I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really needs
one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern though, is if
I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the seat)
without doing damage to the unit?

Thanks very much for any input.

High or low temperatures will cause the LCD to (respectively) darken or
become extremely sluggish. Very high temperatures might cause the LCD to
lose its Purity Of Essence altogether.

I wouldn't leave any electronic equipment in a car I expected would get
hotter than 100 degrees or so.

Buck Turgidson wrote:

I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really needs
one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern though, is if
I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the seat)
without doing damage to the unit?

I'd advise finding a way of getting local ventilation.

Electronics HATES high temps.

Graham

I use my GPS in a large SUV. I have it mounted on the top of the dash.
The front windscreen is very large, and there is no obstruction for
proper viewing. When I am parked I put a fishing hat on top of it to
look like I threw my fishing hat on top of the dash. I've had GPS's in
my vehicles ever since GPS's for became publicly available.

As for leaving it in the car, as long as it is covered from sunlight on
warm or hot days it should be okay. The radio, system computers, and all
the other electronics in the cars and trucks survive for many years
inside of the vehicle environment. Most electronic equipment can take up
to at least or a little more than 60 deg C or 140 deg F for storage. I
would not recommend operating most consumer electronic equipment in
temperatures exceeding 40 deg C or 104 deg F.


--

JANA
_____


"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..
High or low temperatures will cause the LCD to (respectively) darken or
become extremely sluggish. Very high temperatures might cause the LCD to
lose its Purity Of Essence altogether.

I wouldn't leave any electronic equipment in a car I expected would get
hotter than 100 degrees or so.

In article , says...
I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really needs
one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern though, is if
I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the seat)
without doing damage to the unit?

Check the owners manual for the device. Many may have them available on-
line if you are still shopping around. Check for specifications and any
warnings about temperature extremes.

To be honest, any car-related item should be able to handle a reasonably
wide range.

--
If there is a no_junk in my address, please REMOVE it before replying!
All junk mail senders will be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the
law!!
http://home.att.net/~andyross

You can leave a GPS wherever you want to leave it.Best to throw it away
and buy a real paper Map.
cuhulin

We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F.
cuhulin

wrote:
We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F.
cuhulin

So? Learn what the rest of the world/science uses.
0 C is thawing ice, 100 c is boiling water.

Sjouke Burry wrote:

wrote:

We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F.
cuhulin

So? Learn what the rest of the world/science uses.
0 C is thawing ice, 100 c is boiling water.

I agree. To do otherwise is to assert that Americans are either too
stupid, too lazy, or too arrogant to learn how to deal with both.

--
The e-mail address in our reply-to line is reversed in an attempt to
minimize spam. Our true address is of the form .

I wouldn't take anything Jana says seriously. It's obvious from this
post his judgment and common sense are in serious doubt.
JR

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 23:35:34 -0400, "JANA"
wrote:

I use my GPS in a large SUV.
HOME PAGE:
http://www.seanet.com/~jasonrnorth
--------------------------------------------------

"Buck Turgidson" wrote in message
...
I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really needs
one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern though, is
if I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the
seat) without doing damage to the unit?

Typical ratings:
Operating temperature -10°C to 60°C
Storage temperature -20°C to 70°C
Humidity 0% to 90%, non-precipitating

Safe in a vehicle.

On Sat, 21 Jun 2008 19:50:28 -0400, "Buck Turgidson"
wrote:

I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really needs
one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern though, is if
I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the seat)
without doing damage to the unit?

I think it might vary by maker and model. I'll offer my history of
past GPS's and what happened.

Garmin GPS-45. Nice unit but would always hang when hot. When it
hung, it would run the batteries down fast. It did that when I parked
my truck at the airport, where it took about 5 days to run the car
battery down. The display would turn all black if really overheated,
but would recover when cooled down. It was eventually stolen out of
my truck.

Garmin GPS-65. The display would turn dark blue when overheated.
However, unlike the GPS-45, it would not recover until power cycled.
Fortunately, no excessive battery drain. The navigation electronics
would sometimes hang when overheated, but not always. I think it
requires some additional help in hanging, such as starting the vehicle
and having the battery voltage sag or spike. I blew it up by dumping
a static discharge to the antenna center pin. I still have it if
anyone wants parts and pieces.

