There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work.
I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with lead-free,
no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of brands/
types would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

In article .com,
wrote:
There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work. I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with
lead-free, no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of
brands/ types would be highly appreciated.

Used leaded.

--
*Marriage changes passion - suddenly you're in bed with a relative*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

wrote in message
oups.com...
There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work.
I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with lead-free,
no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of brands/
types would be highly appreciated.
Thanks


Depends on whether you are located within a geographical area subject to the
RoHS regulations, whether you are exporting to, or taking repairs from any
such area, and whether anything you build or repair is for your own use, or
for commercial gain. There are also some (unresolved) possible metalurgical
issues with regard to whether older equipment, manufactured in leaded
solder, should be repaired using lead-free solder. There are several recent
threads on here regarding lead-free solder, which may serve to further
enlighten you if you hunt them down. In general, lead-free, which has been
forced on the manufacturing sector as a result of dubious eco issues, is not
much liked by the repair fraternity, as it has led us to experience many
more bad joints - which are often very much harder to locate than if they
had occured in a leaded solder environment - than we had been seeing in
recent years. Perhaps if you can let us know a bit more about what exactly
your operation is likely to involve in terms of technology - surface mount
or thru' hole - whether we are talking primarily new build, or repair or a
mix of both, and whether equipment for repair is likely to be up to date
(post June 2006) or older stuff, we might be able to offer you better advice
on solders, fluxes and tools that will be suitable for you.

Arfa

Thanks for the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks


On Jun 1, 2:00 am, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com...

There are many choices when choosing asolderfor repair and original
PCB work.
I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with lead-free,
no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of brands/
types would be highly appreciated.
Thanks

Depends on whether you are located within a geographical area subject to the
RoHS regulations, whether you are exporting to, or taking repairs from any
such area, and whether anything you build or repair is for your own use, or
for commercial gain. There are also some (unresolved) possible metalurgical
issues with regard to whether older equipment, manufactured in leadedsolder, should be repaired using lead-freesolder. There are several recent
threads on here regarding lead-freesolder, which may serve to further
enlighten you if you hunt them down. In general, lead-free, which has been
forced on the manufacturing sector as a result of dubious eco issues, is not
much liked by the repair fraternity, as it has led us to experience many
more bad joints - which are often very much harder to locate than if they
had occured in a leadedsolderenvironment - than we had been seeing in
recent years. Perhaps if you can let us know a bit more about what exactly
your operation is likely to involve in terms of technology - surface mount
or thru' hole - whether we are talking primarily new build, or repair or a
mix of both, and whether equipment for repair is likely to be up to date
(post June 2006) or older stuff, we might be able to offer you better advice
on solders, fluxes and tools that will be suitable for you.

Arfa

In article .com,
wrote:

Thanks for the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks


We're not here to write essays for your amusement. Do your own homework,
and if you have specific questions, why, step right up and ask.

Who the hell are you to speak for the USENET community?
This is a discussion forum where people engage in discussion about
relevant topics. If you don't want to engage in discussion on this
thread, then don't read it.
This is not a forum for you to project your childhood issues towards
others.
Never did I ask anyone to write an essay. A link to material or other
posts would be sufficient. The specific question is in the my original
post regarding the disadvantages of no-clean and water-soluble fluxes
from experience.



On Jun 1, 3:30 pm, Smitty Two wrote:
In article .com,

wrote:
Thanks for the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks

We're not here to write essays for your amusement. Do your own homework,
and if you have specific questions, why, step right up and ask.

wrote in message
oups.com...
Thanks for the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks


Again, it depends on what you are intending doing. My main line of work
involves repairs to existing equipment. For this I use both leaded and
lead-free solders of the multicore varieties - that is bog standard
off-the-shelf wire solder, with multiple built in cores of flux, that are
predominantly rosin. These tend to leave the customary brown residue behind
them, which is claimed by the manufacturers to not require cleaning off.
However, I always do just to make the job look tidier. Many many years ago,
my apprentice mentor told me that the only way you should be able to tell if
a component has been replaced, is if the soldering is *better* than the
manufacturer's original. For this reason, and this reason only, I always
clean the board after doing any soldering work on it. For this, I use a a
product called De-Flux 160 from Servisol.

