Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental mentions of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental mentions of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Leftist weenies think that Letterman is hilarious with a degrading
"joke" about Palin's teenaged daughters. Wonder how funny they'd
find it if Letterman said something like, "Michelle Obama has a
big butt and a face to match" ???

I think that's a VERY funny "joke" ;-)

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor
feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental
mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on
the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of designing such a circuit
around discrete transistors and perhaps a little history on how/when the
circuit was developed.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:09 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor
feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental
mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on
the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of designing such a circuit
around discrete transistors and perhaps a little history on how/when the
circuit was developed.


When I was in high school (1955-1958) that configuration was already
in use in preamps. I even built one using Germanium transistors.

There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:09 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor
feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental
mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on
the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of designing such a circuit
around discrete transistors and perhaps a little history on how/when the
circuit was developed.


When I was in high school (1955-1958) that configuration was already
in use in preamps. I even built one using Germanium transistors.

There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.


If you mean with a circuit simulation programme, I don't have one.

The basic configuration and formulas would be handy if you have them.

I'm curious about the history because I think the circuit was developed to
get decent gain out of early low spec germanium transistors (by using 2 in a
single stage) without noise and distortion penalties. The circuit also
performs well with silicon and remained popular long after germanium fell
out of use.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:13:13 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:09 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor
feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental
mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info on
the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of designing such a circuit
around discrete transistors and perhaps a little history on how/when the
circuit was developed.


When I was in high school (1955-1958) that configuration was already
in use in preamps. I even built one using Germanium transistors.

There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.


If you mean with a circuit simulation programme, I don't have one.

No. I meant pencil and paper... loop and nodal analysis... understand
WHY it works ;-)


The basic configuration and formulas would be handy if you have them.

See above.


I'm curious about the history because I think the circuit was developed to
get decent gain out of early low spec germanium transistors (by using 2 in a
single stage) without noise and distortion penalties.

Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

The circuit also
performs well with silicon and remained popular long after germanium fell
out of use.


Yep.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 21:13:13 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:09 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 17:18:58 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote
in
message ...
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 16:08:47 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:

Does anyone know where I can find more info on the two transistor
feedback
pair (I think some people call it a "shunt series pair")?

Having spent much of Saturday googling I only found coincidental
mentions
of
the circuit in other articles - I had hoped to also find some info
on
the
history of the development of the circuit.

Can anyone help?

TIA.


I've known of it since I was a kid. For an advanced version see
MC1552/1553 on my website.


Thanks - I should have indicated that I was interested in audio
applications.


The MC1552/1553 is classic for such an application. Change the purely
resistive feedback to RIAA or whatever you're in need of.

What I'm looking for is more along the lines of designing such a circuit
around discrete transistors and perhaps a little history on how/when the
circuit was developed.


When I was in high school (1955-1958) that configuration was already
in use in preamps. I even built one using Germanium transistors.

There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.


If you mean with a circuit simulation programme, I don't have one.

No. I meant pencil and paper... loop and nodal analysis... understand
WHY it works ;-)


The basic configuration and formulas would be handy if you have them.

See above.


I'm curious about the history because I think the circuit was developed to
get decent gain out of early low spec germanium transistors (by using 2 in
a
single stage) without noise and distortion penalties.

Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

No doubt that's a possible configuration, but most I've seen take the O/P
from the second transistor's collector.

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

I'm not quite sure what circuit you're talking about.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1
AoE2, p.872.

This doesn't look like an emitter follower. The C1-R7-R3 path will lower
Zo, but the R5-R6 path is current feedback which will raise Zo.

What you're talking about sounds more like a solid state mu stage.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:33 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

I'm not quite sure what circuit you're talking about.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1
AoE2, p.872.

This doesn't look like an emitter follower. The C1-R7-R3 path will lower
Zo, but the R5-R6 path is current feedback which will raise Zo.

What you're talking about sounds more like a solid state mu stage.

Tim

Q2 IS an emitter follower, as far as the bias feedback is concerned.

The MC1552 architecture has less restrictions.

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

I love to cook with wine Sometimes I even put it in the food

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

I'm not quite sure what circuit you're talking about.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1
AoE2, p.872.

