On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 14:27:10 GMT, Justin put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Franc Zabkar wrote on [Tue, 06 Jan 2004 21:52:06 +1100]:
On Tue, 06 Jan 2004 05:17:24 GMT, Justin put
finger to keyboard and composed:

Or, is converting a movie to a different video format, and marketing
that product locally expected to cost no money to the licensee?

If you believe that there are genuine cost differences in producing
products for two different markets, then build this cost into the
price and let the consumer decide whether he wants to pay the higher
price. Don't restrict his choices using artificial means.

So, the people in the originating area should carry the cost for
importing into another?

I'm not sure what you mean here. If by "cost of importing" you mean
freight costs, then doesn't the end user ultimately pay for this
anyway?

My response was a bit.... weird.

OK, from your argument I took it to mean that you meant to build the
costs of producing the product for two different markets, then both of
those markets should cover the cost fo the second market.


Nevermind translation if it's not a primary language region.

If you wish to package DVD titles with localised features, and recover
your costs in doing so, then go right ahead. Just don't force me to
buy a localised version if I'm happy with an alternative. I want real
freedom of choice.

You have it.

Only if I can defeat region coding.

And that's fairly trivial.

Even if that were true, the point is that the consumer should not have
to resort to defeating artifical restrictions.

Have a look at this non-trivial region coding hack for a Sony
DVP-NS300 DVD player:

http://www.dvdrhelp.com/dvdhacks.php...Sony+DVP-NS300

To hack this player, one requires a special remote control. And even
if one does complete the convoluted process of converting this player
for multiregion use, there is still RCE to contend with.

And you can indeed buy the product from Market A and ship it to Market
B, you just have to have the right equipment to view it. Just like with
VHS beforehand. And the VHS multi platform hardware cost a lot more than
a region free DVD player.

VHS multiplatform hardware addresses *real* technical differences.
OTOH, DVD region coding is software based and artificial. There is no
real justification for the latter.

PAL/NTSC conversion is a real technical difference. Not all players can
do the conversion.

So make PAL and NTSC versions of your DVD titles and give me the
option of buying either. No need to use region coding.

You have it.

No. Region coding prevents me from playing European PAL titles in my
Australian PAL player, for example.

Also, DVDs are different to most other media as there is the film in the
theatre aspect to it. There are many cases where say, the USA DVD has
been released before the movie has even hit the theatre in some
countries.

Sorry, but I could care less for these discriminatory marketing
practices.

Discriminatory? Have you tried to distribute a movie? Do you know the
costs involved? Often one area release helps pay the distribution to
another. If the DVD were available locally then the theatre distribution
would be hurt.

So distribute the movie, make your money, and then release the DVD. No
need to resort to region coding.

So, let's take a smaller "big" movie, like Underworld, and see how this
works. This movie hasn't been released in Australia yet, but is on DVD
today. I'm assuming it's being released in Aus in January because it's a
"summer" movie, meaning something to entertain people in the air
conditioning in the summer heat. The US release of the DVD should be
held up because of this? Or the worldwide release should be?

I see your point. However, in this case there are two competing
interests, mine and theirs. I don't accept that my free access to DVD
titles should be forever thwarted by the studio's desire for an
orderly release. In any case, how did the studios survive when the
only format was region free VHS?

Besides, it's up to the licensee as to when and how they release a
product, not you.

That's just fine for American viewers. However, Australia gets short
shrift when it comes to product releases.

True enough. Australia get's the short shrift on everything else, too.


- Franc Zabkar
--
Please remove one 's' from my address when replying by email.

A Sony employee, no doubt!
"No Time" wrote in message
om...
Franc Zabkar wrote in message
. ..

Nevermind translation if it's not a primary language region.

If you wish to package DVD titles with localised features, and
recover
your costs in doing so, then go right ahead. Just don't force me to
buy a localised version if I'm happy with an alternative. I want real
freedom of choice.

You have it.

Only if I can defeat region coding.

