SEVEN SEVILLE wrote:

Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

Kenwood makes a whole line of good MP3 capable players without
satellite radio. They work very well in fact.

"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the
local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3
players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I
would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Hmm, interestin thing about compression. I understand you're not interested
in XM, but I have to "rant." I picked up my XM radio a year or so ago. It
was Alpine's XMA-T200RF unit. It came with an FM modulator to make it
co-exist with stock systems easier. I, too, could hear the compression
artifacts. I believe some stations are dynamically allocated bandwidth and
suffer from compression less.

Anyways, I decided to crack open the XM receiver and tap into the line
outputs (that go to the modulator) and run them to my stereo. It could be a
placebo effect, but it sounded better. Going direct got rid of the FM
bandwidth limitations. Again, this could be purely subjective, but I didn't
notice the compression artifacts as much.

Just my two quid,

-Tim


Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in
my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of
cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will play MP3's. MP3
is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the
new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's.

As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the
local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local
rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because
of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the
signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when
listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test
on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the
subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting.
For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen
to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful.

--

Where you went for your radio, I have to say that the salesman is not really
an idiot, if you know what I mean. He wants to make his commissions. He
probably gets paid mainly on his sales. If he can sell you a subscription
for the XM service, he and his employer will have a continuous commission
for each month your are paying for a period of up to 1 year (from what I
have read).

Many of these services pay the vendor a commission for the sale, and then a
commission for each month that the subscriber stays with his plan. This is
how it works over here with the sales of satellite TV and telephone
services. I the area where I am located, our telephone company pays the
vendor about $15 for each contract subscription that they sell. They then
get about 3% up to about 10%, depending on the type of contract of sale, of
the subscriber's payments for up to one year as commission of sale. The
dealers usually split this with the employee who did the sale. I know of
some salesmen who have many hundreds of these types of sales under them.
They are making a good income from this alone.

I have seen situations where the salesmen will lie about the availability of
a product, because he wants to make a bigger commission from the one that
the already has. Or, he does not have the one you want in stock, and he is
too anxious to sell you another type that he has in stock.

In your case, I am very sure that the salesman wants to suck you in to
taking the services so that he can make extra cash for himself, and have
more points from his employer. If he is the owner or a partner in the
establishment, he probably even makes more for himself. There are many
stores where I will not go in to because of the pressure to buy from them.
They come after you like hungry dogs!

When purchasing at any store, make sure that you understand their return
policy. This is important in case you buy something, and you are not happy
with it. Always check out a number of places for the same type of item
before putting down your money for it. Carefully compare prices and options
available for what you are buying.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players
and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would
be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in
my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of
cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will now play MP3's.
MP3
is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the
new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's.

As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the
local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local
rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because
of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the
signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when
listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test
on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the
subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting.
For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen
to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful.

--

Where you went for your radio, I have to say that the salesman is not really
an idiot, if you know what I mean. He wants to make his commissions. He
probably gets paid mainly on his sales. If he can sell you a subscription
for the XM service, he and his employer will have a continuous commission
for each month your are paying for a period of up to 1 year (from what I
have read).

Many of these services pay the vendor a commission for the sale, and then a
commission for each month that the subscriber stays with his plan. This is
how it works over here with the sales of satellite TV and telephone
services. I the area where I am located, our telephone company pays the
vendor about $15 for each contract subscription that they sell. They then
get about 3% up to about 10%, depending on the type of contract of sale, of
the subscriber's payments for up to one year as commission of sale. The
dealers usually split this with the employee who did the sale. I know of
some salesmen who have many hundreds of these types of sales under them.
They are making a good income from this alone.

I have seen situations where the salesmen will lie about the availability of
a product, because he wants to make a bigger commission from the one that
the already has. Or, he does not have the one you want in stock, and he is
too anxious to sell you another type that he has in stock.

In your case, I am very sure that the salesman wants to suck you in to
taking the services so that he can make extra cash for himself, and have
more points from his employer. If he is the owner or a partner in the
establishment, he probably even makes more for himself. There are many
stores where I will not go in to because of the pressure to buy from them.
They come after you like hungry dogs!

When purchasing at any store, make sure that you understand their return
policy. This is important in case you buy something, and you are not happy
with it. Always check out a number of places for the same type of item
before putting down your money for it. Carefully compare prices and options
available for what you are buying.

--

Greetings,

Jerry Greenberg GLG Technologies GLG
=========================================
WebPage http://www.zoom-one.com
Electronics http://www.zoom-one.com/electron.htm
=========================================


"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players
and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would
be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

why not grab a Nomad Zen player and a $20 FM modulator?


