I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

[This followup was posted to sci.electronics.repair and a copy was sent
to the cited author.]

In article 726d73a3-50b9-4ad2-bf08-7bfd9ec0c6f1
@w3g2000vbw.googlegroups.com, says...

I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

Even on TV's that had video output, it usually only worked for ANALOG
signals. Digital signals were always locked to the TV so as not to ****
off the media companies.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.comcast.net/~andyross

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 05:47:45 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.
If you are repairng TVs it's time to move into the 21st century. Look
into the various DVRs available. TiVo is the premier brand, but there
are others.

PlainBill

On Dec 11, 1:57*pm, wrote:
On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 05:47:45 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper

wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

If you are repairng TVs it's time to move into the 21st century. *Look
into the various DVRs available. *TiVo is the premier brand, but there
are others.

PlainBill

And why PlainBill do I personally need all that stuff, because YOU say
I do? Lenny

On Dec 11, 11:15*am, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
On Dec 11, 1:57*pm, wrote:





On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 05:47:45 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper

wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

If you are repairng TVs it's time to move into the 21st century.
*Look
into the various DVRs available. *TiVo is the premier brand, but
there
are others.

PlainBill

And why PlainBill do I personally need all that stuff, because YOU
say
I do? Lenny

Because Bill is right. The PC is barely bigger than the crappy VCR
(and ALL VCRs are crappy compared to the PC) you want to use. I have
remote controls for the PC that do the same function as the VCR, just
better. I promise that if you try it you'll wonder why you didn't
change sooner.

G²

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:15:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

And why PlainBill do I personally need all that stuff, because YOU say
I do? Lenny

Because all you really need is food, shelter, and clothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_needs
How far you climb out of your cave largely depends on how far above
the subsistence level you feel comfortable. If glorified technical
poverty is your maximum level of achievement, then you probably do not
need a DVR.
http://www.google.com/search?q=minimalist+lifestyle&tbm=isch
If you obtain your entertainment in ways other than TV, then a DVR is
again wasted on your lifestyle[1]. If your philosophical or religious
convictions proscribe watching TV, then a DVR is not required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living
However, if you do watch TV, and find that convenience, time shifting,
and fast forward through commercials, are useful additions to your
lifestyle, then a DVR is required.

DVR Penetration Grows to 39.7% of Households, 42.2% of Viewers
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/03/23/dvr-penetration-grows-to-39-7-of-households-42-2-of-viewers/86819/

[1] I spent about 10 years without owning a TV and survived.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:37:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:

On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:15:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

And why PlainBill do I personally need all that stuff, because YOU say
I do? Lenny

Because all you really need is food, shelter, and clothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_needs
How far you climb out of your cave largely depends on how far above
the subsistence level you feel comfortable. If glorified technical
poverty is your maximum level of achievement, then you probably do not
need a DVR.
http://www.google.com/search?q=minimalist+lifestyle&tbm=isch
If you obtain your entertainment in ways other than TV, then a DVR is
again wasted on your lifestyle[1]. If your philosophical or religious
convictions proscribe watching TV, then a DVR is not required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living
However, if you do watch TV, and find that convenience, time shifting,
and fast forward through commercials, are useful additions to your
lifestyle, then a DVR is required.

DVR Penetration Grows to 39.7% of Households, 42.2% of Viewers
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/03/23/dvr-penetration-grows-to-39-7-of-households-42-2-of-viewers/86819/

[1] I spent about 10 years without owning a TV and survived.
I have to agree with Jeff, I lived the first 18 years of my life
without a TV, and claim it has not distorted my personality, thus you
do not NEED a DVR. However, you DESIRE a means of recording TV
broadcasts. That can be accomplished by three methods - VCR, DVR
(either stand alone or a computer running something like Myth-TV), or
DVD recorder.

It's been over 10 years since I used a VCR for time-shifting. At that
time you set the time it should start and stop recording and tuned it
to the channel. Perhaps things have advanced since then.

Certainly with the switch to digital broadcasts you must either have
a separate converter box, or a recorder that incorporates an ATSC
tuner. Using a recorder (VCR, DVR, or DVD) that records the signal
without any analog conversion is preferable - the data stream is
compressed using the MPEG-4 algorithm.

