Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

--


Regards

John




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Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
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"John" john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?


It's to stop folk realising just how poor the implementation of DAB is in
this country is. (Quantity *way* over quality)

Tim

"John" john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

--



'Cos you've only been shopping on ebay?

Robert

John wrote:

Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

You could ask on alt.radio.digital but don't expect a reasonable answer
as the group is inhabited by a classic unemployeable newsgroup twerp by
the name of Steve who will just tell you that DAB sound quality is
terrible, that you're a fool for buying one and who will rapidly resort
to abuse if you dont "respect his author-a-tay". Very amusing to visit
but steve's noise-to-signal is such that it's next to useless for real
information.

I had a converasation about DAB radios with someone the other day on
this same point - why do they tend to look as if they've been made in
somebody's shed? It seems to be because it's only very small
manufacturers in the market at the moment. Sony and Technics made 19"
seperate DAB tuners in the early days (when bit-rates were higher and it
could be considered a hi-fi medium) which looked anything but retro.
When they re-enter the market (shortly if the rumours are correct) I
expect there will be a lot more choice.

AJ

"John" john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

--


Regards

John

Not sure really, but there are some nice-looking ones too.
Have a look at http://www.pure-digital.com/Products/digitalradio.asp
The DRX-*** models have had good reviews, and can still
be ordered in black, if that's your choice...

Al

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:29:19 -0000, "John"
john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote:

Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?


They're not, look.

http://tinyurl.com/3e58a


SJW
A.C.S. Ltd.

In article , Anthony
James writes
John wrote:

Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

You could ask on alt.radio.digital but don't expect a reasonable answer
as the group is inhabited by a classic unemployeable newsgroup twerp by
the name of Steve who will just tell you that DAB sound quality is
terrible, that you're a fool for buying one and who will rapidly resort
to abuse if you dont "respect his author-a-tay". Very amusing to visit
but steve's noise-to-signal is such that it's next to useless for real
information.

Digital radios are in mono because this suits the broadcasters who don't
give a toss for quality any longer and to save on transmission costs.
The Eureka 1471 digital broadcast system was sold on among other things
improves sound and transmission quality. Since that time the
broadcasters have discovered that it is possible by reducing the
transmitted bitrate that they can reduce the audio quality in order to
save transmission costs and or to fir t more stations in.

Apart from that the original idea was poorly conceived in that the CODEC
that's the thing that encodes the digital audio and decodes it back to
audio is MP2 which now is quite old and has been surpassed.
Unfortunately this is set in stone a better system would have been to
enabled over the air upgrades as the tech progressed. Imagine having to
be stuck with say WIN 3.11 or WIN 95, much the same thing.

Yes Steve does sometimes sound off, but a lot of but his intentions are
far more honest than what the broadcasters and regulators have been.
You can read it all here..

http://www.digitalradiotech.co.uk/

I had a converasation about DAB radios with someone the other day on
this same point - why do they tend to look as if they've been made in
somebody's shed? It seems to be because it's only very small
manufacturers in the market at the moment. Sony and Technics made 19"
seperate DAB tuners in the early days (when bit-rates were higher and it
could be considered a hi-fi medium) which looked anything but retro.
When they re-enter the market (shortly if the rumours are correct) I
expect there will be a lot more choice.

AJ

Unfortunalty some early adopters paid handsome sums for their equipment
only to be let down as the quality decreased and its getting worse as
stations are crammed in often in Mono only:-((

It may be noted that other countries who have adopted this system don't
screw it anywhere near as bad as what the UK does:-((

--
Tony Sayer

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:32 +0000, Anthony James
wrote:

You could ask on alt.radio.digital but don't expect a reasonable answer
as the group is inhabited by a classic unemployeable newsgroup twerp by
the name of Steve who will just tell you that DAB sound quality is
terrible, that you're a fool for buying one and who will rapidly resort
to abuse if you dont "respect his author-a-tay". Very amusing to visit
but steve's noise-to-signal is such that it's next to useless for real
information.

So that's where IMM gets to.....

PoP

If you really must use the email address provided
with my newsreader please be aware that the email
is processed with spamcop. As a result your email
to me might be treated as spam!

In article ,
John john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote:
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

Well, there's little point in having stereo if the speakers are only a few
inches apart. As regards the retro style, perhaps it's what the public
want?

