On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 19:47:23 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Wed, 20 Aug 2014 17:50:31 -0500, Ignoramus14649
wrote:

On 2014-08-20, wrote:
On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 2:03:34 AM UTC, Ignoramus26736 wrote:

My question is, will 30 tons be enough force to pull rails up like

that?
Thanks
i

I am assuming that you are only pulling one rail at a time and that you will be pulling about 5 feet of rail free and then moving the jack. My guess is that you will only need about 8 tons at the most. So you might want to be able to substitute a smaller hydraulic cylinder that will operate faster.

This is a guess from pulling fence posts with a jack. So let us know what works.


I will see. I will hook up the cylinder to the bobcat. I realized
there is no reason to use a 110v hydraulic unit here when I will have
the bobcat. The bobcat has a huge pump and speed is clearly not an
issue, neither is the hydraulic system pressure.

My plan is to work backwards, pull a bit of rail, have it torched off,
back up, pull some more, maybe in 10 foot sections. The bobcat will
both move, as well as power, the hydraulic contraption.

This is how it looks.


beam
.=================
!! ; O
!! ;chain |
!!post ; [ ] hydraulic
!! ; [ ] cylinder
---- {}rail ------

The cylinder pushes the beam up, which cantilevers on top of the left
post, a chain is attached to the middle of the beam, to pull up the
rail.

NAH!

===================
; || ;
; 00 ;
; [] ;
; [] ;
; |====| ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
; | | ;
////// | r |////// frame clamps
| r |
| r |

Cylinder over rail, straddling it. Tongs lift on both sides of
cylinder with 1:1 lift, not 1:12 as you show it. Much quicker.
Heavy-ass duty tongs, of course. Maybe body shop frame pulling
clamps large enough to straddle the rail? Stanzani 140?
http://www.cegroup.com/8,Stanzani__1..._4 5_mm_.html
but made from scratch. You may already have something like it.

-

Gunner, do you have any of the smaller sheetmetal clamps like this?
Pop some in a box for me to pick up, por favor.
http://www.cegroup.com/138,Mo_Clamp_...Pull_Ring.html

Not a one. Never saw those before.

But Ive got tons of other clamps.


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

i

Ill bet when you pull up on the rail..its gonna bring a surprising
number of ties with it.


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 08:27:01 -0700 (PDT),
wrote:

On Friday, August 22, 2014 12:04:54 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
On 2014-08-22, wrote:

On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:

Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."



If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item

1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4

lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.

So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee

pads would be a good thing if you try that.



The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost

prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you

have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to

see what is fastest.


There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

BTW, here is the tool they use to dig out railroad spikes:

-- http://www.coincommunity.com/forum/t...OPIC_ID=121328

(I'm sure asking any RR worker can help you in the right direction)

Might have one "fall off the back of the truck" for $20


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

Gunner Asch fired this volley in
:

http://www.comenaranjas.com/images/g...s-campos/nuest
ros-campos-3.jpg

Bingo... big trunks, big root balls.

LLoyd

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:02:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:12:00 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

Ive got at least 20 large orchards within 15 miles of the house.
Grapefruit also

We need oranges..we simply stop and pick. They are harvesting
now..though its late in the season and its only Valencias.

Most other oranges are late winter very early spring.

http://www.pickyourown.org/CAharvestcalendar.htm

Aha! I finally have a pick date: September and October in the North.

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

i

Ill bet when you pull up on the rail..its gonna bring a surprising
number of ties with it.


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."
================================================== =============

If the ties come with the rail, that's not so bad - brush off the dirt and
it exposes the spike heads and he can torch them off on the outside side of
the rail, as you suggested. Or maybe drive the tie back down with a
sledgehammer, pulling the spikes. The risk is that enough spikes hold so
that the ground suction is acting on the ties plus the rails, so that he
can't lift them them up above the surface without digging. As for cutting,
I think using a torch in the field would be most portable and efficient,
then cut selected rails with a saw into anvils back at the shop.

Iggy gets into the most interesting projects, it's always fun to spectate
and kibbitz :-).

-----
Regards,
Carl Ijames

Gunner Asch wrote:

But Ive got tons of other clamps.


I have to make some to lift a submersible pump that quit. I can't
afford to $170+ shipping, each


--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

Carl Ijames wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

i

Ill bet when you pull up on the rail..its gonna bring a surprising
number of ties with it.

