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shower pump installation - anti gravity loop



 
 
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  #1  
Old September 7th 06, 02:21 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

I am about to install a Salamander ESP100CPV shower pump. The easiest
place for me to put it is in the airing cupboard above the Hot Water
Cylinder. The intructions indicate that I can do this as long as I fit
an anti-gravity loop at least 250mm in depth.

OK, all well and good but at the risk of sounding foolish, is this
something I can buy ready made or do I need to construct one ? If the
latter, what is the best way of doing this in 22mm copper, I don't have
a pipe bender. I guess what I'm really asking is will there be any
problem if I form one out of short straight pieces of pipe with 2x
90degree elbows ?

Thanks.

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  #2  
Old September 7th 06, 02:43 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 77
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop


"Kevin" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am about to install a Salamander ESP100CPV shower pump. The easiest
place for me to put it is in the airing cupboard above the Hot Water
Cylinder. The intructions indicate that I can do this as long as I fit
an anti-gravity loop at least 250mm in depth.

OK, all well and good but at the risk of sounding foolish, is this
something I can buy ready made or do I need to construct one ? If the
latter, what is the best way of doing this in 22mm copper, I don't have
a pipe bender. I guess what I'm really asking is will there be any
problem if I form one out of short straight pieces of pipe with 2x
90degree elbows ?


The whole point of the loop is to dissuade dissolved air from entering the
pumps impellers. I can see any reason why you can't construct one yourself
though to retain optimum flow rates a swept 180 deg turn using a spring or
pipe bender would be better than 2 elbows.


  #3  
Old September 7th 06, 03:13 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 32
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

"Fred" wrote in message
...

"Kevin" wrote in message
oups.com...
I am about to install a Salamander ESP100CPV shower pump. The easiest
place for me to put it is in the airing cupboard above the Hot Water
Cylinder. The intructions indicate that I can do this as long as I fit
an anti-gravity loop at least 250mm in depth.

OK, all well and good but at the risk of sounding foolish, is this
something I can buy ready made or do I need to construct one ? If the
latter, what is the best way of doing this in 22mm copper, I don't have
a pipe bender. I guess what I'm really asking is will there be any
problem if I form one out of short straight pieces of pipe with 2x
90degree elbows ?


The whole point of the loop is to dissuade dissolved air from entering the
pumps impellers. I can see any reason why you can't construct one

yourself
though to retain optimum flow rates a swept 180 deg turn using a spring or
pipe bender would be better than 2 elbows.


LOL - a point lost on the last plumber we had..


  #4  
Old September 7th 06, 03:44 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 162
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop


Kevin wrote:
I am about to install a Salamander ESP100CPV shower pump. The easiest
place for me to put it is in the airing cupboard above the Hot Water
Cylinder. The intructions indicate that I can do this as long as I fit
an anti-gravity loop at least 250mm in depth.

OK, all well and good but at the risk of sounding foolish, is this
something I can buy ready made or do I need to construct one ? If the
latter, what is the best way of doing this in 22mm copper, I don't have
a pipe bender. I guess what I'm really asking is will there be any
problem if I form one out of short straight pieces of pipe with 2x
90degree elbows ?


You should always use swept bends on the piping to pumped showers (read
the instructions). If you don't want to bend copper i would use plastic
pushfit with the purpose made formers (cold forming bend) that allow
you to bend the pipe and hold it in place:

http://www.johnguest.com/part_spec.asp?s=CFB_S1

MBQ

  #5  
Old September 7th 06, 06:26 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 15,595
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

Fred wrote:

"Kevin" wrote in message
oups.com...

I am about to install a Salamander ESP100CPV shower pump. The easiest
place for me to put it is in the airing cupboard above the Hot Water
Cylinder. The intructions indicate that I can do this as long as I fit
an anti-gravity loop at least 250mm in depth.

OK, all well and good but at the risk of sounding foolish, is this
something I can buy ready made or do I need to construct one ? If the
latter, what is the best way of doing this in 22mm copper, I don't have
a pipe bender. I guess what I'm really asking is will there be any
problem if I form one out of short straight pieces of pipe with 2x
90degree elbows ?



The whole point of the loop is to dissuade dissolved air from entering the
pumps impellers.


ITYM it is to prevent convected circulation from causing the pump to
start all by itself even when the shower is not turned on

(preventing air ingress is one of the reasons for using a dedicated
shower flange to feed the shower (Essex / Surrey / Warwix etc))

I can see any reason why you can't construct one yourself
though to retain optimum flow rates a swept 180 deg turn using a spring or
pipe bender would be better than 2 elbows.