Magellan MAP-410. Overheating does not seem to affect the display or
cause it to hang. It hangs all by itself, without any thermal assist.
It may again be the vehicle power causing problems. It has a rather
odd effect when warm. The location fixes tend to go wildly out of
range, and then return. I've tested this from a fixed location (local
restaurant parking lot) both hot and cold. It's quite consistent.
High temperatures makes the VCXO drift further off and therefore make
it easiest to go out of lock. I still have it and use it as a loaner.

Various Novatel GPS boards running a laptop. This GPS is embedded in
my truck and buried under the dash. It's not going to get very hot in
the summer. However, I cleverly located it near the heater ducts,
which does get hot in the winter. After about an hour of running the
heater, the board hangs. It recovers nicely when cooled down.
Probably the same problem as the Magellan MAP-410.

I've also borrowed various navigation and mapping displays. None of
the current stuff has hung, died, or even complained when hot. I
decided that overheating a borrowed $500 mapping GPS was potentially a
bad idea and have resisted to temptation to push the limits. Methinks
you will be doing fine as long as you keep the temperatures
reasonable.

--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:27:50 -0500, wrote:

We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F.
cuhulin

The entire scientific and most of the engineering community speaks
metric. Using Fahrenheit labels you a technical Neanderthal. I tend
to use both, depending on the audience. To scientists, engineers, and
those with a clue, it's Celcius or Rankine (absolute temp). To the
GUM (great unwashed masses) it's Farenheit. Admittedly, upgrading
from F to C does take some practice and adaptation. However, I think
it's worth the effort. Try it.


--
Jeff Liebermann
150 Felker St #D http://www.LearnByDestroying.com
Santa Cruz CA 95060 http://802.11junk.com
Skype: JeffLiebermann AE6KS 831-336-2558

If you are a professional in any type of scientific field, it does not
matter where you are located, C deg is used. This also includes America!

Get educated!!!

--

JANA
_____


wrote in message
...
We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F.
cuhulin

JANA wrote:
If you are a professional in any type of scientific field, it does not
matter where you are located, C deg is used. This also includes America!

Get educated!!!


Hello JANA:

Up till last year, I worked for decades at a big place, for the U.S.
government, where lots of taxpayer dollars go for big science. We
collaborate with many folks from other countries. I well remember the
large effort that was made to get us to warm up to the metric system.
Within a very short period of time, our metric conversion materials
sank to the bottom-rear of our desk drawers.

When I left, you couldn't tell if there had been any conversion effort
at all. I'm sure that some of us genuinely tried. Others went along
with whatever those around us were doing. Some, never tried at all.

When the equipment you work with hasn't been converted, or the specs
you deal with are still inches, feet and degrees F, it doesn't pay to
follow a different drum.

Expressing yourself in both systems, when appropriate, or considering
your audience, is how we did it before the conversion effort, and
after. If the person you're working with wants to talk meters or
degrees Celsius, you accommodate with minimal fuss.

Best wishes to all.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

I would guess that in your situation what happened is to be expected. If
you were working in an actual lab with calibrated instruments and had to
be working with people in other countries, metric would be the standard.
In fact, if you were to buy any modern laboratory type instruments for
research, many of them come in metric only.

I was reading some articles that explained that the reason why the US
did not go with metric was because of the massive cost. At the time when
many of the countries around the world changed most of the instruments
for commercial and consumer use were mainly mechanical and the
electronic ones were not easily re-programmable. The cost of changing
would have been very high.

In Canada the change was done, but at a very high cost. Canada was
forced to change because of the situation in how they do business with
Europe and Asia. There are very few countries left in the world that are
not on the metric system. We'll see what happens over the next 10 years
or so if the US will be forced to change over to metric.


--

JANA
_____


"1PW" wrote in message
. ..
JANA wrote:
If you are a professional in any type of scientific field, it does not
matter where you are located, C deg is used. This also includes
America!

Get educated!!!


