Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems.

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Default Pioneer Pro DJ unit ...

Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer DDJ-SZ ?
Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer route. It looks
as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the XLR balanced output
on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found a surface mount
something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There is signal one side,
but not the other. They are designated P701 on one channel, and P702 on the
other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items, I'm guessing that to be
"Protector", except it doesn't look like the typical surface mount fuses
that Pioneer use in their other DJ units, which are usually very low profile
and have a letter on the top of them to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is "10".
But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but I would
then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything in
series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output. Interestingly
though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I think it was, and it
shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a rectangular box 'protector'
symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again ... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa

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Electrotanya has the DDJ-SX manual. Might be close enough, just a slightly different feature set.
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"Arfa Daily" wrote in message ...

Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer DDJ-SZ ?
Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer route. It looks
as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the XLR balanced output
on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found a surface mount
something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There is signal one side,
but not the other. They are designated P701 on one channel, and P702 on the
other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items, I'm guessing that to be
"Protector", except it doesn't look like the typical surface mount fuses
that Pioneer use in their other DJ units, which are usually very low profile
and have a letter on the top of them to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is "10".
But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but I would
then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything in
series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output. Interestingly
though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I think it was, and it
shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a rectangular box 'protector'
symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again ... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa





Only thing I can think of is to protect against plugging the outputs into an
XLR socket meant to drive a gooseneck lamp like this:

http://www.esldj.co.uk/eurolite-flex...3b-12531-p.asp


Gareth.

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On 12/05/2015 18:33, Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer
DDJ-SZ ? Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer
route. It looks as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the
XLR balanced output on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found
a surface mount something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There
is signal one side, but not the other. They are designated P701 on one
channel, and P702 on the other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items,
I'm guessing that to be "Protector", except it doesn't look like the
typical surface mount fuses that Pioneer use in their other DJ units,
which are usually very low profile and have a letter on the top of them
to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is
"10". But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but
I would then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything
in series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output.
Interestingly though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I
think it was, and it shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a
rectangular box 'protector' symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again
... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa


So is there "half" a signal on one pin and its other " half" present
prior to the SM blob?
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Only thing I can think of is to protect against plugging the outputs into
an XLR socket meant to drive a gooseneck lamp like this:

http://www.esldj.co.uk/eurolite-flex...3b-12531-p.asp


Gareth.


It's a thought, I suppose. I could imagine something like that if it was a
cheapo Maplin unit for wannabe bedroom work, but this unit is a top of the
range dog's ******** professional unit, and if you've got the money to buy
one, I guess you are going to be pro enough to have the savvy to know what a
balanced output is,

One thing that I have to say though, is that it is the worst designed piece
of gear, from a repair point of view, that Pioneer have ever had in their
ranges of pro grade equipment. For instance, to get into it, you remove the
whole bottom tray - a bit like the old music centre (bench) audio systems.
Yes, that's good as it gives access to everything in there. Except they've
screwed the power supply into that tray, so if you want to run it opened up,
you've got to leave the bottom attached and floating round the bench. So
unscrew the PSU, right ? Again, yes. Three of the screws you can get to. But
then there's others that you can't without dismantling all the cover off the
PSU ...

The board that the output sockets are on, is secured to a metal frame. You
can get at the screws through the board into the frame, but then the sockets
themselves are screwed to the frame. And can you get to those screws ? No,
because they're behind the rear plastic panel, which is part of the whole
upper case moulding. So take the board out complete with the frame, yes ?
Er, no. The frame goes right across the back of the unit, and under the main
PCB, which is also partially screwed to it. A number of the screws that
secure the frame to the upper case, are under that main board where you
can't get to them.

All of the CDJ and DJM series units have been really thoughtfully put
together to ease dismantling and repair, obviously with cutting down repair
time to a minimum being in mind, as it is pro gear that you want in service
earning you money if you are the owner. In contrast, the construction of
this unit is totally thoughtless in that regard.

Arfa



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"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 18:33, Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer
DDJ-SZ ? Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer
route. It looks as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the
XLR balanced output on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found
a surface mount something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There
is signal one side, but not the other. They are designated P701 on one
channel, and P702 on the other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items,
I'm guessing that to be "Protector", except it doesn't look like the
typical surface mount fuses that Pioneer use in their other DJ units,
which are usually very low profile and have a letter on the top of them
to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is
"10". But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but
I would then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything
in series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output.
Interestingly though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I
think it was, and it shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a
rectangular box 'protector' symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again
... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa


So is there "half" a signal on one pin and its other " half" present prior
to the SM blob?