--
*Money isn‘t everything, but it sure keeps the kids in touch

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In message , John
writes
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?


Define most. I was bought a Pure Evoke-2 for Christmas it is a stereo
model and looks *both* retro and modern in different ways (to my eyes).
Also as someone else said people seem to want retro at the moment.

The sound quality is great and most of the programming that listen to is
in stereo. There are also quite a few Hi-Fi separates DAB tuners
available now as well.

BraileTrail
--

"John" john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

My personal one ("sports") is definitely retro, looks as though it comes
from the 1950s, but is stereo.

Mary

--


Regards

John




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"Al Reynolds" wrote in message
...

"John" john.plant90@NO-SPAMntlworldDOTcom wrote in message
...
Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?

--


Regards

John

Not sure really, but there are some nice-looking ones too.

While I've been reading these posts I wondered why it's important to have
something you like the look of when it's for listening to ... beauty's in
the thing of the whatsit anyway.

Mary
Have a look at http://www.pure-digital.com/Products/digitalradio.asp
The DRX-*** models have had good reviews, and can still
be ordered in black, if that's your choice...

Al

On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:32 +0000, Anthony James
wrote:

as the group is inhabited by a classic unemployeable newsgroup twerp by
the name of Steve who will just tell you that DAB sound quality is
terrible, that you're a fool for buying one and who will rapidly resort
to abuse if you dont "respect his author-a-tay".


Second rule of Usenet: Just because he's a twerp, doesn't mean that
he's actually _wrong_.

DAB sound _is_ terrible. (mine's a Psion flashing krell-pod)


BTW - I have Cloth Ears. Well known for it.

If I play Suzanne Vega on CD or MP3, I can't tell the difference (for
that's what chummy at the Fraunhofer tested it with). But if I play
some local Brissel folk music (drum and bass), I surely can tell them
apart.

Is any broadcast system based on MP3 basically doomed, whatever you do
to the bitrate ? If so, and if the BBC really are talking about
dumping analogue, then what happens to R3 ?

--
Do whales have krillfiles ?

John wrote:

Why are most digital radios mono and in a retro style?



Because that gives the right 'AM' quality that matches the sound?

"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 14 Jan 2004 18:52:32 +0000, Anthony James
wrote:

Second rule of Usenet: Just because he's a twerp, doesn't mean that
he's actually _wrong_.
Indeed not, but 'muscling in' on every post with the same response is
pathetic. I paraphrase but:

"I'd like to buy a Wavefinder, where can i still find one?"
Steve "DAB sounds crap"
"I'd like to buy one anyway"
Steve "then you're an idiot. f*** off"

Not really helpful is it?

DAB sound _is_ terrible. (mine's a Psion flashing krell-pod)

It's not a Hi-Fi medium but I'd love to have 6Music in my car and kitchen -
Satellite or Freeview is NOT the answer for everyone.

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:

Imagine having to
be stuck with say WIN 3.11 or WIN 95, much the same thing.

Imagine having to be stuck with WIN anything shudder.

In uk.d-i-y, BraileTrail wrote:
There are also quite a few Hi-Fi separates DAB tuners available now as
well.

Yes, but what I don't understand is why DAB tuners are all so enormous.
If they can make DAB radios the size of fag packets, why is every DAB
tuner the size of the Manchester Yellow Pages? And with all that front
panel to play with you'd think they'd manage a decent-sized display and
a button for each preset. But no, you have to manage with a poxy little
scrolling window and repeated button-pressing/squinting just to find to
the channel you want. Grrrr.

--
Mike Barnes

In uk.d-i-y, Anthony James wrote:
It's not a Hi-Fi medium but I'd love to have 6Music in my car and kitchen -
Satellite or Freeview is NOT the answer for everyone.

I'd also love to have 6Music in the car. My first thoughts go in the
direction of a pocket DAB receiver and a low-power FM transmitter. But
they'd have to be powered from the car battery to avoid the need for a
trailer-full of AA batteries. Has anyone been down that road, so to
speak?

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, Anthony James wrote:

It's not a Hi-Fi medium but I'd love to have 6Music in my car and kitchen -
Satellite or Freeview is NOT the answer for everyone.


