Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

Per Stromgren wrote:

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

I haven't noticed this effect with capacity/inductance tuned sets.

The most likely cause is changes in the resistance track and switch
contacts (if the readio uses mechanical switches) caused by ingress of
dirt or damp, as well as mechanical wear. A less likely fault would be
component failure somewhere in the power section, supplying the
voltage to the tuning controls.

None of the components involved are expensive and if you are otherwise
happy with the set it is well worth repairing.

--

rgds
LAurence

....Seven and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Laurence Taylor" wrote in message
...
Per Stromgren wrote:

Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

I haven't noticed this effect with capacity/inductance tuned sets.

The most likely cause is changes in the resistance track and switch
contacts (if the readio uses mechanical switches) caused by ingress of
dirt or damp, as well as mechanical wear. A less likely fault would be
component failure somewhere in the power section, supplying the
voltage to the tuning controls.

None of the components involved are expensive and if you are otherwise
happy with the set it is well worth repairing.

--

rgds
LAurence

...Seven and a half million years and all you can come up with is 42?

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:01:01 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

I probably won't do that, these sets are selled by the dozen, but out
of curiousity: what components values can drift with age?

Mark Z.

Per.

"Per Stromgren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:01:01 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This
applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer
adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

I probably won't do that, these sets are selled by the dozen, but out
of curiousity: what components values can drift with age?

All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 09:06:46 -0400, "Charles Schuler"
wrote:


All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.

Thanks. PLL synthesized tuners was probably what I meant when I said I
would look for "digital" radios. I'm a lot wiser know, thanks!

One last one, while I have I have you guys on the line: will the drift
"amplitude" of component values grow with age as well? Otherwise, it
would just be a matter of re-tuning, but that does not seem to help in
the normal case. These radio set drift away happily while listeing.

Per.

"Charles Schuler" ) writes:
"Per Stromgren" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 05:01:01 -0500, "Mark D. Zacharias"
wrote:

Many radio's suffer from alignment problems as they get older. This
applies
to digital models also, but not so much, since they have fewer
adjustments
and are somewhat self-compensating. Station frequency, for example, won't
drift, but component values do somewhat, meaning VCO and discriminator
alignments may need to be re-done.

I probably won't do that, these sets are selled by the dozen, but out
of curiousity: what components values can drift with age?

All component values drift with age. Your problem seems to be temperature
sensitivity or voltage sensitivity. For example, if the supply voltage to
the local oscillator drifts then the frequency will be affected. When you
are listening to an FM station at 100 on the dial, the local oscillator is
running at 110.7 MHz and a drift of only 0.1 % will throw the tuning way
off. That's why older receivers used AFC and newer ones use PLL frequency
synthesizers for the local oscillator.


I pulled an analog AM/FM portable out of the garbage, and it had the inability
to stay on the station it was last on when I turned it on. Cleaning the
am/fm switch fixed the problem. I can't remember if the issue was on both
am and fm, or just FM.

Michael

"Per Stromgren" wrote in message
...

One last one, while I have I have you guys on the line: will the drift
"amplitude" of component values grow with age as well? Otherwise, it
would just be a matter of re-tuning, but that does not seem to help in
the normal case. These radio set drift away happily while listeing.

Yes, probably.

Also, a more serious problem is that the parts are drifting away from each
other. Thus, initially the radio had everything right in the center of the
desired range, and there was lots of tolerance for drift. Now, parts have
already drifted apart so that the working range is very narrow. That is, if
one IF stage goes up in frequency and the other one goes down, the range
where they overlap is much smaller than before -- so if something else then
drifts, it will be much more likely to have a noticeable effect.

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes :-)

Hi!

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes :-)

I don't know about that...there are plenty of other uses for these radios.
If you don't like the programming you find, make your own. There exist very
low power devices to transmit any line level signal into the average FM
radio. I think I've even see a few that did both AM and FM.

Or take it a step further and maybe get a license for LPFM?

There are still a few good radio stations in this area, but some have died
recently. Usually the commercials aren't the problem...the programming I
like to hear just isn't very popular any longer.

William

"William R. Walsh" m
wrote in message news:ZCWSc.296954$XM6.111241@attbi_s53...
Hi!

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes :-)

I don't know about that...there are plenty of other uses for these radios.
If you don't like the programming you find, make your own. There exist
very
low power devices to transmit any line level signal into the average FM
radio. I think I've even see a few that did both AM and FM.

