[Allthumbs]

Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-


"Sealey Petrol Generator 800w 2hp 2 Stroke Engine

Compact and lightweight unit capable of running small tools and lights
etc. makes it ideal for roadside, building sites or leisure use.
Powerful and reliable generator fitted with maintenance free brushless
alternator. Fitted with 12V battery charging outlet and 230V 3-pin
socket.

Model No: G950
Motor Power: 2hp
Motor Type: 2-Stroke
Output: 230V - 50Hz /12V DC
Current Rating: 3A /8.1A
Cont. Power Rating: 650W
Max Power Rating: 800W"

Now, a fridge or freezer is only about 200W but I read this:-
"http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,50,%20misc"
The compressor (fridge) is a highly reactive load because when its
running the VA shoots up to more than twice the value of the watts
consumed. The relationship between real power (Watts) and apparant
power (VA), is defined by the ratio between them called the power
factor (which reached a minimum of 42% in this test). Unfortunately
this concept is fairly technical. The significance of the much larger
value of VA for the average home owner is that if you are selecting an
alternative source of power you need to check that it can provide
sufficient VA over and above its power rating in Watts or kilo Watts
(in this case the maximum values recorded were 145W vs 295VA).

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?
--
Mike

[pete]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:12:50 +0100, Allthumbs wrote:
Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-

Have you checked if your freezer contents are covered by house / home-contents
insurance? If the power-cut is not your fault then yo may be able to claim,
either against your policy or whoever caused your power to go off.
Cheaper than buying a genny!

[Toby]

"Allthumbs" wrote in message
...
Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-


"Sealey Petrol Generator 800w 2hp 2 Stroke Engine

Compact and lightweight unit capable of running small tools and lights
etc. makes it ideal for roadside, building sites or leisure use.
Powerful and reliable generator fitted with maintenance free brushless
alternator. Fitted with 12V battery charging outlet and 230V 3-pin
socket.

Model No: G950
Motor Power: 2hp
Motor Type: 2-Stroke
Output: 230V - 50Hz /12V DC
Current Rating: 3A /8.1A
Cont. Power Rating: 650W
Max Power Rating: 800W"

Now, a fridge or freezer is only about 200W but I read this:-
"http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,50,%20misc"
The compressor (fridge) is a highly reactive load because when its
running the VA shoots up to more than twice the value of the watts
consumed. The relationship between real power (Watts) and apparant
power (VA), is defined by the ratio between them called the power
factor (which reached a minimum of 42% in this test). Unfortunately
this concept is fairly technical. The significance of the much larger
value of VA for the average home owner is that if you are selecting an
alternative source of power you need to check that it can provide
sufficient VA over and above its power rating in Watts or kilo Watts
(in this case the maximum values recorded were 145W vs 295VA).

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?
--
Mike

Not answering your question, but I heard on the radio this morning, from
someone from EDF, that if your power is off for more than 18 hours, you can
claim £50 from them - so that should be £50 towards the generator, which may
mean you can afford a better one!

Toby...

[NT[_2_]]

On Jul 21, 10:12*am, Allthumbs wrote:
Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-

"Sealey Petrol Generator 800w 2hp 2 Stroke Engine

Compact and lightweight unit capable of running small tools and lights
etc. makes it ideal for roadside, building sites or leisure use.
Powerful and reliable generator fitted with maintenance free brushless
alternator. Fitted with 12V battery charging outlet and 230V 3-pin
socket.

Model No: G950
Motor Power: 2hp
Motor Type: 2-Stroke
Output: 230V - 50Hz /12V DC
Current Rating: 3A /8.1A
Cont. Power Rating: 650W
Max Power Rating: 800W"

Now, a fridge or freezer is only about 200W but I read this:-
"http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,50,%20misc"
The compressor (fridge) is a highly reactive load because when its
running the VA shoots up to more than twice the value of the watts
consumed. *The relationship between real power (Watts) and apparant
power (VA), is defined by the ratio between them called the power
factor (which reached a minimum of 42% in this test). *Unfortunately
this concept is fairly technical. The significance of the much larger
value of VA for the average home owner is that if you are selecting an
alternative source of power you need to check that it can provide
sufficient VA over and above its power rating in Watts or kilo Watts
(in this case the maximum values recorded were 145W vs 295VA).

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?

Almost certainly it'll do. To be sure, look at the ratings plate on
the ff for the VA rating.


NT

[PeterC]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:12:50 +0100, Allthumbs wrote:

Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-

"Sealey Petrol Generator 800w 2hp 2 Stroke Engine

Compact and lightweight unit capable of running small tools and lights
etc. makes it ideal for roadside, building sites or leisure use.
Powerful and reliable generator fitted with maintenance free brushless
alternator. Fitted with 12V battery charging outlet and 230V 3-pin
socket.

Model No: G950
Motor Power: 2hp
Motor Type: 2-Stroke
Output: 230V - 50Hz /12V DC
Current Rating: 3A /8.1A
Cont. Power Rating: 650W
Max Power Rating: 800W"

Now, a fridge or freezer is only about 200W but I read this:-
"http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,50,%20misc"
The compressor (fridge) is a highly reactive load because when its
running the VA shoots up to more than twice the value of the watts
consumed. The relationship between real power (Watts) and apparant
power (VA), is defined by the ratio between them called the power
factor (which reached a minimum of 42% in this test). Unfortunately
this concept is fairly technical. The significance of the much larger
value of VA for the average home owner is that if you are selecting an
alternative source of power you need to check that it can provide
sufficient VA over and above its power rating in Watts or kilo Watts
(in this case the maximum values recorded were 145W vs 295VA).