Hello JANA:

Up till last year, I worked for decades at a big place, for the U.S.
government, where lots of taxpayer dollars go for big science. We
collaborate with many folks from other countries. I well remember the
large effort that was made to get us to warm up to the metric system.
Within a very short period of time, our metric conversion materials
sank to the bottom-rear of our desk drawers.

When I left, you couldn't tell if there had been any conversion effort
at all. I'm sure that some of us genuinely tried. Others went along
with whatever those around us were doing. Some, never tried at all.

When the equipment you work with hasn't been converted, or the specs
you deal with are still inches, feet and degrees F, it doesn't pay to
follow a different drum.

Expressing yourself in both systems, when appropriate, or considering
your audience, is how we did it before the conversion effort, and
after. If the person you're working with wants to talk meters or
degrees Celsius, you accommodate with minimal fuss.

Best wishes to all.

--
1PW

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

JANA wrote:
I would guess that in your situation what happened is to be expected. If
you were working in an actual lab with calibrated instruments and had to
be working with people in other countries, metric would be the standard.
In fact, if you were to buy any modern laboratory type instruments for
research, many of them come in metric only.

O'scopes, yes. Liquid and gas pressures and flow, no. Ultra high
vacuum, Torr. Distances and thicknesses, hardly. Engineering
drawings produced locally, inches & feet.

(If I had produced an engineering CAD drawing, whose dimensions were
only metric, the drawing would have been returned, ignored or lost.)

Nuts, bolts, screws and washers, nope.


I was reading some articles that explained that the reason why the US
did not go with metric was because of the massive cost. At the time when
many of the countries around the world changed most of the instruments
for commercial and consumer use were mainly mechanical and the
electronic ones were not easily re-programmable. The cost of changing
would have been very high.

Maybe cost /was/ the general excuse we hid behind. More likely it
was our human reluctance to change, coupled with insufficient resolve
added to our imperialistic attitudes.

In Canada the change was done, but at a very high cost. Canada was
forced to change because of the situation in how they do business with
Europe and Asia. There are very few countries left in the world that are
not on the metric system. We'll see what happens over the next 10 years
or so if the US will be forced to change over to metric.


We might have looked into having Canadian folks come down for more
than a few years and be our overseers. ;-) If we take a look down the
aisles of today's hardware stores, metric is not easy to find. Our
liquids are still selling by the pint/quart/gallon. Other commodities
are sold by ounces/pounds/feet/inches. If today's children aren't
taught to talk/think/breath metric, we will *never* make the change.

I suppose might still makes right...

--
1PW Just another ugly American.

@?6A62?FEH9E=6o2@=]4@ [r4o7t]

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:07:42 +0200, Sjouke Burry wrote:

wrote:
We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F. cuhulin

So? Learn what the rest of the world/science uses. 0 C is thawing ice,
100 c is boiling water.

Water, and other liquids, boils at different temperatures depending upon
environmental pressure (like altitude). If you're being so precise, state
the conditions under which the water is boiling.

The melting point is characteristic of the material and is not dependent
upon environmental conditions.

;-)

Al

Claude Hopper (11) 5. ? wrote:
Buck Turgidson wrote:
I want to buy a cheap GPS to have for those occasions when one really
needs one. I know there is risk of theft, and all that. My concern
though, is if I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car
(e.g. under the seat) without doing damage to the unit?

Thanks very much for any input.

Can you leave your radio in the car?


Sure you can...but should you?
Leaving a big lcd in direct sunlight day after day can't be good for it.
I expect the failure mode will be the glue that holds the connection strip
to the glass.

The good news is that it will probably last long enough to be stolen.
The bad news is that windows are expensive.

I gave up the second time someone broke a $200 window to steal a $3
radar detector. That'll teach me to park in front of my house.
No more in-car gadgets for me.

Sticking a navigation device under the seat is contrary to it's use.
If it ain't out, you'll soon quit using it...or quit stowing it under
the seat...until it gets stolen. Either way, end result is no navigation.

I have a bluetooth GPS with auto-power on/off in the glovebox.
If I need navigation, I pull the pda outa my shirt pocket, turn
on voice prompts and stick it back into my pocket.

Most people
have no use for a visible display in a moving car. They're too
busy trying to juggle the coffee in one hand and talk on the
cellphone with the other. A gps display would be a distraction.

