[Bill[_31_]]

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

[dpb]

Bill wrote:

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.
....

What size mortises? If they're deep and or narrow, the mortising chisel
can make life somewhat easier (of course, so can a chain or chisel
mortiser... ).

--

[RicodJour]

On Nov 2, 2:19*pm, Bill wrote:

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Yep, they take a licking and keep on ticking. I even use - don't tell
anyone! - a hammer sometimes.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

No problem.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

This is a no-brainer. It's not my money, and someone is asking me if
they need more tools...
Yes!

I believe your mean Narex, right? The Marples Blue Chip are an all
purpose chisel. A dedicated mortise chisel is superior for tough
chopping and deeper holes, but not as good for all around bench work.
Since you already have the Marples, start knocking some holes. If
they're sharp you shouldn't have any problem in soft wood.

R

[Bill[_31_]]

On 11/2/2010 2:39 PM, RicodJour wrote:
The Marples Blue Chip are an all
purpose chisel. A dedicated mortise chisel is superior for tough
chopping and deeper holes, but not as good for all around bench work.
Since you already have the Marples, start knocking some holes. If
they're sharp you shouldn't have any problem in soft wood.

R


That's just the kind of answer I was looking for. Thank you!

Bill

[alexy]

Bill wrote:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

As a couple of others have said, you CAN cut the mortises with the
Marples, and if you expect to do that only very infrequently, then go
for it. However, the mortise chisel is designed specifically for --
guess what? And it will do a much better job.

One of its advantages is stoutness, which some have mentioned --
prying out waste with a 1/4" mortise chisel is a lot different from
prying it out with a 1/4" general purpose bench chisel.

I think the biggest advantage to a mortise chisel is its profile,
which practically forces you to cut a rectangular mortise once started
correctly. (You can't see it in the pictures, but these have a tiny
amount of taper, which reduces jamming.) So I'd say go for the LV deal
(but then again, you are not using my credit card).
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

[Larry Blanchard]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 15:01:30 -0400, Bill wrote:

Since you already have the Marples, start knocking some holes. If
they're sharp you shouldn't have any problem in soft wood.


That's just the kind of answer I was looking for. Thank you!


If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. Here's a site with a
good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

[Upscale]

"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. Here's a site with a
good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

Or for you Lee Valley enthusiasts, their Sorby chisels which are the same as
the ones on the link above, but cheaper, surprisingly enough.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,41504,41533

[Bill[_37_]]

Upscale wrote:
"Larry wrote in message
If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. Here's a site with a
good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

Or for you Lee Valley enthusiasts, their Sorby chisels which are the same as
the ones on the link above, but cheaper, surprisingly enough.
http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,41504,41533



They are drool-worthy.. I will keep them in mind.

Bill

[Steve[_52_]]

On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, Bill said:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

Mortising chisels will make cutting mortises easier (but not
necessarily easy... take your time). A good set of waterstones are a
great investment for both your Marples and the prospective mortising
chisels -- and look at the Veritas honing guide for proper sharpening.
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...oningguide.htm

Sharp chisels speed the work and improve the accuracy of the cuts.

[[email protected]]

On Nov 2, 8:04*pm, "Upscale" wrote:
"Larry Blanchard" wrote in message
If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. *There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. *The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. *Here's a site with a
good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

Or for you Lee Valley enthusiasts, their Sorby chisels which are the same as
the ones on the link above, but cheaper, surprisingly enough.http://www.leevalley.com/en/wood/pag...=1,41504,41533

No. The Best Things Sorby Heavy Mortice chisels are stouter than the
Lee Valley Sorby Registered Mortise chisels. They are definitely not
the same chisels. Ones heavy duty, ones medium duty.

[alexy]

Larry Blanchard wrote:

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 15:01:30 -0400, Bill wrote:

Since you already have the Marples, start knocking some holes. If
they're sharp you shouldn't have any problem in soft wood.


That's just the kind of answer I was looking for. Thank you!


If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. Here's a site with a
good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

Or some heavier ones -- classic "pig-stickers" made with modern steel:
http://www.toolsforworkingwood.com/M...gory_Code=TBMC

But for just learning mortising, I'd vote for the smaller investment
of the Narex set Bill cited.