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?

The peak load is at start and can be very high - a 1A pot (240W, which is a
reasonably sized FF) can blow a 5A fuse - but lasts for ~2 - 3 cycles. On
start, the inrush current pulls in a contactor (klixon) that supplies the
start winding then drops out leaving the pot on its run winding. ISTR the
PF being 'not too bad' - but can't unforget wot it were.
--
Peter.
The head of a pin will hold more angels if
it's been flattened with an angel-grinder.

[NT[_2_]]

On Jul 21, 2:50*pm, PeterC wrote:
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:12:50 +0100, Allthumbs wrote:
Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-

"Sealey Petrol Generator 800w 2hp 2 Stroke Engine

Compact and lightweight unit capable of running small tools and lights
etc. makes it ideal for roadside, building sites or leisure use.
Powerful and reliable generator fitted with maintenance free brushless
alternator. Fitted with 12V battery charging outlet and 230V 3-pin
socket.

Model No: G950
Motor Power: 2hp
Motor Type: 2-Stroke
Output: 230V - 50Hz /12V DC
Current Rating: 3A /8.1A
Cont. Power Rating: 650W
Max Power Rating: 800W"

Now, a fridge or freezer is only about 200W but I read this:-
"http://www.powersaving.co.za/index.php?q=con,50,%20misc"
The compressor (fridge) is a highly reactive load because when its
running the VA shoots up to more than twice the value of the watts
consumed. *The relationship between real power (Watts) and apparant
power (VA), is defined by the ratio between them called the power
factor (which reached a minimum of 42% in this test). *Unfortunately
this concept is fairly technical. The significance of the much larger
value of VA for the average home owner is that if you are selecting an
alternative source of power you need to check that it can provide
sufficient VA over and above its power rating in Watts or kilo Watts
(in this case the maximum values recorded were 145W vs 295VA).

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?

The peak load is at start and can be very high - a 1A pot (240W, which is a
reasonably sized FF) can blow a 5A fuse - but lasts for ~2 - 3 cycles. On
start, the inrush current pulls in a contactor (klixon) that supplies the
start winding then drops out leaving the pot on its run winding. ISTR the
PF being 'not too bad' - but can't unforget wot it were.

hopefully the gen will supply it without too much V drop. Plus the
compressor gets many attempts to start if not initially succesful.


NT

[geoff]

In message , pete
writes
On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 10:12:50 +0100, Allthumbs wrote:
Having had no power for 24 hours looking at generators, the one below
is probably fairly typical of portable generators:-

Have you checked if your freezer contents are covered by house / home-contents
insurance? If the power-cut is not your fault then yo may be able to claim,
either against your policy or whoever caused your power to go off.
Cheaper than buying a genny!

I presume he lives SE London way

There have been some very naughty boys playing in the area

it's all dahn


--
geoff

[Grimly Curmudgeon]

We were somewhere around Barstow, on the edge of the desert, when the
drugs began to take hold. I remember Allthumbs
saying something like:

this whistled over my head with a big WHOOSH, anyone know if the
example generator is likely to be powerful enough?

Hmmm... probably. The fridge/freezer motor takes a belt of current on
startup, but the genset alternator will withstand overload in the very
short term, happily, it's long enough to cope with a fridge starting up.
What I do when the standby genny is tiny like that, is just switch off
the fridge for a few hours and keep the door shut. If I need to keep the
temp down, I turn everything else off and let the fridge run for a
while. I have a chest freezer, so it can remain powerless for ages.

[Allthumbs]

On 21 Jul 2009 10:30:28 GMT, pete wrote:

Have you checked if your freezer contents are covered by house / home-contents
insurance? If the power-cut is not your fault then yo may be able to claim,

I can do that but prefer to rectify the problem.
--
Mike

[Allthumbs]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 12:18:42 +0100, "Toby"
wrote:

Not answering your question, but I heard on the radio this morning, from
someone from EDF, that if your power is off for more than 18 hours, you can
claim £50 from them - so that should be £50 towards the generator, which may
mean you can afford a better one!

we should get £100 then :-)
--
Mike

[Allthumbs]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 05:11:51 -0700 (PDT), NT
wrote:

Almost certainly it'll do. To be sure, look at the ratings plate on
the ff for the VA rating.

thanks
--
Mike

[Allthumbs]

On Tue, 21 Jul 2009 20:55:25 +0100, Grimly Curmudgeon
wrote:

What I do when the standby genny is tiny like that, is just switch off
the fridge for a few hours and keep the door shut. If I need to keep the
temp down, I turn everything else off and let the fridge run for a
while. I have a chest freezer, so it can remain powerless for ages.

yes, I would just give them a boost every few hours, as i happens EDF
managed to switch us on for 3 hours now and again.
--
Mike

[Dave Liquorice[_2_]]

On Wed, 22 Jul 2009 08:01:16 +0100, Allthumbs wrote:

Not answering your question, but I heard on the radio this
morning,
from someone from EDF, that if your power is off for more than 18
hours, you can claim £50 from them - so that should be £50 towards
the
generator, which may mean you can afford a better one!

we should get £100 then :-)

Didn't you just say you where getting power for 3hrs every now and
again? The "pay compensation clock" will be reset back to zero each
time the power comes back... It has to be off continusly for so many
hours before they pay out. With a large number of customers affected
for a long time it's cheaper for them to send engineers round
manually switching feeds to keep that compensation clock below the
threshold...

--
Cheers
Dave.