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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the
possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
I don't know what a pellet press looks like but maybe you can rig
something up with a hydraulic jack and some pipe. Sam |
#3
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
DAGS for subject on alt.home.repair NG.
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 14:36:52 +0000, Andy Dingley wrote: Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. |
#4
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote: Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. I found that pressed sawdust logs are invariably mixed with some sort of binder. I'm trying to understand if it is even possible to get sawdust to stay together after a shape has been made from it...pellet, log, whatever. If one is going to have mix it with a binder, is a lot of pressure even needed or can it be done passively in say, a muffin tin-like form? Can some information be gleaned from the folks that make feed pellets? Just mulling things over.. Is applying 'work' to the making of a pellet of sawdust in the hope of it yielding energy when burned going to give you a positive yield? |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
"Robatoy" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Dingley wrote: SNIP I found that pressed sawdust logs are invariably mixed with some sort of binder. I'm trying to understand if it is even possible to get sawdust to stay together after a shape has been made from it...pellet, log, whatever. If one is going to have mix it with a binder, is a lot of pressure even needed or can it be done passively in say, a muffin tin-like form? Can some information be gleaned from the folks that make feed pellets? I believe that no binder is used in "presto-logs" - many years ago(when I was in elementary school) I visited the Weyerhaeuser factory where they made them - at the time they said that no binder was used only about a teaspoon of oil to lubricate the log so it would be pushed out of the mold - did use thousands of pounds of pressure to form them however. . . BB |
#6
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Sun, 06 Nov 2005 19:18:03 -0500, Robatoy
wrote: In article , Andy Dingley wrote: Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. I found that pressed sawdust logs are invariably mixed with some sort of binder. I'm trying to understand if it is even possible to get sawdust to stay together after a shape has been made from it...pellet, log, whatever. I think I'd start with parraffin wax. If one is going to have mix it with a binder, is a lot of pressure even needed or can it be done passively in say, a muffin tin-like form? Can some information be gleaned from the folks that make feed pellets? feed pelletization might involve some accessible technology. definitely worth a look. Just mulling things over.. Is applying 'work' to the making of a pellet of sawdust in the hope of it yielding energy when burned going to give you a positive yield? probably. there's quite a bit of energy in the sawdust, and when you consider that this processing is saving you the work of otherwise disposing of the stuff, you're coming out ahead- as long as the pelletization process isn't terribly inefficient. making them one at a time in a hydraulic press would probably count as being terribly inefficient |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
This subject was posted here last week. I had replyed that while in Germany
this summer, I toured a woodshop in which the sawdust was sent downstairs via a central dust collector. There, it was compressed into biscuits the size of a breakfast biscuit... about 3" dia by 1 1/2 to 2" thick. No binder was used, only the pressure that the machine used to make them. He had a huge pile of these and shoveled them into a wood burning stove system which then heated the whole shop. It was a fascinating shop. I'll get around to posting the pics on a webpage one of these days. I even brought one of the sawdust biscuits home with me. Will |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
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#9
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
In article pxxbf.21456$ip6.12279@trnddc07, "BB" wrote:
"Robatoy" wrote in message ... In article , Andy Dingley wrote: SNIP I found that pressed sawdust logs are invariably mixed with some sort of binder. I'm trying to understand if it is even possible to get sawdust to stay together after a shape has been made from it...pellet, log, whatever. If one is going to have mix it with a binder, is a lot of pressure even needed or can it be done passively in say, a muffin tin-like form? Can some information be gleaned from the folks that make feed pellets? I believe that no binder is used in "presto-logs" - many years ago(when I was in elementary school) I visited the Weyerhaeuser factory where they made them - at the time they said that no binder was used only about a teaspoon of oil to lubricate the log so it would be pushed out of the mold - did use thousands of pounds of pressure to form them however. . . BB No binder at all would be cool. I just assumed that something had to hold them logs together...I will snoop around a bit more. |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:40:13 -0500, Robatoy