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."
================================================== =============

If the ties come with the rail, that's not so bad - brush off the dirt and
it exposes the spike heads and he can torch them off on the outside side of
the rail, as you suggested. Or maybe drive the tie back down with a
sledgehammer, pulling the spikes. The risk is that enough spikes hold so
that the ground suction is acting on the ties plus the rails, so that he
can't lift them them up above the surface without digging. As for cutting,
I think using a torch in the field would be most portable and efficient,
then cut selected rails with a saw into anvils back at the shop.

Iggy gets into the most interesting projects, it's always fun to spectate
and kibbitz :-).


He should make offers to tear down all of the abandoned amusement
parks.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

"Ignoramus4035" wrote in message
...
On 2014-08-22, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 11:24 AM, dpb wrote:
On 08/22/2014 9:53 AM, Ed Huntress wrote:
...

Keep in mind that Iggy likely is getting somehing like $0.10/pound for
steel. Typical rail is on the order of 40 lbs./ft., or a little less.

Margins are slim. You have to move a lot of steel at very low overhead
to make any money.

Rail, if it's at all clean could probably be one of those things ig
could chop up into 6" or shorter chunks and sell for the big bucks on
eBay as the shop/bench anvil, etc., ...

At least that was my supposition of the intent as given the described
locale and bother hardly seems worth the effort for just scrap prices.


The way to make it worth the effort is to

Sucker others into helping you figure out how to do it.

avoid wasting time and

Get others to waste their ****ing time instead.

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:56:13 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Carl Ijames wrote:

"Gunner Asch" wrote in message
...

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

On 2014-08-22, wrote:
On Thursday, August 21, 2014 3:13:37 AM UTC, pyotr filipivich wrote:


Probably easier to pull the spikes out of the plates, then cut the

rails in place.

pyotr filipivich

"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

If you happen to have a ball joist tool ( See Harbor Freight item
1740 ) you might try using it to pull the spikes. It and a 2 to 4
lb hammer might be able to get the spikes out with a single blow.
So you might be able to get the rails free pretty rapidly. Knee
pads would be a good thing if you try that.

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

How long is the stretch of rail you are wanting to pull? If you
have a mile or so to pull it would be worth trying several things to
see what is fastest.

There are some freely laying around disconnected rails and 160 yards
of rails with ties submerged to the webs.

i

Ill bet when you pull up on the rail..its gonna bring a surprising
number of ties with it.

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."
================================================== =============

If the ties come with the rail, that's not so bad - brush off the dirt and
it exposes the spike heads and he can torch them off on the outside side of
the rail, as you suggested. Or maybe drive the tie back down with a
sledgehammer, pulling the spikes. The risk is that enough spikes hold so
that the ground suction is acting on the ties plus the rails, so that he
can't lift them them up above the surface without digging. As for cutting,
I think using a torch in the field would be most portable and efficient,
then cut selected rails with a saw into anvils back at the shop.

Iggy gets into the most interesting projects, it's always fun to spectate
and kibbitz :-).


He should make offers to tear down all of the abandoned amusement
parks.

Yeah, just get himself a demo license and use det cord to drop them
the fun and easy way!

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:11:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:02:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:12:00 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

Ive got at least 20 large orchards within 15 miles of the house.
Grapefruit also

We need oranges..we simply stop and pick. They are harvesting
now..though its late in the season and its only Valencias.

Most other oranges are late winter very early spring.

http://www.pickyourown.org/CAharvestcalendar.htm

Aha! I finally have a pick date: September and October in the North.

When you see "orange" in the trees...its pretty much a sign that they
are ready to be picked. Until they are near ripe..they are
green/greenish


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:54:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

But Ive got tons of other clamps.


I have to make some to lift a submersible pump that quit. I can't
afford to $170+ shipping, each

What do you need? Dont forget..I make Stuff well enough in my machine
and welding shops.


--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 13:18:32 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:11:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:02:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:12:00 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

Ive got at least 20 large orchards within 15 miles of the house.
Grapefruit also

We need oranges..we simply stop and pick. They are harvesting
now..though its late in the season and its only Valencias.

