Went to try to fix my daughters ASUS laptop and made it much worse
She did not have her power supply so I used mine - I have an ASUS netbook. The plug was not the same but the VA are so I rigged up what I thought was the correct one but when I plugged it in it would not light the "PSU connected light". Although the laptop worked, without a charger it was no use.

As it was working before I got my hands on it I assume my connector somehow caused the PSU circuit to blow. The DC Jack goes to a plug on the mobo and I tested it in situ - there was 19v at the mobo socket, so the prob is further down the line.

I had to take the laptop completely apart to get at the mobo components to test points, and cannot easily re-connect everything to test the whole. I stripped it down and sure enough there is a burnt-out component - looks like a SM cap (MLCC) but cannot be 100% certain due to ignorance.

The mobo is an asus k501j

Found the schematic (https://googledrive.com/host/0ByM1EL...ev_1.1_sch.pdf although it is for rev 1.1 and my board is rev 2.1) so have extracted the PSU Section and added it to the photo.

It looks as if the burnt one is an MLCC - a capacitor but, as I am not sure I have got the right schematic and cannot trace the wiring on the board itself (it is too thick) I guess I can only go ahead and replace it and hope for the best.

Can I test the mobo with nothing apart from power or do I need to reassemble? Can I simply remove the component and see if the laptop works without it? There could be a further fault. Presumably I do not need a MLCC - a regular cap would do it provided it is rated at 25v? Thought I could maybe try to find one on an old computer board as it looks like you cannot easily buy just one MLCC.

Hers a photo of the mobo showing the component and the schematic:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3829aba0.png

Here is a bigger pic of just the mobo:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps25b04b6d.jpg

Any help gratefully appreciated.

"Chris from London"


Hers a photo of the mobo showing the component
and the schematic:

http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3829aba0.png


** What I see your arrow pointing at is a burnt looking SMD tantalum cap
(C6802) and immediately to it's left a missing part - Schottky diode
(D6801). The cap further to the left is an MLCC.

With reverse polarity at the DC jack, the diode would heat, melt the solder
and fall off the PCB - then the tantalum cops reverse voltage and
explodes.

I strongly suspect there is other damage too.



..... Phil

On Sun, 19 Jan 2014 16:27:11 -0800 (PST), Chris from London
wrote:

Went to try to fix my daughters ASUS laptop and made it much worse

Welcome to Learn by Destroying(tm).

She did not have her power supply so I used mine - I have an ASUS netbook.
The plug was not the same but the VA are

It's not the power (VA) that needs to be the same. It's the polarity,
voltage, and current rating. The polarity and voltage need to be
exact. The current rating can be higher.

so I rigged up what I thought
was the correct one but when I plugged it in it would not light the
"PSU connected light". Although the laptop worked, without a charger
it was no use.

So, just buy the correct charger and try it.

As it was working before I got my hands on it I assume my connector
somehow caused the PSU circuit to blow. The DC Jack goes to a plug
on the mobo and I tested it in situ - there was 19v at the mobo socket,
so the prob is further down the line.

Offhand, I would guess that you applied reverse power. Please check
and compare the polarity markings on the laptop serial number tag and
the charger.

Here's a photo of the mobo showing the component and the schematic:
http://i989.photobucket.com/albums/a...ps3829aba0.png

I took the liberty of expanding your photo so I could see the
components.
http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

As Phil notes, there could be other damage. I think this is going to
be an uphill battle and a difficult fix. Good luck.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device

A diode is not an active device

It was pretty active there for a second.

In article ,
writes
A diode is not an active device

It was pretty active there for a second.

Heh. Probably sacrificed itself to protect the fuse.

--
(\_/)
(='.'=)
(")_(")

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device.


Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 01/21/2014 03:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device.


Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.



An active device is any type of circuit component with the ability to
electrically control electron flow (electricity controlling
electricity). In order for a circuit to be properly called electronic,
it must contain at least one active device. Components incapable of
controlling current by means of another electrical signal are called
passive devices. Resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and
even diodes are all considered passive devices.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html

"Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out.

Also the tunnel diode.

"dave"

A diode is not an active device.