I do build the occasional one off piece of equipment, sometimes for a
customer, sometimes for myself, and I just use the same solder for the job.
I have been doing this for 40 odd years now since I was a kid, and have
never had a problem. So if you are just going to be repairing, with the
occasional new build job, don't worry too much about fluxes. Any pre-fluxed
solder wire that is sold as being suitable for electronic work will be just
fine. If you are going into production, however, then flux types become more
important, and there are production solder people on here who can better
answer you on this. Basically, as I said before, you need to tell us the
area that you are going into so that we may better advise you. As an aside,
if the work is going to involve surface mount repairs that will be done by
hand soldering, then you will need to have some liquid flux to hand. This is
essential if you want to do a reliable job. I use a product from Electrolube
for this, and have done for some years.

Arfa

Yours is the second recommendation I have seen for De-Flux 160 from
Servisol. Do you know where to find it in the U.S.?
The only distributors that seems to carry it are from the UK. Repair
work, I always used rosin core.
But for personal PCB projects, I prefer something thats easier to
clean where the results look neater. I have heard about long-term
reliability problems with no-clean and water soluable flux solders. So
I wanted to hear from more experienced people and their opinions of
these two types in regards to problems that were experienced.



On Jun 1, 4:55 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com... Thanks for the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks

Again, it depends on what you are intending doing. My main line of work
involves repairs to existing equipment. For this I use both leaded and
lead-free solders of the multicore varieties - that is bog standard
off-the-shelf wire solder, with multiple built in cores of flux, that are
predominantly rosin. These tend to leave the customary brown residue behind
them, which is claimed by the manufacturers to not require cleaning off.
However, I always do just to make the job look tidier. Many many years ago,
my apprentice mentor told me that the only way you should be able to tell if
a component has been replaced, is if the soldering is *better* than the
manufacturer's original. For this reason, and this reason only, I always
clean the board after doing any soldering work on it. For this, I use a a
product called De-Flux 160 from Servisol.

I do build the occasional one off piece of equipment, sometimes for a
customer, sometimes for myself, and I just use the same solder for the job.
I have been doing this for 40 odd years now since I was a kid, and have
never had a problem. So if you are just going to be repairing, with the
occasional new build job, don't worry too much about fluxes. Any pre-fluxed
solder wire that is sold as being suitable for electronic work will be just
fine. If you are going into production, however, then flux types become more
important, and there are production solder people on here who can better
answer you on this. Basically, as I said before, you need to tell us the
area that you are going into so that we may better advise you. As an aside,
if the work is going to involve surface mount repairs that will be done by
hand soldering, then you will need to have some liquid flux to hand. This is
essential if you want to do a reliable job. I use a product from Electrolube
for this, and have done for some years.

Arfa

wrote in message
ups.com...
Yours is the second recommendation I have seen for De-Flux 160 from
Servisol. Do you know where to find it in the U.S.?
The only distributors that seems to carry it are from the UK. Repair
work, I always used rosin core.
But for personal PCB projects, I prefer something thats easier to
clean where the results look neater. I have heard about long-term
reliability problems with no-clean and water soluable flux solders. So
I wanted to hear from more experienced people and their opinions of
these two types in regards to problems that were experienced.


I really don't know where you would find it over there. I had never really
thought about where they came from - I have just been using their products
here for years. I had a quick look on Google, and found several other
countries where it seemed to be available, so maybe someone in the U.S.
carries it. Try asking Servisol if they have a U.S. agent. Other than that,
there must be an equivalent product.

I have never really had anything to do with any water based or soluble flux,
but I have used no-clean formulations. These still leave a residue, it's
just that the manufacturers claim that the resisdue is stable and 'dead'.
However, I still clean it off, as I don't like the look of it on the board.
De-Flux 160 removes the flux completely with a tiny spray of product, and a
quick scrub with an old toothbrush. It does not touch any solder resist on
the board, which some solvents that I've come across, do. If you are doing a
large area, a slightly 'tacky' residue can be left behind, but this is
quickly and easily removed with IPA.