Most other oranges are late winter very early spring.

http://www.pickyourown.org/CAharvestcalendar.htm

Aha! I finally have a pick date: September and October in the North.

When you see "orange" in the trees...its pretty much a sign that they
are ready to be picked. Until they are near ripe..they are
green/greenish

This particular tree has some fully orange, and some fully green, with
some turning orange from green. Methinks it's a slice and dice tree.
Green D'anjou, Bosc, and maybe Bartlett.

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 16:36:51 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 13:18:32 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 15:11:18 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 12:02:52 -0700, Gunner Asch
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 19:12:00 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Thu, 21 Aug 2014 07:47:35 -0500, Ignoramus10365
wrote:

On 2014-08-21, Lloyd E. Sponenburgh lloydspinsidemindspring.com wrote:
Ignoramus14649 fired this volley in
:

This is quite clever. Have a leg down from the end of your boom, then
you can really apply enormous force without tipping.


Yeah, but guys have been 'popping' trees for decades with 26HP tractors
weighing 1800lb... you don't need a five ton tractor with a one-ton
counterweight!

I've pulled dozens of adult orange trees from clay-bearing soil with a
1948 Ford 8N tractor. Easy-peezy, if you know how (with NO damage to the
tractor or the driver).


I have never seen an orange tree, are they big or small?

I'll never forget the drives from Vista to L.A. At the curve in the
road where Ana(imal)heim lies, there were so many orange groves that
when the trees were in bloom, you could smell the sweet scent for
miles around. I wonder if that's why they called it Orange County...
We'd hit that spot and drop all the windows in the car to catch more
of it. Just heavenly! I like it so much that I still grow mock
orange (Philadelphus Lewisii, IIRC) here to smell the blossoms in the
spring.

Orange trees in LoCal were about 12' tall and round. There were maybe
40 or 50 groves in Vista, San Marcos, Fallbrook, and Escondido when I
was growing up there. Most of those have been uprooted and planted
with TickyTacky houses all in a row. Sickening.

http://hdwhub.com/orange-tree.html

Ive got at least 20 large orchards within 15 miles of the house.
Grapefruit also

We need oranges..we simply stop and pick. They are harvesting
now..though its late in the season and its only Valencias.

Most other oranges are late winter very early spring.

http://www.pickyourown.org/CAharvestcalendar.htm

Aha! I finally have a pick date: September and October in the North.

When you see "orange" in the trees...its pretty much a sign that they
are ready to be picked. Until they are near ripe..they are
green/greenish

This particular tree has some fully orange, and some fully green, with
some turning orange from green. Methinks it's a slice and dice tree.
Green D'anjou, Bosc, and maybe Bartlett.

Sure sounds like it. Grafted trees can be very Yummy! if done right.

Gunner

--
"Living in the United States now is like being a Tampon.
We're in a great place, just at a bad time."

On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070
wrote:

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?

http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7

$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?


Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig!

$673,560 for 300 yds!

--
The unexamined life is not worth living.
--Socrates

Gunner Asch wrote:

On Sat, 23 Aug 2014 23:54:41 -0400, "Michael A. Terrell"
wrote:


Gunner Asch wrote:

But Ive got tons of other clamps.


I have to make some to lift a submersible pump that quit. I can't
afford to $170+ shipping, each

What do you need? Dont forget..I make Stuff well enough in my machine
and welding shops.


I have to see what the pipe size is, but they use a clamp that both
holds the pipe, and sits on the well casing so you can rotate a pair of
clamps. The problem is the top is 1" iron but I don't know what kind of
pipe is in the casing. It could be iron, rigid plastic, or flexible
plastic and they vary in size.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/270700740216 is one type.

http://www.ebay.com/itm/271244674095 is another.

If it is the flexible pipe, it can be pulled by hand by a couple strong
people, and a third one to pull it away from the well head as they work.




http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=Sq-ra02GJVU#t=31
looks interesting.

--
Anyone wanting to run for any political office in the US should have to
have a DD214, and a honorable discharge.

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

--
jiw

OK, here's my news update. The rail tracks, despite being submerged, do
pull out with just the bobcat. No hydraulic assistance is needed, the
bobcat itself pulls them out. Some ties follow the rail occasionally,
but it is not so bad. The ties are rotten to the extreme.

We ended the day by puncturing the bobcat tire. I have some extras
though. The fun continues.