** Most sources say it is classed as one.

Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.


http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html


** And Wiki says otherwise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_component


Semiconductors and vacuum tubes are automatically "active devices".

So that includes solid state and vacuum diodes too.



..... Phil

"Phil Allison" wrote in message ...

** And Wiki says otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_component

Wikipedia is wrong.

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 17:17:41 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message ...

** And Wiki says otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_component

Wikipedia is wrong.
In 2013 Wikipedia was compared to a major printed encyclopedia (I
don't remember which right now) and the percentage of errors was
pretty much the same for both. This is not to say that the errors were
the same or on the same subject or in any other way related except
that they were errors. The point is that they both contain errors. So
William could indeed be correct when he says that Wikipedia is wrong.
If that is truly the case then I think it would be a good thing if he
corrected the Wikipedia article and used references to back up the
correction. I really appreciate all the time folks have spent, and
continue to spend, on entries to Wikipedia. It is obvious that many
people have spent many hours researching, documenting, and writing for
Wikipedia and all this effort is unpaid. Since I have so far not been
able to contribute any information to Wikipedia my only recourse has
been to contribut cash. I hope William has the time and inclination to
correct the errors he has seen on this subject in Wikipedia.
Eric

---
This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active.
http://www.avast.com

Eric


** **** off - you trolling idiot.

On 01/22/2014 04:25 PM, Phil Allison wrote:
"dave"

A diode is not an active device.


** Most sources say it is classed as one.

Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.


http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html


** And Wiki says otherwise:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_component


Semiconductors and vacuum tubes are automatically "active devices".

So that includes solid state and vacuum diodes too.



.... Phil


Wiki is the style of the reference. It doesn't really speak. Many things
oscillate when excited but they don't control anything. Is a quartz
crystal an active device?

"dave"


**** off - TENTH wit TROLL !!

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014, wrote:

On Wed, 22 Jan 2014 17:17:41 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

"Phil Allison" wrote in message ...

** And Wiki says otherwise:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronic_component

Wikipedia is wrong.
In 2013 Wikipedia was compared to a major printed encyclopedia (I
don't remember which right now) and the percentage of errors was
pretty much the same for both. This is not to say that the errors were
the same or on the same subject or in any other way related except
that they were errors. The point is that they both contain errors. So
William could indeed be correct when he says that Wikipedia is wrong.
If that is truly the case then I think it would be a good thing if he
corrected the Wikipedia article and used references to back up the
correction. I really appreciate all the time folks have spent, and
continue to spend, on entries to Wikipedia. It is obvious that many
people have spent many hours researching, documenting, and writing for
Wikipedia and all this effort is unpaid. Since I have so far not been
able to contribute any information to Wikipedia my only recourse has
been to contribut cash. I hope William has the time and inclination to
correct the errors he has seen on this subject in Wikipedia.
Eric

But wikipedia is for everyone.

The fact that someone doesn't know anything doesn't matter. They read a
book or see a movie, and then start an entry for it. They aren't allowed
to "create the facts" themselves, they have to have references. I've seen
entries that are like short versions of books, people able to point to the
bit in the book, but unable to evaluate the information because they've
not read anything more.

The first time I saw mention of wikipedia, someone had pointed to the
entry for Don Lancaster's TV Typewriter. But for some reason, someone
missed the early details, just had information from the second book (where
he jammed NOPs into a CPU so it would advance the address counter and thus
cycle through memory). But someone didn't know that there was the earlier
method with counters and all that, so they couldn't question what was
missing or wrong. I said "but that's not complete" and detailed why. A
couple of days later, someone had fixed the entry.

Of course, some of the errors come because there's not enough unifying.
My great, great, great grandfather has an entry, it mentions one of the
children being married to another entry, but in that entry for the
husband, it gets the ancestry wrong, and I don't think the husband has a
link to my ancestor. Two entries that have different information should
indicate something is wrong, but if nobody looks at both entries (and they
might not know of the other entry, or the connection) then they'll
never know one has bad information.

Michael

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 03:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device.


Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.



