Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.

"ian field" wrote in message
...
Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.



I used it in my Yaisu FT-101 35 years ago as a Rf compressor. The Yaisu
generated the SSB signal around 3 Mhz. I ended up replacing the final
tubes with industrial 6146s (6080 I think). The sweep tubes couldn't
take the increase in average power. Everyone thought I was running a
2KW linear when I switched the compressor on.

Here is one data sheet
http://www.hamradioindia.com/datasheets/mc1350.pdf

--
A man is known by the company he keeps- Unknown

Anyolmouse

"Anyolmouse" wrote in message
...

"ian field" wrote in message
...
Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.



I used it in my Yaisu FT-101 35 years ago as a Rf compressor. The Yaisu
generated the SSB signal around 3 Mhz. I ended up replacing the final
tubes with industrial 6146s (6080 I think). The sweep tubes couldn't
take the increase in average power. Everyone thought I was running a
2KW linear when I switched the compressor on.

Here is one data sheet
http://www.hamradioindia.com/datasheets/mc1350.pdf

There's no problem finding the datasheet - its the appnote I'm looking for.

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.

"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.

"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards, there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:23:45 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.


Thanks!

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:31:11 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards, there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.


You'll get clicks and pops. For audio compression an inverted Bipolar
device or a JFET will work *much* better.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:23:45 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its
possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.


Thanks!

My collection was much more limited than I thought - I don't have the
appnote I want.

There was no save with CutePDF either.

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson"
/Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
/Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's
not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually
tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a
spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a
DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards,
there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a
HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something
with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.

FWIF, about the same time I used the MC1350P for an RF SSB compressor an
article was published in one of the ham radio magazines showing how to
build an outboard audio compressor using the MC1350P. In order to get it
to work the author modulated an RF signal and compressed the RF and then
demodulated the RF signal and applied the resulting compressed audio
into the microphone jack. I found it much easier to compress the
transceiver's SSB modulated signal and then making sure the signal was
amplified linearly after it was compressed. The chip was designed for RF
applications in TV IFs, not audio.

--
We have met the enemy and he is us-- Pogo

Anyolmouse

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:23:45 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its
possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.


Thanks!


I found some TI appnotes, but very little motorola so far.

ftp://ftp.ti.com/pub/data_acquisitio...lication_Notes

"ian field" wrote in message
...

"Jim Thompson" wrote
in message ...
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:23:45 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
/Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson"
/Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now
you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but
lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so
I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its
possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the
URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.


Thanks!


I found some TI appnotes, but very little motorola so far.

ftp://ftp.ti.com/pub/data_acquisitio...lication_Notes



That part went to Onsemi? Try sending them an email. Who knows, might
hit the jackpot.

Cheers

On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


I've struck out with ON Semi, looks like their maintenance of old
Motorola AppNotes is very poor.

But they sent me this link...

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions...?type=AppNotes

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, CTO | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine. Sometimes I even put it in the food.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


I've struck out with ON Semi, looks like their maintenance of old
Motorola AppNotes is very poor.

But they sent me this link...

http://www.onsemi.com/PowerSolutions...?type=AppNotes

Thanks.

My ancient Mororola Selection Guide say that MC1350, MC1445, MC1545 and MC
1490 "use the same basic die with with slightly different test parameters"

Mostly different temperature ranges...

Perhaps this will help

Regards ........... Zim

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:23:45 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:22:25 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

Not so long ago I found a repository of Motorola's appnotes, now you've
told
me the number it will be easy to check the list for it.

Thanks.


Please share the link to the repository. I used to know it, but lost
it myself :-(

It was a webpage I found while I was searching for something else, so I
downloaded the appnotes and moved on.

One possibility is, I could zip the folder and post it here, or its possible
I may have used CutePDF to print the page - this usually lists the URL at
the bottom of each page.

Its on my other PC so I'll look when I'm at that machine.


It used to be

http://merchant.hibbertco.com/servlet/MtrlDeactServlet

but this was closed a few years ago.

RL

"Graeme Zimmer" wrote in message
...
My ancient Mororola Selection Guide say that MC1350, MC1445, MC1545 and MC
1490 "use the same basic die with with slightly different test parameters"

Mostly different temperature ranges...

Perhaps this will help

Regards ........... Zim


This help at all?
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-...-1/204-166.pdf

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/...SA00256652.pdf

On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:31:11 -0000, "ian field" wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned) I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards, there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.

I have done that with a MC1490, but getting the control loop to behave was
challenging.

"JosephKK" wrote in message
...
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:31:11 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned)
I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards, there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.

I have done that with a MC1490, but getting the control loop to behave was
challenging.

Care to share the schematic?

"ian field" wrote in message
...
I have done that with a MC1490, but getting the control loop to behave was
challenging.

Care to share the schematic?


Nobody seemed to check out my other post with two links.
OK, one was in Chinese but showed some resistive loads. The other had an
audio compressor.

here they are again
================
This help at all?
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-...-1/204-166.pdf

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/...SA00256652.pdf

"Oppie" wrote in message
...


"ian field" wrote in message
...
I have done that with a MC1490, but getting the control loop to behave
was
challenging.

Care to share the schematic?


Nobody seemed to check out my other post with two links.
OK, one was in Chinese but showed some resistive loads. The other had an
audio compressor.

here they are again
================
This help at all?
http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf-...-1/204-166.pdf

http://www.datasheetarchive.com/pdf/...SA00256652.pdf



Thanks.

On Sat, 30 Jan 2010 22:40:21 -0000, "ian field" wrote:


"JosephKK" wrote in message
.. .
On Fri, 22 Jan 2010 15:31:11 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 22:19:29 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" /Snicker
wrote in message ...
On Thu, 21 Jan 2010 18:18:21 -0000, "ian field"
wrote:

Is there an appnote for the MC1350?

TIA.


The appnote is AN545A/D, but I can't find it anywhere :-(

A cross reference says the following parts are "similar":

LM703LN, SN76600P, uA757DC/M, MC1490

Good luck!

The data sheet is pretty complete. What info do you need that's not
on the datasheet?

Thanks, I'll search on those numbers.

Most of the application examples use an inductive load (usually tuned)
I'm
looking for examples with resistive load.


From my vague memories of it... I helped design it (it was a spin-off
from the 60MHz military radar IF)... you need to be careful with a DC
load, otherwise you'll saturate the output differential pair.

What exactly are you trying to do that you want a resistive load?

They sometimes turn up 2 at a time on old 5&1/4 HDD logic boards, there's
already a couple in the parts drawer and I found a couple more on a HDD
board while clearing out a junk box.

Since I now have so many, I thought maybe I should try to do something with
them. My first thought was an audio compressor.

I have done that with a MC1490, but getting the control loop to behave was
challenging.

Care to share the schematic?


That was 25 years and many moves ago. I really doubt i still have it or
remember it well enough. I did some funny games with peak and average ratio.