On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 22:50:33 -0700, Jeanette Guire wrote:

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From: Jeanette Guire
Subject: Did I buy the worst two Nikon cameras (or are they all this bad?)
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On Sat, 13 Oct 2007 16:51:09 -0400, Scott Schuckert wrote:

The battery doors are uniformly fragile on almost all digital cameras;
the Nikons you mention are perhaps a little bit worse than average. I
have experience with the 3100; with careful use it can be made to hold
up. But as you mention, the stupidity is that the door is not designed
to be easily replaced.

I found this wonderful thread while looking up how to fix my son's Nikon
Coolpix 3100 battery latch door camera body broken problem.

I latched onto the paperclip idea but nobody said which glue to use. I
bought Locktite superglue and Locktite epoxy but I think one or both of
those glues melted the camera body a bit. The camera body plastic is pitted
slightly and indented where the glue was wet but now has dried.

Does anyone know what the camera body plastic is made up of? The package
insert says not to use the Locktite Quick Set Epoxy on "polyethylene" or
"polypropylene".

Also, the articles didn't say WHAT SIZE drill bit to use so I used a #55
(0.052 inh) drill bit which seemed to work to drill the holes in the ribs
in the inside of the Nikon Coolpix camera body to hold the long legs of the
paperclip.

In addition, nobody said which dremel bit to use, and I munged up the
camera body by using one that was too large and unwieldy.

You can see a dozen step-by-step photos of my operation to recycle my son's
Nikon Coolpix 3100 camera at http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfixer/

Where can we put these instructions and photographs so that the next
thousand people with a Nikon Coolpix camera can fix it themselves?
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfixer/

Not only did the prior articles (which were wonderful, mind you) not say
which dremel tool to use, which drill bit to use, which glue and epoxy to
use, but they also didn't say how to adjust the paperclip on the Nikon
Coolpix 2100 & 3100 camera body to fit the Nikon Coolpix battery latch
door.

I photographed a three-step description for the next hapless Nikon Coolpix
owner.

STEP 1
Pull the paperclip out of the Nikon Coolpix camera about a quarter inch
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_007.gif

STEP 2
Gently close the Nikon Coolpix camera battery door on the paperclip
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_008.gif

STEP 3
Open the camera battery door so the paperclip is now automatically adjusted
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_009.gif

Even my glueing was a three-step process that wasn't described in the
otherwise wonderful notes on how to fix the Nikon Coolpix 2100 or Nikon
Coolpix 3100 camera battery latch.

STEP A
I drilled two 0.052 inch holes in the inside ribs of the Nikon Coolpix
camera body for the legs of the paperclip and I notched out two spots for
the paperclip in the edge of the camera body.
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_004.gif

STEP B
I glued the paperclip in place with superglue on the Nikon Coolpix camera
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_005.gif
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_006.gif

STEP C
I added liberal amounts of epoxy for strength on the paperclip and Nikon
Coolpix 3100 camera body.
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_010.gif
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_011.gif

In the hopes of helping someone else with the Nikon Coolpix line of
cameras, what is the best way to post these photographs to help others?
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_012.gif

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:31:03 -0700, Jeanette Guire wrote:

In the hopes of helping someone else with the Nikon Coolpix line of
cameras, what is the best way to post these photographs to help others?
http://usera.imagecave.com/coolpixfi..._latch_012.gif

For the record, I had called Nikon Service Relations at 800-645-6678 and
they basically said that many people have the problem with the Nikon
Coolpix series battery latch door breaking and that it wasn't something
they cared about.

On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:31:03 -0700, Jeanette Guire wrote:

For the record, I had called Nikon Service Relations at 800-645-6678
and they basically said that many people have the problem with the
Nikon Coolpix series battery latch door breaking and that it wasn't
something they cared about.

This is perhaps a good reason for not owning a Nikon camera. Canon seems to
have a better attitude -- at least about their SLRs. (You can reach Customer
Service on Saturdays. Even early in the evening.)