Yes, exactly that. One pin of the XLR has signal to deck, the other doesn't.
Follow the print on the 'dead' pin back, and it goes to the blob. Other side
of the blob, where protection diodes half the size of an ant's body are
fitted, there is full signal, which leads me to believe that the blob is
either an o/c fuse or inductor

Arfa

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"One thing that I have to say though, is that it is the worst designed piece
of gear, from a repair point of view, that Pioneer have ever had in their
ranges of pro grade equipment."


Try one of their rear projection TVs. A late one like an HD. Actually not pro, but it'll aggravate the **** outta you.
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"Follow the print on the 'dead' pin back, and it goes to the blob. Other side
of the blob, where protection diodes half the size of an ant's body are
fitted, there is full signal,"


Fukum. They took their name off it when they did not give you a print.

Measure hat you can of the blob thart still is good and duplicate it. Maybe a cap, maybe a resistor. I bet a hundred ohm resistor will work just fine, just use like a little eentsy 1/16th watt job or something. Maybe 47 ohm. Or, a cap witth a 47 ohm. Depends on what you read on the good one. Remeber that is balanced, both sides are the same.

Plus the fact I would bet they are just some low value low wattage resistors. If you read DC, put in a cap. Getting held up by **** like this is bull****.
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Arfa Daily wrote:


It looks as though the owner has managed to ****
one leg of the XLR balanced output on both channels.



** The owner has actually noticed and complained about this or you just picked it up while testing ?

FYI: Many "balanced" XLR outputs only drive one line while the other has a resistor to ground ( impedance balanced ) OR is actually in input that acts to cancel ground loop hum - aka "ground cancelling" used by many Soundcraft desks.

http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/b...d/balanced.htm

In both the above cases, the max signal level is half that of a traditionally balanced output.


..... Phil
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On 13/05/2015 01:08, Arfa Daily wrote:


"N_Cook" wrote in message
...
On 12/05/2015 18:33, Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer
DDJ-SZ ? Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer
route. It looks as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the
XLR balanced output on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found
a surface mount something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There
is signal one side, but not the other. They are designated P701 on one
channel, and P702 on the other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items,
I'm guessing that to be "Protector", except it doesn't look like the
typical surface mount fuses that Pioneer use in their other DJ units,
which are usually very low profile and have a letter on the top of them
to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is
"10". But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but
I would then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything
in series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output.
Interestingly though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I
think it was, and it shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a
rectangular box 'protector' symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again
... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa


So is there "half" a signal on one pin and its other " half" present
prior to the SM blob?


Yes, exactly that. One pin of the XLR has signal to deck, the other
doesn't. Follow the print on the 'dead' pin back, and it goes to the
blob. Other side of the blob, where protection diodes half the size of
an ant's body are fitted, there is full signal, which leads me to
believe that the blob is either an o/c fuse or inductor

Arfa


The only tiny SM inductors I've ever butchered into have had video-head
scale coils of wire inside, do modern SM inductors use some more hi-tec
wire-free construction?
Remove and break into one of them


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WTF ? That did not make sense.
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"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:


It looks as though the owner has managed to ****
one leg of the XLR balanced output on both channels.



** The owner has actually noticed and complained about this or you just
picked it up while testing ?



This is the main complaint it turned up for - "output from XLR balanced
sockets poor and distorted, phonos ok" . The owner is in some way
'connected' to the dealer that it has come to me from, and I've been told
that it is a "cash job", so probably, the item has been borrowed and
damaged, or someone else has 'had a go' at another problem, and done this
damage. There seems to be a bit of an 'air of secrecy' about it, so I doubt
that I'm ever going to be told the truth. Some of the sales people at this
outfit fancy themselves as being handy with a screwdriver ...

There was a 'secondary' fault / request with it, which was could I replace
the PLAY/PAUSE and CUE buttons on both sides. It is very common for these to
go intermittent or to collapse on all the Pioneer mixers and players,
because they get 'hammered' continuously as part of the way these systems
are used. However, in this case, I can't immediately find any problem with
them. They all four 'feel' ok, and seem to work. The unit is actually only
just over a year old, so a bit early for failure really. I'll change them
anyway while its apart.