A quick search for VCRs with ATSC tuners brought up a number of them,
all incorporating a DVD recorder. Typical prices were in the
$250-$300 range; a bit rich for my wallet. It also brought up the
TiVo TCD746320 Premiere DVR at under $80, but that requires a monthly
subscription, something to be viewed with caution. And it brought up
the brite-View BV-980H Digital Antenna HD DVR for $200, no
subscription required. With a 320 Gig hard drive it can hold up to 39
hours of HD programming, or 450 hours of SD programming. That's
equivalent to 75 VHS tapes.

PlainBill

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 16:08:21 -0700, wrote:

[1] I spent about 10 years without owning a TV and survived.

I have to agree with Jeff,

Something is wrong. This is Usenet and nobody ever agrees with
anyone, especially me.

I lived the first 18 years of my life
without a TV, and claim it has not distorted my personality, thus you
do not NEED a DVR.

Nicely done. What convinced me to get a TV was:
1. The price. It was free.
2. I was bribed to proof and edit some training videos on Unix.
3. I felt culturally deprived. Friends would mention movies and
actors. I had no idea what they were talking about.

However, you DESIRE a means of recording TV
broadcasts. That can be accomplished by three methods - VCR, DVR
(either stand alone or a computer running something like Myth-TV), or
DVD recorder.

The limiting factor on home made DVR construction is the noise of the
fan. I've built various no-fan schemes in the past. They worked but
all had their limitations and complications. These days, it's easy
enough with SBC (single board computah). I have a DVR integrated into
my DirecTV receiver, which makes an external DVR a marginal
improvement.

It's been over 10 years since I used a VCR for time-shifting. At that
time you set the time it should start and stop recording and tuned it
to the channel. Perhaps things have advanced since then.

Yep. I can connect to the DirecTV web pile and search the program
guide using the user interface from hell. When I find what I want,
usually more by luck than by intent, I can command my home DVR to
record the show. DirecTV sends the commands to the DVR via the
satellite. Also works via my iPhone. There are also some built in
algorithms for recording regularly scheduled shows (e.g. Mythbusters)
and automagically discarding ancient recordings to make room. There's
also an ethernet connection and associated PC program, that allows
playing shows on a PC that are stored on the DVR, or copying the show
from the DVR to the PC. DRM is epidemic, but not too horrible for
home use. I have plenty of complaints and improvement suggestions,
but basically, it works and does roughly what I want.

Certainly with the switch to digital broadcasts you must either have
a separate converter box, or a recorder that incorporates an ATSC
tuner. Using a recorder (VCR, DVR, or DVD) that records the signal
without any analog conversion is preferable - the data stream is
compressed using the MPEG-4 algorithm.

That's how the built in DVR works.

A quick search for VCRs with ATSC tuners brought up a number of them,
all incorporating a DVD recorder. Typical prices were in the
$250-$300 range; a bit rich for my wallet.

The DirecTV DVR cost me nearly zero when I first signed up about 5
years ago. I've replaced it twice for $100 each time. There's a
$5/month charge for the DVR, which is mostly to pay for the program
guide.

It also brought up the
TiVo TCD746320 Premiere DVR at under $80, but that requires a monthly
subscription, something to be viewed with caution. And it brought up
the brite-View BV-980H Digital Antenna HD DVR for $200, no
subscription required. With a 320 Gig hard drive it can hold up to 39
hours of HD programming, or 450 hours of SD programming. That's
equivalent to 75 VHS tapes.

I have a VCR that will record 1280 hrs of security camera stuff per
tape. Duz that count?

I have an old Tivo 2 DVR with a lifetime subscription. NTSC video
only and useless for satellite or cable. It's going on eBay when I
have time to make sure it works and it's updated. I also has a
Philips something DVR and DVD burner combo. Plenty of DVR's but
nothing that's better than the one built into the DirecTV receiver.

--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Dec 22, 6:08*pm, wrote:
On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 07:37:05 -0800, Jeff Liebermann
wrote:









On Sun, 11 Dec 2011 11:15:30 -0800 (PST), klem kedidelhopper
wrote:

And why PlainBill do I personally need all that stuff, because YOU say
I do? Lenny

Because all you really need is food, shelter, and clothing:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Basic_needs
How far you climb out of your cave largely depends on how far above
the subsistence level you feel comfortable. *If glorified technical
poverty is your maximum level of achievement, then you probably do not
need a DVR.
http://www.google.com/search?q=minimalist+lifestyle&tbm=isch
If you obtain your entertainment in ways other than TV, then a DVR is
again wasted on your lifestyle[1]. *If your philosophical or religious
convictions proscribe watching TV, then a DVR is not required.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Simple_living
However, if you do watch TV, and find that convenience, time shifting,
and fast forward through commercials, are useful additions to your
lifestyle, then a DVR is required.