I'd also love to have 6Music in the car. My first thoughts go in the
direction of a pocket DAB receiver and a low-power FM transmitter. But
they'd have to be powered from the car battery to avoid the need for a
trailer-full of AA batteries. Has anyone been down that road, so to
speak?

reception on the pocket DABs has been pretty poor from the reviews i've
seen. I've also read very mixed reports of the FM transmitters (which i
was considering for my iPod), quite apart from which i believe they're
illegal in the UK.

In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote:
Second rule of Usenet: Just because he's a twerp, doesn't mean that
he's actually _wrong_.

Hmm.

DAB sound _is_ terrible. (mine's a Psion flashing krell-pod)

Well, it's better than either medium wave or FM with multi-path problems.
And gives a wide choice of stations that otherwise wouldn't be available.
You pays your money.

I only use it for R4 & 5. And it sounds pretty good on these.

A cheaper alternative for the mainstream stations in better quality is a
Freeview box - but this isn't portable.

--
*Work like you don't need the money. Love like you've never been hurt.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, BraileTrail wrote:
There are also quite a few Hi-Fi separates DAB tuners available now as
well.

Yes, but what I don't understand is why DAB tuners are all so enormous.
If they can make DAB radios the size of fag packets, why is every DAB
tuner the size of the Manchester Yellow Pages? And with all that front
panel to play with you'd think they'd manage a decent-sized display and
a button for each preset. But no, you have to manage with a poxy little
scrolling window and repeated button-pressing/squinting just to find to
the channel you want. Grrrr.


Its so that you "think" you are getting more for your money!. Mind you
DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(
--
Tony Sayer

In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
Mind you
DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(

Nor me, but I *do* like the extra channels. I'd rather have BBC 7 and 6
Music on DAB than not at all.

--
Mike Barnes

In article ,
Steve Firth wrote:
BBC seems to think that "choice" is better than "quality". As they do
with TV at the moment. I saw some stupid advrt on BBC ranting on about
"more choice", I'd like an end to wall to wall ****e and would be happy
with just one channel if the content was worth watching.

The Falklands War film followed by the Clark diaries on BBC 4 were well
worth a watch tonight.

--
*(on a baby-size shirt) "Party -- my crib -- two a.m

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
Mind you
DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(

Nor me, but I *do* like the extra channels. I'd rather have BBC 7 and 6
Music on DAB than not at all.


If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....
--
Tony Sayer

In article , Steve Firth
writes
tony sayer wrote:

Mind you DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(

Radio 3 is OK, better than FM IMO.

Its about on par if you dont mind Digital artefacts and that MPEG
metallic sound that crops up on some programming, but good well received
FM with a good aerial signal still sounds more natural IMHO too:-))


Err that's it.

BBC seems to think that "choice" is better than "quality". As they do
with TV at the moment. I saw some stupid advrt on BBC ranting on about
"more choice", I'd like an end to wall to wall ****e and would be happy
with just one channel if the content was worth watching.

Agreed!.....

I've bought bloody hundreds of DVDs in recent months, it's the only way
I seem to be able to watch something that doesn't suck your brain out
and gob it down the pan.


We don't have a DVD player yet and I don't think I'm getting one
either:-(

Hmm, I think I'll go watch Futurama.


--
Tony Sayer

In article ,
tony sayer wrote:
Nor me, but I *do* like the extra channels. I'd rather have BBC 7 and 6
Music on DAB than not at all.


If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

Only snag is these aren't available in a portable radio. And DAB will
sound fine on one of these.

--
*Be nice to your kids. They'll choose your nursing home.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
Mind you
DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(

Nor me, but I *do* like the extra channels. I'd rather have BBC 7 and 6
Music on DAB than not at all.


If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

Good idea... a Freeview box would save money as well, being about half
the price of a DAB tuner. But does anyone know:

- is the sound quality going to be OK?

- is it more likely to manage with an indoor aerial, less likely, or
the same? (the FM tuner gets a good signal with a bit of wire stuck in
the back)

- how practical is it to use it as a radio tuner without a TV? (I could
take it to the TV room for setting-up first).

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

--
Mike Barnes

Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

If you happened to get your broadband down NTL's cable (or Telewest I
believe), they add quite a lot of FM radio to the feed in most regions. You
can tee-in and wire to a radio, hit seek and find all sorts. 5live in stereo
is just the job for me. If you subscribe to a basic NTL TV package there are
all the radio stations available as channels, but this does not strike me as
very user friendly.

