which
usually doesn't amount to much, and leave the carpet out, so you can
have it installed on your own.

I was going on assumption that future upgrades will be done by
contractors, not by yourself. Although just dealing with all this is
also somewhat time consuming.

As far as "credit" goes, I never took it.

When I decided to put in my own hard wood floors instead of the crappy
carpet builder gave me, I asked him to roll up the carpet and padding
and just leave it there, instead of giving me the $100 credit for the
WHOLE first floor... I later used this carpet in the basement.

"But keep in mind, in some towns in NJ (like mine) taxes on new
construction are assesed by the TOTAL price
of the purchased home. That's why we took the crappiest kitchen the
builder offerend and will redo it
before moving in with an outside contractor. "

It's hard to imaging how you're ever going to come out ahead with that
scheme. For one thing, it's up to the local tax assessor to determine
the assessed value of new construction, based on many factors. I
don't believe that it's automatically the total purchase price, though
they may be doing that in your town.

Then there is the second issue, that NJ law requires periodic
revalutation of the entire municipality. So, one day your house is
going to be revalued, including an inside inspection and any real
estate tax savings will only be temporary. How soon it gets revalued
depends on a lot of things, but the longer it;s been since the last
one, the more likely one is coming soon. Assuming you had a $400K
house and you ripped out the builder's kitchen and secretly put in a
new one, how much difference would it make in taxes? Assuming it was
a $40K valuation difference, that would result in maybe $800 a year
difference in property tax. At that rate, it's going to take a long
time to recover the cost of the cheap builder's kitchen that got ripped
out and more likely that a revaluation is going to occur first.

And of course, finally, is that to do the kitchen renovation in most
areas of NJ requires a building permit. So, if you do it legally, they
are going to come and revalue the property anyway.

Doesn't seem like a good idea to me.

"When I decided to put in my own hard wood floors instead of the crappy

carpet builder gave me, I asked him to roll up the carpet and padding
and just leave it there, instead of giving me the $100 credit for the
WHOLE first floor... I later used this carpet in the basement. "

That's actually a very good idea, assuming you have somewhere else to
use it. It is amazing how little credit they give for leaving out
stuff. For something like this, you think they could at least give you
$500, which is still dirt cheap.

I don't believe that it's automatically the total purchase price, though
they may be doing that in your town.

Sad, but true. They definately are doing that.

How soon it gets revalued
depends on a lot of things, but the longer it;s been since the last
one, the more likely one is coming soon.

No, they just did one in February. Another one due in 5-7 years.
According to the town hall, at least. New kitchen will not raise the
taxes. Finishing the basement, adding a bathroom or any room will do
so. Last time I had a tax assesor come to my townhouse, he simply
looked down into the basement staircase, saw that the basement wasn't
finished and left. Didn't look at our extended deck, just left. No
change in taxes.

Assuming you had a $400K
house and you ripped out the builder's kitchen and secretly put in a
new one, how much difference would it make in taxes? Assuming it was
a $40K valuation difference, that would result in maybe $800 a year
difference in property tax.

But that's just kitchen. Every option piles money on top.

At that rate, it's going to take a long
time to recover the cost of the cheap builder's kitchen that got ripped
out and more likely that a revaluation is going to occur first.

There's no cost of builders kitchen. The price of the house would
remain the same even if you told him not to put one in. Or as we saw in
previous example, he would give you a $1000 credit That's besides
the point, since he probably wouldn't get a CO anyway without one.

There's more. The choice of cabinets, countertops and appliances is
extremely limited when purchasing from the builder. Buyilders don't
negotiate on prices either. Also, any quality materials (read:upgrades)
will be grossly overpriced. Basically spending $40K on builders kitchen
and spending $40K with an outside contractor will get you VERY
different results. This I have already experienced.

And of course, finally, is that to do the kitchen renovation in most
areas of NJ requires a building permit. So, if you do it legally, they
are going to come and revalue the property anyway.

Sorry, I never heard of that. If new electrical or gas lines are
required, then I can see... but to change cabinets, countertops and new
appliances? I doubt it.

wrote:
But keep in mind, in some towns in
NJ (like mine) taxes on new construction are assesed by the TOTAL
price of the purchased home. Which means more upgrades=more taxes.
That's why we took the crappiest kitchen the builder offerend and
will redo it before moving in with an outside contractor.

You can't get away with that in most municipalities. Our town requires
permits for any repair or improvement over $500, and the county tax
assessor subsequently gets a copy and adds the value of any such
improvements to the assessed base. Doensn't matter if the property has
an occupancy permit, or not.

