I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR, hook up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not, any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

Wow...what a brilliant idea!!....so whatcha gonna call it ...a magic picture
machine?....or maybe a phantasmagorical moving picture projector???....or if
all else fails....maybe even a TV!!!.
So lets get this straight...you want to know how to build a lcd tv, using a
vcr as the tuner!!!!!!????????.
Ok, first spend a couple of months, and a couple of thousand $'s...or walk
down to wal-mart and buy one.
Kim
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with
VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR, hook
up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not, any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

Hey, it wasn't "my" idea! I said I wasn't up on VCRs. I just asked the
question as posed to me to ask! With all the stuff I see in this newsgroup,
hell I thought maybe someone would have thought of such a thing. Oh well, I
suppose that idea was far fetched too!

RM

"Kim" wrote in message
...
Wow...what a brilliant idea!!....so whatcha gonna call it ...a magic
picture
machine?....or maybe a phantasmagorical moving picture projector???....or
if
all else fails....maybe even a TV!!!.
So lets get this straight...you want to know how to build a lcd tv, using
a
vcr as the tuner!!!!!!????????.
Ok, first spend a couple of months, and a couple of thousand $'s...or walk
down to wal-mart and buy one.
Kim
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with
VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR, hook
up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not, any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
| FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
| hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
| just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
| that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
| along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

I'm guessing they have an in-car DVD player? It's not just a tuner, you need
an IF strip and an audio system - a lot of junk. IMO it's too much work. A
lot of those tiny (3" - 4") TVs run off dry cells or a 12 V auto plug.
Easier.

N

I "totally" agree..... I just thought I'd ask anyway. Just goes to show, "I"
don't claim to know it all! I'm not one to "assume".
So, I ASK! Yes, you're correct in their set up. You gave me an idea too, to
work with and report back to them.

Thanks!

RM

"NSM" wrote in message
news:SsVpd.194208$df2.64768@edtnps89...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
| FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
| hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
| just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
| that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
| along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

I'm guessing they have an in-car DVD player? It's not just a tuner, you
need
an IF strip and an audio system - a lot of junk. IMO it's too much work. A
lot of those tiny (3" - 4") TVs run off dry cells or a 12 V auto plug.
Easier.

N

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some tuners
even output composite video directly.

Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer" TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper - as one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some tuners
even output composite video directly.

My sarcastic response was based on the fact that it sounded like you had a
raw LCD screen, with no driving electronics attached, and were attempting to
reinvent the wheel.....or at least the TV.
Clarity in questions my son, is what you seek!.
Seriously, I was at the Home Depot (!!??!!) yesterday and saw the cheapest
LCD combo 20 inch TV/Computer Monitor yet.
It was around the $280.00 mark.
Yikes....Consumer electronics at Home Depot.....next thing you know Girl
Guides will be selling Skil Saws
Kim


"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should
have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably
why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer" TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to
control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper - as
one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD
already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some
tuners
even output composite video directly.

The other good thing we have learned here to night is that my spell-checker
will actually correct the spelling on the word phantasmagorical.
Amazing!.
Kim
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should
have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably
why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer" TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to
control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper - as
one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD
already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some
tuners
even output composite video directly.

"Kim" writes:

Wow...what a brilliant idea!!....so whatcha gonna call it ...a magic picture
machine?....or maybe a phantasmagorical moving picture projector???....or if
all else fails....maybe even a TV!!!.
So lets get this straight...you want to know how to build a lcd tv, using a
vcr as the tuner!!!!!!????????.
Ok, first spend a couple of months, and a couple of thousand $'s...or walk
down to wal-mart and buy one.
Kim

For many people, walking down to Wal-Mart would be the obvious solution.
To those who strive for technical knowledge and a challenge, building a TV
out of salvaged parts is irresistible.

The answer to the original question is that it might be possible depending
on what the input signal format is for the LCD panel and how much effort
one is willing to put into the project.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the Feedback Form in the FAQs.


