My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
.. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids' were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes. It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
.. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on the right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
.. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors, condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with refrigerant.
thanks.



--
Posted via a free Usenet account from http://www.teranews.com

"theChas." wrote in
:

My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component
that was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and
attached module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious
of fuses. . . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a
very cold morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The
code readings are 'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used
one (top half of the carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I
had a foreign vehicle specialist work on it and he discovered both
'fuel mixture solenoids' were functioning properly and the 'empty
bowl' sensors were also okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running
about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine
heat is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I
try to start it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about
15-20 minutes. It also seems the more I try to start it,
unsuccessfully, it prolongs the 'wait' time before it starts.
Usually when I get towed home, it starts about one block from my
house. . . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment,
on the right fender well, that I believe may be a power
supply/stablizer for the computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected.
When it runs, it is a dream... when it stalls, it is a study in
patience.. . . . . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist
resistors, condensors, or other electronic components I can check out
by cooling with refrigerant. thanks.




sounds very much like fuel starvation or vapor lock. Next time it
happens, try loosening the gas cap. You may also have a faulty fuel
pump.

cheers,
chuck...

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:26:40 -0600, "theChas."
wrote:

My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component
that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and
attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code
readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of
the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign
vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids'
were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running
about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine
heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to
start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20
minutes. It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs
the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it
starts
about one block from my house.
. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on
the right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a
dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors,
condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with
refrigerant.
thanks.

How do you know that they "replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components."? Did you inspect the parts to see
if they looked new? And did you ask for the old parts back? I'll bet
if you did ask they would say "we chucked them in the bin" - old
story.

While I am not familiar with this particular vehicle I do know that
parts for them are difficult to obtain second-hand and very expensive
even if you can get them new from Subaru. Those components alone would
probably have cost heaps from Subaru - plus labour to fit - so if I
would be suspicious about replacements if they didn't cost a lot.

Here's what one owner of a Justy wrote in a UK forum;

"The most annoying fault has been the electronic ignition, because it
is impossible to know where the fault lies. Replacements from Subaru
cost in the region of £350, and scrapyard alternatives are incredibly
scarce. The closest I could get was an ignition for a 1000 cc Sumo
(The micro-van equivalent,) so I used a modified ignition from a 3
cylinder Triumph bike.

Not bad for £35, and it works perfectly, even when stressed."

If the motor cuts out instantaneously and doesn't cough and splutter
for a while before finally conking out, I would be suspicious of the
power transistor in the ignition module, or the trigger pick-up which
fires it. A fuel starvation problem can produce similar results but I
doubt that it would stop and then run for another 20 minutes before
conking again if it was a blocked filter or something like that.

I had a similar symptoms in my Mazda 626 2.5L several years ago and
that proved to be the ignition transistor. A replacement ignition
module set me back around $150.

On Fri, 17 Aug 2007 10:08:43 GMT, Ross Herbert
wrote:

It could be a faulty relay contact.....

Here is an intermittent electrical fault story about a Justy;

Lets take a 1994 Subaru Justy 3 cylinder that we repaired as an
example. This customer reported that each morning after being parked
all night, the vehicle would crank but would not start. The customer
went on to say that if the vehicle were cranked a second or third time
the car would start and be fine for the rest of the day. We had to
keep this vehicle for a total of six days because the symptom window
was so short and the time between windows was so long. What made
matters worse was the fact that on three of the days the car started
fine with no problem. Nothing to test on those three days! To make a
long story short, we were able to compile some interesting test data
from several of the mornings when the car would not start for that
first minute. When a car has a starting problem like this we generally
install a spark tester on one of the plug wires and we disconnect one
of the fuel injectors and plug in a noid light. Generally speaking, if
the car will neither spark nor run the noid light we start leaning
towards a crank sensor system problem. Hence you begin your
differential diagnosis. (Don't forget that some cars with a snapped
timing belt will show up as no spark and no illuminated noid light).
We found that while cranking their was no spark and no flashing noid
light. So now your thinking...timing belt or crank sensor right? Well,
not exactly. The solution became a lot closer when I was sitting in
the vehicle staring at the dash with the key on one morning after the
car would not start. While sitting their I heard a relay "ping" and
at that moment I noticed the check engine lamp popped on and I heard
the fuel pump run its two second prime. The lamp should have been on
as soon as the key was turned on for the bulb test but it came on
about one minute after the key had been on. Referring to Figs. 1 and 2
we could see in the schematic that the power for the ECM, check engine
light, coil, igniter, and the fuel pump came from what Subaru calls
the "ignition relay". The relay is a "dual contact relay" in which one
contact sends power to the coil and the igniter while the other
contact sends power to the ECM, check engine light and fuel pump
relay. We decided to hook up a volt meter to monitor the that relay.
When the car would not start the next morning our volt meter showed
that the one of the contacts in the relay, (wire WB), was fine as the
ignition coil had its 12 volt supply. The other contact in the relay,
(wire R) did not have power. This side of the relay supplies power to
the ECM and the fuel pump relay. A simple tap on the relay and the
power was their. A new relay resolved the problem. Most of us don't
think to bother looking at the check engine light on a car that
"cranks and won't run" but I have forced myself to make it a habit. We
recently had a late model Ford Explorer where the customer had an
intermittent "cranks won't run" complaint. Upon initial inspection of
the vehicle, one of the first things I noticed was that the check
engine light was not on at key on. A simple tap on the PCM relay in
the underhood relay center put the check engine light on and the fuel
pump was heard making its two second prime. I guess now I could say I
solved this with a little luck and past experience. Another faulty
relay.