DVR Penetration Grows to 39.7% of Households, 42.2% of Viewers
http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2011/03/23/dvr-penetration-grows-to-....

[1] I spent about 10 years without owning a TV and survived.

I have to agree with Jeff, I lived the first 18 years of my life
without a TV, and claim it has not distorted my personality, thus you
do not NEED a DVR. *However, you DESIRE a means of recording TV
broadcasts. *That can be accomplished by three methods - VCR, DVR
(either stand alone or a computer running something like Myth-TV), or
DVD recorder.

It's been over 10 years since I used a VCR for time-shifting. *At that
time you set the time it should start and stop recording and tuned it
to the channel. *Perhaps things have advanced since then.

* Certainly with the switch to digital broadcasts you must either have
a separate converter box, or a recorder that incorporates an ATSC
tuner. *Using a recorder (VCR, DVR, or DVD) that records the signal
without any analog conversion is preferable - the data stream is
compressed using the MPEG-4 algorithm.

A quick search for VCRs with ATSC tuners brought up a number of them,
all incorporating a DVD recorder. *Typical prices were in the
$250-$300 range; *a bit rich for my wallet. *It also brought up the
TiVo TCD746320 Premiere DVR at under $80, but that requires a monthly
subscription, something to be viewed with caution. *And it brought up
the brite-View BV-980H Digital Antenna HD DVR for $200, no
subscription required. *With a 320 Gig hard drive it can hold up to 39
hours of HD programming, or 450 hours of SD programming. *That's
equivalent to 75 VHS tapes.

PlainBill

Thanks for that PlainBill, clearly I was not making any comment about
professional VCRs being invented in the anywhere, just mass acceptance
of VCRs as consumer items: This is borne out by the existence of
readily available Sony U-Matic machines before the Philips 1500. But
though my next door neighbour had one for consumer use, they were
hardly a consumer item! (and had no consumer features)

I note that no one has answered the question about what on earth those
USB ports on (eg) Motorola cable boxes in the States can be used for?
Are they really disabled?

klem kedidelhopper wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

converter box.

On Dec 11, 5:47*am, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

Why? Get a tuner card for your PC and use IT in place of the VCR. I
started that 7 years ago and can't imagine putting up with a VCR, its
limited record time and less than std def video. It doesn't take much
of a PC to record HD video but if you're planning to surf the web
while it's recording you should consider a dual or quad core processor
or else you'll get some stutters. I haven't seen a one since switching
to the first AMD Phenom tri-core. You can play files across the
network all in HD while the source PC is recording something else. BTW
the picture is indistinguishable from 'live'.

G²

dave wrote:

Sounds a great idea (would like to try it). However it does mean
having a pc + keyboard etc and when pushed for space that could be a
problem. Could make custom "slimline" PC I suppose - I mean no need
for it to be a tower or whatever. Do you by any chance (he asks
optimistically) have any more detail info/tips etc on setting this up?

I'm not in the US, so I can't give you model names and numbers that would
be of any help. However ALL of the set top boxes sold here have USB ports
on them.

The early ones would let you plug in a USB disk or memory stick and use it as a
PVR (personal video recorder). They get information on what to record based
on program guide data sent in the data stream.

The early ones simply recorded the programs as a raw MPEG transport stream
and only played back things they recorded. The newer ones record it as a
more common file type (playable on a PC) and play most formats of downloadable
videos.

Compared to a PC, they are small, cheap ($50 on up), produce no heat or noise,
and so on. If you use a memory stick instead of a hard drive, they are
quiet and cool.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

On Dec 21, 12:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:
dave wrote:

Sounds a great idea (would like to try it). However it does mean
having a pc + keyboard etc and when pushed for space that could be a
problem. Could make custom "slimline" *PC I suppose - I mean no need
for it to be a tower or whatever. Do you by any chance (he asks
optimistically) have any more detail info/tips etc on setting this up?

I'm not in the US, so I can't give you model names and numbers that would
be of any help. However ALL of the set top boxes sold here have USB ports
on them.

