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Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
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#1
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
There are many web pages dedicated to emergency procedures to take if you
spill a drink into a laptop. But I don't find any describing what to do about remaining corrosion. I was given a laptop that had coffee (no sugar, I'm told) spilled into the keyboard. The owner turned off the power and removed the battery and drained the computer as best he could, but did not take any steps to rinse out the coffee. Some time later the computer quit. There is evidence of corrosion on pc traces, SMD component and connector leads: http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/27f71caf77.jpg I plan to soak the board(s) in a weak solution of dishwashing detergent and mineral-free h2o and dry for a few days. (Is there a more effective solution?) In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
In article .net,
DaveC wrote: There are many web pages dedicated to emergency procedures to take if you spill a drink into a laptop. But I don't find any describing what to do about remaining corrosion. I was given a laptop that had coffee (no sugar, I'm told) spilled into the keyboard. The owner turned off the power and removed the battery and drained the computer as best he could, but did not take any steps to rinse out the coffee. Some time later the computer quit. There is evidence of corrosion on pc traces, SMD component and connector leads: http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/27f71caf77.jpg I plan to soak the board(s) in a weak solution of dishwashing detergent and mineral-free h2o and dry for a few days. (Is there a more effective solution?) In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Thanks, I'll take a shot at this, but YMMV. We clean our newly minted PWBAs in a somewhat corrosive mixture of saponifier and distilled water. They're then rinsed in fresh distilled water. Occasionally they're left in the soap too long, or not rinsed well, and the nice shiny new solder joints end up dull and dark. I've cleaned gold contacts with liquid silver detarnish, but the best thing for corroded solder is a drop of (can you believe it?) liquid flux, and then reflow the joint. If you've got actual crystals growing, or other severe surface contamination, a stiff brushing (I use an acid brush with bristles cut quite short to stiffen them) should preface the reflow work. |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
DaveC wrote in message
news.net... There are many web pages dedicated to emergency procedures to take if you spill a drink into a laptop. But I don't find any describing what to do about remaining corrosion. I was given a laptop that had coffee (no sugar, I'm told) spilled into the keyboard. The owner turned off the power and removed the battery and drained the computer as best he could, but did not take any steps to rinse out the coffee. Some time later the computer quit. There is evidence of corrosion on pc traces, SMD component and connector leads: http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/27f71caf77.jpg I plan to soak the board(s) in a weak solution of dishwashing detergent and mineral-free h2o and dry for a few days. (Is there a more effective solution?) In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
Thus spake n cook:
Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? So, the board's toast? No reason to attempt repair? Opinions welcome. -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 11:41:19 -0700, DaveC Gave us:
In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Use a fine child's tooth brush on it while you are doing the water wash. BTW, if there are any transformers on the board, all bet are off. You would HAVE TO bake it or vacuum it out (the water). |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
On Sat, 22 Apr 2006 20:12:42 +0100, "n cook" Gave
us: DaveC wrote in message enews.net... There are many web pages dedicated to emergency procedures to take if you spill a drink into a laptop. But I don't find any describing what to do about remaining corrosion. I was given a laptop that had coffee (no sugar, I'm told) spilled into the keyboard. The owner turned off the power and removed the battery and drained the computer as best he could, but did not take any steps to rinse out the coffee. Some time later the computer quit. There is evidence of corrosion on pc traces, SMD component and connector leads: http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/27f71caf77.jpg I plan to soak the board(s) in a weak solution of dishwashing detergent and mineral-free h2o and dry for a few days. (Is there a more effective solution?) In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? The material PCBs are made from, regardless of the layer count, are hygroscopic and will absorb water. If he cleans it with water, he will need to bake it out at the very least. |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
DaveC wrote:
Thus spake n cook: Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? So, the board's toast? No reason to attempt repair? Opinions welcome. Toast. Not because of the above but because it stopped working whilst powered up with the contamination in place. The odds are that irreversible damage has been done. -- Sue |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
No...... clean it and use a conductive ink pen .. i have fixed many laptop
