As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

This says it all right here. In the Past there were more Highly skilled
Technicians around. So the Mfr's could rely on the Job Getting done in a
manner
that met both the Consumer and them in a sufficient way. Now as you say,
there are alot of "shoddy" Techs around who try and cut corners by replacing
the parts With cheaper Generic Subs to help keep his profits up, and cust
costs low....it dont work and Mfr's take the heat in the End. Another
example is causing more problems with the Set than was originally present,
due to improper or NO Training - and the Solution is sending the board to a
board Rebuilder, or Telling the Customer its not repairable, when it really
is, and its their Fault its alot of work to repair.

The problem with alot of the Mfr's is they dont Research the Service Center
at all too much, or ask for references of past Customers who used them for
repairs.
Some of them will give you a Cert as long as you pay for the Service Manual
Subscriptions, figuring if they have the money for that, then they must be
making good money, and welcome them into the Family.

At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

I think with all the talk and evidence of this topic lately and from
talking to our best and longest fully equiped and up to date repair shop
in town .

It will not be worth keeping a business in a building with overhead open
for the long haul anymore . Parts not available or the phone numbers for
help never have a human being on the other end and strictly board
replacement construction at high part costs .

Better off finding a new job .

I think times are changing and the business is changing and there will
continue to be a shakeout in the service industry that affects the small,
one man shops mostly. It is tougher to make a profit but as more shops
leave the market, those who are shifting with the times and recognizing
where the profits are will continue to be overwhelmed with work. The big
problem for most shops that I talk to who remain is finding good techs who
can solve problems and are able to keep up with the technology. A lot of
"old school" techs who lament the "good old days" are not effective and very
few people are being trained into the field.

I have all the work that I can handle and am having to train a young tech
with basic electronics education how to understand all the current
technology and how to make good judgements about how to proceed (or not)
with repairs. The art of deciding where to put your time is as important as
technical ability these days.

I spend at least an hour of my day doing research and not "on the bench".
Being skilled in finding the right info is another important factor to stay
in business today. The field of TV service is so varied and the sources of
information so varied that one has to be able to negotiate the internet and
various software systems as well as a schematic.

The business requires adaptation and constant changes of pace and priority.
The fit will survive and thrive. The ones who bitch and moan about the way
it used to be will be history. It is a business and the gravy is hard to
find, for sure. But you can make a living at it if you are good. I have no
doubt that I could go to any decent sized market and have a job right away
because I know how to repair profitably. But then, so could a good
blacksmith who understood the market, I suppose.

Leonard Caillouet

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

"Leonard Caillouet" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Dec 03 06:50:00)
--- on the heady topic of " Is TV Service the Blacksmith of the 21 Century"

LC From: "Leonard Caillouet"
LC I have no doubt that I could go to any decent sized
LC market and have a job right away because I know how to repair
LC profitably. But then, so could a good blacksmith who understood the
LC market, I suppose.
LC Leonard Caillouet

There are still blacksmiths who make a living at it these days.

.... You may be a tech if you're entertained by a 6-pack and sparking HV.

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years ago to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it longer and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips. While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same problem as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment. When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or 70K. Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross

In article , Asimov
wrote:

"Leonard Caillouet" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Dec 03 06:50:00)
--- on the heady topic of " Is TV Service the Blacksmith of the 21
Century"

LC From: "Leonard Caillouet"
LC I have no doubt that I could go to any decent sized
LC market and have a job right away because I know how to repair
LC profitably. But then, so could a good blacksmith who understood the
LC market, I suppose.
LC Leonard Caillouet

There are still blacksmiths who make a living at it these days.

... You may be a tech if you're entertained by a 6-pack and sparking HV.

I work in industrial circuit repair and delve into domestic circuit
repair only as a side line. I cannot make a reasonable profit repairing
domestic equipment i.e. TV, Video etc because I have to spend too much
time finding the info I need, but maybe this is because it is not my
full time business. In the industrial repair market margins are much
higher as replacement board costs are so much higher (often for much
less complicated circuits).

IMHO anyone who is competent as a TV engineer can easily move on to
more profitable industrial repair. But you have to be willing to make a
digression from what you know to what you may not.