The early ones would let you plug in a USB disk or memory stick and use it as a
PVR (personal video recorder). They get information on what to record based
on program guide data sent in the data stream.

The early ones simply recorded the programs as a raw MPEG transport stream
and only played back things they recorded. The newer ones record it as a
more common file type (playable on a PC) and play most formats of downloadable
videos.

Compared to a PC, they are small, cheap ($50 on up), produce no heat or noise,
and so on. If you use a memory stick instead of a hard drive, they are
quiet and cool.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

That is very interesting. May i ask where you found this out? Is this
documented in any manual?'

The reason I ask is that here in the US, all set top boxes have
similarly had USB ports for quite a long time as well. However I was
under the impression that they didnt do anything or were inoperative.
The reason I was under the impression that they were inoperative has
been because i have repeatedly been told that in specific terms by
every cable company technician I have ever spoken to about this!

As the OP I have been mystified by certain arguments in this thread:
Namely that everyone should stop using VCRs and go over to some form
of DVR, usually touted as being contained in a cable box which you
have to rent from someone. I should add that VCRs are comparatively
new in the US, and americans uniformly think that they invented them,
possibly around the mid 1980s (I even saw a TV program supporting this
view from no less august a source than Popular Mechanics as recently
as yesterday!!). In England things have always been more advanced,
with the original Phillips 1500s being introduced and gaining
reasonably widespread acceptance in the mid 1970s. Even in those days,
VCRs had relatively advanced features which let users time shift and
arrange to turn the recorder on and off and tune channels in advance
of the program being recorded. As time went on, throughout the 80s,
90s and naughties, these features became more and more advanced until
they really were quite sophisticated.

Suddenly about five years ago the world went over to a new (?) system,
and one in which you could only turn a DVR such as an Archos ON (and
sometimes even OFF), - and then only if you are there to do it in
real time. And then sometimes only to view some tiny recorded picture
in a small box in the middle of a huge TV screen!

Why are Americans so unsophisticated and is there really some way of
using this USB port in conjunction with a computer to obviate all this
lack of sophistication? Someone please tell me that I am wrong about
Americans being so unsophisticated and why, when Klem commented on how
easy recording programs (yes, even multiple programs and even when you
arent there to turn it on) on VCRs used to be, everyone jumped down
his throat and told him to move into the 21st Century!

On Dec 21, 3:34*pm, myfathersson wrote:
That is very interesting. May i ask where you found this out? Is this
documented in any manual?'

The reason I ask is that here in the US, all set top boxes have
similarly had USB ports for quite a long time as well. However I was
under the impression that they didnt do anything or were inoperative.
The reason I was under the impression that they were inoperative has
been because i have repeatedly been told that in specific terms by
every cable company technician I have ever spoken to about this!

As the OP I have been mystified by certain arguments in this thread:
Namely that everyone should stop using VCRs and go over to some form
of DVR, usually touted as being contained in a cable box which you
have to rent from someone. I should add that VCRs are comparatively
new in the US, and americans uniformly think that they invented them,
possibly around the mid 1980s (I even saw a TV program supporting this
view from no less august a source than Popular Mechanics as recently
as yesterday!!). In England things have always been *more advanced,
with the original Phillips 1500s being introduced and gaining
reasonably widespread acceptance in the mid 1970s. Even in those days,
VCRs had relatively advanced features which let users time shift and
arrange to turn the recorder on and off and tune channels in advance
of the program being recorded. As time went on, throughout the 80s,
90s and naughties, these features became more and more advanced until
they really were quite sophisticated.

Suddenly about five years ago the world went over to a new (?) system,
and one in which you could only turn a DVR such as an Archos ON (and
sometimes even *OFF), - *and then only if you are there to do it in
real time. *And then sometimes only to view some tiny recorded picture
in a small box in the middle of a huge TV screen!

Why are Americans so unsophisticated and is there really some way of
using this USB port in conjunction with a computer to obviate all this
lack of sophistication? Someone please tell me that I am wrong about
Americans being so unsophisticated and why, when Klem commented on how
easy recording programs (yes, even multiple programs and even when you
arent there to turn it on) on VCRs used to be, everyone jumped down
his throat and told him to move into the 21st Century!