This doesn't look like an emitter follower. The C1-R7-R3 path will lower
Zo, but the R5-R6 path is current feedback which will raise Zo.

What you're talking about sounds more like a solid state mu stage.

Tim


The dreaded google books page did a "not responding" forcing me to
CTRL/ALT/DEL - "solid state mu stage" is another term I can put into
google - thanks.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:33 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

I'm not quite sure what circuit you're talking about.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1
AoE2, p.872.

That's the once-popular "GE circuit" mike/phono/tape head preamp. R5
was usually bypassed.

John

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


...Jim Thompson

"The Phantom" wrote in message
news
On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do
for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


...Jim Thompson


Google books crash my browser.

On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:04:42 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


It's not necessary to go to that fine a detail to get the basic
picture. Keep it simple, assume beta infinite as a starting point.
Later refine it. Students try to make things too hard ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Obama... Recklessness Cloaked in Righteousness

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:04:42 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do
for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


It's not necessary to go to that fine a detail to get the basic
picture. Keep it simple, assume beta infinite as a starting point.
Later refine it. Students try to make things too hard ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I was hoping to keep math to the barest minimum.

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:07:29 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:04:42 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do
for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


It's not necessary to go to that fine a detail to get the basic
picture. Keep it simple, assume beta infinite as a starting point.
Later refine it. Students try to make things too hard ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I was hoping to keep math to the barest minimum.


I assumed that ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Obama... Recklessness Cloaked in Righteousness

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:16:52 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:07:29 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:04:42 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do
for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


It's not necessary to go to that fine a detail to get the basic
picture. Keep it simple, assume beta infinite as a starting point.
Later refine it. Students try to make things too hard ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I was hoping to keep math to the barest minimum.


I assumed that ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Putting some numbers to it, it's not a very exciting configuration...
limited gain capability _unless_ you sacrifice temperature stability
of bias.

To see how simple it is to set up, just assume some starting point,
like emitter voltage of Q1 = +0.4V. Assume both Q1 and Q2 run at 1mA,
have Vbe's of 0.6V, and you want the collector of Q2 sitting at +3V.

Voila! All resistors, except gain setting resistors R1, R6 and R7,
are defined!

Now that bias is established, it's trivial to calculate AC performance
(left as an exercise for the student ;-)

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Isn't the definition of "totalitarian" when the government owns
significant manufacturing; and controls the major media outlets?

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 14:42:33 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:



Google books crash my browser.

Firefox doesn't crash for me. Doesn't everybody use FIrefox?

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message news
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 08:16:52 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 16:07:29 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Tue, 16 Jun 2009 22:04:42 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 11:58:20 -0700, Jim Thompson
wrote:


There's nothing magic about the circuit. Try analyzing it. If you
get bogged down, let me know.

How about an analysis of the circuit shown he

http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1

Pick some values for R1 through R7, and C1, and beta and re for the two
transistors (r_pi to be (beta+1)*re) and let's see if you get what I do
for
Av, Zin and Zout @ 10 kHz.

And, Ian, you should give it a try, too.


It's not necessary to go to that fine a detail to get the basic
picture. Keep it simple, assume beta infinite as a starting point.
Later refine it. Students try to make things too hard ;-)

...Jim Thompson


I was hoping to keep math to the barest minimum.


I assumed that ;-)

...Jim Thompson

Putting some numbers to it, it's not a very exciting configuration...
limited gain capability _unless_ you sacrifice temperature stability
of bias.


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google books?

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:

http://mozilla.osuosl.org/pub/mozill...p%203.0.11.exe

If you absolutely don't want to do that, post a suitably disguised, valid,
email address, and I'll email you the pages.

"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 09:46:54 -0700, Jim Thompson


Putting some numbers to it, it's not a very exciting configuration...
limited gain capability _unless_ you sacrifice temperature stability
of bias.

To see how simple it is to set up, just assume some starting point,
like emitter voltage of Q1 = +0.4V. Assume both Q1 and Q2 run at 1mA,
have Vbe's of 0.6V, and you want the collector of Q2 sitting at +3V.

Voila! All resistors, except gain setting resistors R1, R6 and R7,
are defined!

R2 and R4 aren't defined until you pick a supply voltage. How about 6
volts? And, until you pick a collector voltage for Q1, how can I determine
the emitter voltage (and R5) of Q2?