An active device is any type of circuit component with the ability to
electrically control electron flow (electricity controlling
electricity). In order for a circuit to be properly called electronic,
it must contain at least one active device. Components incapable of
controlling current by means of another electrical signal are called
passive devices. Resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and
even diodes are all considered passive devices.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html


How does the Gunn diode oscillate without gain? How does it have
gain, if it isn't an active component?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

dave wrote:

Wiki is the style of the reference. It doesn't really speak. Many things
oscillate when excited but they don't control anything. Is a quartz
crystal an active device?


No. It needs external gain, and an initial shock to start the
oscillation. That is usually supplied by the power up delay as the gain
block starts to function.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 03:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device.


Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.



An active device is any type of circuit component with the ability to
electrically control electron flow (electricity controlling
electricity). In order for a circuit to be properly called electronic,
it must contain at least one active device. Components incapable of
controlling current by means of another electrical signal are called
passive devices. Resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and
even diodes are all considered passive devices.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html


How does the Gunn diode oscillate without gain? How does it have
gain, if it isn't an active component?


It is not a switch or a valve.

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 03:04 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/21/2014 07:24 AM, Mike Tomlinson wrote:
In article , Jeff Liebermann
writes

http://www.learnbydestroying.com/jeffl/crud/asus-k501j.jpg
The "hole" in the burnt out component is characteristic of applying
reverse polarity to an active device such as a diode. I would guess
that the diode exploded, blowing the top off the epoxy package.

The 8-pin IC next to it also looks burnt.

To the OP: forget it, this is not economically repairable. Buy your
daughter a new machine and use the correct charger in future.


A diode is not an active device.


Then explain the Gunn Diode. DC in, RF out. How about LEDs? DC in,
Photons out.



An active device is any type of circuit component with the ability to
electrically control electron flow (electricity controlling
electricity). In order for a circuit to be properly called electronic,
it must contain at least one active device. Components incapable of
controlling current by means of another electrical signal are called
passive devices. Resistors, capacitors, inductors, transformers, and
even diodes are all considered passive devices.

http://www.allaboutcircuits.com/vol_3/chpt_1/2.html


How does the Gunn diode oscillate without gain? How does it have
gain, if it isn't an active component?


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An
active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As
in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what
we are going for.

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014, dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An active
device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As in amplify
or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what we are going for.


I can't keep track of this argument.

But, that piece of quartz, the output will start decaying in volume almost
immediately. It requires an active device to keep that going.

Michael

Michael Black wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014, dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An active
device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As in amplify
or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what we are going for.


I can't keep track of this argument.

But, that piece of quartz, the output will start decaying in volume almost
immediately. It requires an active device to keep that going.


Dave is as clueless as Allison. He would freak if he saw a 'carbon
amplifier' in operation.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How
can a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device.


No, it will crush the quartz, resulting in one spike as it breaks up.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.


Like a 'Carbon Amplifier'?


As in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is
what we are going for.


A rectifier is a switch. Diodes are used as mixers, and the
rectifiers a poorly designed power supply can generate RF that is
coupled into the power line.


Sigh. Small minds like yours will never learn anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunn_diode


The Gunn diode is based on the Gunn effect, and both are named for the
physicist J. B. Gunn who, at IBM in 1962, discovered the effect because
he refused to accept inconsistent experimental results in gallium
arsenide as "noise", and tracked down the cause. Alan Chynoweth, of Bell
Telephone Laboratories, showed in June 1965 that only a
transferred-electron mechanism could explain the experimental
results.[3] The interpretation refers to the Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum
theory.

The Gunn effect, and its relation to the Watkins-Ridley-Hilsum effect
entered the monograph literature in the early 1970s, e.g. in books on
transferred electron devices[4] and, more recently on nonlinear wave
methods for charge transport.[5] Several other books that provided the
same coverage were published in the intervening years, and can be found
by searching library and bookseller catalogues on Gunn effect.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaki_diode AKA Tunnel diode was invented
in 1958. It was used as a 14 GHz amplifier in Intelsat V satellite
receiver.


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

dave wrote:
On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An
active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As
in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what
we are going for.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

A relay is not an *electronics* device - it is an electro mechanical one
that predates "electronics" by about 100 years.

The invention of the vacuum tube triode kicked it off but the word
"electronics" was not applied until the late 1940s - to cover the fields of
radio, radar, computers and TV.