Or take it a step further and maybe get a license for LPFM?

There are still a few good radio stations in this area, but some have died
recently. Usually the commercials aren't the problem...the programming I
like to hear just isn't very popular any longer.

William



Yeah that's what I do, transmitter in the house on the computer, can play
CD's, MP3's, etc and pick them up in the garage on the radio out there, on
my walkman for mowing the lawn, and anywhere else.

On Thu, 12 Aug 2004 19:55:47 -0600, (Ken G.) wrote:

As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .

No problem, in our house we only listen to national commercial free
radio. Try NPR!

Per.

Enjoy commercial-free while it lasts. Soon it will be just like regular
cable tv, commercials and all. You'll have to pay extra for the
commercial-free content, just like HBO and the like on cable tv.

Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Ken G." wrote in message
...
As far as i`m concerned all commecial FM radios can go in the garbage
because they have a problem playing 50% commercials .
I now have XM satalite radio and finally away from constant car
commercials and war news every 10 minutes :-)

Per Stromgren wrote:
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.


OLD FM-radios just got better ( because new ones going worse).
Dont think its because the new ones are from far away( from Asia), but
the constuction of the electronic circuits is bad (read cheap).
Dont know what happened to your Philips.Perhaps its not your Philips but
increased radio noise in your neighbourhood. Or the radiostation decreasing
there output power (power cost).
What type of Philips radio is it ?
(I have schematic diagram of three types from late 60 to early 80th.
Or try to ask at usenet "swnet.teknik.elektronik" )


Now a little bit "swedish".
I am owner of at least 5 Philips "table top" FM-radios type Philetta
from late
60-s early 70-th. All are pretuned (or "semi-pretuned"), made in
Norrkoping Sweden.
One of them I am using daily in 30-years now. Thats quality !
Have a look at a few of them here under "transistorapparater 1960-talet"
or under
"Radioapparater" to the left.
http://samlaren.se-swed.net/
Power and frequency of swedish radio stations he
http://www.teracom.se

Try to keep that old Philips going Per ,because the DAB-radios are
coming (I think).

/Per-Ake
NPR-listener

--
Remove "extra" in my e-mail

Nice to hear that Philips ever made quality equipment.

I wouldn't buy their U.S. marketed product on a bet.


Mark Z.

--
Please reply only to Group. I regret this is necessary. Viruses and spam
have rendered my regular e-mail address useless.


"Per-Åke Andersson" wrote in message
...
Per Stromgren wrote:
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.


OLD FM-radios just got better ( because new ones going worse).
Dont think its because the new ones are from far away( from Asia), but
the constuction of the electronic circuits is bad (read cheap).
Dont know what happened to your Philips.Perhaps its not your Philips but
increased radio noise in your neighbourhood. Or the radiostation
decreasing
there output power (power cost).
What type of Philips radio is it ?
(I have schematic diagram of three types from late 60 to early 80th.
Or try to ask at usenet "swnet.teknik.elektronik" )


Now a little bit "swedish".
I am owner of at least 5 Philips "table top" FM-radios type Philetta
from late
60-s early 70-th. All are pretuned (or "semi-pretuned"), made in
Norrkoping Sweden.
One of them I am using daily in 30-years now. Thats quality !
Have a look at a few of them here under "transistorapparater 1960-talet"
or under
"Radioapparater" to the left.
http://samlaren.se-swed.net/
Power and frequency of swedish radio stations he
http://www.teracom.se

Try to keep that old Philips going Per ,because the DAB-radios are
coming (I think).

/Per-Ake
NPR-listener

--
Remove "extra" in my e-mail

I dont have a big collection of cd`s to transmit and dont own a computer
..

XM provides almost every type of music for penneys a day with the name
of the song and artist on the display.. no way could i own such an
eclectic collection of cd`s for that cheap . they also have lots of talk
radio and news for those who like that .
I hope they dont go commercial .. i may dump it if they do . Regular
radio around here is not totaly garbage but quite behind the times and
very commercial .

I dont have a big collection of cd`s to transmit and dont own a computer
..

XM provides almost every type of music for penneys a day with the name
of the song and artist on the display.. no way could i own such an
eclectic collection of cd`s for that cheap . they also have lots of talk
radio and news for those who like that .
I hope they dont go commercial .. i may dump it if they do . Regular
radio around here is not totaly garbage but quite behind the times and
very commercial .