I got my first VCR in 1977, a Sony Betamax personal purchase half off
for only $650. When I tell you VCRs are crap, its because they are
crap They were ALWAYS crap but it was all we had so it was "good".
Picture is poor, media wears out, machine wears out, tapes get
damaged, recording time is finite. Why would anyone want such a thing
when you don't have to use it? Yes the recording time is finite on my
computer too but there is about 150 hours currently on the machine and
room for several hundred more. It's all in HD and identical to 'live'.
Then there are 2 more machines with similar stories. USB drives are
fine for archiving but gigabit LAN is even better.

BTW while the VCR was 'invented' in Japan, practical videotape
recording was in fact invented in the USA by the Ampex Corporation.
The first use of a VTR on air commercially was from CBS Television
City on November 30, 1956 to run 15 minutes of Douglas Edwards news
for the west coast network feed.

Also, those Japanese VCR manufacturers all paid licensing fees to
Ampex. They shrunk and repackaged the concept. Does that qualify as an
invention?

http://www.cedmagic.com/history/ampe...-vtr-1956.html

G²
Another unsophisticated American.

wrote in message
...
On Dec 21, 3:34 pm, myfathersson wrote:

I got my first VCR in 1977, a Sony Betamax personal purchase half off
for only $650. When I tell you VCRs are crap, its because they are
crap They were ALWAYS crap but it was all we had so it was "good".
Picture is poor, media wears out, machine wears out, tapes get
damaged, recording time is finite. Why would anyone want such a thing
when you don't have to use it?

Here we go again...

Yes, it makes a lot more sense to record on a DVR. The consumer VCR is both
technically and practically obsolete. That said...

Unlike VHS, the Betamax represented an excellent compromise between price
and quality. The first time I saw a Betamax recording (playing on Sony's
original 19" console TV/VCR combo), I didn't know whether it was live or
recorded. I used a Betamax for years for time-shifting, and I assure you,
the machine was not "crap", and the picture was in no way "poor".


Also, those Japanese VCR manufacturers all paid licensing fees to
Ampex. They shrunk and repackaged the concept. Does that qualify
as an invention?

Yes, because the Japanese helical-scan system (invented by Hitachi, I think)
was quite different from the Ampex quadruplex [sic] system.

On Dec 21, 3:34*pm, myfathersson wrote:
On Dec 21, 12:39*am, "Geoffrey S. Mendelson"
wrote:

Sounds a great idea (would like to try it). However it does mean
having a pc + keyboard etc and when pushed for space that could be a
problem. Could make custom "slimline" *PC I suppose - I mean no need
for it to be a tower or whatever. Do you by any chance (he asks
optimistically) have any more detail info/tips etc on setting this up?

I'm not in the US, so I can't give you model names and numbers that would
be of any help. However ALL of the set top boxes sold here have USB ports
on them.

The early ones would let you plug in a USB disk or memory stick and use it as a
PVR (personal video recorder). They get information on what to record based
on program guide data sent in the data stream.

The early ones simply recorded the programs as a raw MPEG transport stream
and only played back things they recorded. The newer ones record it as a
more common file type (playable on a PC) and play most formats of downloadable
videos.

Compared to a PC, they are small, cheap ($50 on up), produce no heat or noise,
and so on. If you use a memory stick instead of a hard drive, they are
quiet and cool.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, *N3OWJ/4X1GM
My high blood pressure medicine reduces my midichlorian count. :-(

That is very interesting. May i ask where you found this out? Is this
documented in any manual?'

The reason I ask is that here in the US, all set top boxes have
similarly had USB ports for quite a long time as well. However I was
under the impression that they didnt do anything or were inoperative.
The reason I was under the impression that they were inoperative has
been because i have repeatedly been told that in specific terms by
every cable company technician I have ever spoken to about this!

As the OP I have been mystified by certain arguments in this thread:
Namely that everyone should stop using VCRs and go over to some form
of DVR, usually touted as being contained in a cable box which you
have to rent from someone. I should add that VCRs are comparatively
new in the US, and americans uniformly think that they invented them,
possibly around the mid 1980s (I even saw a TV program supporting this
view from no less august a source than Popular Mechanics as recently
as yesterday!!). In England things have always been *more advanced,
with the original Phillips 1500s being introduced and gaining
reasonably widespread acceptance in the mid 1970s.

Philips is a Dutch company, correct?

The video cassette recording system Cartrivision was introduced at the
Summer Consumer Electronics Show in 1970. Sold at first exclusively by
Sears retail stores, the system was noteworthy for being the first to
rent prerecorded movies -- by mail, making it a predecessor of
Netflix.