It had a previous life as the name of a branch of physics

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Electronics


FYI: if yo want to buy a diode, I suggest you do not waste time looking it
up in an electronics catalogue under the heading of "passive components".


..... Phil

There ya go. Forget wiki, Webster's and all that, ask Digikey !

** Get cancer and die you criminal ****ing nut case.

On 01/24/2014 03:09 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

Michael Black wrote:

On Fri, 24 Jan 2014, dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An active
device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As in amplify
or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what we are going for.


I can't keep track of this argument.

But, that piece of quartz, the output will start decaying in volume almost
immediately. It requires an active device to keep that going.


Dave is as clueless as Allison. He would freak if he saw a 'carbon
amplifier' in operation.


I will cop to "clueless". That's why I look stuff up first. A tube,or a
transistor (any gated device really) is an active device. They control
one current with another. They amplify. They switch. They invert
polarity sometimes.

On 01/24/2014 03:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How
can a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device.


No, it will crush the quartz, resulting in one spike as it breaks up.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.


Like a 'Carbon Amplifier'?


As in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is
what we are going for.


A rectifier is a switch. Diodes are used as mixers, and the
rectifiers a poorly designed power supply can generate RF that is
coupled into the power line.


Sigh. Small minds like yours will never learn anything.


Oscillators do not use one signal to control another. A Gunn diode is a
lot like a neon lamp meets quartz crystal. Not a switch. Not an amplifier.

It's a relatively stupid minor point. I looked it up. I am not going to
be convinced with silliness like "carbon amplifiers".

On 01/25/2014 01:21 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
dave wrote:
On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An
active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As
in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what
we are going for.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


A relay is a solenoid (no) and a switch (no).

dave wrote:

On 01/24/2014 03:22 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How
can a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device.


No, it will crush the quartz, resulting in one spike as it breaks up.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.


Like a 'Carbon Amplifier'?


As in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is
what we are going for.


A rectifier is a switch. Diodes are used as mixers, and the
rectifiers a poorly designed power supply can generate RF that is
coupled into the power line.


Sigh. Small minds like yours will never learn anything.


Oscillators do not use one signal to control another. A Gunn diode is a
lot like a neon lamp meets quartz crystal. Not a switch. Not an amplifier.


Sigh. Study that technology, rather than make a fool of yourself.
The proper bias creates a negative resistance, which provides gain.


A neon has hysteresis, not gain. They require a current limiting
resistor, or they will explode. They turn on at a higher voltage than
they turn off so a capacitor across the neon will charge, until the lamp
fires. The cap discharges to the extinguishing point, and repeats the
cycle. We built sirens with a couple neons, a 35W4 and a 50C5 tube back
in the '60s


It's a relatively stupid minor point. I looked it up. I am not going to
be convinced with silliness like "carbon amplifiers".


It's not silly. They were used to provide gain in early days of
electronics. It was a carbon mic, coupled do a earpiece. They had plenty
of gain. Find an old 500 series desk phone and pull the cotton wadding
out of the handle. You'll get feedback. Then there are Magnetic
Amplifiers. There is a whole world of electronics you've never seen.
How about 'Electrolytic Rectifiers'? They were one of the first crude,
but useable ways to convert AC to DC without using a motor/generator
set.

On Saturday, January 25, 2014 8:44:18 PM UTC-5, Phil Allison wrote:
** Get cancer and die you criminal ****ing nut case.

You suck aborigines dick with that mouth ?

dave wrote:
On 01/25/2014 01:21 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
dave wrote:
On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An
active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As
in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what
we are going for.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


A relay is a solenoid (no) and a switch (no).

But it controls one signal with another.

What about a PIN diode, or even an ordinary switching diode. They've
been commonly used to switch an small ac signal with a dc voltage for
*years*.

Phil Allison wrote:

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, it's a rhetorical technique Phil.

Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How
can a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device.


No, it will crush the quartz, resulting in one spike as it breaks up.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.


Like a 'Carbon Amplifier'?


As in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is
what we are going for.


A rectifier is a switch. Diodes are used as mixers, and the
rectifiers a poorly designed power supply can generate RF that is
coupled into the power line.