Nice try. You have the choice to buy the product at whatever price the
market is charging in whatever the form the market is offering it, or
you don't. Isn't capitalism grand?


And you can indeed buy the product from Market A and ship it to
Market
B, you just have to have the right equipment to view it. Just like
with
VHS beforehand. And the VHS multi platform hardware cost a lot more
than
a region free DVD player.

VHS multiplatform hardware addresses *real* technical differences.
OTOH, DVD region coding is software based and artificial. There is no
real justification for the latter.

PAL/NTSC conversion is a real technical difference. Not all players can
do the conversion.

So make PAL and NTSC versions of your DVD titles and give me the
option of buying either. No need to use region coding.

No, sorry, they don't have to cater to you. You'll probably feel
better when you realize the world doesn't revolve around you.


Also, DVDs are different to most other media as there is the film in
the
theatre aspect to it. There are many cases where say, the USA DVD has
been released before the movie has even hit the theatre in some
countries.

Sorry, but I could care less for these discriminatory marketing
practices.

Discriminatory? Have you tried to distribute a movie? Do you know the
costs involved? Often one area release helps pay the distribution to
another. If the DVD were available locally then the theatre
distribution
would be hurt.

So distribute the movie, make your money, and then release the DVD. No
need to resort to region coding.

Except they're the ones who want to and it's their material. When you
actually produce a new media type, you can choose to make it more
accomodating to people who whine on usenet. Until then, you're out of
luck.


Besides, it's up to the licensee as to when and how they release a
product, not you.

That's just fine for American viewers. However, Australia gets short
shrift when it comes to product releases.

Then move. Simple enough. While you're getting your seed money
together, try to come to terms with the fact that you have no rights
whatsoever to other people's property; they make the rules and you can
either abide by them and attain their products or don't and not. Your
choice.


BTW, it's much more tedious going the other way. Finding a decent DVD
player that will do good PAL-NTSC conversion, including Anamorphic PAL
is hit or miss.... or expensive. Magnitudes of expensive.


- Franc Zabkar

Erich J. Schultheis wrote in message
...
I rented some movies from Blockbuster the other day and tried to burn them
to a DVD-R and my DVD recorder said "Can Not Copy".
The same thing happens when I borrow DVDs from friends and when I try to
copy my DVD disc for friends.
I can burn movies from digital cable and off the antenna just fine.
Is the DVD too high a resolution for my DVD recorder or do I have a bad
cable from my DVD player which is preventing me from recording to DVD?

Erich,

Basically, it's CGMS stopping you making a copy of a commercial DVD
(CopyGuard), which is what the recorder is supposed to be doing. Legally.

I'm with the others, go out and buy the movies in question if you like them.
You can afford a DVD recorder, right? and if off digital cable and the
antenna is fine, then how about buying the movies you really like?


Marcus

rstlne .@. wrote in message
...
Not sure what post was more of a laugh, his or yours..
I mean, Just look at the 3 LOTR films

You're missing the point. The other poster wanted to make COPIES of
COPYRIGHTED materials on his DVD recorder. That's just not on, sorry - hence
"cannot copy" being displayed. I really don't care if you think it's a laugh
or not - we'll see who's laughing when people like yourself get caught for
pirating and distributing copyrighted materials.

Think I'm kidding? Try me - the Australiasian Film & Video Securities Office
would LOVE to hear about that poster and their activities.

Marcus

rstlne .@. wrote in message
...
Now since you can get a recordable DVD then it falls under the RIAA, why,
cause you could record music on it..

That's right, and you can record music onto it - music which is subject to
copyright that you don't own is not a justifiable reason for recording.
Sorry.


Marcus

MR_ED_of_Course wrote in message
...

MUSIC: I have no problems with people sharing music by any means
necessary.
I think sharing music *is* the moral thing to do and the recording
industry
should be destroyed.

Bzzt. Sorry, wrong answer. Go ahead and share music, fine - DON'T share
music if it's copyrighted and you are not the copyright holder.