If you are prepared to see a circuit as just a circuit no matter what
the end product is then you will survive.

If you can see past the fact that that 10 year old CNC controller is a
piece of industrial equipment and realise that it is just a circuit
that has been used for 10 years and probably needs the caps changing
then you will survive.

If you give me an inverter, a PLC, an industrial monitor and 3 TV's
with unknown (to me) chassis, I can give you the inverter, PLC and
industrial monitor back, repaired within 2 days (most of the time
waiting for replacment components) but you may have to wait a little
longer for the TV's

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article , Asimov
wrote:

"Leonard Caillouet" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Dec 03 06:50:00)
--- on the heady topic of " Is TV Service the Blacksmith of the 21
Century"

LC From: "Leonard Caillouet"
LC I have no doubt that I could go to any decent sized
LC market and have a job right away because I know how to repair
LC profitably. But then, so could a good blacksmith who understood
the
LC market, I suppose.
LC Leonard Caillouet

There are still blacksmiths who make a living at it these days.

... You may be a tech if you're entertained by a 6-pack and sparking HV.

I work in industrial circuit repair and delve into domestic circuit
repair only as a side line. I cannot make a reasonable profit repairing
domestic equipment i.e. TV, Video etc because I have to spend too much
time finding the info I need, but maybe this is because it is not my
full time business. In the industrial repair market margins are much
higher as replacement board costs are so much higher (often for much
less complicated circuits).

IMHO anyone who is competent as a TV engineer can easily move on to
more profitable industrial repair. But you have to be willing to make a
digression from what you know to what you may not.

If you are prepared to see a circuit as just a circuit no matter what
the end product is then you will survive.

If you can see past the fact that that 10 year old CNC controller is a
piece of industrial equipment and realise that it is just a circuit
that has been used for 10 years and probably needs the caps changing
then you will survive.

If you give me an inverter, a PLC, an industrial monitor and 3 TV's
with unknown (to me) chassis, I can give you the inverter, PLC and
industrial monitor back, repaired within 2 days (most of the time
waiting for replacment components) but you may have to wait a little
longer for the TV's
Hi there, what type of CNC's did you work on?
I found the same thing as you have.....Happy New Year, Ross

"Ross Mac" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years ago
to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it longer
and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips.
While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same problem
as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment. When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or 70K.
Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many
states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a
pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things
don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


That would be good career move not could...excuse the grammer!

In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article , Asimov
wrote:

"Leonard Caillouet" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Dec 03 06:50:00)
--- on the heady topic of " Is TV Service the Blacksmith of the 21
Century"

LC From: "Leonard Caillouet"
LC I have no doubt that I could go to any decent sized
LC market and have a job right away because I know how to repair
LC profitably. But then, so could a good blacksmith who understood
the
LC market, I suppose.
LC Leonard Caillouet

There are still blacksmiths who make a living at it these days.

... You may be a tech if you're entertained by a 6-pack and sparking HV.

I work in industrial circuit repair and delve into domestic circuit
repair only as a side line. I cannot make a reasonable profit repairing
domestic equipment i.e. TV, Video etc because I have to spend too much
time finding the info I need, but maybe this is because it is not my
full time business. In the industrial repair market margins are much
higher as replacement board costs are so much higher (often for much
less complicated circuits).

IMHO anyone who is competent as a TV engineer can easily move on to
more profitable industrial repair. But you have to be willing to make a
digression from what you know to what you may not.

If you are prepared to see a circuit as just a circuit no matter what
the end product is then you will survive.

If you can see past the fact that that 10 year old CNC controller is a
piece of industrial equipment and realise that it is just a circuit
that has been used for 10 years and probably needs the caps changing
then you will survive.

If you give me an inverter, a PLC, an industrial monitor and 3 TV's
with unknown (to me) chassis, I can give you the inverter, PLC and
industrial monitor back, repaired within 2 days (most of the time
waiting for replacment components) but you may have to wait a little
longer for the TV's
Hi there, what type of CNC's did you work on?
I found the same thing as you have.....Happy New Year, Ross


I don't really mind what type of CNC although I have had enough FANUC's
in to have time to build a test rig so I can run them through a few
tests before returning them. Oh and Happy New Year Ross

In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"Ross Mac" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years ago
to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it longer
and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips.
While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same problem
as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment. When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or 70K.
Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many
states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a
pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things
don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


That would be good career move not could...excuse the grammer!