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:

The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails is cost
prohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??


"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:39:39 PM UTC, Ignoramus23152 wrote:
OK, here's my news update. The rail tracks, despite being submerged, do

pull out with just the bobcat. No hydraulic assistance is needed, the

bobcat itself pulls them out. Some ties follow the rail occasionally,

but it is not so bad. The ties are rotten to the extreme.

Glad to hear it is working out to be easier than it could have been.

You get a lot of flack about asking questions here instead of doing more research on your own, but I appreciate your posts. Much more interesting to read than the political posts.

Dan

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:39:39 -0500, Ignoramus23152
wrote:

OK, here's my news update. The rail tracks, despite being submerged, do
pull out with just the bobcat. No hydraulic assistance is needed, the
bobcat itself pulls them out. Some ties follow the rail occasionally,
but it is not so bad. The ties are rotten to the extreme.

That's great.


We ended the day by puncturing the bobcat tire. I have some extras
though. The fun continues.

Suckage. Front or rear? What's involved in removing a wheel to
replace a tire on a Bobcat? Can you use the hydraulics to lift it?

--
Life is an escalator:
You can move forward or backward;
you can not remain still.
-- Patricia Russell-McCloud

On 2014-08-26, wrote:
On Monday, August 25, 2014 10:39:39 PM UTC, Ignoramus23152 wrote:
OK, here's my news update. The rail tracks, despite being submerged, do

pull out with just the bobcat. No hydraulic assistance is needed, the

bobcat itself pulls them out. Some ties follow the rail occasionally,

but it is not so bad. The ties are rotten to the extreme.

Glad to hear it is working out to be easier than it could have been.

You get a lot of flack about asking questions here instead of doing
more research on your own, but I appreciate your posts. Much more
interesting to read than the political posts.

Thanks. Answers to questions like "how to pull old rails with
equipment you have" are almost impossible to find online due to

1) General lack of knowledge
2) Abundance of opinionated idiots unable to compose complete
sentences, especially often found on website forums
3) Situation specific issues

Two people gave me the correct advice, it was my railroad neighbors
and a scrapper who does business with railroads.

i

On 2014-08-26, Larry Jaques wrote:
wrote:

We ended the day by puncturing the bobcat tire. I have some extras
though. The fun continues.

Suckage. Front or rear? What's involved in removing a wheel to
replace a tire on a Bobcat? Can you use the hydraulics to lift it?


Rear. It is held by 8 bolts. We had a mechanical jack.

i

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:43:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails
is costprohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??

Typically the top surface is the work surface. But heavy rust on
supporting parts would kill a lot of sales, and removing it might
take more time than would pay off.

--
jiw

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:39:39 -0500, Ignoramus23152
wrote:

OK, here's my news update. The rail tracks, despite being submerged, do
pull out with just the bobcat. No hydraulic assistance is needed, the
bobcat itself pulls them out. Some ties follow the rail occasionally,
but it is not so bad. The ties are rotten to the extreme.

Good news! keep the group informed. A real life soap
opera....

We ended the day by puncturing the bobcat tire. I have some extras
though. The fun continues.
Saw you got it changed in another post. DIY or did you have
to call in the pros and was it patchable?


--
Unka' George

"Gold is the money of kings,
silver is the money of gentlemen,
barter is the money of peasants,
but debt is the money of slaves"

-Norm Franz, "Money and Wealth in the New Millenium"

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:30:31 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:43:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails
is costprohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??

Typically the top surface is the work surface. But heavy rust on
supporting parts would kill a lot of sales, and removing it might
take more time than would pay off.

Not with a bucket of molasses water.
Wirebrush the worst off, cut to size, dunk in bucket for 3 days to a
week, rinse, dry, paint the web, and sell.

--
Life is an escalator:
You can move forward or backward;
you can not remain still.
-- Patricia Russell-McCloud

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:06:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:30:31 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:43:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails
is costprohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??

Typically the top surface is the work surface. But heavy rust on
supporting parts would kill a lot of sales, and removing it might
take more time than would pay off.

Not with a bucket of molasses water.
Wirebrush the worst off, cut to size, dunk in bucket for 3 days to a
week, rinse, dry, paint the web, and sell.