To make the DC calculations easier, and so I don't have to re-calculate DC
conditions if I want to change R6, I'm assuming a big capacitor in series
with R6, and a beta of 100 for both transistors.

I'm going to let R1 be 1000 ohms.

Now, give us your values.


Now that bias is established, it's trivial to calculate AC performance
(left as an exercise for the student ;-)

...Jim Thompson

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:36:03 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

I didn't. Use Firefox, and you will be able to print the page.

On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:36:03 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

As another alternative, I can send you a screen capture if you'll post a
valid email address.

"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
As another alternative, I can send you a screen capture if you'll post a
valid email address.

Wait, what? We're on ABSE here! Here ya go.

_The Art of Electronics_, 2nd ed., Horowitz and Hill, Cambridge University
Press, etc., p.872.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

I let the emitter current in Q1 and Q2 each be 1 mA.

This gives re of 26 ohms for each. I set beta = 100 for both Q1 and Q2.

I added a large (100 uF) capacitor in series with R5 (so I can change R6
without upsetting the DC conditions) and also let C1 be 100 uF.

Then I set:

R1 = 1000
R2 = 5000
R3 = 400
R4 = 3000
R5 = 400
R6 = 5000
R7 = 10 meg (initially)

I set the supply voltage to 6 volts, and applied a 10 mV, 10 kHz input to
the left end of R1.

I was interested in AOE's assertion that the Q1's overall voltage gain is
R6/R1. With the resistor values I've chosen, that value should be 5.

They don't say how they define "Q1's overall voltage gain", but if we take
it to be the ratio of the AC voltage at the collector of Q1 to the AC input
voltage, a SPICE analysis gives a value of about 3.27; a nodal analysis
gives essentially the same value--not very close to the value of R6/R1. I
initially set R7 to 10 meg so I could obtain a value for "Q1's overall
voltage gain" without any effect from R7.

AOE says that Q2's open loop gain is R4/R5. Spice and nodal analysis give
close to that value.

For the resistor values listed above, Zout = 2998 ohms, and overall gain =
24.69.

If R7 is reduced from 10 meg to 10k, then Zout = 1940 ohms, and overall
gain = 10.36.

On Sun, 14 Jun 2009 19:39:33 -0500, "Tim Williams"
wrote:

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
Not exactly. It allows a high value collector load on the first
stage, but low impedance output load, due to the follower. The
follower also provides drive to the feedback R without loading the
gain down.

I'm not quite sure what circuit you're talking about.
http://books.google.com/books?id=bkO...ult&resnum =1
AoE2, p.872.

This doesn't look like an emitter follower. The C1-R7-R3 path will lower
Zo, but the R5-R6 path is current feedback which will raise Zo.

Things aren't quite that simple. Using resistor values I gave in another
post, and with R6 and R7 both set to 10 megohms, the output impedance is
2998.98 ohms. Lower R6 to 5k and the output impedance decreases to 2998.26
ohms. Restore R6 to 10 megohms and lower R7 to 5k and the output impedance
decreases to 1842.7 ohms.


What you're talking about sounds more like a solid state mu stage.

Tim

Tim Williams wrote:

"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
As another alternative, I can send you a screen capture if you'll post a
valid email address.

Wait, what? We're on ABSE here! Here ya go.

_The Art of Electronics_, 2nd ed., Horowitz and Hill, Cambridge University
Press, etc., p.872.

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

[Image]

I used a simple Ziclai pair with two 2N2222 to get a preamp with BW of
30MHz, gain 26dB.

Maybe there are opamps that do it better.

Patrick Turner.

"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:36:03 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google
books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

I didn't. Use Firefox, and you will be able to print the page.



I loaded firefox and still can't see how to print a google books page.

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
As another alternative, I can send you a screen capture if you'll post a
valid email address.

Wait, what? We're on ABSE here! Here ya go.

_The Art of Electronics_, 2nd ed., Horowitz and Hill, Cambridge University
Press, etc., p.872.

Tim

Thanks.

Just for future use - how do I print a google books page, I have both
Firefox and IE installed.

On 18/06/2009 ian field wrote:

..
..
Thanks.

Just for future use - how do I print a google books page, I have both
Firefox and IE installed.