FYI: Many "balanced" XLR outputs only drive one line while the other has a
resistor to ground ( impedance balanced ) OR is actually in input that
acts to cancel ground loop hum - aka "ground cancelling" used by many
Soundcraft desks.



I've seen this sort of thing going on, but in this case, it does appear to
be a proper balanced output with both legs being driven - allbeit with one
being via this whatever-it-is surface mount blob. Looking at schematics for
some of Pioneer's other Pro DJ mixers and CD units, they all appear to use a
proper balanced driver stage prior to the XLR outputs, so this one will
almost certainly be the same, I would think


http://www.douglas-self.com/ampins/b...d/balanced.htm

In both the above cases, the max signal level is half that of a
traditionally balanced output.


Yes

Arfa


.... Phil

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Arfa Daily wrote:

"Phil Allison"



** The owner has actually noticed and complained about this or you just
picked it up while testing ?



This is the main complaint it turned up for - "output from XLR balanced
sockets poor and distorted, phonos ok" . The owner is in some way
'connected' to the dealer that it has come to me from, and I've been told
that it is a "cash job", so probably, the item has been borrowed and
damaged, or someone else has 'had a go' at another problem, and done this
damage. There seems to be a bit of an 'air of secrecy' about it, so I doubt
that I'm ever going to be told the truth.


** You have clear evidence of damage, likely a speaker cable was plugged into each of the XLRs. I have seen a couple of examples where the same error did extensive damage to a Pioneer DJ mixer and one where a Mackie 1604 desk became a complete write off after a Marshall 100W valve head was plugged directly into a line input. That desk was on loan at the time too.



FYI: Many "balanced" XLR outputs only drive one line while the other has a
resistor to ground ( impedance balanced ) OR is actually in input that
acts to cancel ground loop hum - aka "ground cancelling" used by many
Soundcraft desks.



I've seen this sort of thing going on, but in this case, it does appear to
be a proper balanced output with both legs being driven - allbeit with one
being via this whatever-it-is surface mount blob.


** Odd that it's only one of them - bit like locking the front door at night but leaving the back one open. IMO, the "blob" is most likely a fusible resistor of about 100 ohms.

BTW: I only mentioned the single driven line type of balanced output to explain my question about the owner noticing the difference.



..... Phil




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"Arfa Daily" wrote in message
...
Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer DDJ-SZ
? Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer route. It
looks as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the XLR balanced
output on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found a surface mount
something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There is signal one
side, but not the other. They are designated P701 on one channel, and P702
on the other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items, I'm guessing that to
be "Protector", except it doesn't look like the typical surface mount
fuses that Pioneer use in their other DJ units, which are usually very low
profile and have a letter on the top of them to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is "10".
But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but I would
then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything in
series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output.
Interestingly though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I
think it was, and it shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a
rectangular box 'protector' symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again ...
Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa



It is a fuse - the part number is AEK-1073, AEK being a Pioneer prefix for
fuses.

The rating is 1 amp.

The s/m is 206 pages, but I will send it to you in RAR chunks.

mz

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"Phil Allison" wrote in message
...
Arfa Daily wrote:

"Phil Allison"



** The owner has actually noticed and complained about this or you just
picked it up while testing ?



This is the main complaint it turned up for - "output from XLR balanced
sockets poor and distorted, phonos ok" . The owner is in some way
'connected' to the dealer that it has come to me from, and I've been told
that it is a "cash job", so probably, the item has been borrowed and
damaged, or someone else has 'had a go' at another problem, and done this
damage. There seems to be a bit of an 'air of secrecy' about it, so I
doubt
that I'm ever going to be told the truth.


** You have clear evidence of damage, likely a speaker cable was plugged
into each of the XLRs. I have seen a couple of examples where the same
error did extensive damage to a Pioneer DJ mixer and one where a Mackie
1604 desk became a complete write off after a Marshall 100W valve head was
plugged directly into a line input. That desk was on loan at the time too.



FYI: Many "balanced" XLR outputs only drive one line while the other
has a
resistor to ground ( impedance balanced ) OR is actually in input that
acts to cancel ground loop hum - aka "ground cancelling" used by many
Soundcraft desks.