If it's badly rusted (many are; I've rejected many scrap pieces from a
nearby maintenance yard), no amount of rust removal is going to help.
The ones I've seen are deeply pocketed and corroded.

The one I have is pristine. It was a cutoff from a new rail used in a
switch-repair job.

--
Ed Huntress

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:16:13 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus14649 wrote:
On 2014-08-20, Paul Drahn wrote:

I want to pull rails up from the ground. Otherwise I would have to dig

rocky ground just to get to the nails. It would be expensive.

I talked to a couple of people. My neighbors at the warehouse are

railroad people, and I asked one scrap yard who knows railway

scrapping.

They both told me that it should be easy to pull out and I should

first just try the bobcat. I have a Bobcat S300.

If that does not work, I will try a hydraulic puller. We built one

today for this job, maybe it will come up again. I will see how it

works out and maybe will post a video.

I took time off in college to earn money to continue college. Worked at

a local paper/pulp mill. They had a spur rail road running from the

mill, across town to the main rr line. I worked a few weeks on the

maintenance crew. Heavy, but interesting work.

Their rails were the standard 90 pounds per yard rail. Probably what you

have. You will most likely have to cut them at least in half to put on

your truck. Be careful with fire!

I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a

torch this is not difficult.


Good luck and would love to see the video!

I am all psyched up about it.

And I guess you have the rail jacks and crowbars and everything. I saw where someone was saying that the easiest way to cut hardened steel like all that is to anneal it with heat 'till red hot, then cool it while buried in ashes, then take a band saw or something to it pretty easily.

(I just don't what KIND of ashes are used, though)


================================================== ====
-- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...lworking-tools

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

On Wednesday, August 20, 2014 8:16:13 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus14649 wrote:
On 2014-08-20, Paul Drahn wrote:

I want to pull rails up from the ground. Otherwise I would have to dig

rocky ground just to get to the nails. It would be expensive.

I talked to a couple of people. My neighbors at the warehouse are

railroad people, and I asked one scrap yard who knows railway

scrapping.

They both told me that it should be easy to pull out and I should

first just try the bobcat. I have a Bobcat S300.

If that does not work, I will try a hydraulic puller. We built one

today for this job, maybe it will come up again. I will see how it

works out and maybe will post a video.

I took time off in college to earn money to continue college. Worked at

a local paper/pulp mill. They had a spur rail road running from the

mill, across town to the main rr line. I worked a few weeks on the

maintenance crew. Heavy, but interesting work.

Their rails were the standard 90 pounds per yard rail. Probably what you

have. You will most likely have to cut them at least in half to put on

your truck. Be careful with fire!

I may have to cut them even more to take them down safely. With a

torch this is not difficult.


Good luck and would love to see the video!

I am all psyched up about it.

And I guess you have the rail jacks and crowbars and everything. I saw where someone was saying that the easiest way to cut hardened steel like all that is to anneal it with heat 'till red hot, then cool it while buried in ashes, then take a band saw or something to it pretty easily.

(I just don't what KIND of ashes are used, though)


================================================= =====
-- http://www.sawmillcreek.org/showthre...lworking-tools


To anneal something the thickness of a railroad rail with an
oxy-acetylene torch would use more $$ worth of gas than the scrap
value of the steel.

An abrasive saw isn't going to care much about the hardness of a rail.
It's not that hard to begin with. New rails can be as hard as 43 Rc
(400 Brinell), but old rails were softer. They work harden a bit but
they are still retty soft under the top skin. I ground a piece down
into a really rounded blob, like a big auto-body dolly, and it took a
lot of grinding with my big Milwaukee grinder, but it would cut OK
with an abrasive saw.

If Iggy only has to cut longish sections to remove it, O/A cutting is
reasonable. And that doesn't care if the steel is hard or soft. If he
needs shorter sections that he can handle himself, it might be more
cost effective to use an abrasive saw. You'd have to try it to be
sure.

--
Ed Huntress

James Waldby on Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:30:31 +0000
(UTC) typed in rec.crafts.metalworking the following:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:43:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails
is costprohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??

Typically the top surface is the work surface. But heavy rust on
supporting parts would kill a lot of sales, and removing it might
take more time than would pay off.