Hi

Thanks a lot for the responses. This is my first home and I am not too
familiar with the terms used, Can you please let me know what is Chaser
pipe so that I can make sure I get it. Also whats a roof and attic fan
??

I have already decided on the rough in plumming option for the basement
and also the basement windows. I will be having a 2 storey family room
and hence will get the recess lights.

Can some tell me if I need to get the garage door opener, central
humidifier, and programmable thersostat from the builder ?? or can
these be done later on. Again I am not very sure how all these will
help hence if you can advise about the pros and cons will be great

Should I upgrade the titles in Bathroom ? Builder is charging $3800 for
that.
Kitchen has an Island and cooktop is in the center. Cost to move the
cook top to counter top is $1000 should I go for it ?






wrote:
I don't believe that it's automatically the total purchase price, though
they may be doing that in your town.

Sad, but true. They definately are doing that.

How soon it gets revalued
depends on a lot of things, but the longer it;s been since the last
one, the more likely one is coming soon.

No, they just did one in February. Another one due in 5-7 years.
According to the town hall, at least. New kitchen will not raise the
taxes. Finishing the basement, adding a bathroom or any room will do
so. Last time I had a tax assesor come to my townhouse, he simply
looked down into the basement staircase, saw that the basement wasn't
finished and left. Didn't look at our extended deck, just left. No
change in taxes.

Assuming you had a $400K
house and you ripped out the builder's kitchen and secretly put in a
new one, how much difference would it make in taxes? Assuming it was
a $40K valuation difference, that would result in maybe $800 a year
difference in property tax.

But that's just kitchen. Every option piles money on top.

At that rate, it's going to take a long
time to recover the cost of the cheap builder's kitchen that got ripped
out and more likely that a revaluation is going to occur first.

There's no cost of builders kitchen. The price of the house would
remain the same even if you told him not to put one in. Or as we saw in
previous example, he would give you a $1000 credit That's besides
the point, since he probably wouldn't get a CO anyway without one.

There's more. The choice of cabinets, countertops and appliances is
extremely limited when purchasing from the builder. Buyilders don't
negotiate on prices either. Also, any quality materials (read:upgrades)
will be grossly overpriced. Basically spending $40K on builders kitchen
and spending $40K with an outside contractor will get you VERY
different results. This I have already experienced.

And of course, finally, is that to do the kitchen renovation in most
areas of NJ requires a building permit. So, if you do it legally, they
are going to come and revalue the property anyway.

Sorry, I never heard of that. If new electrical or gas lines are
required, then I can see... but to change cabinets, countertops and new
appliances? I doubt it.

what is Chaser
pipe so that I can make sure I get it.

It's just a long piece of a PVC pipe that runs from the basement to the
attic. If your electrical panel is in the basement and you need to run
another circuit to the second floor, it can be done without disturbing
the walls. If they want more then $150-200 for it, forget it.


Speaking of electrical panels, you should probably upgrade the
electrical service to 200AMP, especially if you want to finish the
basement, maybe have a pool or a jacuzzi.

Also whats a roof and attic fan
??

They are large fans that are used to ventilate either the attic or the
whole house. Saves you a lot of money in the summer. Of course if it's
95 degrees outside, it's rather ineffective.

I have already decided on the rough in plumming option for the basement

Is that like a slop sink and a drain? Useful if you want to finish your
basement.


Can some tell me if I need to get the garage door opener, central
humidifier

Humidifier is a great help with forced-air heat.

, and programmable thersostat from the builder ?? or can
these be done later on.

Depends what they are quoting you for it... All these things can be
done later on, just depends what they are charging you.


Should I upgrade the titles in Bathroom ? Builder is charging $3800 for
that.

$3,800 for just 1 bathroom? If so, it's a bit steep. 3 months ago I
paid less then that for 2 and 1/2 bath upgrade. Unfortunately, If
there'a lot of tile it may cost you more to remove this and put new
tile on.

Kitchen has an Island and cooktop is in the center. Cost to move the
cook top to counter top is $1000 should I go for it ?

If you can't stand the setup, yes. It will cost you as much if not more
later. Later, you'll have to move the drain, water and pay for 2 new
countertops.

"Options for New Construction" wrote:

Can some one let us know about the Dos and Donts for the
upgrades and options. what are the options we should take

Don't make the assumption that the builder charge for the option has anything to
do with his cost. As with options on cars, options on houses are designed to
increase the margin on the entire sale.

and what can be avoided and done later on.