--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

[Upscale]

wrote in message
No. The Best Things Sorby Heavy Mortice chisels are stouter than the
Lee Valley Sorby Registered Mortise chisels. They are definitely not
the same chisels. One's heavy duty, one's medium duty.

I stand corrected.

[Bill[_37_]]

Steve wrote:
On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, Bill said:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a
while back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

Mortising chisels will make cutting mortises easier (but not necessarily
easy... take your time). A good set of waterstones are a great
investment for both your Marples and the prospective mortising chisels
-- and look at the Veritas honing guide for proper sharpening.
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...oningguide.htm

Sharp chisels speed the work and improve the accuracy of the cuts.

Looks like a handy tool. In the meantime, I've got a granite block, a
simpler honing guide, and $40 or so worth of wet & dry. I'm looking
forward to getting on with it (which in my own way I sort of am). I plan
to install some fluorescent lights soon.

Bill

[Jeff Gorman]

"alexy" wrote

I think the biggest advantage to a mortise chisel is its profile,
which practically forces you to cut a rectangular mortise once started
correctly. (You can't see it in the pictures, but these have a tiny
amount of taper, which reduces jamming.)

In a nit-picking mood I once gave thought to the value of this taper and the
way a chisel prccesses along the mortise.

For folk who are interested in fine points of technique, the outcome is at
http://tinyurl.com/2w49f7w

Jeff

--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

[Larry Jaques[_3_]]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 00:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:

Steve wrote:
On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, Bill said:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a
while back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

It crushes too easily for my tastes. Sharpness of the chisel is key.


I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

Mortising chisels will make cutting mortises easier (but not necessarily
easy... take your time). A good set of waterstones are a great
investment for both your Marples and the prospective mortising chisels
-- and look at the Veritas honing guide for proper sharpening.
http://www.onlinetoolreviews.com/rev...oningguide.htm

Sharp chisels speed the work and improve the accuracy of the cuts.

Looks like a handy tool. In the meantime, I've got a granite block, a
simpler honing guide, and $40 or so worth of wet & dry. I'm looking
forward to getting on with it (which in my own way I sort of am). I plan
to install some fluorescent lights soon.

Atta Boy, Bill. ScarySharp(tm) is where it's at. Just about any
honing guide will work well...once you know what it's doing and figure
out how to make it do that. Simply pay attention to detail.

--
Experience is a good teacher, but she send in terrific bills.
-- Minna Thomas Antrim

[alexy]

"Jeff Gorman" wrote:


"alexy" wrote

I think the biggest advantage to a mortise chisel is its profile,
which practically forces you to cut a rectangular mortise once started
correctly. (You can't see it in the pictures, but these have a tiny
amount of taper, which reduces jamming.)

In a nit-picking mood I once gave thought to the value of this taper and the
way a chisel prccesses along the mortise.

For folk who are interested in fine points of technique, the outcome is at
http://tinyurl.com/2w49f7w

Jeff

Very interesting. Thanks for posting that.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

[Larry Blanchard]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 23:16:12 -0400, alexy wrote:

If you ever should decide you need mortise chisels, be sure to get the
real ones. There are a lot of light duty "sash mortise" chisels out
there. The heavy ones keep getting harder to find. Here's a site with
a good picture - just page down to the "Robert Sorby Heavy Mortice
Chisels".

http://www.thebestthings.com/newtools/sorby_mortice.htm

Or some heavier ones -- classic "pig-stickers" made with modern steel:

Wow! I wish those had been around when I bought my Sorbys. Now I'm
jealous. Those are definitely the best mortise chisels I've ever seen.

I had thought of mentioning old pigstickers to the OP, but they aren't
that easy to find. Now we have a modern equivalent.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

[Mark Whittingham]

Lie Nielsen makes mortising chisels too.
JP

[Jim Weisgram[_2_]]

On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:19:11 -0400, Bill
wrote:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

I think the Narex are a great value.

I have some Marples Blue Chips. You can use the Marples with a mallet
but they aren't the best choice for mortising if you do a lot.

If you want to try chopping mortises in softwood with your Marples, by
all means do it. You should be able to get a respectable result, with
practice.