Hey Ross,

Any vacancies? I could do with a move to the States. What's the going
rate now? Still 50K?

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"Ross Mac" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand
or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers
to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train
the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us
as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a
thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now
take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than
to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years
ago
to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it
longer
and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips.
While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same
problem
as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of
board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment.
When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob
employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he
would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or
70K.
Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many
states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the
the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a
pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things
don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination
and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


That would be good career move not could...excuse the grammer!


Hey Ross,

Any vacancies? I could do with a move to the States. What's the going
rate now? Still 50K?
Good news and bad news.....They hire in the 60K range....now the bad
news....I made enough money in options and salary to retire....Best of
luck....Ross

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article , Asimov
wrote:

"Leonard Caillouet" bravely wrote to "All" (27 Dec 03 06:50:00)
--- on the heady topic of " Is TV Service the Blacksmith of the
21
Century"

LC From: "Leonard Caillouet"
LC I have no doubt that I could go to any decent sized
LC market and have a job right away because I know how to repair
LC profitably. But then, so could a good blacksmith who
understood
the
LC market, I suppose.
LC Leonard Caillouet

There are still blacksmiths who make a living at it these days.

... You may be a tech if you're entertained by a 6-pack and sparking
HV.

I work in industrial circuit repair and delve into domestic circuit
repair only as a side line. I cannot make a reasonable profit
repairing
domestic equipment i.e. TV, Video etc because I have to spend too much
time finding the info I need, but maybe this is because it is not my
full time business. In the industrial repair market margins are much
higher as replacement board costs are so much higher (often for much
less complicated circuits).

IMHO anyone who is competent as a TV engineer can easily move on to
more profitable industrial repair. But you have to be willing to make
a
digression from what you know to what you may not.

If you are prepared to see a circuit as just a circuit no matter what
the end product is then you will survive.

If you can see past the fact that that 10 year old CNC controller is a
piece of industrial equipment and realise that it is just a circuit
that has been used for 10 years and probably needs the caps changing
then you will survive.

If you give me an inverter, a PLC, an industrial monitor and 3 TV's
with unknown (to me) chassis, I can give you the inverter, PLC and
industrial monitor back, repaired within 2 days (most of the time
waiting for replacment components) but you may have to wait a little
longer for the TV's
Hi there, what type of CNC's did you work on?
I found the same thing as you have.....Happy New Year, Ross


I don't really mind what type of CNC although I have had enough FANUC's
in to have time to build a test rig so I can run them through a few
tests before returning them. Oh and Happy New Year Ross
There are a lot of those FANUC's out there....I was into the PC board
automation stuff....but they are quite a bit the same....Have a great New
Years across the pond!
.....Ross

In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"5HAD0W" wrote in message ...
In article
, Ross
Mac wrote:

"Ross Mac" wrote in message
...

"Jim" wrote in message
...
As we all know consumer technology is in a state of flux.

What will it take to continue to earn a living in the consumer
electronic service world?

Can independent service companies stay current with the technology?
Since most manufacturers are treating their equipment as trade
secrets, not supplying support to independents and barely supporting
their warranty service companies. How can this industry survive?

Samsung is offering $125 labor for in home service on plasmas. NEC,
InFocus and others refuse to supply literature or parts to anyone
other than an very small list of selected servicers. The argument is
that they are protecting their customers from shoddy service. The
implication is we are all to stupid or under-trained to understand
or
service their equipment. Isn't this restraint of trade?

As long as the equipment can be serviced to the component level I
contend that it is unreasonable and criminal for the manufacturers
to
insist on thousands of dollars for replacement boards.

Manufacturers are DUMPING highly complex equipment on the American
market at or below cost. Are the manufacturers attempting to train
the
population to expect unreasonably cheap products? To what end?

When there are no longer qualified servicers will the prices climb
back to reasonable levels?