If the rails are that rusted - then they are not worth salvaging.
Yeah, sure, I'd like a pristine section of rail, 'shining like a
national guitar'. I'd also like ice cold lemonade on hot days and to
be able to take my sweety out for dinner more than once a quarter. "So
what?"
--
pyotr filipivich
"With Age comes Wisdom. Although more often, Age travels alone."

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 06:06:42 -0700, Larry Jaques
wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:30:31 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby
wrote:

On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 17:43:47 -0700, Gunner Asch wrote:
On Mon, 25 Aug 2014 18:45:25 +0000 (UTC), James Waldby wrote:
On Sun, 24 Aug 2014 18:51:15 -0700, Larry Jaques wrote:
On Fri, 22 Aug 2014 11:04:54 -0500, Ignoramus7070 wrote:
The rails are submerged up to the webs, digging out nails
is costprohibitive.

Here's an idea. Lotta gall, that guy, eh?
http://tinyurl.com/qbfuxh7
$75 plus s/h for a couple inches of rail and 1/100oz paint?

Let's see, at $37.50 per inch (10 in/ft after grinding losses, $30 for
paint, $50 for grinding discs), you'd clear up to $37,420 for every
100' of track. Multiply by 18 for several hundred yards of track.
Gee, you'll clear 2/3 million easily, Ig! $673,560 for 300 yds!

If "submerged up to the webs" means that the bottom inch or so of the
rail is below ground surface, I imagine the ground is soft and wet on
occasion, and that the lower parts may be badly rusted. Depending on
how badly rusted the track is, cutting out sections for anvils may be
pointless.

Why? You beat on the bottom of an anvil??

Typically the top surface is the work surface. But heavy rust on
supporting parts would kill a lot of sales, and removing it might
take more time than would pay off.

Not with a bucket of molasses water.
Wirebrush the worst off, cut to size, dunk in bucket for 3 days to a
week, rinse, dry, paint the web, and sell.

That works. But so does a minute or 2 of applying one of Toms
excellent cup brushes via right angle grinder.

Shrug..no one buying track for an anvil gives a **** about it being
factory new.

Gunner

"At the core of liberalism is the spoiled child,
miserable, as all spoiled children are, unsatisfied,
demanding, ill-disciplined, despotic and useless.
Liberalism is a philosophy of sniveling brats."
PJ O'Rourke

On 2014-08-26, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
And I guess you have the rail jacks and crowbars and everything. I
saw where someone was saying that the easiest way to cut hardened
steel like all that is to anneal it with heat 'till red hot, then
cool it while buried in ashes, then take a band saw or something to
it pretty easily.

All you need to cut rail, is a oxyfuel torch. No ashes needed.

i

On 2014-08-26, Ed Huntress wrote:
If it's badly rusted (many are; I've rejected many scrap pieces from a
nearby maintenance yard), no amount of rust removal is going to help.
The ones I've seen are deeply pocketed and corroded.

The one I have is pristine. It was a cutoff from a new rail used in a
switch-repair job.


Some rails are badly corroded and pitted. One rail was laying above
ground and that one, looks like can be cut up into pieces that fit
into flat rate boxes and sold to the public.

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 18:07:42 -0500, Ignoramus26952
wrote:

On 2014-08-26, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:
And I guess you have the rail jacks and crowbars and everything. I
saw where someone was saying that the easiest way to cut hardened
steel like all that is to anneal it with heat 'till red hot, then
cool it while buried in ashes, then take a band saw or something to
it pretty easily.

All you need to cut rail, is a oxyfuel torch. No ashes needed.

i

Ah, you misattributed that to me.

--
Ed Huntress

On 8/26/2014 6:09 PM, Ignoramus26952 wrote:
On 2014-08-26, Ed Huntress wrote:
If it's badly rusted (many are; I've rejected many scrap pieces from a
nearby maintenance yard), no amount of rust removal is going to help.
The ones I've seen are deeply pocketed and corroded.

The one I have is pristine. It was a cutoff from a new rail used in a
switch-repair job.


Some rails are badly corroded and pitted. One rail was laying above
ground and that one, looks like can be cut up into pieces that fit
into flat rate boxes and sold to the public.