SOFTWA Likewise, I have no problems with people pirating any Microsoft
software. I have no problem with people pirating other productive
software
for personal use...in the sense of someone pirating PhotoShop so they can
be
familiar with it when they go to work somewhere that the company will buy
it
for them.

Sorry, wrong answer again. There's a thing called Shareware, and another
called Freeware, that you can legally distribute. Microsoft, Photoshop etc
forget it - they are COPYRIGHTED software, and running a pirated copy simply
for the sake of familiarising yourself is just not acceptable, nor legal.

VIDEO: DVDs are so incredibly reasonable in terms of pricing. I'm
against
pirating DVDs, but I do feel it's ok to use a DVD that you've purchased
for
personal use. This would include making a back up, making a version that
strips out forced trailers and commercials, or using the content for
personal use...such as making a CD of some of the audio or making a game
for
your children based on the video/art elements.

Wrong. This is why they're on sale on the first place. Want a backup? Fine,
then get TWO copies, and use ONE as a working copy, and keep the other in a
safe place. Why bother making a version to cut the trailers and commercials?
The button which is on every remote is akin to "Track select
forward/reverse". Use it.

Well you said "media" instead of "movie"...as I mentioned above, I *want*
the recording industry to be destroyed.

You do huh? Okay, think about this then. You seem to love every sense of
piracy.

Person A buys for example's sake, a Billy Joel album on CD. Person B gets
this album, makes a copy and gives it to a mate, who in turn makes a copy
for his, and so on and so on. These people who have the copies don't go out
and buy the CD as they have a pirate copy. Sales fall, artist eventually
decides to not make any more music, and then the pirates also lose out
because there is no raw material for them to copy from, ensuring no material
is available anymore. You want this to happen to *everyone*? I doubt it.

2) Using copy-protection that only annoys consumers, but has no affect
whatsoever on professional pirates.

Using copy-protection is SUPPOSED to have an effect on potential,
professional pirates. Period.

This is great as long as prices remain low and titles remain available.

...and they will remain high for as long as people break copy protection
systems and distribute pirated versions of the material. Think!

I'm currently working full time in the software industry, but I often work
in the film, tv, radio or music industries.

I bet they'd love to hear what you've just spat out for piracy.


Marcus

You need to get some software called "DVD X Copy"
Then when you get your own copy, be sure to convert the movie to SVCD
and post it in the DVD2SVCD newsgroup to we can also have a copy.
Forget Marcus, Dark Helmet and the other anti-piracy homos. Let them
sit at home and stress out about piracy going on that they can't
control.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:54:37 -0500, "Erich J. Schultheis"
wrote:

I rented some movies from Blockbuster the other day and tried to burn them to a DVD-R and my DVD recorder said "Can Not Copy".
The same thing happens when I borrow DVDs from friends and when I try to copy my DVD disc for friends.
I can burn movies from digital cable and off the antenna just fine.
Is the DVD too high a resolution for my DVD recorder or do I have a bad cable from my DVD player which is preventing me from recording to DVD?

why pay when you can do it free: dvdshrink.org


On Mon, 19 Jan 2004 01:53:43 GMT, Cornholio
wrote:

You need to get some software called "DVD X Copy"
Then when you get your own copy, be sure to convert the movie to SVCD
and post it in the DVD2SVCD newsgroup to we can also have a copy.
Forget Marcus, Dark Helmet and the other anti-piracy homos. Let them
sit at home and stress out about piracy going on that they can't
control.

On Fri, 2 Jan 2004 07:54:37 -0500, "Erich J. Schultheis"
wrote:

I rented some movies from Blockbuster the other day and tried to burn them to a DVD-R and my DVD recorder said "Can Not Copy".
The same thing happens when I borrow DVDs from friends and when I try to copy my DVD disc for friends.
I can burn movies from digital cable and off the antenna just fine.
Is the DVD too high a resolution for my DVD recorder or do I have a bad cable from my DVD player which is preventing me from recording to DVD?