Arfa

Arfa Daily wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
Yours is the second recommendation I have seen for De-Flux 160 from
Servisol. Do you know where to find it in the U.S.?
The only distributors that seems to carry it are from the UK. Repair
work, I always used rosin core.
But for personal PCB projects, I prefer something thats easier to
clean where the results look neater. I have heard about long-term
reliability problems with no-clean and water soluable flux solders. So
I wanted to hear from more experienced people and their opinions of
these two types in regards to problems that were experienced.


I really don't know where you would find it over there. I had never really
thought about where they came from - I have just been using their products
here for years. I had a quick look on Google, and found several other
countries where it seemed to be available, so maybe someone in the U.S.
carries it. Try asking Servisol if they have a U.S. agent. Other than that,
there must be an equivalent product.

I have never really had anything to do with any water based or soluble flux,
but I have used no-clean formulations. These still leave a residue, it's
just that the manufacturers claim that the resisdue is stable and 'dead'.
However, I still clean it off, as I don't like the look of it on the board.
De-Flux 160 removes the flux completely with a tiny spray of product, and a
quick scrub with an old toothbrush. It does not touch any solder resist on
the board, which some solvents that I've come across, do. If you are doing a
large area, a slightly 'tacky' residue can be left behind, but this is
quickly and easily removed with IPA.

Arfa


Does the company have a website, and do they list MSDS (Material
Safety Data Sheet) for their products? These tell what chemicals are
used, in case of an accidentally spill and so that people using it know
if they have to worry about health risks. They are also required before
a chemical can be sold in the US.


--
Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to
prove it.
Member of DAV #85.

Michael A. Terrell
Central Florida

In article ,
Michael A. Terrell wrote:
Does the company have a website, and do they list MSDS (Material
Safety Data Sheet) for their products? These tell what chemicals are
used, in case of an accidentally spill and so that people using it know
if they have to worry about health risks. They are also required before
a chemical can be sold in the US.

Servisol is part of the CRC group.

I've given the URL of the UK site as the link to their US one appears to
be down ATM

http://www.servisol.co.uk/

--
*Don't sweat the petty things and don't pet the sweaty things.

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On 2007-06-02, Arfa Daily wrote:

wrote in message
ups.com...
I really don't know where you would find it over there. I had never really
thought about where they came from - I have just been using their products
here for years. I had a quick look on Google, and found several other
countries where it seemed to be available, so maybe someone in the U.S.
carries it. Try asking Servisol if they have a U.S. agent. Other than that,
there must be an equivalent product.

For rosin, we've tried various products, and ultimately concluded that
none of them worked any better than the gallon of 99% isopropanol that
we could get for $25 and put in a $1 spray bottle.

Water-clean generally removes well with hot water as advertised. We
consider no-clean essentially unremovable - it always leaves that white
residue unless you scrub it with a brush.

Somebody mentioned long-term problems with water clean, but we haven't
found any so far.

wrote in message
ups.com...
Yours is the second recommendation I have seen for De-Flux 160 from
Servisol. Do you know where to find it in the U.S.?
The only distributors that seems to carry it are from the UK. Repair
work, I always used rosin core.
But for personal PCB projects, I prefer something thats easier to
clean where the results look neater. I have heard about long-term
reliability problems with no-clean and water soluable flux solders. So
I wanted to hear from more experienced people and their opinions of
these two types in regards to problems that were experienced.



I've used both no-clean and water soluable.
The no-clean still leaves crap behind. Just that it supposedly doesn't need
to be cleaned...but I clean it anyways. For cleaning - I use Techspray
Ecoline Flux Remover and a boars hair brush. Don't buy the tiny can with
the attached brush on the nozzle -- guaranteed to plug up within the first
30 seconds of use. Get the 10oz can or bigger.

I use water soluable on new boards. For the big stuff - we pop the boards
into a board washer. Hot water sprayed on and the stuff comes right off.
For small jobs -- hand soldered with the water soluable flux. Has the
consistancy of ear wax...yeucky stuff. Run under hot water, couple swipes
with a soft brush, rinse and dry - looks perfect. Just make sre everything
on your board is washable.