I don't think you can print it directly. You have to use "Print Scrn",
paste into a graphics program (I use IrfanView) and then save as an
image.

--
John B

"John B" wrote in message
. net...
On 18/06/2009 ian field wrote:

.
.
Thanks.

Just for future use - how do I print a google books page, I have both
Firefox and IE installed.

I don't think you can print it directly. You have to use "Print Scrn",
paste into a graphics program (I use IrfanView) and then save as an
image.

--
John B

So far I've not been able to match the result posted by Tim.

"ian field" wrote in message
news
So far I've not been able to match the result posted by Tim.

I basically did it the way he suggested. For readability and size, I saved
as 16 color (grayscale) GIF. PNG is good too (although my ancient image
editor doesn't support it!).

Tim

--
Deep Friar: a very philosophical monk.
Website: http://webpages.charter.net/dawill/tmoranwms

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:54:30 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
.. .
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:36:03 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
...
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google
books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

I didn't. Use Firefox, and you will be able to print the page.



I loaded firefox and still can't see how to print a google books page.

You can print what you see by clicking "file" in the top left of the
Firefox window and selecting print.

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:11:37 -0700, The Phantom
wrote:

On Thu, 18 Jun 2009 18:54:30 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
. ..
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 22:36:03 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"The Phantom" wrote in message
m...
On Wed, 17 Jun 2009 20:31:27 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


In theory, AC gain can be boosted by tapping R6 and AC shunting the tap
with
an electrolytic.

Is there any way I can print just that one page displayed by google
books?

Get the free Firefox browser; it won't crash:


Why did you answer a different question than the one asked?!

I didn't. Use Firefox, and you will be able to print the page.



I loaded firefox and still can't see how to print a google books page.

You can print what you see by clicking "file" in the top left of the
Firefox window and selecting print.



Neeerp! It prints that whole frame :-(

PrintScreen is the only way I know of, and it's crappy :-(

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

Isn't the definition of "totalitarian" when the government owns
significant manufacturing; and controls the major media outlets?

"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in message
news
So far I've not been able to match the result posted by Tim.

I basically did it the way he suggested. For readability and size, I
saved as 16 color (grayscale) GIF. PNG is good too (although my ancient
image editor doesn't support it!).

Tim

A much better solution has come within my reach - someone on
News:alt.binaries.e-book.technical very kindly posted the whole book for me.

On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:02:44 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in message
news
So far I've not been able to match the result posted by Tim.

I basically did it the way he suggested. For readability and size, I
saved as 16 color (grayscale) GIF. PNG is good too (although my ancient
image editor doesn't support it!).

Tim

A much better solution has come within my reach - someone on
News:alt.binaries.e-book.technical very kindly posted the whole book for me.


Mostly "PAR" and "RAR" files. How does one uncompress those?

...Jim Thompson
--
| James E.Thompson, P.E. | mens |
| Analog Innovations, Inc. | et |
| Analog/Mixed-Signal ASIC's and Discrete Systems | manus |
| Phoenix, Arizona 85048 Skype: Contacts Only | |
| Voice480)460-2350 Fax: Available upon request | Brass Rat |
| E-mail Icon at http://www.analog-innovations.com | 1962 |

All Hail King Obama, The Resurrected Messiah :-(

"Jim Thompson" wrote in
message ...
On Fri, 19 Jun 2009 19:02:44 +0100, "ian field"
wrote:


"Tim Williams" wrote in message
...
"ian field" wrote in message
news So far I've not been able to match the result posted by Tim.

I basically did it the way he suggested. For readability and size, I
saved as 16 color (grayscale) GIF. PNG is good too (although my ancient
image editor doesn't support it!).

Tim

A much better solution has come within my reach - someone on
News:alt.binaries.e-book.technical very kindly posted the whole book for
me.


Mostly "PAR" and "RAR" files. How does one uncompress those?


Apparently the PAR files are data recovery files but I've never been able to
figure out what use they are, normally if a downloaded file is corrupted I
try again and if that fails just move on.

The program I use to unpack RAR is Izarc (Free) seems to work on most (but
not all) archive files found on e-book.technical . You may occasionally find
Hjsplit files.

A very large collection of electronics books is re-posted from time to time,
just not at this time - the same is true of math books and to a lesser
extent chemistry.