"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with
VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR, hook
up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not, any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

"Rambling Man" writes:

Hey, it wasn't "my" idea! I said I wasn't up on VCRs. I just asked the
question as posed to me to ask! With all the stuff I see in this newsgroup,
hell I thought maybe someone would have thought of such a thing. Oh well, I
suppose that idea was far fetched too!

It's an absolutely appropriate question. Ignore the responses that suggest
this is the most stupid ever asked.

Sure, it's easy to go and buy an LCD TV. It could be much more rewarding
to put one together from parts, even if it does end up looking like something
held together with duct tape and bailing wire.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is ignored.
To contact me, please use the Feedback Form in the FAQs.


RM

"Kim" wrote in message
...
Wow...what a brilliant idea!!....so whatcha gonna call it ...a magic
picture
machine?....or maybe a phantasmagorical moving picture projector???....or
if
all else fails....maybe even a TV!!!.
So lets get this straight...you want to know how to build a lcd tv, using
a
vcr as the tuner!!!!!!????????.
Ok, first spend a couple of months, and a couple of thousand $'s...or walk
down to wal-mart and buy one.
Kim
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with
VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR, hook
up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not, any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

I'm top posting this reply since I didn't want to water down either response
or my original!

I guess the old adage plays out.......... I can't recall the exact words (I
just woke up and it's been a "long" night!) - the only dumb/stupid
question - is the one that wasn't asked. One won't know unless they don't
ask. And as I said, I don't like to "assume", we all know where that gets
us! And I never claimed to know it all! So, I ask!

Thanks for the replies, I shall forward them. And next time, try to include
"ALL" info. I do apologize.

Thanks,

RM

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
"Rambling Man" writes:

Hey, it wasn't "my" idea! I said I wasn't up on VCRs. I just asked the
question as posed to me to ask! With all the stuff I see in this
newsgroup,
hell I thought maybe someone would have thought of such a thing. Oh well,
I
suppose that idea was far fetched too!

It's an absolutely appropriate question. Ignore the responses that
suggest
this is the most stupid ever asked.

Sure, it's easy to go and buy an LCD TV. It could be much more rewarding
to put one together from parts, even if it does end up looking like
something
held together with duct tape and bailing wire.

--- sam | Sci.Electronics.Repair FAQ Mirror:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/
Repair | Main Table of Contents: http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/
+Lasers | Sam's Laser FAQ:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/sam/lasersam.htm
| Mirror Sites:
http://repairfaq.ece.drexel.edu/REPAIR/F_mirror.html

Note: These links are hopefully temporary until we can sort out the
excessive
traffic on Repairfaq.org.

Important: Anything sent to the email address in the message header is
ignored.
To contact me, please use the Feedback Form in the FAQs.


RM

"Kim" wrote in message
...
Wow...what a brilliant idea!!....so whatcha gonna call it ...a magic
picture
machine?....or maybe a phantasmagorical moving picture
projector???....or
if
all else fails....maybe even a TV!!!.
So lets get this straight...you want to know how to build a lcd tv,
using
a
vcr as the tuner!!!!!!????????.
Ok, first spend a couple of months, and a couple of thousand $'s...or
walk
down to wal-mart and buy one.
Kim
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
I'm not that involved - really not even enough to say using one - with
VCRs.
A friend of mine asked me about a project he has in mind. He has a LCD
"display". He wants to know if he could take the Tuner out of a VCR,
hook
up
the necessary voltages and cables for the Antenna in/out, as well as
video/audio - to the LCD display, to make it work like a TV? If not,
any
alternatives?

Your thoughts?