It's worth noting that manufacturers are legally obliged to provide
"mechanical" replacement parts for at least three years after a product is
discontinued. The availability of parts _implies_ the availability of
service (though there seems to be no guarantee of _that_).

I'd suggest you get the necessary part and have an independent service shop
fix it -- though the cost might be more than you would care to pay.

Even better, I suggest you contact the Federal Trade Commission and file a
complaint.

By the way, the reason LocTite is not to be used on certain plastics is
because it's an anaerobic glue -- it sets in the absence of oxygen. Those
plastics allow oxygen to pass, and the glue won't harden.

"William Sommerwerck" wrote in message
. ..

I'd suggest you get the necessary part and have an independent service
shop fix it -- though the cost might be more than you would care to pay.

PS: Pardon my stupidity in not having first looked carefully at the photos.
The "part" is a major chunk of the body, and is not easily replaceable.

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:31:11 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I'd suggest you get the necessary part and have an independent service
shop fix it -- though the cost might be more than you would care to pay.

PS: Pardon my stupidity in not having first looked carefully at the photos.
The "part" is a major chunk of the body, and is not easily replaceable.

I was going to mention that.

Not only is the "part" the camera body, but it's guaranteed to break given
the stresses on a little tiny loop of plastic.

Why couldn't Nikon have designed the latch better?
Is Nikon that stupid?

And why didn't the legion of reviewers for the Nikon Coolpix series notice
this? Are THEY that stupid?

Or is it just me?

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 14:05:12 GMT, Jeanette Guire wrote:

And why didn't the legion of reviewers for the Nikon Coolpix series notice
this? Are THEY that stupid?

I partially blame the reviewers like dpreview and Steve's DigiCams who
never told us the camera they were touting so blatantly would be a brick
within a year due to Nikon's poor engineering.
http://www.steves-digicams.com/2003_...nikon3100.html

I have totally lost my faith in at least the two reviewers I trusted
- Dpreview
- Steve's DigiCams

I guess the next question is whether or not there are ANY reliable &
reputable camera reviwers out there who actually test the cameras for more
than a day or two & report accurately on such obvious mechanical flaws?

In article ,
Jeanette Guire wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:31:11 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I'd suggest you get the necessary part and have an independent service
shop fix it -- though the cost might be more than you would care to pay.

PS: Pardon my stupidity in not having first looked carefully at the photos.
The "part" is a major chunk of the body, and is not easily replaceable.

I was going to mention that.

Not only is the "part" the camera body, but it's guaranteed to break given
the stresses on a little tiny loop of plastic.

Why couldn't Nikon have designed the latch better?
Is Nikon that stupid?

And why didn't the legion of reviewers for the Nikon Coolpix series notice
this? Are THEY that stupid?

Or is it just me?

You know, even intelligent people make mistakes. Nikon fixed the problem
in a later iteration of the camera, as you yourself pointed out. If
you're so smart, how come *you* didn't see it as a design weakness
before you bought two of them?

Have you ever seen the show "Engineering Disasters?" Things that men
build that are a lot more significant than a cheap dime store camera, do
break. It seems to me you're milking this one for a lot more attention
than it's worth. Be glad you fixed it, and get back to something
important in your life.

"Jeanette Guire" wrote in message
et...
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 03:31:11 -0700, William Sommerwerck wrote:

I'd suggest you get the necessary part and have an independent
service
shop fix it -- though the cost might be more than you would care
to pay.

PS: Pardon my stupidity in not having first looked carefully at the
photos.
The "part" is a major chunk of the body, and is not easily
replaceable.

I was going to mention that.

Not only is the "part" the camera body, but it's guaranteed to break
given
the stresses on a little tiny loop of plastic.

Why couldn't Nikon have designed the latch better?
Is Nikon that stupid?

And why didn't the legion of reviewers for the Nikon Coolpix series
notice
this? Are THEY that stupid?

Or is it just me?

Aha!