Look for things that add value to the house over the long term. Upgraded carpet
pads, tile in certain places, upgraded bathrooms, etc. Also look at things that
would be expensive to add later: gas line to the laundry room, gas tap for an
outdoor grill, rough plumbing for a future bathroom, etc.

Extra cable TV and phone boxes can go either way, depending on the design of the
house and how hard it will be to fish cable through walls.

Upgraded appliances are probably not a great investment and can be easily
replaced later. Same with light fixtures. Non-standard paint schemes, etc.

Chain builders won't let you do anything on your own. Custom builders *may* let
you do low voltage wiring, etc. Making friends with the chain builder's site
supervisor is always a good thing to do. They frequently have discretion to do
things without getting the office involved.

In article .com,
Options for New Construction wrote:

Can some tell me if I need to get the garage door opener, central
humidifier, and programmable thersostat from the builder ?? or can
these be done later on. Again I am not very sure how all these will
help hence if you can advise about the pros and cons will be great

All can be added later.

Kitchen has an Island and cooktop is in the center. Cost to move the
cook top to counter top is $1000 should I go for it ?

Ask whomever in your family will be doing most of the cooking where they
would prefer it. If it were me, I would prefer the cooktop on the
island. If there were a choice of electric vs gas, I would prefer gas
cooktop and electric oven.

--
Rich Greenberg Marietta, GA, USA richgr atsign panix.com + 1 770 321 6507
Eastern time. N6LRT I speak for myself & my dogs only. VM'er since CP-67
Canines:Val, Red & Shasta (RIP),Red, husky Owner:Chinook-L
Atlanta Siberian Husky Rescue. www.panix.com/~richgr/ Asst Owner:Sibernet-L

So, If you want to paint inside of your house and it costs $1000, you
need a permit??? Or if you decide to put a hardwood floor for $3000
(definate home improvement) you have to get one as well?

I'll have to disagree with you, I have never heard of that. If you
don't mind me asking, what town are you in? I've lived in Midlessex,
Union and Morris counties and have never run into it, but I have taken
out many permits.

"Options for New Construction" wrote:

Can you please let me know what is Chaser
pipe so that I can make sure I get it.

It allows you to run future cable TV, security, or telephone wires from the
attic to the basement/crawlspace without having to fish them through the wall.
Very useful.

Also whats a roof and attic fan??

A roof fan is a powered fan to draw air through the attic in the summer. Keeps
you from frying the shingles. A properly designed (vented) roof should not need
one of these. They are mostly used in retrofit/remodel situations.


I have already decided on the rough in plumming option for the basement
and also the basement windows. I will be having a 2 storey family room
and hence will get the recess lights.

Very good choices for long term value.


Can some tell me if I need to get the garage door opener, central
humidifier, and programmable thersostat from the builder ?? or can
these be done later on. Again I am not very sure how all these will
help hence if you can advise about the pros and cons will be great

All of these can be done later when you have the money and time. Depending on
your skills, you could do all of them yourself.


Should I upgrade the titles in Bathroom ? Builder is charging $3800 for
that.

What's your budget like? You could do tile later as well. Probably much cheaper
if you do it yourself.

Kitchen has an Island and cooktop is in the center. Cost to move the
cook top to counter top is $1000 should I go for it ?

How does the cook of the family feel about it? Cooktops on an island can be a
traffic issue in the kitchen, depening on the size. In lower to mid homes they
also tend to not have any venting. Moving it to the counter allows you to use
the center island as a snack / breakfast bar. Hard to do this later as the
plumbing, electrical and venting will be difficult.

Don't make the assumption that the builder charge for the option has anything to
do with his cost. As with options on cars, options on houses are designed to
increase the margin on the entire sale.

And not just the builder. Upgrades is where sub-contractors make their
money.

Extra cable TV and phone boxes can go either way, depending on the design of the
house and how hard it will be to fish cable through walls.

True, but here in NJ, buiders are usually pretty reasonable with prices
on those. An extra phone jack in both cases cost me $60, a lightswitch
and fixture - $130. Not worth the headache later, IMO.

They frequently have discretion to do
things without getting the office involved.