"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the
local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3
players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I
would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 04:15:09 -0500, SEVEN SEVILLE wrote:

Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the
local electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car
stereo guy (just last week he was working the television department) about
MP3 players and he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and
suggested that I would be happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta
just stick with the stock AM/FM that's in there right now. Not much
difference between XM and FM you know, they even had a sample in the
showroom and you can hear the compression artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

All I do to play my MP3s in the company car is, I just burn them onto
CDRWs as audio-CDs (the Ford CD-player that's fitted, plays CDRWs OK).
When I'm tired of the selections, I just re-format the CDRW and start
again.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

Jerry G. wrote:

You can get car radios that are FM/AM/CD that will play MP3's. The one in
my car will do all of these but not play MP3's. There are many models of
cars being sold with standard FM/AM/CD car radios that will play MP3's. MP3
is just another standard that requires its own type of decoding. Many of the
new CD and DVD players for home use will play MP3's.

As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear the
local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local
rock and jazz stations. With XM radio, you pay and just get music. Because
of the quality of most of these radios, and the way that they compress the
signals, I found them to have some artefacts to my perception when
listening. I personally would not go to the bother of doing a detailed test
on one of these. Another thing, in my personal opinion, I don't think the
subscription fees for satellite radio are worth for what I would be getting.
For the amount of time that a person spends in their car, or even to listen
to radio at home, I think these fees can be put for something more useful.

--

Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription.
BUT, there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where
it would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have
these in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio
sucks. The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO.
It would be good for background music in commercial establishments too.
(rights issues aside)

Bob



-----= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =-----
http://www.newsfeeds.com - The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World!
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On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote:

Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT,
there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would
be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there
cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM
works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO.

Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial
based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are
pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word.

It would be good for
background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside)

I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial
satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the
UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust.

--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote:

Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT,
there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it would
be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these in there
cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks. The XM
works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO.

Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial
based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are
pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word.

Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV? I'm pretty
sure that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same
paradigm as you do. I could be wrong about this, but I seem to
remember having to choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper
paperwork.

It would be good for
background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues aside)

I think that a commercial account would be covered in terms of rights.
It would be built into rental.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:35:59 -0600, dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote:

Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT,
there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it
would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these
in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks.
The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO.

Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial
based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are
pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word.

Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV?

Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to
buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC
national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is
also commercial free.

I'm pretty sure
that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same paradigm as
you do.

AFAIK most of Western Europe has some sort of TV licensing system, usually
to fund the national broadcaster.

I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember having to
choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper paperwork.

The license choice here is a Black & White (monochrome) or Colour TV
license, and it's been like that since the late '60s.
http://www.tv-l.co.uk/

It would be good for
background music in commercial establishments too. (rights issues
aside)

I think that a commercial account would be covered in terms of rights.
It would be built into rental.

Yup it's the same with pay-TV satellite/cable here.
www.sky.com
www.telewest.co.uk
www.ntl.co.uk


--
Michael Turner
Email (ROT13)

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 18:01:12 +0000, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 11:35:59 -0600, dave weil wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 17:10:17 +0000, michael turner
wrote:

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 10:20:55 -0600, (remove)sound wrote:

Personally, i do not own one and would not pay for a subscription. BUT,
there are many people who spend a lot of time in there cars where it
would be beneficial. A few trucking companies i do work for have these
in there cross country trucks. Going across the mountains, radio sucks.
The XM works. They love it. Is it for everybody? NO.

Here in the UK we have a free digital radio service, this is terrestrial
based rather than satellite. Gives about 40 stations, some of them are
pure-music (with some commercials), no DJs, no spoken-word.

Don't you guys pay a radio license fee as you do for TV?

Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to
buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC
national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is
also commercial free.

I'm pretty sure
that in Germany, they do and they sort of operate on the same paradigm as
you do.

AFAIK most of Western Europe has some sort of TV licensing system, usually
to fund the national broadcaster.

I could be wrong about this, but I seem to remember having to
choose TV or TV/Radio when submitting the proper paperwork.

The license choice here is a Black & White (monochrome) or Colour TV
license, and it's been like that since the late '60s.
http://www.tv-l.co.uk/

Thanks for the info.

"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the
local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3
players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I
would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?


Alpine 98 series. I have the 9815. It was $350 ( $499 MSRP ). It can play
48KHz 320Kbps MP3's max which is near CD quality. ( if someone tells you
128K is, smack them ). FM tuner works great.

Bypassing the FM modulator and plugging direct will restore channel
separation, dynamic range, reduce distortion, reduce noise, and restore
freq. response (as you mentioned). Good move, that.