wrote: I was thinking some kind of animal fat. I don't think you'd need a lot of it either. I can't face the paperwork involved with animal fats! Tallow is no longer usable as a heating fuel (even by meat processors) it's now regarded as chemical waste. -- Cats have nine lives, which is why they rarely post to Usenet. |
#11
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
In article ,
Andy Dingley wrote: On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 08:40:13 -0500, Robatoy wrote: I was thinking some kind of animal fat. I don't think you'd need a lot of it either. I can't face the paperwork involved with animal fats! Tallow is no longer usable as a heating fuel (even by meat processors) it's now regarded as chemical waste. Shows you what I know. I would have thought of animal fat as a 'green' product. |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 12:23:06 -0500, Robatoy
wrote: I would have thought of animal fat as a 'green' product. Tell that to the UK government 8-( |
#13
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On 11/6/2005 7:18 PM Robatoy mumbled something about the following:
In article , Andy Dingley wrote: Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. I found that pressed sawdust logs are invariably mixed with some sort of binder. I'm trying to understand if it is even possible to get sawdust to stay together after a shape has been made from it...pellet, log, whatever. If one is going to have mix it with a binder, is a lot of pressure even needed or can it be done passively in say, a muffin tin-like form? Can some information be gleaned from the folks that make feed pellets? Just mulling things over.. Is applying 'work' to the making of a pellet of sawdust in the hope of it yielding energy when burned going to give you a positive yield? After doing some digging around on google, I've found this much out about pellet mills. Sawdust is run through a hammermill to bring it to some uniform size (whatever size that is supposed to be), run through a drum dryer to bring it down to about 10% RH. Steam heated to some specific temp that I can't find, then pressed through a die creating 1/4in (6mm) diameter pellets ranging from 1/2in (13mm) to 1 in (25mm) in length. They are then cooled and screened and vacuumed before being heat sealed in bags. No binders used at all. Fuel cost comparison Premium Wood Pellets Per Ton Per mm BTUs 8200 BTUs/lb. $180.00 $13.71 80% efficiency Propane Per Gallon Per mm BTUs 90,000 BTUs/gallon $1.80 $30.80 Electric Per KWH Per mm BTUs 3415BTUs/kwh $0.10 $30.80 95% efficiency Oil #2 Per Gallon Per mm BTUs 138,000 BTUs/gallon $1.80 $16.29 80% efficiency Natural Gas Per MCF Per mm BTUs 100,000 BTU $1.60 $20.00 -- Odinn RCOS #7 SENS BS ??? "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org rot13 to reply |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:09:06 -0500, Odinn
wrote: Sawdust is run through a hammermill to bring it to some uniform size (whatever size that is supposed to be), run through a drum dryer to bring it down to about 10% RH. [...] There seem to be two processses. If you're a "pellet factory" you do it this way. If you're a sawmill or machine shop looking for disposal you do it on the cheap. The milling is replaced by a simple screening (if that) and the moisture/ temperature control is replaced by a few % of wax or heavy oil binder. This puts up the price per pellet, but reduces the capital costs. Some presses are also using recycled hydrogenated vegetable oils (cheap) as a binder. |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On 11/8/2005 7:59 AM Andy Dingley mumbled something about the following:
On Mon, 07 Nov 2005 21:09:06 -0500, Odinn wrote: Sawdust is run through a hammermill to bring it to some uniform size (whatever size that is supposed to be), run through a drum dryer to bring it down to about 10% RH. [...] There seem to be two processses. If you're a "pellet factory" you do it this way. If you're a sawmill or machine shop looking for disposal you do it on the cheap. The milling is replaced by a simple screening (if that) and the moisture/ temperature control is replaced by a few % of wax or heavy oil binder. This puts up the price per pellet, but reduces the capital costs. Some presses are also using recycled hydrogenated vegetable oils (cheap) as a binder. I don't think you could use such things in a pellet stove though, which is what I thought the OP was looking for. -- Odinn RCOS #7 SENS BS ??? "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org rot13 to reply |
#16
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:45:41 -0500, Odinn
wrote: I don't think you could use such things in a pellet stove though, which is what I thought the OP was looking for. I (I'm the OP) don't know much about pellet stoves - we don't have them in the UK, nor a large pellet supply chain to feed them. I'm looking at improved storage for sawdust, then selling them off as bagged wood fuel to be hand-fed into manual woodstoves. Uncompressed sawdust is a pain to burn in a stove (low heat output) and I'm hoping the pellets will be easier to store too. |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On 11/9/2005 8:51 AM Andy Dingley mumbled something about the following:
On Tue, 08 Nov 2005 20:45:41 -0500, Odinn wrote: I don't think you could use such things in a pellet stove though, which is what I thought the OP was looking for. I (I'm the OP) don't know much about pellet stoves - we don't have them in the UK, nor a large pellet supply chain to feed them. I'm looking at improved storage for sawdust, then selling them off as bagged wood fuel to be hand-fed into manual woodstoves. Uncompressed sawdust is a pain to burn in a stove (low heat output) and I'm hoping the pellets will be easier to store too. Ah, yes, you were the OP, my mistake, I was just glancing through and didn't pay much attention (one of the problems with working 50-60 hrs a week with a 1.5 hr commute each way). For a normal woodstove, I would think that a small amount of paraffin or bees wax mixed in with it and compressed would make something similar to those fake logs (made to burn in a fireplace) I see at WalMart. -- Odinn RCOS #7 SENS BS ??? "The more I study religions the more I am convinced that man never worshiped anything but himself." -- Sir Richard Francis Burton Reeky's unofficial homepage ... http://www.reeky.org '03 FLHTI ........... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/ElectraGlide '97 VN1500D ......... http://www.sloanclan.org/gallery/VulcanClassic Atlanta Biker Net ... http://www.atlantabiker.net Vulcan Riders Assoc . http://www.vulcanriders.org rot13 to reply |
#19
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:10:45 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote: You might spend a bit of time looking at DIY cigarette-making machines. boggle We have those in the UK. They look like this: http://www.roll-ups.co.uk/ishop/879/shopscr3088.html I've actually worked on commercial fag making machines. They were huge, ran extremely fast, but they didn't have much real compression to them. |
#20
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
"Andy Dingley" wrote in message
"Morris Dovey" wrote: You might spend a bit of time looking at DIY cigarette-making machines. We have those in the UK. They look like this: http://www.roll-ups.co.uk/ishop/879/shopscr3088.html I've actually worked on commercial fag making machines. They were huge, ran extremely fast, but they didn't have much real compression to them. Damn ... that brought back memories. Ready rolled were so expensive in England that when I worked at Heston Aircraft in the early 60's we all rolled our own cigarettes (I made 13 pound ten shillings a week starting out as a "Progress Chaser" on the factory floor (Expediter, here) and a _half_ pack of Players cost half a crown - you could also buy them one at a time at a kiosk). I had two cigarette rollers, both smaller than the one pictured above, but one was too big to carry around and was for use at home, the other would fit in a tobacco tin. It was a nightly thing to sit down at the kitchen table and roll up a batch for the next day with the bigger roller. The "cool" thing for us factory workers back then was to take a small tobacco tin down to the factory paint shop and have it coated to your spec to use as a shirt pocket container for tobacco, papers, and the smaller roller for when you ran out during the day. How times have changed ... -- www.e-woodshop.net Last update: 11/06/05 |
#21
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
Andy Dingley (in ) said:
| On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:10:45 -0600, "Morris Dovey" | wrote: | || You might spend a bit of time looking at DIY cigarette-making || machines. | | boggle | | We have those in the UK. | They look like this: | http://www.roll-ups.co.uk/ishop/879/shopscr3088.html | | | I've actually worked on commercial fag making machines. They were | huge, ran extremely fast, but they didn't have much real | compression to them. DAGS for "Premier Supermatic". I think these are made in Canada - and if you overload 'em and use real muscle, they'll produce a cigarette so solid that it won't burn. These are 'compress and inject' machines that insert a cylindrical pellet of tobacco into a manufactured paper tube - not the same approach as that taken with the 'roller' machines. I don't suggest using a cigarette-maker as a fuel pellet producer - but think that once you take a look at the mechanism, you'll see how to make a simple (automatic, motorized) machine for making sawdust fuel pellets. If you can't find one to examine locally, drop me an e-mail and I'll send some pictures (but better that you should examine one first-hand). -- Morris Dovey DeSoto Solar DeSoto, Iowa USA http://www.iedu.com/DeSoto/solar.html |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