One advantage of the motise style chisel is that it won't twist as you
are chopping the mortise. And as you chop with the mortise chisel, and
lever out your waste, you won't need to spend time paring the
sidewalls if you chop and lever correctly. There are plenty of
examples on the Net for how to do that.

Compared to the steel in the Narex, the Marples edge will degrade
faster (according to published comparative tests, and assuming the
Narex mortise chisel steel is as tough or tougher than their bevel
edge chisel steel).

You should think about what sizes of chisel you need for hand
mortising. The general rule is the mortise width should be the same as
wall on either side. If you are working with 3/4" wood, you almost
always want the mortise to be 1/4", and each sidewall will be 1/4".

Maybe you should also have a 3/8" for working in 1" wood (or the
closest metric equivalent). The others in the set may never get used.

Another good option is to purchase one really good mortise chisel that
you need now, say the 1/4". And then if you ever need a 3/8", get it
then.

Besides Sorby, Lie-Neilsen makes great chisels. 1 LN chisel will cost
more than the whole set of Narex chisels.
http://www.lie-nielsen.com/catalog.php?sku=mc_set

[Roy]

The Narex bench chisels were given a "Best Buy" rating by FWW in t heir last
chisel review. Note that was bench and not morticing chisels. I have not seen
a morticing chisel review.

FWIW, I have yet to find a "bad" chisel at yard sales or the bay, as long as it
is a socket chisel. Some are better than others of course. Usually very good
price, especially if it needs a handle.

A followup to Jeff's post. He once had a short article/ amusing anecdote on his
site about the Sorby company and proper shaping of mortice chisels. The proper
transition from the cutting edge to the back of the chisel is rounded to aid
levering out the chips, not an angle. He also has a plan to build a sharpening
jig.

Someone mentioned Scarey Sharp, which is the method I use.. IME, a sheet higher
than 320 grit lasts a long time as long as you remember to pull not push. I can
buy a helluva lot of sandpaper for the $200 people want for a set of water
stones. A quarter inch 10" x 30" glass shelf cost a buck at the thrift store,
and easily holds six or more pieces of 1/3 sheet strips. I have a separate 12"
square of glass that holds 150 and 220 wet or dry. I do replace those grits
fairly often, but I frequently flatten chisels and plane blades. (I do not
collect chisels and planes, I do not collect chisels and planes, I do not.....)

Regards,
Roy





On Tue, 02 Nov 2010 14:19:11 -0400, Bill wrote:


I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a while
back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

I just noticed some Norex "mortising chisels" on sale (5 for $45) and
was curious whether they would offer me something more that I need, or
whether they would be redundant for my current purposes.

Thank you for your thoughts.

Bill

[Larry Blanchard]

On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 16:26:15 -0700, Mark Whittingham wrote:

Lie Nielsen makes mortising chisels too. JP

Yes they do. And they look just as good as my Sorbys. But they're not
pigstickers.

--
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw

[whit3rd]

On Nov 3, 5:51*am, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 00:05:38 -0400, Bill wrote:
Steve wrote:
On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, Bill said:

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a
while back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M & T joinery in soft wood.

It crushes too easily for my tastes. *Sharpness of the chisel is key.

I've dovetailed plywood and soft cedar... and it's VERY challenging.
Oak, on the other hand, with a sharp chisel, is easy.
Do your chisel work in hard wood first, you might graduate
to the soft stuff eventually.

[Bill[_37_]]

whit3rd wrote:
On Nov 3, 5:51 am, Larry wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 00:05:38 -0400, wrote:
Steve wrote:
On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, said:

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a
while back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M& T joinery in soft wood.

It crushes too easily for my tastes. Sharpness of the chisel is key.

I've dovetailed plywood and soft cedar... and it's VERY challenging.
Oak, on the other hand, with a sharp chisel, is easy.
Do your chisel work in hard wood first, you might graduate
to the soft stuff eventually.

The projects I have in mind use SYP. That's a hard enough soft wood to
work okay, no?