If you are using boards with washable parts - I recommend the water soluable
stuff. Much better results when things are cleaned up.

-- Ed


On Jun 1, 4:55 pm, "Arfa Daily" wrote:
wrote in message

oups.com... Thanks for
the detail on lead-free solder.
Can you elaborate on the different types of fluxes.
No clean, water soluble and standard rosin.
Thanks

Again, it depends on what you are intending doing. My main line of work
involves repairs to existing equipment. For this I use both leaded and
lead-free solders of the multicore varieties - that is bog standard
off-the-shelf wire solder, with multiple built in cores of flux, that are
predominantly rosin. These tend to leave the customary brown residue
behind
them, which is claimed by the manufacturers to not require cleaning off.
However, I always do just to make the job look tidier. Many many years
ago,
my apprentice mentor told me that the only way you should be able to tell
if
a component has been replaced, is if the soldering is *better* than the
manufacturer's original. For this reason, and this reason only, I always
clean the board after doing any soldering work on it. For this, I use a a
product called De-Flux 160 from Servisol.

I do build the occasional one off piece of equipment, sometimes for a
customer, sometimes for myself, and I just use the same solder for the
job.
I have been doing this for 40 odd years now since I was a kid, and have
never had a problem. So if you are just going to be repairing, with the
occasional new build job, don't worry too much about fluxes. Any
pre-fluxed
solder wire that is sold as being suitable for electronic work will be
just
fine. If you are going into production, however, then flux types become
more
important, and there are production solder people on here who can better
answer you on this. Basically, as I said before, you need to tell us the
area that you are going into so that we may better advise you. As an
aside,
if the work is going to involve surface mount repairs that will be done
by
hand soldering, then you will need to have some liquid flux to hand. This
is
essential if you want to do a reliable job. I use a product from
Electrolube
for this, and have done for some years.

Arfa

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .com,
wrote:
There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work. I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with
lead-free, no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of
brands/ types would be highly appreciated.

Used leaded.

Agreed, but if you're building here in Britain, get your supplies NOW,
before the nanny state takes them away from you. Leaded solder is about
to become a thing of the past. Bastids.

Cheers,
Pete.

In article Pine.GSO.4.60.0706111725070.14442@squire,
Pete Wilcox wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .com,
wrote:
There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work. I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with
lead-free, no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of
brands/ types would be highly appreciated.

Used leaded.

Agreed, but if you're building here in Britain, get your supplies NOW,
before the nanny state takes them away from you. Leaded solder is about
to become a thing of the past. Bastids.

Cheers,
Pete.

ah, maybe my future is in smuggling leaded solder into the UK and
selling it for $100/lb.

have you guys gone unleaded for military applications?

In article Pine.GSO.4.60.0706111725070.14442@squire, Pete Wilcox wrote:

On Fri, 1 Jun 2007, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article .com,
wrote:
There are many choices when choosing a solder for repair and original
PCB work. I am looking to understand any issues or compromises with
lead-free, no-clean or water-soluble flux solders. Recommendations of
brands/ types would be highly appreciated.

Used leaded.

Agreed, but if you're building here in Britain, get your supplies NOW,
before the nanny state takes them away from you. Leaded solder is about
to become a thing of the past. Bastids.

But are they really concerned with the disposal of all the leaded stuff
out there right now? Here, just about everything gets dumped into the garbage.
I tried to find a place to get some hazardous liquid disposed of, and there was noplace
near my home. They said there may be a place to take it once a year, but
I quickly forgot about that idea. I just threw away a half gallon sized capicitor,
which I hope did not contain PCB. I would like to get rid of the Chloradane I have, but
maybe I should use it around the house, or send it to Canada. I understand
they still have it for sale.

greg

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, Smitty Two wrote:

ah, maybe my future is in smuggling leaded solder into the UK and
selling it for $100/lb.

Har! You may be right. I'd buy it, but I've already laid in a good
enough stock to see me through to retirement!

have you guys gone unleaded for military applications?

Dunno. I work for a university; very little call for milspec stuff around
here.

Cheers,
Pete.