I've seen this sort of thing going on, but in this case, it does appear
to
be a proper balanced output with both legs being driven - allbeit with
one
being via this whatever-it-is surface mount blob.


** Odd that it's only one of them - bit like locking the front door at
night but leaving the back one open. IMO, the "blob" is most likely a
fusible resistor of about 100 ohms.

BTW: I only mentioned the single driven line type of balanced output to
explain my question about the owner noticing the difference.



Yeah, all noted Phil. It is definitely odd only having one blob. It might
make a bit more sense if it was in the ground leg, but it's not. It's in
either hot or cold - can't remember which without checking. As you say,
locking the front door and leaving the back open.

Looking at the DJM 800, there's a 500 mA fuse shown in the same position.
This morning, we have tried again to get service info from Pioneer. It has
all changed recently, and they have reset all of the user names and
passwords for access to the sites. The same details used to work for the
main sales / spares account as for the service login. The new details that
they have issued to this sales outfit no longer access the service site.
Looks like they might be restricting it to *only* agents that are approved
for service as well as sales.

I have hung a couple of 315 mA sm fuses in this morning and it all now works
ok. Having spoken to the guy that sent it in, he thinks that he is happy to
call this a 'repair' and have it back like that. I would have liked to have
known what the devices actually were, but at the end of the day, you have to
draw the line somewhere if you can't get the information, and I think that
if the items are indeed some form of protector, I am happy to send it back
with low value fuses in it.

Arfa

.... Phil







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It is a fuse - the part number is AEK-1073, AEK being a Pioneer prefix for
fuses.

The rating is 1 amp.

The s/m is 206 pages, but I will send it to you in RAR chunks.

mz


Thanks Mark. You are, as ever, a star !

Arfa

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Arfa Daily wrote:



** Odd that it's only one of them - bit like locking the front door at
night but leaving the back one open. IMO, the "blob" is most likely a
fusible resistor of about 100 ohms.

BTW: I only mentioned the single driven line type of balanced output to
explain my question about the owner noticing the difference.



Yeah, all noted Phil. It is definitely odd only having one blob. It might
make a bit more sense if it was in the ground leg, but it's not. It's in
either hot or cold - can't remember which without checking. As you say,
locking the front door and leaving the back open.


** XLR pin 2 is the standard for the hot connection on a speaker lead so I expect that is where Pioneer has it has installed.

Fusing the ground connection is bad for electrical safety.

The metalwork of a class 2 mixer normally becomes grounded when plugged into an amplifier or powered speaker - making it safe to touch even if something plugged into one of the inputs has a fault that tries to make it live.



.... Phil

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On Tuesday, May 12, 2015 at 1:33:59 PM UTC-4, Arfa Daily wrote:
Don't suppose anyone happens to have a service manual for a Pioneer DDJ-SZ ?
Having some difficulty getting one, even through the Pioneer route. It looks
as though the owner has managed to **** one leg of the XLR balanced output
on both channels. Once I had got inside it, I found a surface mount
something in series with the dead leg on each XLR. There is signal one side,
but not the other. They are designated P701 on one channel, and P702 on the
other, so in keeping with other Pioneer items, I'm guessing that to be
"Protector", except it doesn't look like the typical surface mount fuses
that Pioneer use in their other DJ units, which are usually very low profile
and have a letter on the top of them to indicate value.

This device is black plastic and about 2 x 2 x 3 mm. Standard sm cap or
resistor connections at each end. Stamped very clearly on the top is "10"..
But 10 what ? Could even be an inductor I guess, 10 uH maybe, but I would
then have expected its designator to be "L" ??

The other thing that puzzles me slightly is why you would have anything in
series with one leg and not the other on a 'balanced' output. Interestingly
though, I had a look at the schematic for the DJM 800 I think it was, and it
shows a 0.5A fuse - proper fuse symbol not a rectangular box 'protector'
symbol - in just one leg of the XLR again ... Thoughts anyone ?

Arfa


The fuse is to protect the output stage from damage caused by DC voltage coming into the output (most commonly when someone plugs into a mixer with Phantom power [+48V] engaged). It happen\s more than you think. I'm staring at (2) DJM-S9's that took full voltage and blew the fuses.
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