keyboards and mainboards using one of these .. you basically draw a new line on top of the old one with the pen which is silver conductive ink ... last i checked MCM electronics carries them .. i still have one from years ago and it is still half full ... hope this helps you out cheers .. "n cook" wrote in message ... DaveC wrote in message news.net... There are many web pages dedicated to emergency procedures to take if you spill a drink into a laptop. But I don't find any describing what to do about remaining corrosion. I was given a laptop that had coffee (no sugar, I'm told) spilled into the keyboard. The owner turned off the power and removed the battery and drained the computer as best he could, but did not take any steps to rinse out the coffee. Some time later the computer quit. There is evidence of corrosion on pc traces, SMD component and connector leads: http://www.hostmypic.info/uploads/27f71caf77.jpg I plan to soak the board(s) in a weak solution of dishwashing detergent and mineral-free h2o and dry for a few days. (Is there a more effective solution?) In preparation for examination and repair of any compromised conductors on the pcbs, what's the best way to remove (ie, halt) the green & black residue of corrosion? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? -- Diverse Devices, Southampton, England electronic hints and repair briefs , schematics/manuals list on http://home.graffiti.net/diverse:graffiti.net/ |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
Another factor to contend with on multilayer PCB's are the VIA's (some call
them feed-throughs) that rout traces through the board. If the metal has been etched out of the VIA by corrosive action, then you have to take a very small drill bit and clean out the thru-hole in the board an pass a small wire through and solder it to the traces, meaning a lot of work if many of them are bad. Also if the PCB is more than 2 layers it may be impossible to repair. Also if you have heavy soil on a board or it is contaminated with Glycol (CRT Coolant for PJTV's) you can wash it with an ammonia based cleaner then rinse with distilled water. Windex works wonders :-) Jammy |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
On Sun, 23 Apr 2006 15:49:06 -0500, "ampdoc" Gave
us: Another factor to contend with on multilayer PCB's are the VIA's (some call them feed-throughs) that rout traces through the board. If the metal has been etched out of the VIA by corrosive action, then you have to take a very small drill bit and clean out the thru-hole in the board an pass a small wire through and solder it to the traces, NEVER, I repeat NEVER "take a very small drill bit" to ANY of your vias. Adding and soldering the wire is fine. Use FLUX for that operation, NOT a friggin drill bit. That (drilling) would almost ensure that there will be detached layers. meaning a lot of work if many of them are bad. Also if the PCB is more than 2 layers it may be impossible to repair. Drilling the ****ing thing will surely produce that result. Also if you have heavy soil on a board or it is contaminated with Glycol (CRT Coolant for PJTV's) you can wash it with an ammonia based cleaner then rinse with distilled water. Windex works wonders :-) It's a laptop, not a CRT. |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake Charlie+:
...then coated with WD40 for about 30 minutes, compressed air again to remove most of the WD40 then baked in a warm oven for about 4 hours to flash off the remaining oil, repired some obviously corroded SM joints by flux/solder and iron reflow (under magnification!) and then reassembled. The point of the WD40 soak was to arrest any ongoing corrosive action, it is thin enough to wick anywhere the original liquid has gone. ... I fully appreciate your creative technique of halting the corrosion. This is a concern for me, and until your post, I wasn't sure how to address that (other than using flux + solder on accessible lead corrosion), especially that hidden beneath components. WD-40 -- while it may be effective in this application -- stinks! This is a laptop I'll be using (if I'm successful), which pretty much places my nose right above the logic board. Can't imagine smelling that awful smell for years. Can someone offer an alternative for WD-40 to arrest corrosion on PC traces and component leads? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
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#13
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
why not soak the board for 20 minutes in DR99 solutiom at a ratio of
5/1. After that bake the pcb for 30 minutes at 60 degrees and then, add a sprinkle of salt and garnish and serve with potatoes and side dish. |
#14
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake GregS:
if not, get some stuff at The Home Depot, CRC 2-26 Lubricant, almost no smell, its plastic safe, multi purpose, presision lubricant, improves electrical properties, as read on can. Really cheap too, but slightl more than WD-40. They also have a no residue electronic contact cleaner which is also cheap for a large supersized can. Thanks, Greg. I think WD-40 is great for most such applications (WD, I'm told, stands for "water displacer"), but if there's any chance I'll be sniffing that smell for years, I'll try the CRC route. General Q: these products are water displacers. The reason these products stop corrosion is that they remove all traces of moisture? After that, if the green stuff (corrosion) is not causing a short, the corrosion should not continue, as long as moisture is not reintroduced? Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#15
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake DaveC:
After that, if the green stuff (corrosion) is not causing a short, the corrosion should not continue, as long as moisture is not reintroduced? Should say: Then the water displacer product is evaporated (baked with high temperature). After that, if the green stuff (corrosion) is not causing a current path, the corrosion should not continue as long as moisture is not reintroduced? (It seems weird to post a "reply" to your own post...) -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#16
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
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#17
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
I can't say about its use on circuit boards, but my experience using