Sigh. Small minds like yours will never learn anything.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gunn_diode


The Gunn diode is based on the Gunn effect, and both are named for the
physicist J. B. Gunn who, at IBM in 1962, discovered the effect because
he refused to accept inconsistent experimental results in gallium
arsenide as "noise", and tracked down the cause. Alan Chynoweth, of Bell
Telephone Laboratories, showed in June 1965 that only a
transferred-electron mechanism could explain the experimental
results.[3] The interpretation refers to the Ridley-Watkins-Hilsum
theory.

The Gunn effect, and its relation to the Watkins-Ridley-Hilsum effect
entered the monograph literature in the early 1970s, e.g. in books on
transferred electron devices[4] and, more recently on nonlinear wave
methods for charge transport.[5] Several other books that provided the
same coverage were published in the intervening years, and can be found
by searching library and bookseller catalogues on Gunn effect.




http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esaki_diode AKA Tunnel diode was invented
in 1958. It was used as a 14 GHz amplifier in Intelsat V satellite
receiver.



Or the PIN diode, commonly used to switch rf with a dc voltage.

To get oscillation you need to provide gain to overcome the circuit
losses, so you have some type of amplification happening, which
implies an active device.

Dave doesn't seem to understand any of this, he just keeps parroting
the same words repeatedly.

On 2014-01-25, Jerry Peters wrote:
dave wrote:
On 01/23/2014 06:05 PM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:

dave wrote:

On 01/23/2014 06:45 AM, Michael A. Terrell wrote:


It is not a switch or a valve.


It's a solid state diode that oscillates. DC in, and ~10 GHZ out.
Search on Gunnplexer. You see them on automatic doors in almost every
store. A microwave mixer diode takes a sample from the Gunn diode and
compares it to any reflected signals. This results in a low frequency
signal that is detected, amplified and signals the door to open. How can
a passive diode do that?


Like I said. You can hit a piece of quartz with a hammer and it will
oscillate; that doesn't mean it's considered and active device. An
active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another. As
in amplify or switch. Thermionic valve, transistor, SCR, Triac is what
we are going for.


An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?

We should probably apply the "active" or "passive" designation to circuits
rather than devices. When we say that a device is active, it means that the
only sensible way of using it is in the role where it provides an active
circuit.

A passive circuit is one in which the energy source for driving the output
signals is derived from the input signals, rather than from some auxiliary
power supply.

Anything else is an active circuit.

Because the energy for driving outputs is derived from inputs in a passive
device, a passive device can never amplify power; though if it contains
inductors, it can step voltage up or down and thereby modify impedance.

A logic inverter circuit built on a relay is definitely active. Justification:
the device produces an output which is based on the input, but which does not
draw energy from the input at all to power the output. Power is applied to the
switch, in series with a load resistor. This energy source is not considered
an input signal.

If the relay's switch is used to pass through or cut off a signal (say as part
of a multiplexer), then we can regard it as passive. When the signal passes
through the relay, it does so without amplification: the output is powered by
the input. The next and previous device are not isolated from each other's
impedances in any way by the relay; it is transparent. Moreover, the relay's
coil is powered by *its* input: the switching mechanism itself does not have
its own source of power.

(Note that by the same logic, we could argue that a FET used for signal
switching also gives rise to a passive circuit.)

On 01/26/2014 01:10 PM, Jerry Peters wrote:
Phil Allison wrote:

"Jerry Peters"

An active device uses one signal [current, voltage] to control another.

So a relay is an active device?


** Trying to define a word or term *out of context* is doomed to failure.

It's called reductio ad absurdum, it's a rhetorical technique Phil.

No reason to curse. I will concede because I'm tired of arguing. Y'all
are being too abstruse for me to keep up. One final offering from the
old Rane Pro Audio Reference.
....
active component Electronics. A component requiring power to operate,
e.g. a transistor. Contrast with passive.

passive component Electronics. A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active.

....

nothing is resolved, other than I am stupid and you know all.

"dave" wrote in message
m...

active component: A component requiring power to operate,
e.g. a transistor. Contrast with passive.

passive component: A component that does not require power
to operate, e.g., a resistor. Contrast with active.

That isn't the way I learned. As someone else said, an active device provides
amplification of some sort.

The question of /control/ is another matter.