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

have you guys gone unleaded for military applications?

Avionics, military, (and possibly medical), all have
exemptions afaik. Reliability reasons.

--
Tony Williams.

On Mon, 11 Jun 2007, GregS wrote:

But are they really concerned with the disposal of all the leaded stuff
out there right now? Here, just about everything gets dumped into the garbage.
I tried to find a place to get some hazardous liquid disposed of, and there was noplace
near my home. They said there may be a place to take it once a year, but
I quickly forgot about that idea. I just threw away a half gallon sized capicitor,
which I hope did not contain PCB. I would like to get rid of the Chloradane I have, but
maybe I should use it around the house, or send it to Canada. I understand
they still have it for sale.

Waste recycling sites are becoming more common here, (Or "Civic amenity
centres" to give them their proper designated title) but they've got a
ways to go yet. Leaded circuit boards, old PC's, hi-fi's and whatnot are
just dumped in with the "metal" junk. Plastics, paper/cardboard, wood,
"green" waste and earth/rock/ceramic waste are seperated out and dealt
with individually, and the workers, Gawd bless 'em, are diligent in
ensuring that "customers" put the right stuff in the right skip. But
IMHO, it's too little, too late, and it doesn't do anything to stop Johnny
Householder from chucking out anything he likes with his regular trash
collection. Ye Gods, I haven't had a good rant for ages. I feel much
better now.

Cheers,
Pete.

In article ,
Tony Williams wrote:

In article
,
Smitty Two wrote:

have you guys gone unleaded for military applications?

Avionics, military, (and possibly medical), all have
exemptions afaik. Reliability reasons.

Well, then wouldn't the "good stuff" still be easy to get? Or do you
have to prove that you're a supplier to one of the exempt industries to
buy it? Just curious.

On Tue, 12 Jun 2007, Smitty Two wrote:

In article ,
Tony Williams wrote:

Avionics, military, (and possibly medical), all have
exemptions afaik. Reliability reasons.

Well, then wouldn't the "good stuff" still be easy to get?

Oh, it still is. But only "while stocks last."

Or do you have to prove that you're a supplier to one of the exempt
industries to buy it? Just curious.

Could well be, but I don't know for sure. Creosote's an interesting
parallel, though. If you're trade, you can still get it from suppliers,
but Johnny Householder can't get the stuff from retail outlets any more
because Nanny says it's bad for you. Sorry, I swear I won't inflict
another rant on s.e.m. for at least another month!

Cheers,
Pete.

In article Pine.GSO.4.60.0706111725070.14442@squire,
Pete Wilcox wrote:
Used leaded.

Agreed, but if you're building here in Britain, get your supplies NOW,
before the nanny state takes them away from you. Leaded solder is about
to become a thing of the past. Bastids.

Where did you get this information? As far as I know there is no intention
to stop the sales of leaded solder for repair etc work. It will of course
be more difficult to obtain - but all the major electronics suppliers
still have it in all types. I'm not including Maplin as an electronics
supplier...;-)

--
*The man who fell into an upholstery machine is fully recovered*

Dave Plowman London SW
To e-mail, change noise into sound.

On Sat, 16 Jun 2007, Dave Plowman (News) wrote:

In article Pine.GSO.4.60.0706111725070.14442@squire,
Pete Wilcox wrote:
Used leaded.

Agreed, but if you're building here in Britain, get your supplies NOW,
before the nanny state takes them away from you. Leaded solder is about
to become a thing of the past. Bastids.

Where did you get this information? As far as I know there is no intention
to stop the sales of leaded solder for repair etc work. It will of course
be more difficult to obtain - but all the major electronics suppliers
still have it in all types. I'm not including Maplin as an electronics
supplier...;-)

RS, In-One catalogues, etc, are listing most non-ROHS-compliant
components/materials as "Available until stocks are exhausted." Pretty
sure leaded solder was in there with them last time I looked. Oh, yeah,
here ya go - Latest Farnell catalog, book 2, pp1032 - 1034. Awful lot of
red triangles in there! Then again, I've been wrong before. I'd be
delighted if this was the case in this instance!

Cheers,
Pete.