"Per-Åke Andersson" schreef in bericht
...
Per Stromgren wrote:
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.


OLD FM-radios just got better ( because new ones going worse).
Dont think its because the new ones are from far away( from Asia), but
the constuction of the electronic circuits is bad (read cheap).
Dont know what happened to your Philips.Perhaps its not your Philips but
increased radio noise in your neighbourhood. Or the radiostation
decreasing
there output power (power cost).
What type of Philips radio is it ?
(I have schematic diagram of three types from late 60 to early 80th.
Or try to ask at usenet "swnet.teknik.elektronik" )


Now a little bit "swedish".
I am owner of at least 5 Philips "table top" FM-radios type Philetta
from late
60-s early 70-th. All are pretuned (or "semi-pretuned"), made in
Norrkoping Sweden.
One of them I am using daily in 30-years now. Thats quality !
Have a look at a few of them here under "transistorapparater 1960-talet"
or under
"Radioapparater" to the left.
http://samlaren.se-swed.net/
Power and frequency of swedish radio stations he
http://www.teracom.se

Try to keep that old Philips going Per ,because the DAB-radios are
coming (I think).

/Per-Ake
NPR-listener

--
Remove "extra" in my e-mail


I expect it is a capacitor getting old.

Per Stromgren wrote in message . ..
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

Sorry not an answer but a comment inspired by yours.

About 20 years ago I bought a NAD 3020B amplifier and a 4020 AM / FM
tuner.

Some years ago these got put away in the loft. More recently, I found
a use for them and took them out again.

The amplifier still sounds good and the only thing it lacks compared
to a new one is remote control. I cannot detect much difference
between it and my newer amplifiers.

The tuner was very disappointing. It was tuned with an old style knob
and a needle moving along a dial. I could cope with that since I
don't change channels a lot. But the sound was very much poorer than
my newer NAD 701 receiver. Both were fed from the same roof aerial
via the same distribution box. I could not even give the thing away
and it had to go to the dump.

Did the tuner degrade much more than the amplifier or have my
standards been raised by newer better tuners?

It was replaced with a Denon receiver. I considered just a tuner to
use with the 3020 but my wife wanted remote control and the receiver
was not much more than just a tuner. There is a surprisingly poor
choice of FM tuners these days. It seems that few people want them.
I am currently very happy with this tuner. As well as a good sound,
features such as remote control and RDS are attractive.

So the 3020 is back in the loft but I am keeping it. If it can sound
good after 20 years, it can last a few more and I may find another use
for it.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

"Sean O'Leathlobhair" wrote in message
om...
Per Stromgren wrote in message
. ..
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

I have owned and used quite a number of ordinary table top (or
portable) radios in my life. All of them tend to go bad in the same
way after some 10 years or so: they do not "hold the station" and
distort from mis-tuning. You try to adjust the tuning on them every
day, although they have been tuned to your local station for a number
of years without a problem. The audio section typically works fine, as
I can conclude from the ones that has a line input. I usually throw
them away and buy new ones, but I would like to know what age do to
them. My radios all have had pre-selected tuning of the variable
resistor type. My current Philips kitchen radio is a 1991 model that
is on its way to the city dump...

Anyone knows what typically happens to (ordinary) FM radios with age?

Would I have better luck with a digitally tuned device?

Per.

Sorry not an answer but a comment inspired by yours.

About 20 years ago I bought a NAD 3020B amplifier and a 4020 AM / FM
tuner.

Some years ago these got put away in the loft. More recently, I found
a use for them and took them out again.

The amplifier still sounds good and the only thing it lacks compared
to a new one is remote control. I cannot detect much difference
between it and my newer amplifiers.

The tuner was very disappointing. It was tuned with an old style knob
and a needle moving along a dial. I could cope with that since I
don't change channels a lot. But the sound was very much poorer than
my newer NAD 701 receiver. Both were fed from the same roof aerial
via the same distribution box. I could not even give the thing away
and it had to go to the dump.

Did the tuner degrade much more than the amplifier or have my
standards been raised by newer better tuners?

It was replaced with a Denon receiver. I considered just a tuner to
use with the 3020 but my wife wanted remote control and the receiver
was not much more than just a tuner. There is a surprisingly poor
choice of FM tuners these days. It seems that few people want them.
I am currently very happy with this tuner. As well as a good sound,
features such as remote control and RDS are attractive.