William Sommerwerck wrote:
On Sun, 14 Oct 2007 23:31:03 -0700, Jeanette Guire wrote:

For the record, I had called Nikon Service Relations at 800-645-6678
and they basically said that many people have the problem with the
Nikon Coolpix series battery latch door breaking and that it wasn't
something they cared about.

This is perhaps a good reason for not owning a Nikon camera. Canon seems to
have a better attitude -- at least about their SLRs. (You can reach Customer
Service on Saturdays. Even early in the evening.)

There are a couple of advantages to Canon. First, their designs seem to
be more rugged, even the plastic ones. This is because Canon is more of
an engineering company than a marketing company.

Second, Nikon U.S.A. is really strict about not honoring the warranty on
Nikon products purchased outside the U.S.A., while Canon doesn't make a
big deal about it. Nikon U.S.A. won't even fix products purchased
outside the country when the owner is willing to pay for the repair.
It's their way of fighting gray-market goods, but it does cause problems
for owners that have bought Nikon products outside the U.S..

It's worth noting that manufacturers are legally obliged to provide
"mechanical" replacement parts for at least three years after a product is
discontinued. The availability of parts _implies_ the availability of
service (though there seems to be no guarantee of _that_).

The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks. Unless the entire camera body is
considered a "part."

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS
wrote:

There are a couple of advantages to Canon. First, their designs seem to
be more rugged, even the plastic ones. This is because Canon is more of
an engineering company than a marketing company.

Maybe. However, they're not so wonderful about fixing what few
engineering mistakes Canon does make. For example, the Error 18
problem which plagues their bottom of the line cameras:
http://www.e18error.com
This has actually been a benifit to me as I've been buying Canon
cameras that display Error 18 and repairing them. Clean out the sand,
un-jam the lens drive gears, and it's as good as ummm... used.

Second, Nikon U.S.A. is really strict about not honoring the warranty on
Nikon products purchased outside the U.S.A., while Canon doesn't make a
big deal about it.

Canon is marginal at honoring the warranty on bottom of the line
cameras. Two of the cameras I've fixed that displayed E18 were well
within the warranty period. Both were S510's. The authorized repair
center claimed that it was abused by the customer and therefore was
not covered under warranty. This may have been true, but I was able
to fix one by simply tinkering with the partly extended lens, and the
other by tearing it apart and removing some accumulated dust that was
jamming the gears.

Incidentally, I own a Canon A70, S510, A40, and just ordered a new
S5-IS. On the computer front, I really like Canon printers.



--
# Jeff Liebermann 150 Felker St #D Santa Cruz CA 95060
# 831-336-2558
# http://802.11junk.com
# http://www.LearnByDestroying.com AE6KS

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS wrote:
The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks.

SMS is right. This tiny flimsy piece of plastic holding the stress of the
battery door is part of the body of the camera. So when it eventually
breaks (within weeks in some cases, within a year in others - but given the
design, it just has to break sooner rather than later) - the camera is
kaput.

Now, I wonder why Nikon didn't just put a paperclip-like metal pin in the
camera body. It would have cost pennies (how much can it cost) per camera
and they'd not have the ruined reputation that the entire coolpix series
has now.

Nobody who ever owned these coolpix cameras would ever trust Nikon again.

SMS wrote:
Second, Nikon U.S.A. is really strict about not honoring the warranty on
Nikon products purchased outside the U.S.A., while Canon doesn't make a
big deal about it. Nikon U.S.A. won't even fix products purchased
outside the country when the owner is willing to pay for the repair.

They also won't sell parts for the repair by a third party. The one exception
is that if you were a resident of the country you bought the camera in when
you bought it, they will honor the warranty.

Geoff.

--
Geoffrey S. Mendelson, Jerusalem, Israel N3OWJ/4X1GM
IL Voice: (07)-7424-1667 U.S. Voice: 1-215-821-1838
Visit my 'blog at http://geoffstechno.livejournal.com/

In article ,
Jeanette Guire wrote:

On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS wrote:
The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks.