WD-40 is that it causes RUST. I donno what it is about WD-40, i've long speculated it displaced other oil, then slowly evaporated over months leaving the metal unprotected. I never knew "WD" meant "water displacer". Rust always seems to follow months after using WD-40, coating with other oil only seems to delay the rust. I've thrown every can of it away. This stuff is crap. Diesel makes an ok solvent and leaves a film. I'd rather use that if it works. |
#18
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
In article , the_blogologist wrote:
I can't say about its use on circuit boards, but my experience using WD-40 is that it causes RUST. I donno what it is about WD-40, i've long speculated it displaced other oil, then slowly evaporated over months leaving the metal unprotected. I never knew "WD" meant "water displacer". Rust always seems to follow months after using WD-40, coating with other oil only seems to delay the rust. I've thrown every can of it away. This stuff is crap. Diesel makes an ok solvent and leaves a film. I'd rather use that if it works. Stinks too. My cellar smells of kerosene and diesel which my furnace uses. There was some caveats to using WD-40. I got some info from a seemingly reliable source. There was speculation to having some silicone oil in there and some problems with aircraft wings. This is on my cleaner page. http://www.pitt.edu/~szekeres/cleaner.htm greg |
#19
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake Charlie+:
On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:35:30 -0700, DaveC wrote as underneath my scribble : Sorry nearly missed this reply as you started a new thread! WD40 as well as being hygroscopic has corrosion inhibitors built in to a self wetting very thin liquid - that is the whole point. Also the Some actual experience: I did a resurrect of a Sony MZ-R30 Minidisk Recorder/Player which had been dropped in seawater and this had stopped working immediately! This unit had been unwashed and returned around the world so had had about a month or more to corrode, seawater is unforgiving so I wasnt hopeful. I removed the 1/32" FG PTH 4 layer boards completely, then washed them in hot water, then blow dried with compressed air, you have to be sensible with this as physical damage is possible with compressed air, scanned them up to X10 for inspection then warmed boards (hot to touch) then coated with WD40 for about 30 minutes, compressed air again to remove most of the WD40 then baked in a warm oven for about 4 hours to flash off the remaining oil, repired some obviously corroded SM joints by flux/solder and iron reflow (under magnification!) and then reassembled. The point of the WD40 soak was to arrest any ongoing corrosive action, it is thin enough to wick anywhere the original liquid has gone. Worked like a champ ever since, about 3 years now. Your board has failed under power perhaps well after the event though and this points towards electrolytic corrosion and this may not be recoverable whatever you do, in a multilayered board. Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble! Charlie+ What do you mean by "Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble!"? -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#20
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
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#21
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake GregS:
What do you mean by "Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble!"? I'll tell you how I would call it. I have boards made, and they wash them with water for a short period, then they blow dry them. They set out and dry. If it was soaked in water for a few day's, I think that would spell real trouble. These boards didn't work anyway, so they had to be baked after the short washings. Water might very well get sucked into the layers and take a long time to dry unless baked. Other solvents may very well start to dissolve stuff. greg This is a *long* term project. I'll be letting the boards sit in the sun for days at a time (inside). Any soaking they get will be followed by more than sufficient drying times. Thanks, -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#22
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
DaveC wrote in
news.net: Thus spake Charlie+: On Mon, 24 Apr 2006 09:35:30 -0700, DaveC wrote as underneath my scribble : Sorry nearly missed this reply as you started a new thread! WD40 as well as being hygroscopic has corrosion inhibitors built in to a self wetting very thin liquid - that is the whole point. Also the Some actual experience: I did a resurrect of a Sony MZ-R30 Minidisk Recorder/Player which had been dropped in seawater and this had stopped working immediately! This unit had been unwashed and returned around the world so had had about a month or more to corrode, seawater is unforgiving so I wasnt hopeful. I removed the 1/32" FG PTH 4 layer boards completely, then washed them in hot water, then blow dried with compressed air, you have to be sensible with this as physical damage is possible with compressed air, scanned them up to X10 for inspection then warmed boards (hot to touch) then coated with WD40 for about 30 minutes, compressed air again to remove most of the WD40 then baked in a warm oven for about 4 hours to flash off the remaining oil, repired some obviously corroded SM joints by flux/solder and iron reflow (under magnification!) and then reassembled. The point of the WD40 soak was to arrest any ongoing corrosive action, it is thin enough to wick anywhere the original liquid has gone. Worked like a champ ever since, about 3 years now. Your board has failed under power perhaps well after the event though and this points towards electrolytic corrosion and this may not be recoverable whatever you do, in a multilayered board. Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble! Charlie+ What do you mean by "Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble!"? Some components will wick up chemicals and not work properly,or fail later,and the board itself may develop leakage,and any residue will attract and keep dirt. I've had 20+ yrs of cleaning electronics at Tektronix. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#23
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