The manufacturers have attempted to control the consumer service
industry since the beginning. At first they catered to us. Bought us
lunch and introduced us to the latest technologies. They treated us
as
an integral part of their support chain. Now they treat us as a
thing
to be shunned. We are a impediment to their sales.

What do you think?

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now
take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than
to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years
ago
to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it
longer
and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips.
While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same
problem
as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of
board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment.
When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob
employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he
would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or
70K.
Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many
states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the
the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a
pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things
don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination
and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


That would be good career move not could...excuse the grammer!


Hey Ross,

Any vacancies? I could do with a move to the States. What's the going
rate now? Still 50K?
Good news and bad news.....They hire in the 60K range....now the bad
news....I made enough money in options and salary to retire....Best of
luck....Ross


LOL Wrong place wrong time as usual

You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years ago to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it longer and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips. While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same problem as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment. When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or 70K. Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


I believe that the consumer service side has been one of the last
vestiges of component level troubleshooting. The industry has tried to
move everyone to "Black Box" level service as far back as the 60's.
But when they gave us boards, we fixed the boards. That wasn't what
they had in mind.

The technical aptitude needed to earn a decent living has always been
quite high. As manufacturers have gone from tube to board to the
unitized chassis back to board and so on it has been incumbent on all
techs to stay abreast of the changes and adapt accordingly.

Any "schmo" could get a job as a tube/board jockey at the local shop
or as an outside guy installing antennas and holding old lady's hands.
But to earn a good living took a combination of experience, ongoing
education and business sense. Good, production minded, bench techs are
hard to come by.

I have been in the service industry for 25 years and have another 20
to go, I was raised in a TV shop. I feel as though the manufacturers
have locked me out of the schoolhouse.

As it has been said here, circuits are circuits. Thanks for the heads
up on the industrial side. I was blind to that possibility.

"Giluxis" wrote in message
...
You are right here Jim at some level. It has been slowly happening for
years. A lot of the consumer items we used to take to the shop we now
take
to the dump. It became cheaper to head for Costco or Circuit City than to
the repair shop. It was the reason that I made the decision 25 years ago
to
get into industrial automation electronics. They tend to keep it longer
and
continue to repair them. Most of the vendors have help lines and full
schematic packages. Some of them will even give you a few phone tips.
While
even that side of the industry is suffering from some of the same problem
as
the consumer side it is much less pronounced. We used to do a lot of
board
level work, but now they toss em and replace em on some equipment. When
things were really poppin back in 98' and 99' I could easily rob
employees
from consumer electronics because they didn't make as much money (most
anyway!). I could offer a guy, back then, 40 to 50K a year and he would
jump. If I hired from withing the industry it would have been 60 or 70K.
Of
course these are inflated California wages and not the norm in many
states!
Also, the consumer guys understood the electronics where many of the the
industrial guys were module jockeys with barely the ability to twist a
pot!
You might find that it would be a could career move for you if things
don't
pan out for you. The best techs I ever hired were from the consumer
electronics business. A lot of this stuff takes a lot of determination
and
experience to repair!........Best of Luck, Ross


I believe that the consumer service side has been one of the last
vestiges of component level troubleshooting. The industry has tried to
move everyone to "Black Box" level service as far back as the 60's.
But when they gave us boards, we fixed the boards. That wasn't what
they had in mind.

The technical aptitude needed to earn a decent living has always been
quite high. As manufacturers have gone from tube to board to the
unitized chassis back to board and so on it has been incumbent on all
techs to stay abreast of the changes and adapt accordingly.

Any "schmo" could get a job as a tube/board jockey at the local shop
or as an outside guy installing antennas and holding old lady's hands.
But to earn a good living took a combination of experience, ongoing
education and business sense. Good, production minded, bench techs are
hard to come by.

I have been in the service industry for 25 years and have another 20
to go, I was raised in a TV shop. I feel as though the manufacturers
have locked me out of the schoolhouse.

As it has been said here, circuits are circuits. Thanks for the heads
up on the industrial side. I was blind to that possibility.

Well said ! I have always been impressed with the caliber of the bench level
techs in the consumer electronics industry. I always wondered why they
stayed there because they could OWN the industrial side anytime they wanted
to! Best of luck to you!....Ross