"Tim H." wrote in message
news:vcIXb.38418$yE5.137465@attbi_s54...

"SEVEN SEVILLE" wrote in message
...
Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the
local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car
stereo
guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3
players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I
would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock
AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you
know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Hmm, interestin thing about compression. I understand you're not
interested
in XM, but I have to "rant." I picked up my XM radio a year or so ago. It
was Alpine's XMA-T200RF unit. It came with an FM modulator to make it
co-exist with stock systems easier. I, too, could hear the compression
artifacts. I believe some stations are dynamically allocated bandwidth and
suffer from compression less.

Anyways, I decided to crack open the XM receiver and tap into the line
outputs (that go to the modulator) and run them to my stereo. It could be
a
placebo effect, but it sounded better. Going direct got rid of the FM
bandwidth limitations. Again, this could be purely subjective, but I
didn't
notice the compression artifacts as much.

Just my two quid,

-Tim


Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

ec wrote:


Alpine 98 series. I have the 9815. It was $350 ( $499 MSRP ). It can play
48KHz 320Kbps MP3's max which is near CD quality. ( if someone tells you
128K is, smack them ). FM tuner works great.

Btw - rough comparison:

128K - AM stereo quality.
192K - FM quality.(both with no hiss or artifacts, though)
240K - Tape or Vinyl.
320K - Good tape - Metal or Hi-fi VCR or R-R.

The quality jump from 128K to 192K alone is shocking. 320K
is half CD raw data in size, though with VBR compression and
a good encoder, you can get about 3/4 CD quality for about 1/3
the size - a nice compromise, IMO.

I'd consider 192K to be a bare minimum for a noisy environment.

I have both XM and Sirius in my car and love both services. Personally I
think it's worth the $25 a month I pay since I'm driving quite a bit and FM
broadcast leaves little to be desired around here. The DJ talk in the
mornings is pathetic. Both of my systems are FM modulated and sound pretty
good. Hey... you can't take it with you and I can afford it, so why not?
It's not contract service like cellular phones, so I can cancel anytime.

About the MP3 player comments... Wal-Mart sells a FM modulated CD/MP3 6 disc
changer for 90 bucks. I have one and it works great. Best Buy sells an
identical CD/MP3 unit, but branded differently, for $229... so I think the
Wal-Mart version is a pretty dang good deal.

"Jerry G." wrote in message
...

As for the satellite radio, I would not want this myself. I like to hear
the
local news and traffic reports when going around. I also like our local
rock and jazz stations.

Wal-Mart sells a FM modulated CD/MP3 6 disc
changer for 90 bucks. . Best Buy sells an identical
CD/MP3 unit, but branded differently, for $229...

What is the name of the two different name brands?

"ReEfErMaDnEsS" wrote in message
news:nZLXb.311811$I06.3160189@attbi_s01...
why not grab a Nomad Zen player and a $20 FM modulator?



That works, but it's rather kludgey, it's much nicer to have all the
controls right on the head unit.

michael turner wrote:

I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial
satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the
UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust.

We do. Many establishments get their canned music via DirecTV. Several
cable services also broadcast digital music channels, and in larger
markets they rebroadcast local AM/FM content for free over their Digital
Packages. A long time ago they had SCR (Satellite Commercial Radio)
which sent commercial free music over C-band satellites, but this was
largely replaced by the micro-dish providers.

For individuals, the market is much shallower. The consumer demand on
this side of the pond is image driven, and not equity driven. We still
don't have jack from RDS other than the station call letters, while in
some parts of Europe RDS actually changes the channel for you.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

michael turner wrote:
Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have to
buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC
national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is
also commercial free.

As much as I hate the idea of government providing products that could
be provided by the private sector, I have to say it's damn nice that BBC
doesn't put those annoying screen bugs over the shows. 3/4 of the
Farscape episodes I've downloaded are from the BBC, and its so nice not
to have the Sci Fi channels logo frelling up the action.

--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

ec wrote:
if someone tells you
128K is, smack them )

Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can
actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3
file than the bitrate.


--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

On Sun, 15 Feb 2004 20:09:05 -0500, thelizman
wrote:

michael turner wrote:

I thought commercial establishments stateside already had a commercial
satellite music service, DMX: www.dmxmusic.com. They tried DMX here in the
UK via cable a few years ago, but the company went bust.

For individuals, the market is much shallower. The consumer demand on
this side of the pond is image driven, and not equity driven. We still
don't have jack from RDS other than the station call letters, while in
some parts of Europe RDS actually changes the channel for you.