--
Return address is VALID!
Bunch-O-Stuff Forsale He
http://nm7u.tripod.com/homepage/sale.html

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 11:24:14 -0500, wrote:

You can leave a GPS wherever you want to leave it.Best to throw it away
and buy a real paper Map.
cuhulin

Bravo.

OP, what color's the roof of your car.


If you are inclined to email me
for some reason, remove NOPSAM :-)

1PW wrote:
If we take a look down the aisles of today's hardware stores,
metric is not easy to find.

Although if you look in a supermarket, almost every container is dual
marked with metric and non-metric units on the label. Unfortunately,
voluntary metrication (i.e. metric-only labels) is illegal. One of
several laws forbidding voluntary metrication in the US is the FPLA at
http://www.ftc.gov/os/statutes/fpla/outline.html.

There is a lobby (including global companies like Proctor&Gamble who
sell soap powder) trying to get such laws changed so that they can
reduce the costs of repackaging or relabeling. For them, the laws
forbidding voluntary metrication are a technical barrier to trade.

Buck Turgidson wrote:
My concern though, is if I can leave the GPS out-of-sight in a hot or cold car (e.g. under the seat)
without doing damage to the unit?

My short answer is "Yes".

My long answer is:
Electronic products often have standard temperature specifications at
fixed values. This makes it easier for component suppliers and
buyers. There is usually an operating range and a wider storage
range. I would expect to see values of -10, -5, or 0 degrees Celsius
for cold operation. I would expect to see values for hot operation of
55 or 60 degrees Celsius. Values in Fahrenheit are often merely
translations of a Celsius value in the specification.

I would expect a modern gps unit (e.g. Tomtom) to be specified to
*operate* between -10 and 55 degrees Celsius.In old money, that is 14
to 131 deg F. The storage range should be much wider.

Temperature extremes can reduce performance. It will probably reduce
battery life. A car on a hot day can exceed those values. The
temperature below the seat or in the trunk will be lower than on the
dash. However, as other have said, car radios survive and you probably
need to worry more about losing your gps by theft than by temperature.

Al wrote in news:3kN7k.5952$JL.1587@trnddc05:

On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:07:42 +0200, Sjouke Burry wrote:

wrote:
We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F. cuhulin

So? Learn what the rest of the world/science uses. 0 C is thawing ice,
100 c is boiling water.

Water, and other liquids, boils at different temperatures depending upon
environmental pressure (like altitude). If you're being so precise, state
the conditions under which the water is boiling.

The melting point is characteristic of the material and is not dependent
upon environmental conditions.

That is incorrect. It would be better to say that 'the melting point of
common substances' are not effected by the small changes in pressure seen
in the everyday environment.

On the other hand, hydrogen only becomes a solid under pressures never seen
in our common environment but metallic hydrogen may be a common material
found on some giant planets.
Water, on the other hand, is one of the few substances that expands upon
freezing and melts when under pressure. If it didn't, ice skates would not
work.
The pressure of the skate blade raises the melting point of the water so
high that the blade 'floats' on a thin layer of water 'melted by the
pressure' from the ice.

So, one must be careful NOT to say that 'the melting point... is not
dependent upon environmental conditions'.




--
bz 73 de N5BZ k

please pardon my infinite ignorance, the set-of-things-I-do-not-know is an
infinite set.

remove ch100-5 to avoid spam trap

In article 3kN7k.5952$JL.1587@trnddc05, Al wrote:
On Sun, 22 Jun 2008 20:07:42 +0200, Sjouke Burry wrote:

wrote:
We don't speak c (temps) in America.It is always F. cuhulin

So? Learn what the rest of the world/science uses. 0 C is thawing ice,
100 c is boiling water.

Water, and other liquids, boils at different temperatures depending upon
environmental pressure (like altitude). If you're being so precise, state
the conditions under which the water is boiling.

The melting point is characteristic of the material and is not dependent
upon environmental conditions.

;-)

Al
As an example, cooking something out of a box like RiceARoni requires more or
less water depending on the altitude. Living here in Utah at 4500 feet above
sea level rewuire nearly a cup more water to cook this in.

The rest of the world is wrong and I am right.It is F.
cuhulin