Yup definately stick to swept bends in this application.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #6  
Old September 8th 06, 11:15 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 14
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

Thanks guys for all the advise. I've just realised that in addition to
fitting the anti-graivity loop, if I want to place the pump above the
hot water cylinder then I need to use an essex flange which means
drilling a hole in the side of the cylinder. I'm not too keen on this
and thought I could just replace the existing top fitting with a Surrey
flange. I may have to look at other options first, most obvious at the
moment is to put the pump under the floorboards, but I'm a little
concerned about noise and vibration.

  #7  
Old September 8th 06, 04:02 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
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Posts: 15,595
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

Kevin wrote:

Thanks guys for all the advise. I've just realised that in addition to
fitting the anti-graivity loop, if I want to place the pump above the
hot water cylinder then I need to use an essex flange which means
drilling a hole in the side of the cylinder. I'm not too keen on this
and thought I could just replace the existing top fitting with a Surrey
flange. I may have to look at other options first, most obvious at the
moment is to put the pump under the floorboards, but I'm a little
concerned about noise and vibration.


The exact pump location does not really change the requirements for the
tank connection. The pump instructions normally give a range of
connection options that start with a dedicated essex flange as the most
deireable, to using the existing top connection as the least. Having
saif that in the right circumstances using the existing top connection
can work fine.

--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
  #8  
Old September 8th 06, 04:35 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

The exact pump location does not really change the requirements for the
tank connection. The pump instructions normally give a range of
connection options that start with a dedicated essex flange as the most
deireable, to using the existing top connection as the least. Having
saif that in the right circumstances using the existing top connection
can work fine.


Thanks John. I've re-read the instructions again. The Essex flange
with the anti-gravity loop is compulsory if the pump is fitted above
the outlet from the hot water cylinder. If the pump is fitted below
the outlet then I can use any other approved top entry flange. These
include the Salamander (S) Flange, York Flange and Warix Flange. I
thought I had also read Surrey flange but I may be mistaking this with
the S flange. I figured it would be easier to use one of the approved
top-connection flanges rather than trying to drill a hole in the side
of the cylinder and the associated difficulties of fitting it.

  #9  
Old September 8th 06, 04:42 PM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 14
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

The exact pump location does not really change the requirements for the
tank connection. The pump instructions normally give a range of
connection options that start with a dedicated essex flange as the most
deireable, to using the existing top connection as the least. Having
saif that in the right circumstances using the existing top connection
can work fine.


Thanks John. I've re-read the instructions again. The Essex flange
with the anti-gravity loop is compulsory if the pump is fitted above
the outlet from the hot water cylinder. If the pump is fitted below
the outlet then I can use any other approved top entry flange. These
include the Salamander (S) Flange, York Flange and Warix Flange. I
thought I had also read Surrey flange but I may be mistaking this with
the S flange. I figured it would be easier to use one of the approved
top-connection flanges rather than trying to drill a hole in the side
of the cylinder and the associated difficulties of fitting it.

  #10  
Old September 9th 06, 12:42 AM posted to uk.d-i-y
external usenet poster
 
Posts: 15,595
Default shower pump installation - anti gravity loop

Kevin wrote:

The exact pump location does not really change the requirements for the
tank connection. The pump instructions normally give a range of
connection options that start with a dedicated essex flange as the most
deireable, to using the existing top connection as the least. Having
saif that in the right circumstances using the existing top connection
can work fine.



Thanks John. I've re-read the instructions again. The Essex flange
with the anti-gravity loop is compulsory if the pump is fitted above
the outlet from the hot water cylinder. If the pump is fitted below


The antigravity loop I can understand being a requirement. However the
choice of flange less so. An Essex flange is a good way to do it
certainly, but not the only way - even with the pump above the cylinder
(but still below the head of the cold tank feeding it)

the outlet then I can use any other approved top entry flange. These
include the Salamander (S) Flange, York Flange and Warix Flange. I
thought I had also read Surrey flange but I may be mistaking this with
the S flange.


Surrey and Warwix flanges are pretty similar - I would have no
hesitation using either.

I figured it would be easier to use one of the approved
top-connection flanges rather than trying to drill a hole in the side
of the cylinder and the associated difficulties of fitting it.


Indeed. I have done one before just using the standard output and it
worked fine. However that was with an optimal setup with the cold
cistern in the loft almost directly above, with a clear run of 22mm
swept bend pipework to the cylinder. It was also only using a 1.4 bar
pump, had it have been more I may not have tried it! (I also had the
option of making up a surrey flange should it prove to not work as well
as hoped)


--
Cheers,

John.

/================================================== ===============\
| Internode Ltd - http://www.internode.co.uk |
|-----------------------------------------------------------------|
| John Rumm - john(at)internode(dot)co(dot)uk |
\================================================= ================/
 




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