Too bad. I get DMX at my country house and I've enjoyed it for most
of the last 10 years.. The sound quality and program content, for me,
are vastly superior to what comes from cable and TV satellite
providers. Have not compared it to satellite radio but see no need
to.

Kal

"thelizman" wrote in message
...
michael turner wrote:
Nope the radio license got abolished in the early '60s. We still have
to
buy TV licenses however, this is used to fund the BBC, this includes BBC
national and local radio stations which are commercial free. BBC TV is
also commercial free.

As much as I hate the idea of government providing products that could
be provided by the private sector, I have to say it's damn nice that BBC
doesn't put those annoying screen bugs over the shows. 3/4 of the
Farscape episodes I've downloaded are from the BBC, and its so nice not
to have the Sci Fi channels logo frelling up the action.



Uhg, don't even get me started on those damn logos, I've seen so many nice
projection sets with them burned in.

Also take note that the original poster is one of those cross posting twits,
please delete the other groups from future replies.

Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses when
you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than FM
to me.


Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can
actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3
file than the bitrate.

Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses
when
you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than
FM
to me.

He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression
algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is DEcoding
the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across
players.

Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses
when
you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than
FM
to me.

He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression
algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is
DEcoding
the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across
players.



I understand - so was I. When you buy a song from Itunes or Napster, they
made the MP3. It's 128K. It sounds very close to cd quality.

I was wondering what codec, or encoding algorithm they use to make quality
Mp3s at 128K.

Z Gluhak wrote:

Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes uses

when

you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better than

FM

to me.

He was referring to the encoding algorithm. That is, the compression
algorithm used to MAKE mp3s from cds. What you're referring to is

DEcoding

the "universal" mp3 code, which should (theoretically) be the same across
players.




I understand - so was I. When you buy a song from Itunes or Napster, they
made the MP3. It's 128K. It sounds very close to cd quality.

I was wondering what codec, or encoding algorithm they use to make quality
Mp3s at 128K.

Z Gluhak wrote:

Hey thelizman do you know how quality of a codec Napster or Itunes
uses when
you pay the buck for a song from them? It definitely sounds better
than FM
to me.

Apple offers a tool for the record companies to encode their own
files--the "Music Store Encoder Tool." I haven't run across a copy
yet...

iTunes uses a 128 kbps bitrate, but they use AAC format instead of MP3.
They say it's roughly equivalent to a 160 kbps MP3, but on
complex/fast/detailed songs I've found that I want a higher bitrate.

Here's some info:
http://www.apple.com/mpeg4/aac/

Stuff like Jack Johnson or Norah Jones generally sounds fine to me; it's
fast punk rock--especially the drums and cymbals--that start sounding
"syrupy" to me. (That's the only way I know to describe it.)

From what I've read, Apple tries to rip the file from the original
studio masters/tapes which explains the high sound quality. If only
they'd offer songs encoded at 160 or 192 kbps...


HTH,
Adam

"Adam Drew" wrote in message
...


Stuff like Jack Johnson or Norah Jones generally sounds fine to me; it's
fast punk rock--especially the drums and cymbals--that start sounding
"syrupy" to me. (That's the only way I know to describe it.)


Well, that sounds like cd quality to me!




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thelizman wrote:

ec wrote:

if someone tells you
128K is, smack them )


Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can
actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3
file than the bitrate.

Once you know what to listen for, it's plainly obvious which is which.
You can do this yourself, btw - encode a track and then play the CD
right after it. For instance, on a Steve Morse song, you couldn't
hear what type of drum heads or cymbals he was usin at anything
less that 192K, while on the CD - it was clear(as each majotr brand
has a different sound, just like synths/keyboards/pianos do)

The "syrupy" description is perfect, IMO - the syllabance and
ring and crispness slowly degrades until it sounds like very
clean FM or AM radio if you push it enough. By the time you get
to 128K, a CD to 128K side-by-side comparison is painfully
revealing.

One of our customers brought one of the WalMart changers in for us to
install and mentioned that it was only 50 bucks... It was a 10 CD/MP3
changer with a nice scrolling dot-matrix display. The changer was
'Durabrand'... I had to go to WalMart to see for myself - Sure enough! They
were on closeout for $50.00 (3 left...)

David
SoundworksCarAudio.com




"Masterson" wrote in message
...
Wal-Mart sells a FM modulated CD/MP3 6 disc
changer for 90 bucks. . Best Buy sells an identical
CD/MP3 unit, but branded differently, for $229...

What is the name of the two different name brands?

I agree with the IDIOT salesman....

Since I got XM radio almost two years ago I have only
listened to MP3s in the car a couple of times. XM is awsome!