Even in those days,
VCRs had relatively advanced features which let users time shift and
arrange to turn the recorder on and off and tune channels in advance
of the program being recorded.

How were the copyright infringement issues resolved in the UK?

As time went on, throughout the 80s,
90s and naughties, these features became more and more advanced until
they really were quite sophisticated.

Suddenly about five years ago the world went over to a new (?) system,
and one in which you could only turn a DVR such as an Archos ON (and
sometimes even *OFF), - *and then only if you are there to do it in
real time. *And then sometimes only to view some tiny recorded picture
in a small box in the middle of a huge TV screen!

Why are Americans so unsophisticated and is there really some way of
using this USB port in conjunction with a computer to obviate all this
lack of sophistication? Someone please tell me that I am wrong about
Americans being so unsophisticated and why, when Klem commented on how
easy recording programs (yes, even multiple programs and even when you
arent there to turn it on) on VCRs used to be, everyone jumped down
his throat and told him to move into the 21st Century!

The unnecessary conversion from digital to analog in order to record
using 40 year old technology offends engineers. It would be like
renting a Super-8 version of a Cinemascope film.

spamtrap1888 wrote:

The video cassette recording system Cartrivision was introduced at the
Summer Consumer Electronics Show in 1970. Sold at first exclusively by
Sears retail stores, the system was noteworthy for being the first to
rent prerecorded movies -- by mail, making it a predecessor of
Netflix.


The Cartrivision system was developed by AVCO, at what later became
the Cincinnati, Electronics plant on Glendale-Milford road. The
prototypes and test fixtures were still on site a few years later, when
I did QA on the PRC-77 for CE. There were two types of cartridges. One
you could record on, and rewind. The other was play once only, then the
cartridge had to be returned to where you rented it so it could be
rewound on a separate machine before it could be rented out again.


--
You can't have a sense of humor, if you have no sense.

America is almost certainly the most stupid, parochial, unsophisticated, and
just-plain-brainless Western society. What else is new?

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
...
America is almost certainly the most stupid, parochial, unsophisticated,
and
just-plain-brainless Western society. What else is new?




And there are too many people in the U.S. who think the European way is
better.

The grass is often greener on the other side of the fence, unless perhaps
you are invested in your status quo.

The generic, sweeping, reflexive name-calling is unappreciated, by me at
least, even if by being so generalized, there are necessarily elements of
truth contained within.

Mark Z.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 02:58:06 -0800 "William Sommerjerck"
wrote in Message id:
:

America is almost certainly the most stupid, parochial, unsophisticated, and
just-plain-brainless Western society. What else is new?

Hey Will, Go **** Yourself with a splintered fence post.

On Thu, 22 Dec 2011 02:58:06 -0800, "William Sommerwerck"
wrote:

America is almost certainly the most stupid, parochial, unsophisticated, and
just-plain-brainless Western society. What else is new?


No way, both the (run by plumbers mates) UK and France outdoes the US in
all arenas of idiocy except corruption. Even the nutters in Bressles have
a hard time keepin' up with the US is corruption.

?-)

On Dec 11 2011, 2:47*pm, klem kedidelhopper
wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

I still record on videotape (a proven medium after all) - picture
quality can be perfectly satisfactory for recording off tv. I don't
want everything on a hard drive that is likely to fail and I lose
everything. I've seen so many portable HDDs fail it's not even funny,
so I'd avoid that route if you want to capture important things.

You will need any cheap set top digital box, just plug the antenna
into it and use the box's AV out to connect to the line in of the
video (often called A1, A2, EXT, E1, E2, etc). Then connect the video
to the telly in the normal way. Your antenna might need upgrading as
the digital signal is far more demanding than good ol' analogue. see
here for some info:
http://www.aerialsandtv.com/digitaltv.html#digitalmyths

And if your vcr has a choice of speeds, always try to use SP (unless,
say, you want a few films on the one cassette). The other speeds tend
to be incompatible when exchanging tapes between decks and any
misalignment of the tape path or dropouts in the tape are magnified.
With used VHS tapes freeely available, it makes no sense to skimp by
using some stupid low speed .
HTH.
- B

On Jan 5, 7:00*am, b wrote:
On Dec 11 2011, 2:47*pm, klem kedidelhopper

wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

I still record on videotape (a proven medium after all) - picture
quality can be perfectly satisfactory for recording off tv. I don't
want everything on a hard drive that is likely to fail and I lose
everything. I've seen so many portable HDDs fail it's not even funny,
so I'd avoid that route if you want to capture important things.