Andy Dingley wrote: Anyone have experience of bulk sawdust disposal? I'm looking into the possibility of a pelletising press as a way of turning useless sawdust into a storable and possibly saleable pellet fuel. However all the pellet presses I've seen have been huge and expensive, intended for use by a pellet-making plant, rather than just intermittently disposing of waste from a small timberyard. I also note that meat-packing screw presses are cheap and commonplace S/H, but sawdust pellet presses are anything but. Anyone heard of a DIY conversion process ? I'm expecting that hard-facing the screws would be needed, but a little engineering work is no problem. There was a product called "woodettes" made in australia during the 1960-1970 era. These were compressed sawdust about 3" in diameter and although cylindrical in form would break apart in about 1" thick sections. These seemed to be just sawdust, steamed and compressed. |
#23
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:27:16 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
scribbled: Andy Dingley (in ) said: | I've actually worked on commercial fag making machines. They were | huge, ran extremely fast, but they didn't have much real | compression to them. DAGS for "Premier Supermatic". I think these are made in Canada - and if you overload 'em and use real muscle, they'll produce a cigarette so solid that it won't burn. These are 'compress and inject' machines that insert a cylindrical pellet of tobacco into a manufactured paper tube - not the same approach as that taken with the 'roller' machines. I don't suggest using a cigarette-maker as a fuel pellet producer - but think that once you take a look at the mechanism, you'll see how to make a simple (automatic, motorized) machine for making sawdust fuel pellets. If you can't find one to examine locally, drop me an e-mail and I'll send some pictures (but better that you should examine one first-hand). Andy, if you can't find one, I've got two or three around somewhere. I could send you one. Luigi Replace "nonet" with "yukonomics" for real email address www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/humour.html www.yukonomics.ca/wooddorking/antifaq.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikiped...ct_Woodworking |
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
On Thu, 10 Nov 2005 18:27:16 -0600, "Morris Dovey"
wrote: Andy Dingley (in ) said: | On Wed, 9 Nov 2005 19:10:45 -0600, "Morris Dovey" | wrote: | || You might spend a bit of time looking at DIY cigarette-making || machines. | | boggle | | We have those in the UK. | They look like this: | http://www.roll-ups.co.uk/ishop/879/shopscr3088.html | | | I've actually worked on commercial fag making machines. They were | huge, ran extremely fast, but they didn't have much real | compression to them. DAGS for "Premier Supermatic". I think these are made in Canada - and if you overload 'em and use real muscle, they'll produce a cigarette so solid that it won't burn. These are 'compress and inject' machines that insert a cylindrical pellet of tobacco into a manufactured paper tube - not the same approach as that taken with the 'roller' machines. I don't suggest using a cigarette-maker as a fuel pellet producer - but think that once you take a look at the mechanism, you'll see how to make a simple (automatic, motorized) machine for making sawdust fuel pellets. If you can't find one to examine locally, drop me an e-mail and I'll send some pictures (but better that you should examine one first-hand). another machine that might serve to provide some inspiration but isn't likely to be directly convertible to a pelletizer is a ceramist's pug mill. |
#25
Posted to rec.woodworking
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DIY Sawdust pelletising presses
Hi, one guy locally used to make wood pellets for the stoves. He was buying
shavings from the sawmills that were dressing kiln dry lumber. He had to run them through a hog to get them finer. Many were too dry to work properly so he would wet them down a little with a garden hose. He had an old feed pellet machine. Many feed mills have some old ones in the corner but when the dies get worn out, the holes are too big thus reducing the space of solid metal between the holes and they will break easy. These are a drum full of small holes with a roller on the inside at the bottom which squeezes the wood particles through the die. If I remember right the dies were worth around $6,000 10 yrs ago. He did not use any additive and he did not heat the wood particles, just the heat created from compression was enough to melt the resins so binding would happen. We did have a sawmill that had built a log plant, they used the hardwood chips from their sawmill, hog them, dry them and then press them in a die. It would compressed around 12 inches of fine wood particles into 1/2" and a lot of heat was created from this compression. The outfeed was about 40 ft long to allow cooling so they would not break up. There was no additives of any kind. If you broke the logs into the 1/2 inch pieces they worked fine in a barbecue and burned very clean. If the particles were too wet the pressure in the die head would get so high that the head would fly apart (a safety feature) and it sure would scare the hell out of you. One has to factor the wood species in too. Pine has a lot of resin so it would bind easy. Many small briquette machine were sold in the US and I believe these were made in Finland. The market was for fireplaces in the winter and campfires in the summer. Have fun Eric |
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