If you know someone like that, let me know. I may buy a house there
just for that reason ;-)

"Sorry, I never heard of that. If new electrical or gas lines are
required, then I can see... but to change cabinets, countertops and new

appliances? I doubt it. "

Here's an example of when you need one in Florham Park,NJ. I've seen
this identical list for many other muncipalities as well. Go to
permitplace.com, they have municipalites listed by state and a quick
look showed many similar lists. Kitchen remodel is definitely
included. A buddy just had his kitchen done in Wall and the contractor
pulled permits.

http://www.florhamparkboro.net/permits.htm#permits
When You Need a Building Permit . . .
You must obtain a building permit from the Borough's building
department before making the following changes to your house:
Replacing a roof
Installing new siding
Adding a bedroom or bathroom
Adding an addition
Interior alterations
Constructing a deck
Enclosing a porch
Installing a dishwasher
Replacing an electric stove with a gas stove
Finishing a basement
Central air conditioning
New wiring
New furnace, boiler, or hot water heater
Renovating a bathroom or kitchen
Installing ductwork
Fence
Installing a fireplace
Concrete Patios
Shed
In-ground and above ground pools

Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
"Options for New Construction" wrote:



I have already decided on the rough in plumming option for the basement
and also the basement windows. I will be having a 2 storey family room
and hence will get the recess lights.


Very good choices for long term value.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the type of recessed light they use. We had
recessed lights spec'd in a house and they used the single wall
canister. I would make sure you are getting canisters that are designed
to be installed between conditioned air space and attic space, assuming
the two story family room ceiling does not have a floor above it.

Gary

The following are the rates that the builder is charging:

The home has a 2 zone heating

(a) Programmable Thermostat - $150.00
(b) Central Humidifier - $500.00
(c) Garage Door Opener - $550.00

Also I want to know should we convert the wood fireplace to a gas
fireplace ? Any advantages / disadvantages of one over the other ??

Should we go for coffered ceiling in the master bedroom ? The ceiling
height is 8ft.

Thanks

gary wrote:
Clark W. Griswold, Jr. wrote:
"Options for New Construction" wrote:



I have already decided on the rough in plumming option for the basement
and also the basement windows. I will be having a 2 storey family room
and hence will get the recess lights.


Very good choices for long term value.

Maybe, maybe not. Depends on the type of recessed light they use. We had
recessed lights spec'd in a house and they used the single wall
canister. I would make sure you are getting canisters that are designed
to be installed between conditioned air space and attic space, assuming
the two story family room ceiling does not have a floor above it.

Gary

wrote:
"When I decided to put in my own hard wood floors instead of the crappy

carpet builder gave me, I asked him to roll up the carpet and padding
and just leave it there, instead of giving me the $100 credit for the
WHOLE first floor... I later used this carpet in the basement. "

That's actually a very good idea, assuming you have somewhere else to
use it. It is amazing how little credit they give for leaving out
stuff. For something like this, you think they could at least give you
$500, which is still dirt cheap.


Thats nice. I would expect though 'none' is a rare option as the house
can not pass inspection until its complete in certain ways and this
would put the builders completion contingent upon some other company the
builder has no relation to.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

Options for New Construction wrote:
hi,

we are buying a new home from a prominent builder in NJ. The builder
has handed us a sheet with all the options and upgrades and a price
sheet. Can some one let us know about the Dos and Donts for the
upgrades and options. what are the options we should take and what can
be avoided and done later on. Any advise will be greatly appreciated.

dan


Good time to add CAT5 network cabling in the walls for future internet
use throughout the house.

Also if you have drain tiles, which you probably do, good time to add
cleanouts if the water table is high in the area.

--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert

Yeah, I thought so too... My builder handed me a release form, which I
would sign that said that I refused flooring in the hallway and
kitchen. They worked out a deal with the township that allows them to
get a CO.

I added CAT5 to my townhouse 5 years ago, but with the quality and
price of Wireless Networking today, I no longer use cable. I expect
this situation to get even better in the future.

(a) Programmable Thermostat - $150.00

Take it.

(b) Central Humidifier - $500.00

You can get this done about $100 cheaper, but since your time is worth
money, take it from the builder.

(c) Garage Door Opener - $550.00

Sounds a bit steep, but again. Do you have a two car garage? If so,
keep in mind that $550 is price for just one.



Also I want to know should we convert the wood fireplace to a gas
fireplace ? Any advantages / disadvantages of one over the other ??

When? Now or later? It's harder to convert from gas to woodburning (if
it was originally built as gas), as the two require different type of
chimney construction.

Pro's and Con's a

1.) Woodburning - generates lots of heat. Has real fire, not the
imitation look of gas FP. Gives a nice warm smell throughout the house.
Saves on energy bills in the winter. Requires cleaning (I clean mine
after every 2 sessions)

2.)Gas - little or no cleaning required. Doesn't depend on wether you
have firewood or not. Generates little heat, fire looks rather
artificial.