SMS is right. This tiny flimsy piece of plastic holding the stress of the
battery door is part of the body of the camera. So when it eventually
breaks (within weeks in some cases, within a year in others - but given the
design, it just has to break sooner rather than later) - the camera is
kaput.

Now, I wonder why Nikon didn't just put a paperclip-like metal pin in the
camera body. It would have cost pennies (how much can it cost) per camera
and they'd not have the ruined reputation that the entire coolpix series
has now.

Nobody who ever owned these coolpix cameras would ever trust Nikon again.

Good lord, woman, STFU already. No one who's ever listened to you drone
on and on and on about this obscenely trivial issue you're having would
ever want to hear another peep out of you.

Jeanette Guire wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS wrote:
The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks.

SMS is right. This tiny flimsy piece of plastic holding the stress of the
battery door is part of the body of the camera. So when it eventually
breaks (within weeks in some cases, within a year in others - but given the
design, it just has to break sooner rather than later) - the camera is
kaput.

Now, I wonder why Nikon didn't just put a paperclip-like metal pin in the
camera body. It would have cost pennies (how much can it cost) per camera
and they'd not have the ruined reputation that the entire coolpix series
has now.

The body is injection molded, they are not going to start adding bits of
steel which would add significantly to the production cost. The big
mistake they made was to make the part that is most likely to break a
non-replaceable part.

For all the complaints about the iPhone, at least they have no flimsy
doors over battery compartments or memory slots. They have no buttons
that will break after extended use.

"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeanette Guire wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS wrote:
The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks.

SMS is right. This tiny flimsy piece of plastic holding the stress of the
battery door is part of the body of the camera. So when it eventually
breaks (within weeks in some cases, within a year in others - but given
the
design, it just has to break sooner rather than later) - the camera is
kaput.

Now, I wonder why Nikon didn't just put a paperclip-like metal pin in the
camera body. It would have cost pennies (how much can it cost) per camera
and they'd not have the ruined reputation that the entire coolpix series
has now.

The body is injection molded, they are not going to start adding bits of
steel which would add significantly to the production cost. The big
mistake they made was to make the part that is most likely to break a
non-replaceable part.

For all the complaints about the iPhone, at least they have no flimsy
doors over battery compartments or memory slots. They have no buttons that
will break after extended use.

Well the touch screen is a giant array of buttons so there is potential for
them to stop working.

Mike

Michael Kennedy wrote:
"SMS" wrote in message
...
Jeanette Guire wrote:
On Mon, 15 Oct 2007 17:12:34 -0700, SMS wrote:
The problem is that it's not the battery door that breaks, it's the
whole camera body that breaks.
SMS is right. This tiny flimsy piece of plastic holding the stress of the
battery door is part of the body of the camera. So when it eventually
breaks (within weeks in some cases, within a year in others - but given
the
design, it just has to break sooner rather than later) - the camera is
kaput.

Now, I wonder why Nikon didn't just put a paperclip-like metal pin in the
camera body. It would have cost pennies (how much can it cost) per camera
and they'd not have the ruined reputation that the entire coolpix series
has now.
The body is injection molded, they are not going to start adding bits of
steel which would add significantly to the production cost. The big
mistake they made was to make the part that is most likely to break a
non-replaceable part.

For all the complaints about the iPhone, at least they have no flimsy
doors over battery compartments or memory slots. They have no buttons that
will break after extended use.

Well the touch screen is a giant array of buttons so there is potential for
them to stop working.

Not it isn't. There are no mechanical buttons in the iPhone. I've been
to manufacturing sites for items like cell phones and PDAs. The "button
tree" is something that is almost guaranteed to be the first part inside
to fail.

In article , SMS
wrote:

Well the touch screen is a giant array of buttons so there is potential for
them to stop working.

Not it isn't. There are no mechanical buttons in the iPhone.

wrong. there are five mechanical buttons on the iphone.