--
Toby.

'One day son, all this will be finished'

In article ,
Mike Barnes wrote:
Good idea... a Freeview box would save money as well, being about half
the price of a DAB tuner. But does anyone know:

- is the sound quality going to be OK?

Yes - as good as you'll get.

- is it more likely to manage with an indoor aerial, less likely, or
the same? (the FM tuner gets a good signal with a bit of wire stuck in
the back)

Pretty unlikely to work without a decent outside aerial, I'm afraid. It's
not designed for mobile or portable use.

- how practical is it to use it as a radio tuner without a TV? (I could
take it to the TV room for setting-up first).

No problems. Once it's stored the stations it can be moved.

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

Nothing 'digital' ever is easy. The public wouldn't like it if it was.

--
*When the chips are down, the buffalo is empty.

Dave Plowman London SW 12
RIP Acorn

In uk.d-i-y, Toby wrote:
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

If you happened to get your broadband down NTL's cable (or Telewest I
believe), they add quite a lot of FM radio to the feed in most regions. You
can tee-in and wire to a radio, hit seek and find all sorts. 5live in stereo
is just the job for me. If you subscribe to a basic NTL TV package there are
all the radio stations available as channels, but this does not strike me as
very user friendly.

Nice idea but NTL's cable stops about 15 metres short of this house and
they refuse to connect us... so BT ADSL it is. The Internet radio is
pretty good but I'd prefer a dedicated receiver.

--
Mike Barnes

Toby" wrote in message
...
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

If you happened to get your broadband down NTL's cable (or Telewest I
believe), they add quite a lot of FM radio to the feed in most regions.
You
can tee-in and wire to a radio, hit seek and find all sorts.

As I understand it that analogue feed is only available to existing
customers: new customers need a set top box and get digital. That's for TV
but I assume analogue FM follows suit.

So presumably they'll ditch the analogue feed to existing customers at some
point, too :-(


--
John Stumbles
-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-|-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+-+
-+
Women always generalise

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
Mind you
DAB and hi-fi aren't words I'd use together:-(

Nor me, but I *do* like the extra channels. I'd rather have BBC 7 and 6
Music on DAB than not at all.


If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

Good idea... a Freeview box would save money as well, being about half
the price of a DAB tuner. But does anyone know:

- is the sound quality going to be OK?

Its certainly better than DAB on most stations the only sizeable station
missing is Classic FM but I believe that may be added before long.

- is it more likely to manage with an indoor aerial, less likely, or
the same? (the FM tuner gets a good signal with a bit of wire stuck in
the back)

The Freeview is more likely to need an outside TV aerial rather than a
bit of wire stuck in the back This bit of wire often sods up FM from
what it can be:-(

- how practical is it to use it as a radio tuner without a TV? (I could
take it to the TV room for setting-up first).


No problems at all we have our on a lot of the time for Jazz FM which is
a tad awkward to receive here.

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

The joined converged tech eh?......


--
Tony Sayer

In article , Toby
writes
Mike Barnes wrote:
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

So many questions. It ought to be easier than this.

If you happened to get your broadband down NTL's cable (or Telewest I
believe), they add quite a lot of FM radio to the feed in most regions. You
can tee-in and wire to a radio, hit seek and find all sorts. 5live in stereo
is just the job for me. If you subscribe to a basic NTL TV package there are
all the radio stations available as channels, but this does not strike me as
very user friendly.


Unfortunately the quality on an ntl feed can be very variable depending
on how they set the head end up etc.
--
Tony Sayer

"Dave Plowman" wrote
| - how practical is it to use it as a radio tuner without a
| TV? (I could take it to the TV room for setting-up first).
| No problems. Once it's stored the stations it can be moved.

And even easier to use if it's got an LED channel display on the front. An
old OnDodgy box could be ideal.

Owain

In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

[I couldn't find anywhere better to follow-up]

I tried a Freeview box and, as someone predicted, it simply wouldn't
work with a length of wire for an aerial.