DaveC wrote in
news.net: Thus spake GregS: What do you mean by "Whatever you do I would advise you against soaking a board in anything for a few days, imo that would be asking for trouble!"? I'll tell you how I would call it. I have boards made, and they wash them with water for a short period, then they blow dry them. They set out and dry. If it was soaked in water for a few day's, I think that would spell real trouble. These boards didn't work anyway, so they had to be baked after the short washings. Water might very well get sucked into the layers and take a long time to dry unless baked. Other solvents may very well start to dissolve stuff. greg This is a *long* term project. I'll be letting the boards sit in the sun for days at a time (inside). IMO,that is insufficient drying. At Tek,we put boards or complete instruments in a drying oven at 120-140 degF for *at least 3 days*,and the oven had a negative pressure to draw out moisture.(exhaust fan) You don't want to go higher than 140,or plastics may soften and warp(like TEK cam drums for switches) You would do better putting the boards inside your car and leaving it in the sun. The car's interior reaches 140degF. Any soaking they get will be followed by more than sufficient drying times. Thanks, -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
#24
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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Repairing corrosion damage to PCBs
DaveC wrote: Thus spake n cook: Wouldn't it be a multi-layer board with liquid conducted into the board by capillary action ? So, the board's toast? No reason to attempt repair? Unless the board has delaminated, the interior layers are darn near hermetically sealed in the laminating process. It is very unlikely that anything like coffee could penetrate a properly-built board. But, it sure can play hob with the outer layers, especially when the power is on. Connectors are also easy for liquids to wick into. I'd disconnect all the connectors, and some may be the flex-cable type that just presses a flex-print cable against the board, and clean anything there that needs cleaning. If glop got into the hard drive (usually under the keyboard!) that will likely be toast. The fans (if any) may have been glopped up, causing the delayed failure. Just tear it apart (it isn't working any more, anyway) and look for obvious problems. Gentle cleaning with alcohol and an old toothbrush, followed by a day of open-air drying should fix most fixable problems. Conductive glop getting between fine connections can pop chips, so it may not be salvageable. But, worth a try. Jon |
#25
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
Thus spake Charlie+:
Youll just do whatever you think, so why bother asking out for any advice in the first place! Your choices dont show much sense. Good luck with it. Charlie+ *Of course* I'll do what I think best. So would you. I ask questions here to gather information. I learn. I try to benefit from others' experience and (sometimes) mistakes. This "gauntlet" of possibilities "aims" my decision. But in the end, of course, the decision is mine. And that choice will be different from yours. -- DaveC This is an invalid return address Please reply in the news group |
#26
Posted to sci.electronics.equipment,sci.electronics.repair,alt.engineering.electrical
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
"DaveC" wrote in message news.net... Thus spake Charlie+: Youll just do whatever you think, so why bother asking out for any advice in the first place! Your choices dont show much sense. Good luck with it. Charlie+ But in the end, of course, the decision is mine. And that choice will be different from yours. You just proved his point, Dave. Why ask him if you admit from the start that in the end your choices will be different from his... *** Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com *** |
#27
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
I work for a very large computer company. At one time, we spec'ed our components and PC boards to withstand a cycle in a dishwasher with Calgonite detergent. Soaking a PC assembly will (like the poster mentioned) cause other components to absorb water. Bad thing. Aluminum electrolytics would likely take it the worst. PC boards are washed typically with deionized water then run through an "air knife" on a conveyor, then hot air dried during the manufacturing process. The problem you'll likely run in to is the keyboard membrane switches having contact problems but hey, what you have doesn't work so whadaya got to lose? I'd opt for a dishwasher cycle (including dry) then placing the board in a warm area for a while to evaporate any other moisture trapped. Problem is each button on the keyboard has a separate switch with a silicon rubber "spring" and each will likely need to be removed.and replaced. Not fun at all. b. |
#28
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WD-40 alternative for corrosion treatment?
wrote in
roups.com: I work for a very large computer company. At one time, we spec'ed our components and PC boards to withstand a cycle in a dishwasher with Calgonite detergent. Soaking a PC assembly will (like the poster mentioned) cause other components to absorb water. Bad thing. Aluminum electrolytics would likely take it the worst. PC boards are washed typically with deionized water then run through an "air knife" on a conveyor, then hot air dried during the manufacturing process. The problem you'll likely run in to is the keyboard membrane switches having contact problems but hey, what you have doesn't work so whadaya got to lose? I'd opt for a dishwasher cycle (including dry) then placing the board in a warm area for a while to evaporate any other moisture trapped. Problem is each button on the keyboard has a separate switch with a silicon rubber "spring" and each will likely need to be removed.and replaced. Not fun at all. b. Often the rubber "springs" are all one piece of rubber. -- Jim Yanik jyanik at kua.net |
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