Thanks,

RM

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...
| "Rambling Man" writes:
|
| Hey, it wasn't "my" idea! I said I wasn't up on VCRs. I just asked the
| question as posed to me to ask! With all the stuff I see in this
newsgroup,
| hell I thought maybe someone would have thought of such a thing. Oh
well, I
| suppose that idea was far fetched too!
|
| It's an absolutely appropriate question. Ignore the responses that
suggest
| this is the most stupid ever asked.
|
| Sure, it's easy to go and buy an LCD TV. It could be much more rewarding
| to put one together from parts, even if it does end up looking like
something
| held together with duct tape and bailing wire.

I've built more than my share of one-offs, prototypes etc. You have to know
what's really reasonable. You'd wind up with so much 'guts' from a TV or VCR
that it isn't worth hand building. At most I would try to add video and
audio outputs from a 12 V TV rather than try to scratch build.

"A man's gotta know his limitations" - Dirty Harry.

N

"Sam Goldwasser" wrote in message
...

| For many people, walking down to Wal-Mart would be the obvious solution.
| To those who strive for technical knowledge and a challenge, building a TV
| out of salvaged parts is irresistible.
|
| The answer to the original question is that it might be possible depending
| on what the input signal format is for the LCD panel and how much effort
| one is willing to put into the project.

I'm guessing they have an in car DVD system and want to add a tuner.

N

Mobile tuners are available from several sources. Try MCM or PartsExpress.
OTOH, *if* you can find an old used 12v VCR (most were merely players), and
*if* the mobile DVD setup has line video inputs; it's a piece of cake to
simply hook the parts together. (If you can find the VCR, keep it in one
piece and gain the added functionality of being able to play tapes.)

jak

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should
have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably
why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer" TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to
control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper - as
one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD
already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some
tuners
even output composite video directly.

Hello All!!!!!!!!!!

Well, they went out today and bought the smallest "VCR" they could find. So,
we'll see how they make out with that.
Thanks for all your contributions. I did forward them prior to the purchase.
Not sure where they're going from here, but we'll soon find out. I'm
guessing a TV too!

RM

"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .
Mobile tuners are available from several sources. Try MCM or
PartsExpress.
OTOH, *if* you can find an old used 12v VCR (most were merely players),
and
*if* the mobile DVD setup has line video inputs; it's a piece of cake to
simply hook the parts together. (If you can find the VCR, keep it in one
piece and gain the added functionality of being able to play tapes.)

jak

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should
have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably
why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer"
TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to
control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper - as
one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has
the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue
also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD
already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some
tuners
even output composite video directly.

And if you need a mobile setup, a 200 w el cheapo inverter will take care of
that 120 vac el cheapo VCR. I use on in the van all the time, along with a
small telly, works like a hose. Today's modified sine wave inverters are
just plain outstanding! You had to grow up in the fifties like me to realize
how difficult it was to operate 120 vac equipment in the car. A real PIA
with the old vibrator units, noise, buzz, hash, you name it, it had it!
Regards
Tom
"Rambling Man" wrote in message
.verio.net...
Hello All!!!!!!!!!!

Well, they went out today and bought the smallest "VCR" they could find.
So,
we'll see how they make out with that.
Thanks for all your contributions. I did forward them prior to the
purchase.
Not sure where they're going from here, but we'll soon find out. I'm
guessing a TV too!

RM

"jakdedert" wrote in message
.. .
Mobile tuners are available from several sources. Try MCM or
PartsExpress.
OTOH, *if* you can find an old used 12v VCR (most were merely players),
and
*if* the mobile DVD setup has line video inputs; it's a piece of cake to
simply hook the parts together. (If you can find the VCR, keep it in
one
piece and gain the added functionality of being able to play tapes.)

jak

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
. verio.net...
Sorry, my error. It is late and I was not thinking correctly. I should
have
included that one last part. I've seen the posts you refer to. Probably
why
they thought it was possible. Not being to familiar with the "computer"
TV
tuners, "I" had even suggested trying that, but they said no way to
control
channel change. I think the 5" tv would be a lot easier and cheaper -
as
one
other mentioned. UNLESS of course one of the VCRs he has available has
the
required outputs OR such a tuner can be bought reasonably - to equal
the
cost of a 5" tv or such.