So I took it back and got an Acoustic Solutions SP110 tuner from Curry's
for GBP 89.99. It's a lot better than I expected for the price - solidly
built, good sound, works well with the supplied indoor aerial, four
preset buttons on the front panel. Whinges are (1) it's huge, but has a
small scrolling display (but other tuners seem to be the same) and (2)
the remote would be an extra 19.99 (as it happens I don't particularly
want one, but at 109.98 the total would still be a lot cheaper than the
competition).

Thanks to everyone who advised.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
If you want digital radio for home fixed hi-fi use you'd just as well
get a Freeview or Sky box, at least the bitrates are higher....

[I couldn't find anywhere better to follow-up]

I tried a Freeview box and, as someone predicted, it simply wouldn't
work with a length of wire for an aerial.

So I took it back and got an Acoustic Solutions SP110 tuner from Curry's
for GBP 89.99. It's a lot better than I expected for the price - solidly
built, good sound, works well with the supplied indoor aerial, four
preset buttons on the front panel. Whinges are (1) it's huge, but has a
small scrolling display (but other tuners seem to be the same) and (2)
the remote would be an extra 19.99 (as it happens I don't particularly
want one, but at 109.98 the total would still be a lot cheaper than the
competition).


What do you consider the competition to be?....

--
Tony Sayer

In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
So I took it back and got an Acoustic Solutions SP110 tuner from Curry's
for GBP 89.99. It's a lot better than I expected for the price - solidly
built, good sound, works well with the supplied indoor aerial, four
preset buttons on the front panel. Whinges are (1) it's huge, but has a
small scrolling display (but other tuners seem to be the same) and (2)
the remote would be an extra 19.99 (as it happens I don't particularly
want one, but at 109.98 the total would still be a lot cheaper than the
competition).


What do you consider the competition to be?....

Other boxes that caught my attention (sometimes very briefly) included:

Pure DRX601ESM £229.99
Aria A-4000 £199.99 (not yet available AFAIK)
Sony ST-D777ES £518.33
Videologic DRX601ES £280.00

That's not an exhaustive list and I've just grabbed model numbers and
prices from random web pages since I'm no longer interested, but you get
the idea I'm sure.

Any other suggestions welcome because now that she's seen mine, SWMBO
wants something for her study as well.

--
Mike Barnes

In article , Mike Barnes
writes
In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
So I took it back and got an Acoustic Solutions SP110 tuner from Curry's
for GBP 89.99. It's a lot better than I expected for the price - solidly
built, good sound, works well with the supplied indoor aerial, four
preset buttons on the front panel. Whinges are (1) it's huge, but has a
small scrolling display (but other tuners seem to be the same) and (2)
the remote would be an extra 19.99 (as it happens I don't particularly
want one, but at 109.98 the total would still be a lot cheaper than the
competition).


What do you consider the competition to be?....

Other boxes that caught my attention (sometimes very briefly) included:

Pure DRX601ESM £229.99
Aria A-4000 £199.99 (not yet available AFAIK)
Sony ST-D777ES £518.33
Videologic DRX601ES £280.00

That's not an exhaustive list and I've just grabbed model numbers and
prices from random web pages since I'm no longer interested, but you get
the idea I'm sure.


Right, I thought you were comparing DTV Freeview boxes as an alternative
to DAB. You're quite OK in your choice of DAB receiver as its not worth
spending that much on because of the poor audio quality. I bought a fine
PACE Freeview receiver for a friend for Xmas for around 60 ish quid and
it gives fine BBC radio plus some other EMAP stations and extra TV
channels and worked fine of an existing aerial!.

Any other suggestions welcome because now that she's seen mine, SWMBO
wants something for her study as well.

Get her a Freeview TV card for the PC, its keeps my SWMBO occupied for
hours!.....
--
Tony Sayer

In uk.d-i-y, tony sayer wrote:
In article , Mike Barnes
writes
Any other suggestions welcome because now that she's seen mine, SWMBO
wants something for her study as well.

Get her a Freeview TV card for the PC, its keeps my SWMBO occupied for
hours!.....

Same problem - no aerial. :-(

I think I'll probably get her one of those Perstel fag-packet-sized
portables.

Stop press: I've just discovered the Psion Wavefinder - could be just
the job.

--
Mike Barnes

"tony sayer" wrote in message
...

Get her a Freeview TV card for the PC, its keeps my SWMBO occupied for
hours!.....

What would you suggest for a decent mains digital radio, please?

Mary
--
Tony Sayer