So the 3020 is back in the loft but I am keeping it. If it can sound
good after 20 years, it can last a few more and I may find another use
for it.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

Chances are the tuner was out of alignment, there's not much to go wrong
with power amplifiers.

"James Sweet" wrote in message news:xzUWc.2539$HY.2313@trnddc03...
"Sean O'Leathlobhair" wrote in message
om...
Per Stromgren wrote in message
. ..
Old FM radios never die, they just fade away...

snip

Sorry not an answer but a comment inspired by yours.

About 20 years ago I bought a NAD 3020B amplifier and a 4020 AM / FM
tuner.

Some years ago these got put away in the loft. More recently, I found
a use for them and took them out again.

The amplifier still sounds good and the only thing it lacks compared
to a new one is remote control. I cannot detect much difference
between it and my newer amplifiers.

The tuner was very disappointing. It was tuned with an old style knob
and a needle moving along a dial. I could cope with that since I
don't change channels a lot. But the sound was very much poorer than
my newer NAD 701 receiver. Both were fed from the same roof aerial
via the same distribution box. I could not even give the thing away
and it had to go to the dump.

Did the tuner degrade much more than the amplifier or have my
standards been raised by newer better tuners?

It was replaced with a Denon receiver. I considered just a tuner to
use with the 3020 but my wife wanted remote control and the receiver
was not much more than just a tuner. There is a surprisingly poor
choice of FM tuners these days. It seems that few people want them.
I am currently very happy with this tuner. As well as a good sound,
features such as remote control and RDS are attractive.

So the 3020 is back in the loft but I am keeping it. If it can sound
good after 20 years, it can last a few more and I may find another use
for it.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

Chances are the tuner was out of alignment, there's not much to go wrong
with power amplifiers.

Thanks.

Do you expect that is all or most of the reason? The difference in
quality between this old tuner and the newer NAD 701 and the Denon
that I just bought is huge.

Or in other words, how much has the sound quality of FM tuners
improved in the last 20 years? There have been considerable
improvements in ease of use, I now have preset stations, RDS and
remote control which are all very nice. But I wonder if the new one
sounds much better than the old one did originally.

On the other hand, the amplifier still sounds good by today's
standards. If the quality has improved then it is beyond me to detect
it though I have not done a very scientific side by side test.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

Sean O'Leathlobhair wrote:

(big ol' snip)

Or in other words, how much has the sound quality of FM tuners
improved in the last 20 years? There have been considerable
improvements in ease of use, I now have preset stations, RDS and
remote control which are all very nice. But I wonder if the new one
sounds much better than the old one did originally.

I would say that the sound quality of FM tuners has decreased steadily for
about 15-20 years. There are a VERY VERY few high end tuners that can
compete favorably to most higher-end tuners of two decades ago. While
shopping for a Magnum Dynalab, I ended up getting an ancient Sansui TU-9900,
and I'd argue that they're fairly comparable. (the Sansui after an alignment
may be better)

Nobody listens to music on FM anymore. Most of the stations are heavily
compressed, which makes a good tuner pointless. Most of the stations
compress because they can put out a higher apparent signal level, and
besides--no one has good tuners anymore. It's a big vicious cycle.

I'm lucky--including campus radio, I have three excellent stations locally
that broadcast the highest quality signal possible. Now I just need to find
someone to align this ol' tuner of mine.

Colin

"Colin B." wrote in message
...
Sean O'Leathlobhair wrote:

(big ol' snip)

Or in other words, how much has the sound quality of FM tuners
improved in the last 20 years? There have been considerable
improvements in ease of use, I now have preset stations, RDS and
remote control which are all very nice. But I wonder if the new one
sounds much better than the old one did originally.

I would say that the sound quality of FM tuners has decreased steadily for
about 15-20 years. There are a VERY VERY few high end tuners that can
compete favorably to most higher-end tuners of two decades ago. While
shopping for a Magnum Dynalab, I ended up getting an ancient Sansui
TU-9900,
and I'd argue that they're fairly comparable. (the Sansui after an
alignment
may be better)

Nobody listens to music on FM anymore. Most of the stations are heavily
compressed, which makes a good tuner pointless. Most of the stations
compress because they can put out a higher apparent signal level, and
besides--no one has good tuners anymore. It's a big vicious cycle.



Most FM stations are flooded with advertisements and 90% crappy music too,
that probably is the biggest reason for it's decline aside from the
convenience of CD's.