You will need any cheap set top digital box, just plug the antenna
into it and use the box's AV out to connect to the line in of the
video (often called A1, A2, EXT, E1, E2, etc). Then connect the video
to the telly in the normal way. Your antenna might need upgrading as
the digital signal is far more demanding than good ol' analogue. see
here for some info:http://www.aerialsandtv.com/digitaltv.html#digitalmyths

And if your vcr has a choice of speeds, always try to use SP (unless,
say, you want a few films on the one cassette). The other speeds tend
to be incompatible when exchanging tapes between decks and any
misalignment of the tape path or dropouts in the tape are magnified.
With used VHS tapes freeely available, it makes no sense to skimp by
using some stupid low speed .
HTH.
- B

You may be right but I started this thread because I have a smallish
apartment and cant stand all those huge cassettes cluttering up the
place. We have piles and piles of them and the whole apartment is
overrun with VHS tapes either in layers or separately but all looking
the same! Especially the kids ones which are PAL and which the kids
seem to prefer watching on an Archos 5, especially in a car. not only
that, but if you want to skip to a bit of the tape where your primary
film is or some 30 minute TV show is, it takes an age to do this. Not
to mention find the right tape to do it!!

(Back in the good old days when VCRs were sophisticated, you used to
be able to mark a bit of the tape and go straight to it in a mere five
minutes).

In the 21st Century it seems to be impossible to get a child to put a
tape in a VCR and wind to the relevant bit rather than open a screen
and see a few dozen films on it and touch-flo to the one they want.

This was why I was musing why no one except the cable companies had
brought out lines of sophisticated HDD VCRs

On Jan 6, 6:58*pm, myfathersson wrote:
.. *not only
that, but if you want to skip to a bit of the tape where your primary
film is or some 30 minute TV show is, it takes an age to do this. *Not
to mention find the right tape to do it!!

(Back in the good old days when VCRs were sophisticated, you used to
be able to mark a bit of the tape and go straight to it in a mere five
minutes).

the trick is to use a vcr with real time counter (nearly all made
since about 1990 have this). write a note on the tape box of the start
point time of key sections. Then all you have to do is insert the
tape, rewind if need be, then use the 'goto' or 'time search'
function, or just keep an eye on the counter in ff. sounds complicated
compared to dvd, but if you've done it a few times it gets to be
second nature.

Another wise move might be to dub a compilation tape (or a few) of the
most common programme material, to save hunting thru countless
casettes.
-B

On Jan 6, 3:39*pm, b wrote:
On Jan 6, 6:58*pm, myfathersson wrote:
. *not only

that, but if you want to skip to a bit of the tape where your primary
film is or some 30 minute TV show is, it takes an age to do this. *Not
to mention find the right tape to do it!!

(Back in the good old days when VCRs were sophisticated, you used to
be able to mark a bit of the tape and go straight to it in a mere five
minutes).

the trick is to use a vcr with real time counter (nearly all made
since about 1990 have this). write a note on the tape box of the start
point time of key sections. Then all you have to do is insert the
tape, rewind if need be, then use the 'goto' or 'time search'
function, or just keep an eye on the counter in ff. sounds complicated
compared to dvd, but if you've done it a few times it gets to be
second nature.

Another wise move might be to dub a compilation tape (or a few) of the
most common programme material, to save hunting thru countless
casettes.
-B

Aint dat da truth!! I still remember my first tape remaining indicator
back in the mid 1990s and wondering why anyone would want to use a
tape counter after using it for more than 5 minutes! And in truth,
another reason for keeoing on using my Iomega Ditto drives is that no
one is likely ever to be able to steal anything off them

On Jan 6, 9:58*am, myfathersson wrote:
On Jan 5, 7:00*am, b wrote:





On Dec 11 2011, 2:47*pm, klem kedidelhopper

wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

I still record on videotape (a proven medium after all) - picture
quality can be perfectly satisfactory for recording off tv. I don't
want everything on a hard drive that is likely to fail and I lose
everything. I've seen so many portable HDDs fail it's not even funny,
so I'd avoid that route if you want to capture important things.