Eddie Runner

SEVEN SEVILLE wrote:

Looking for an MP3 player for my recently acquired truck I went to the local
electronics store which shall remain nameless. I asked the the car stereo guy
(just last week he was working the television department) about MP3 players and
he showed me a few and told me all this riff raff and suggested that I would be
happier with XM radio. I was like WTF, i outta just stick with the stock AM/FM
that's in there right now. Not much difference between XM and FM you know,
they even had a sample in the showroom and you can hear the compression
artyfacts.

Does any of you own an car MP3 player?

Who makes it?
How much did it cost?
How well does it play MP3's?
How does the FM tuner come in?

thelizman said:

As much as I hate the idea of government providing products that could
be provided by the private sector, I have to say it's damn nice that BBC
doesn't put those annoying screen bugs over the shows. 3/4 of the
Farscape episodes I've downloaded are from the BBC, and its so nice not
to have the Sci Fi channels logo frelling up the action.

Hey, that's capitalism! *grin*

--
Sander deWaal
Vacuum Audio Consultancy

"thelizman" wrote in message
...
ec wrote:
if someone tells you
128K is, smack them )

Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can
actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3
file than the bitrate.


--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

Qualify this, please. Mp3 is, by definition, lossy compression. How can an
Mp3 exceed the source signal? I don't believe it can.

"thelizman" wrote in message
...
ec wrote:
if someone tells you
128K is, smack them )

Smack yourself. 128 kbps on a quality codec for certain pieces can
actually exceed CD quality. There's more that goes into coding an MP3
file than the bitrate.


--
thelizman

teamROCS Car Audio Forums http://www.teamrocs.com/caraudio/
teamROCS Car Audio News http://www.teamrocs.com/news/
"It's about the music, stupid"

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

BTW, I listen to rock/metal. I use EAC and Lame using the "insane" preset. I
encode at 44K/320Kbps. If I listen to the mp3 and the CD in a blind
listening test, I always pick the CD as sounding better. No way a 128K mp3
of my music, regardless of encode technique, would ever touch the raw CD.

This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

BTW, I listen to rock/metal. I use EAC and Lame using the "insane" preset.
I
encode at 44K/320Kbps. If I listen to the mp3 and the CD in a blind
listening test, I always pick the CD as sounding better. No way a 128K mp3
of my music, regardless of encode technique, would ever touch the raw CD.

That's curious. How did you perform the test?

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
This post is Copyright (C) 2004. Reproduction of its content anywhere
other than the rec.audio.car newsgroup without the express written
permission of the author is forbidden.

BTW, I listen to rock/metal. I use EAC and Lame using the "insane"
preset.
I
encode at 44K/320Kbps. If I listen to the mp3 and the CD in a blind
listening test, I always pick the CD as sounding better. No way a 128K
mp3
of my music, regardless of encode technique, would ever touch the raw
CD.

That's curious. How did you perform the test?



Simple. I sat in my car and my fiance put each in. I listened and picked the
best, cleanest sound. Deck is an Alpine CDA-9815.

That's curious. How did you perform the test?



Simple. I sat in my car and my fiance put each in. I listened and picked
the
best, cleanest sound. Deck is an Alpine CDA-9815.

So not only were you able to distinguish between the two, but you could also
judge which was better? Interesting. How many trials? What was your
"score"? What music in particular?

"Mark Zarella" wrote in message
...
That's curious. How did you perform the test?



Simple. I sat in my car and my fiance put each in. I listened and picked
the
best, cleanest sound. Deck is an Alpine CDA-9815.

So not only were you able to distinguish between the two, but you could
also
judge which was better? Interesting. How many trials? What was your
"score"? What music in particular?



Well if one sounded better to him than the other I see no reason he
shouldn't stick with it, who really cares, every person will have their own
preference as to which sounds "better", it's very subjective.

Well if one sounded better to him than the other I see no reason he
shouldn't stick with it, who really cares, every person will have their
own
preference as to which sounds "better", it's very subjective.

It's well and good if it's subjective. What's important is identifying
whether or not it's REAL, and then identifying the source of the distortion.

On Mon, 16 Feb 2004 00:47:13 GMT, "James Sweet"
wrote:

I had a Jensen breifly

The only 'Jensen' I like is Jenny Jenssen. :-)
http://www.septimus.no/


--
-john
wide-open at throttle dot info

~~~~~~~~
Maybe I should ask Radio Shack. They claim they've got answers;
but frankly, if Radio Shack were our provider, we'd _really_ be in
trouble now, wouldn't we?
~~~~~~~~