Here in Tucson, we have a 24-hour Classical station from the University of
Arizona. I think it has excellent sound quality.

Speaking of radios, I'm gonna start looking for some of those nice table
radios Magnavox had in the 60s/70s. Beautiful cabinets and nice sound.

BobbyB
Tucson, AZ

On 28 Aug 2004 17:26:17 GMT, (Pcaorwb) wrote:

Here in Tucson, we have a 24-hour Classical station from the University of
Arizona. I think it has excellent sound quality.

Speaking of radios, I'm gonna start looking for some of those nice table
radios Magnavox had in the 60s/70s. Beautiful cabinets and nice sound.

BobbyB
Tucson, AZ

when i was in college back in 70, i picked up a big westinghouse
cabinet am/fm/turntable for $15 at the disabled war vets store.
i went down the street to SAFEWAY and bought a missing tube for $3.
Yeah, SAFEWAY was selling tubes in 1970. Thing fired up and worked
great. I replaced the old sledgehammer turntable with a $50 turntable
and had reasonable sound for the money. Only mono, but it rocked.

got rid of it down the road. too bad, but sometimes you can't
warehouse all the stuff you find.

it would have make a real good big tube TV stand these days

"Charlie+" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:47:29 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote as underneath my scribble :

Might be worth your taking a listen to BBC Radio 3 (bbc.co.uk) which
is mainly classical and I think available streamed on the web 24 hrs a
day - no ads - and top quality as broadcast FM in the uk - however the
BBC web quality will probably take a hit through compression but I
have no idea how much - might be worth a try for you guys though!!
Or BBC Radio 1 for modern music, or BBC Radio 2 for medium music and
comedy or BBC Radio 4 for current affairs comedy and mainly voice or
BBC Radio 7 for old rerun voice comedy etc. -- all with no
commercial ads.! Shedules are all available on the same website
though afraid youll' have to put up with Brit voices and humour
etc!!.
PS I have nothing to do with BBC!
Charlie+


Web radio is great when you're home, but it kinda defeats the convenience of
radio in the first place aside from that.

"James Sweet" wrote in message news:s8RYc.1703$O85.1557@trnddc05...
"Charlie+" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:47:29 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote as underneath my scribble :

Might be worth your taking a listen to BBC Radio 3 (bbc.co.uk) which
is mainly classical and I think available streamed on the web 24 hrs a
day - no ads - and top quality as broadcast FM in the uk - however the
BBC web quality will probably take a hit through compression but I
have no idea how much - might be worth a try for you guys though!!
Or BBC Radio 1 for modern music, or BBC Radio 2 for medium music and
comedy or BBC Radio 4 for current affairs comedy and mainly voice or
BBC Radio 7 for old rerun voice comedy etc. -- all with no
commercial ads.! Shedules are all available on the same website
though afraid youll' have to put up with Brit voices and humour
etc!!.
PS I have nothing to do with BBC!
Charlie+


Web radio is great when you're home, but it kinda defeats the convenience of
radio in the first place aside from that.

Yes we are lucky here in the UK. The BBC, at least for some stations,
maintains high standards. If you like classical music then it is
worth getting a good quality tuner just for BBC Radio 3. It is also
good for BBC Radio 4 even though it is primarily talk, some of the
talk is drama. Classic FM, an independent classical network, also has
quite good standards.

Here, there are several ways to receive BBCR3.

There is a national network of FM transmitters which cover almost all
of the country. This is very good quality.

It is available on the DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting). I have no
personal experience of this. DAB gets a lot of criticism in the UK
since it seems that the broadcasters have chosen to use high
compression and lots of channels rather than fewer channels and higher
quality. I have read that BBCR3 uses the highest rate and some, at
least, think that the quality is good.

DTTV (Digital Terrestrial TV) is also active here and carries some
radio channels as well as TV. The bit rates of the radio stations are
higher than DAB and if your reception and equipment are good then the
quality is good. Whether it is better or worse than FM depends on
reception conditions, your equipment and subjective factors.

I know nothing at all about web radio.