Thanks

RM

"James Sweet" wrote in message
news:sZVpd.472$xk5.429@trnddc09...

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
rio.net...
FWIW, I suggested something on those lines. They already have the
LCD
screen
hooked up to a DVD player or whatever and a camera. They thought
they
could
just do the "TV" thing by adding a tuner. I suppose I should have
mentioned
that before. And, this is all "mobile". I guess size was an issue
also,
along with the previous sentence of using what is already available.

RM


You didn't mention that before, a lot of people ask if they can use a
laptop
LCD panel for something and the answer is generally no. If the LCD
already
works on a DVD player then yes you can hook it up to a tuner, some
tuners
even output composite video directly.

"t.hoehler" wrote in message
news:i6aqd.97934$V41.56874@attbi_s52...
| And if you need a mobile setup, a 200 w el cheapo inverter will take care
of
| that 120 vac el cheapo VCR. I use on in the van all the time, along with a
| small telly, works like a hose. Today's modified sine wave inverters are
| just plain outstanding! You had to grow up in the fifties like me to
realize
| how difficult it was to operate 120 vac equipment in the car. A real PIA
| with the old vibrator units, noise, buzz, hash, you name it, it had it!

First one I worked on used tubes to invert from 250 VDC to VAC!

Of course I worked on lots of vibrator car radios too. Then there were the
hybrids with tubes with 12 volts on the plates and transistors for the AF
section. Lotta weird junk before transistors could do it all.

N

"NSM" wrote in message news:O_aqd.10142$VL6.8864@clgrps13...

"t.hoehler" wrote in message
news:i6aqd.97934$V41.56874@attbi_s52...
| And if you need a mobile setup, a 200 w el cheapo inverter will take
care
of
| that 120 vac el cheapo VCR. I use on in the van all the time, along with
a
| small telly, works like a hose. Today's modified sine wave inverters are
| just plain outstanding! You had to grow up in the fifties like me to
realize
| how difficult it was to operate 120 vac equipment in the car. A real PIA
| with the old vibrator units, noise, buzz, hash, you name it, it had it!

First one I worked on used tubes to invert from 250 VDC to VAC!

Of course I worked on lots of vibrator car radios too. Then there were the
hybrids with tubes with 12 volts on the plates and transistors for the AF
section. Lotta weird junk before transistors could do it all.

N



I'm not too far behind you guys! I got into electronics when Vibrators were
still in, but being phased out. I'm betting the guy with this idea in mind
already has an inverter! If not, he'll have to get one.

Thanks again,

RM

"Rambling Man" wrote in message
.verio.net...

"NSM" wrote in message
news:O_aqd.10142$VL6.8864@clgrps13...

"t.hoehler" wrote in message
news:i6aqd.97934$V41.56874@attbi_s52...
| And if you need a mobile setup, a 200 w el cheapo inverter will take
care
of
| that 120 vac el cheapo VCR. I use on in the van all the time, along
with
a
| small telly, works like a hose. Today's modified sine wave inverters
are
| just plain outstanding! You had to grow up in the fifties like me to
realize
| how difficult it was to operate 120 vac equipment in the car. A real
PIA
| with the old vibrator units, noise, buzz, hash, you name it, it had
it!

First one I worked on used tubes to invert from 250 VDC to VAC!

Of course I worked on lots of vibrator car radios too. Then there were
the
hybrids with tubes with 12 volts on the plates and transistors for the
AF
section. Lotta weird junk before transistors could do it all.

N



I'm not too far behind you guys! I got into electronics when Vibrators
were
still in, but being phased out. I'm betting the guy with this idea in mind
already has an inverter! If not, he'll have to get one.

Thanks again,

RM



Somewhere I think I still have an old 1950's power inverter which uses a
vibrator. Wish I still had the original box it was in when I got it at a
garage sale probably 15+ years ago.