"theChas." wrote in message
.. .
My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids' were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about
12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to
start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes.
It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on the
right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a
dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors, condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with
refrigerant.
thanks.

I have a 2001 Saturn L series that would not start intermittently. Cranking
was fine and fuel pressure was in spec but no smell of gas in the exhaust
while cranking with the no-start condition. Dealer couldn't get the problem
to repeat and was attempting to replace every sensor that they saw a code
for. I finally told them to put back all the original sensors and change the
crank angle sensor. Got over 1k miles since that and not a single hiccup. I
realize that intermittents are hard to diagnose but sometimes you just have
to make your best guess.
The definitive test for a bad crank sensor is to use a scanner to monitor
engine rpm during cranking. No RPM, bad crank angle circuit. Too bad that
the dashboard tach only comes to life after the engine starts. Would have
been helpful when I was stuck.

On 8/16/07 4:26 PM, in article ,
"theChas." wrote:

My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids' were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes. It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on the right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors, condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with refrigerant.
thanks.



A reply to your OTHER POST had some good advice. Have you fed some gas
directly into the carb throat? If not, do it to isolate fuel vs. electrical
problem.

If it appears to be electrical, temporarily put lamps, or suitably
current-limited LEDs, on the electrical points of interest so you can see
where you do and don't have voltage when the failure occurs. If you can get
wires through the firewall, I suggest you put the "lamp box" in the car
where you can immediately see them while coasting to a parking place.

Frustrating, isn't it?

Good luck.

Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes. It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
I had pretty much the same problem on my 1985 Cadillac Cimarron with a
V6 multi-port fuel injection and four speed manual transmission.There
was never a check engine light.

It turned out to be a clogged catalytic converter. It would not start
hot without a 45 minute wait but once it was running well enough for
the computer to get into closed loop it could deal with the problem.

John Ferrell W8CCW
"Life is easier if you learn to
plow around the stumps"

On Thu, 16 Aug 2007 17:26:40 -0600, "theChas."
wrote:

My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids' were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about 12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes. It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on the right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors, condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with refrigerant.
thanks.
Change the fuel filter yet?

"theChas." wrote in message
.. .
My shop had my Justy for 5 weeks and could not locate the component that
was 'droppping out'. They replaced the distributor, coil and attached
module, and a few other components. I am now even supicious of fuses.
. . .The 'check engine' light is usually on, unless it is a very cold
morning. The problem has been isolated to ignition. The code readings are
'fuel mixture solenoid'. I purchased another used one (top half of the
carb) 3 years ago, and it made no difference. I had a foreign vehicle
specialist work on it and he discovered both 'fuel mixture solenoids' were
functioning properly and the 'empty bowl' sensors were also
okay.
Initially, the car starts with no problems. But after running about
12
minutes, it quits. If I park it before it quits, the 'latent' engine heat
is enough to keep it from starting for about 15 minutes. If I try to
start
it after it has been parked, after a run, it takes about 15-20 minutes.
It
also seems the more I try to start it, unsuccessfully, it prolongs the
'wait' time before it starts. Usually when I get towed home, it starts
about one block from my house.
. . ..There is a transformer located in the engine compartment, on the
right
fender well, that I believe may be a power supply/stablizer for the
computer...Car is 4 speed, and not injected. When it runs, it is a
dream...
when it stalls, it is a study in patience.. . .
. . . I'm hoping to get info on any relays, ballist resistors, condensors,
or other electronic components I can check out by cooling with
refrigerant.
thanks.

I had a problem with bad starting and cutting out,
it wouldnt start while the key was in start and the engine turning,
but once the key was turned back to run it wld usually fire up if the engine
was still spining fast enough

eventually it wouldnt start at all and was then easy to track down,
it turned out to be a relay wich turns on the fuel pump etc
when it senses the engine is running fast enough or when starting.

it had a ne555 inside the relay, and there was an int6ermitent conection.

since it was replaced it never missed a beat.

Colin =^.^=