Bill

[alexy]

Bill wrote:

whit3rd wrote:
On Nov 3, 5:51 am, Larry wrote:
On Wed, 03 Nov 2010 00:05:38 -0400, wrote:
Steve wrote:
On 2010-11-02 14:19:11 -0400, said:

I bought a set of Irwin Marples (Blue Chip/Bevel edged) chisels a
while back. Supposedly, they can be used with mallet as well as by hand.

Assume I wish to do M& T joinery in soft wood.

It crushes too easily for my tastes. Sharpness of the chisel is key.

I've dovetailed plywood and soft cedar... and it's VERY challenging.
Oak, on the other hand, with a sharp chisel, is easy.
Do your chisel work in hard wood first, you might graduate
to the soft stuff eventually.

The projects I have in mind use SYP. That's a hard enough soft wood to
work okay, no?

NO! NO! NO!

SYP is the worst of both worlds, IMHO. The winter wood is very hard,
while the summer wood is relatively soft. When you are cutting through
oak or maple, the wood is hard, AND very solid, so the fibers you are
cutting have a good backing. With SYP, when you are cutting fibers in
the winter wood part of a ring, you are cutting very hard wood, with a
soft layer behind it.

Analogy: Paring oak is like slicing a carrot on a solid cutting board
on a counter top. Paring SYP is like slicing a carrot that is resting
on a sofa cushion.
--
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.

[Bill[_37_]]

alexy wrote:
wrote:

Assume I wish to do M& T joinery in soft wood.

The projects I have in mind use SYP. That's a hard enough soft wood to
work okay, no?

NO! NO! NO!

SYP is the worst of both worlds, IMHO. The winter wood is very hard,
while the summer wood is relatively soft. When you are cutting through
oak or maple, the wood is hard, AND very solid, so the fibers you are
cutting have a good backing. With SYP, when you are cutting fibers in
the winter wood part of a ring, you are cutting very hard wood, with a
soft layer behind it.

Analogy: Paring oak is like slicing a carrot on a solid cutting board
on a counter top. Paring SYP is like slicing a carrot that is resting
on a sofa cushion.

Point taken. How about the stuff typical 4by4s are made of (fir?)?

Bill

[Lew Hodgett[_6_]]

"Bill" wrote:

Point taken. How about the stuff typical 4by4s are made of (fir?)?
---------

Forget the garbage.

Break down and buy some hardwood "Shorts" from the "Drop off" bin and
enjoy practicing.

It won't break the bank.

Lew.

[Bill[_37_]]

Lew Hodgett wrote:
"Bill" wrote:

Point taken. How about the stuff typical 4by4s are made of (fir?)?
---------

Forget the garbage.

Break down and buy some hardwood "Shorts" from the "Drop off" bin and
enjoy practicing.


Lew.




I'm looking forward to practicing. I ordered a DP a few days ago.
Still need to gegting fluorescent lights up. The snow flurries started
just a few days ago and the temps are commensurate.

What do you think we should do for the rest of the materials with "our"
SYP-topped bench?

I happen to own a "rubber mallet". Is that appropriate for pushing a
chisel, or would one of the other contrivances I've seen be worthwhile?
The contrivance I was thinking of looked like a possibly rubber-coated
cylindrical mass of wood.

Bill

[RP[_3_]]

On Nov 6, 6:45*pm, Bill wrote:
alexy wrote:
*wrote:
Assume I wish to do M& * T joinery in soft wood.

The projects I have in mind use SYP. *That's a hard enough soft wood to
work okay, no?

NO! NO! NO!

SYP is the worst of both worlds, IMHO. The winter wood is very hard,
while the summer wood is relatively soft. When you are cutting through
oak or maple, the wood is hard, AND very solid, so the fibers you are
cutting have a good backing. With SYP, when you are cutting fibers in
the winter wood part of a ring, you are cutting very hard wood, with a
soft layer behind it.

Analogy: Paring oak is like slicing a carrot on a solid cutting board
on a counter top. Paring SYP is like slicing a carrot that is resting
on a sofa cushion.

Point taken. How about the stuff typical 4by4s are made of (fir?)?

Bill- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -

Ahh shoot Bill, whittle mortices in whatever you want to. From
pineywood to purpleheart and get used to the feel of it. Fir 4X's will
mortise nicely, Don't sweat the little sh@t, and get on with it.
Experience will come and you will be fine.

RP