I always opted for woodburning only. Just a matter of personal
preference.



Should we go for coffered ceiling in the master bedroom ? The ceiling
height is 8ft.


Thanks

Price out improving the basic architectural detailing, ie, baseboards,
crown moulding, chair railings, and ballustrades. Unless you intend to
replace the standard options after you move in, it often is low on list
which I would argue that it should be one of the first things to
upgrade or customize. Standard baseboards are 3 to 4" and raising them
up a couple of inches will make a huge difference. Everything looks
better with a good aesthetic foundation and the end-result much more
substantial. Also get very involved in lighting upgrades. Make sure the
plans allow enough well-placed recessed lighting. The root of many
problem spaces is often not enough lighting options. Dimmers can be
easily added later, but do it now if possible - especially in Dining
Room, Kitchen, Theater/Family Room. Also try to do a little floor
planning to determine electrical outlets for computers, lighting, phone
lines. There is nothing more annoying than lengthy and visible wires
and you may find you could use some floor outlets, etc. For more
advice go to askinteriordesign.com. Good luck.

Also insist on neutral wires in all switch boxes. Often simple switch legs
have only two wires that run to the switch but no neutral wire, which is not
used in simple on-off switching. If you want to run centrally controlled,
scene setting dimmers or home automation switching/dimming you need a
neutral wire to operate these devises. Also the switch boxes need to be as
deep as possible to contain the devise and connections.

"sharon" wrote in message
oups.com...
Price out improving the basic architectural detailing, ie, baseboards,
crown moulding, chair railings, and ballustrades. Unless you intend to
replace the standard options after you move in, it often is low on list
which I would argue that it should be one of the first things to
upgrade or customize. Standard baseboards are 3 to 4" and raising them
up a couple of inches will make a huge difference. Everything looks
better with a good aesthetic foundation and the end-result much more
substantial. Also get very involved in lighting upgrades. Make sure the
plans allow enough well-placed recessed lighting. The root of many
problem spaces is often not enough lighting options. Dimmers can be
easily added later, but do it now if possible - especially in Dining
Room, Kitchen, Theater/Family Room. Also try to do a little floor
planning to determine electrical outlets for computers, lighting, phone
lines. There is nothing more annoying than lengthy and visible wires
and you may find you could use some floor outlets, etc. For more
advice go to askinteriordesign.com. Good luck.

Dan,

Best of luck on your adventure. Interestingly, I find myself in the
same position. I am relocating to the Basking Ridge area and am in the
process of building in Morris County with one of the more prominent
builders in the state (mostly custom/semi custom). Anyway, given this
is my third build home, I have adopted the strategies suggested by
others as well:

- Took the added "foundational square footage" adds - Conservatory,
extend kitchen
- Finishing basement. Realize that it will add to my tax assessed
amount but priced out with a few contractors and could not beat the
value
- Cabinets
- Fireplaces adds (Master and pass thru in Living)
- Recessed lighting, however, am only getting light "boxes" to have my
own ligthing fixtures installed after close prior to move in
- Added bathrooms
- Kitchen including appliances. Again, situation of the refrigerator
alone would cost almost as much as I am paying for the upgrade which
also includes cabinets, countertop configuration, stove/range, warming
drawers, ice makers, dishwashers, and wine refrigerators
- Added tankless water heater for Master Bath only

In order to decide on things like flooring, tiles, etc., I basically
"shopped them" on the internet with labor quotes and compared to
incremental cost of upgrade. If it was close, I went with the upgrade
to avoid the "burning of cycles" factor. If it was not close (i.e. the
light fixtures and rear deck - composite material), I will do on my
own.

Best of luck. - Lee

Some of the home design software out there will create an order list
for your materials and offer avarage pricing, too . . . Look into Punch
Software (www.punchsoftware.com) or 3D Home Architect
(www.3dhaonline.com) for some programs that will help with your
planning!

Good luck.

wrote:
I added CAT5 to my townhouse 5 years ago, but with the quality and
price of Wireless Networking today, I no longer use cable. I expect
this situation to get even better in the future.


I'm not a fan of radiation. I prefer wiring especially for stationary
devices like computers. My house is wired, + I have wireless for the
laptop. It just tough for me to justify wireless on a stationary
desktop computer.


--
Respectfully,


CL Gilbert