That is what a sand blaster is all about. Easy long and straight lines.
Martin

On Tuesday, August 26, 2014 7:07:42 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26952 wrote:
On 2014-08-26, Ed Huntress wrote:

On Tue, 26 Aug 2014 07:20:27 -0700 (PDT), wrote:

And I guess you have the rail jacks and crowbars and everything. I

saw where someone was saying that the easiest way to cut hardened

steel like all that is to anneal it with heat 'till red hot, then

cool it while buried in ashes, then take a band saw or something to

it pretty easily.

All you need to cut rail, is a oxyfuel torch. No ashes needed.

No, I think Ed's right. Its cheaper if you use grinder blades.

On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:03:34 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26736 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a

private property.


Most scrap yards will not accept rail as 99.999% of it is owned by a railroad, even on private property, even if it has been out of service for years.

You might want to find out if the local yard will accept it before pulling it up.

On 2014-09-05, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:03:34 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26736 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a

private property.


Most scrap yards will not accept rail as 99.999% of it is owned by a
railroad, even on private property, even if it has been out of
service for years.

You might want to find out if the local yard will accept it before pulling it up.

All rail has been scrapped. I negotiated the price with scrap yard
before pulling the rails.

i

On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:36:16 -0500, Ignoramus21905
wrote:

On 2014-09-05, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:03:34 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26736 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a

private property.


Most scrap yards will not accept rail as 99.999% of it is owned by a
railroad, even on private property, even if it has been out of
service for years.

You might want to find out if the local yard will accept it before pulling it up.

All rail has been scrapped. I negotiated the price with scrap yard
before pulling the rails.

i

That business about the railroads owning abandoned rails has become a
sort of mixed bag. If it's on unused right-of-way but they still have
rights to an easement, the railroad probably owns it. If they abandon
it, the terms of the original easement, and state law,determine
whether the railroad still owns anything on the right-of-way.

It sounds like you're unlikely to encounter any problems in your
situation, but if you ever do a bigger deal like this, you'd better
check with the county land office and see if the land is encumbered or
if there are ancient easements. If there's much money in it, someone
could give you trouble.

We had a bit of a battle over this in my town, over an abandoned
Lehigh Valley coal line that we converted to a "Rails to Trails"
project.

--
Ed Huntress

On 2014-09-08, Ed Huntress wrote:
On Mon, 08 Sep 2014 08:36:16 -0500, Ignoramus21905
wrote:

On 2014-09-05, wrote:
On Tuesday, August 19, 2014 10:03:34 PM UTC-4, Ignoramus26736 wrote:
As I mentioned earlier, I purchased some old railroad rails on a

private property.


Most scrap yards will not accept rail as 99.999% of it is owned by a
railroad, even on private property, even if it has been out of
service for years.

You might want to find out if the local yard will accept it before pulling it up.

All rail has been scrapped. I negotiated the price with scrap yard
before pulling the rails.

i

That business about the railroads owning abandoned rails has become a
sort of mixed bag. If it's on unused right-of-way but they still have
rights to an easement, the railroad probably owns it. If they abandon
it, the terms of the original easement, and state law,determine
whether the railroad still owns anything on the right-of-way.

It sounds like you're unlikely to encounter any problems in your
situation, but if you ever do a bigger deal like this, you'd better
check with the county land office and see if the land is encumbered or
if there are ancient easements. If there's much money in it, someone
could give you trouble.

We had a bit of a battle over this in my town, over an abandoned
Lehigh Valley coal line that we converted to a "Rails to Trails"
project.


Ed, when it comes to scrap, it is very often difficult to determine
who is the ultimate owner of equipment or material to be scrapped. For
example, a distant owner tells the local manager to "clean up the
place". Or, company A sold a building to company B, but claims to
still own copper wire in dedicated circuits, going to where company A
had its equipment. Or, as here, there are rotten and abandoned rails
on private property. Or, there is a building to be demolished and it
is not clear whether "Equipment in room 754b" also includes stainless
and copper piping under the ceiling, pumps and electronic control
equipment attached to that, 300 more feet of 4" copper pipe going to
the next room etc. Or, after an auction, my lot is missing, but I
offer to take down some 500 MCM wire going to an unused panel.

In all these cases, my number one concern is not to appear to be
stealing. To that end, I make sure that 1) I get a written receipt and
2) someone in position of authority knows where I am and what I am
doing, at least approximately.

I agree that, if or when it comes to dealing with larger rail
installations, a deeper research would be warranted.

i