I normally use FM for BBC radio but DTTV is close and I use it for
recording since I have this nice Humax PVR which makes recording of TV
or radio from DTTV very easy.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

"James Sweet" wrote in message news:s8RYc.1703$O85.1557@trnddc05...
"Charlie+" wrote in message
news
On Sat, 28 Aug 2004 02:47:29 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote as underneath my scribble :

Might be worth your taking a listen to BBC Radio 3 (bbc.co.uk) which
is mainly classical and I think available streamed on the web 24 hrs a
day - no ads - and top quality as broadcast FM in the uk - however the
BBC web quality will probably take a hit through compression but I
have no idea how much - might be worth a try for you guys though!!
Or BBC Radio 1 for modern music, or BBC Radio 2 for medium music and
comedy or BBC Radio 4 for current affairs comedy and mainly voice or
BBC Radio 7 for old rerun voice comedy etc. -- all with no
commercial ads.! Shedules are all available on the same website
though afraid youll' have to put up with Brit voices and humour
etc!!.
PS I have nothing to do with BBC!
Charlie+


Web radio is great when you're home, but it kinda defeats the convenience of
radio in the first place aside from that.

Yes we are lucky here in the UK. The BBC, at least for some stations,
maintains high standards. If you like classical music then it is
worth getting a good quality tuner just for BBC Radio 3. It is also
good for BBC Radio 4 even though it is primarily talk, some of the
talk is drama. Classic FM, an independent classical network, also has
quite good standards.

Here, there are several ways to receive BBCR3.

There is a national network of FM transmitters which cover almost all
of the country. This is very good quality.

It is available on the DAB (Digital Audio Broadcasting). I have no
personal experience of this. DAB gets a lot of criticism in the UK
since it seems that the broadcasters have chosen to use high
compression and lots of channels rather than fewer channels and higher
quality. I have read that BBCR3 uses the highest rate and some, at
least, think that the quality is good.

DTTV (Digital Terrestrial TV) is also active here and carries some
radio channels as well as TV. The bit rates of the radio stations are
higher than DAB and if your reception and equipment are good then the
quality is good. Whether it is better or worse than FM depends on
reception conditions, your equipment and subjective factors.

I know nothing at all about web radio.

I normally use FM for BBC radio but DTTV is close and I use it for
recording since I have this nice Humax PVR which makes recording of TV
or radio from DTTV very easy.

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

"Colin B." wrote in message ...
Sean O'Leathlobhair wrote:

(big ol' snip)

Or in other words, how much has the sound quality of FM tuners
improved in the last 20 years? There have been considerable
improvements in ease of use, I now have preset stations, RDS and
remote control which are all very nice. But I wonder if the new one
sounds much better than the old one did originally.

I would say that the sound quality of FM tuners has decreased steadily for
about 15-20 years. There are a VERY VERY few high end tuners that can
compete favorably to most higher-end tuners of two decades ago. While
shopping for a Magnum Dynalab, I ended up getting an ancient Sansui TU-9900,
and I'd argue that they're fairly comparable. (the Sansui after an alignment
may be better)

Certainly there is much less choice than there used to be. 20 years
ago a HiFi magazine would have many pages of tuners. Today there are
just a few. I was looking at the bottom end of serious HiFi and had
only a few tuners or receivers to consider. 20 years ago I would have
had masses.

Nobody listens to music on FM anymore. Most of the stations are heavily
compressed, which makes a good tuner pointless. Most of the stations
compress because they can put out a higher apparent signal level, and
besides--no one has good tuners anymore. It's a big vicious cycle.

We get that problem but maybe no so bad. See my other post to this
thread today for some comments.

Devices such as MP3 players seem to be killing radio. At home, people
want pictures so they use TV and on the move MP3 players now are an
easy and cheap way to get the music you want. In the car, you can use
CD or MP3 again.

But there are still some radio fans left here and I am one of them.

I'm lucky--including campus radio, I have three excellent stations locally
that broadcast the highest quality signal possible. Now I just need to find
someone to align this ol' tuner of mine.

I am also lucky with the BBC stations. See further down the thread.

Colin

Seán O'Leathlóbhair

"Karel Jansen" wrote in message .. .

I expect it is a capacitor getting old.

This is what I was going to say, I just couldn't work out where in
this tangled thread to say it!

I have made several '70s tuners usable again by replacing aged
electrolytic capacitors. These dry out over time, especially where
there are lots of bulbs in the unit to light up the display.

I have recently upgraded to digital preset tuning, on a lovely JVC
FX-1010 I saw going cheap. Sensitive, low noise, two antennas,
accurate signal readout, optically isolated gubbins, mmm...

ALex