You will need any cheap set top digital box, just plug the antenna
into it and use the box's AV out to connect to the line in of the
video (often called A1, A2, EXT, E1, E2, etc). Then connect the video
to the telly in the normal way. Your antenna might need upgrading as
the digital signal is far more demanding than good ol' analogue. see
here for some info:http://www.aerialsandtv.com/digitaltv.html#digitalmyths

And if your vcr has a choice of speeds, always try to use SP (unless,
say, you want a few films on the one cassette). The other speeds tend
to be incompatible when exchanging tapes between decks and any
misalignment of the tape path or dropouts in the tape are magnified.
With used VHS tapes freeely available, it makes no sense to skimp by
using some stupid low speed .
HTH.
- B

You may be right but I started this thread because I have a smallish
apartment and cant stand all those huge cassettes cluttering up the
place. *We have piles and piles of them and the whole apartment is
overrun with VHS tapes either in layers or separately but all looking
the same! Especially the kids ones which are PAL and which the kids
seem to prefer watching on an Archos 5, especially in a car. *not only
that, but if you want to skip to a bit of the tape where your primary
film is or some 30 minute TV show is, it takes an age to do this. *Not
to mention find the right tape to do it!!

(Back in the good old days when VCRs were sophisticated, you used to
be able to mark a bit of the tape and go straight to it in a mere five
minutes).

In the 21st Century it seems to be impossible to get a child to put a
tape in a VCR and wind to the relevant bit rather than open a screen
and see a few dozen films on it and touch-flo to the one they want.

This was why I was musing why no one except the cable companies had
brought out lines of sophisticated HDD VCRs

Just as an FYI, one 3 TB USB drive can hold 700+ 1 hour HD TV shows OR
2000+ HOURS of std def. That is a LOT of cassette storage. And the
picture is DVD quality (if you captured good material) in SD and
BluRay for the HD. If you keep your file names orderly you can find
things much more easily than with tapes.

G²

On Jan 5, 4:00*am, b wrote:
On Dec 11 2011, 2:47*pm, klem kedidelhopper

wrote:
I used to run my cable and antenna through my VCR and record my
programs and then watch them on my old TV. Well now since the recent
digital transition I can no longer do that, so I was wondering if
anyone knows if it's possible or has ever managed to get a composite
video signal out of a flat screen TV? It seems as though I recall that
this was available on some of the older tube sets but I've never seen
it on a flat screen. Obviously I really don't give a damn about HD. I
would just like to record my programs on my VCR. I realize that
building ground, and live chassis issues would have to be dealt with
but aside from that can it be done? I just fixed up a Visio VP322 that
a customer left here and I plan on using this set in our living room.

I still record on videotape (a proven medium after all) - picture
quality can be perfectly satisfactory for recording off tv. I don't
want everything on a hard drive that is likely to fail and I lose
everything. I've seen so many portable HDDs fail it's not even funny,
so I'd avoid that route if you want to capture important things.

You will need any cheap set top digital box, just plug the antenna
into it and use the box's AV out to connect to the line in of the
video (often called A1, A2, EXT, E1, E2, etc). Then connect the video
to the telly in the normal way. Your antenna might need upgrading as
the digital signal is far more demanding than good ol' analogue. see
here for some info:http://www.aerialsandtv.com/digitaltv.html#digitalmyths

And if your vcr has a choice of speeds, always try to use SP (unless,
say, you want a few films on the one cassette). The other speeds tend
to be incompatible when exchanging tapes between decks and any
misalignment of the tape path or dropouts in the tape are magnified.
With used VHS tapes freeely available, it makes no sense to skimp by
using some stupid low speed .
HTH.
- B

On January 1 KTLA TV reran the 1982 Rose Parade. I recorded it and
took it to work so we could 'appreciate' the cameras which were indeed
as good as possible in the day. KTLA has a well deserved reputation of
doing the best engineering on the parade. The 2012 parade the next day
was so massively better it's hard to believe. If you think a VCR is
satisfactory it's obviously your choice but the DVR kicks its butt on
ANY parameter you care to measure. I've had more lost video from
tape / machine failures than loss from bad disk drives - zero lost on
drives in 7 years. As for disk drive failures, DON"T BANG THEM when
they're running. I 'share' HD OTA recordings with some guys at work.
They like the shows with no commercials. Oh yeah, impossible to do
with tape and no generation loss. Tape is a proven medium? So is a
typewriter - and an 8 track - who cares?

G²