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#1
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 |
#2
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 18, 8:01*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 You don't say if the "meter" is an analog meter with a needle/pointer or an electronic meter that displays line voltage with a digital readout. A short sudden burst of high voltage, just for one or two cycles, 30 milliseconds or so, might be happeneing on a semi-regular basis without being visible, but would strain the bulbs. A check of the voltage when a heavy user of electricity is plugged in, such as an electric iron turned to the highest heat, should indicate if there is a general distribution problem, plug the iron in to outlets on the same phase and on the other phase of the 230V lines coming into the unit, and tell us what you find. |
#3
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:01:51 -0400, Rebel1
wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Two things you need. First is an accurate meter. The other is the recording at various hours. I had a similar problem and checked voltage. It seems that at about 6 AM, it would spike 130 to 140, then settle down to 120. Once call to the power company solved the problem. They were increasing power in the morning for industry coming on line, but our feed was going too high. I'd also check for proper grounding. |
#4
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 18, 9:01*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with Yes. Light bulbs always burn out when the switch is turned on. That is when the stress on a filament is the highest. I have not seen a case where voltage swings caused incandescent bulbs to burn out. Not saying there couldn't be, but I haven't run into it. What I've seen cause it was mainly two things: screwing the bulb in too hard, and vibration. If you screw the bulb in too tight, you flatten the contact at the bottom and then you have to always screw the bulbs in too tight. The connection between base and bulb is easily compromised. Bulbs should be inserted with the power on, and tightened ONLY 1/8 turn past contact. If the contact is flattened, bend it out (with the power OFF). |
#5
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Hmmm, Is it an old building? Aluminum wiring? There could be many loose connections throughout the building from main power entry point and on. |
#6
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to the
power company might bring some helpers with equipment and experience. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message ... Two things you need. First is an accurate meter. The other is the recording at various hours. I had a similar problem and checked voltage. It seems that at about 6 AM, it would spike 130 to 140, then settle down to 120. Once call to the power company solved the problem. They were increasing power in the morning for industry coming on line, but our feed was going too high. I'd also check for proper grounding. |
#8
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/18/2011 10:12 PM, TimR wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:01 pm, wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with Yes. Light bulbs always burn out when the switch is turned on. That is when the stress on a filament is the highest. I have not seen a case where voltage swings caused incandescent bulbs to burn out. Not saying there couldn't be, but I haven't run into it. What I've seen cause it was mainly two things: screwing the bulb in too hard, and vibration. If you screw the bulb in too tight, you flatten the contact at the bottom and then you have to always screw the bulbs in too tight. The connection between base and bulb is easily compromised. Bulbs should be inserted with the power on, and tightened ONLY 1/8 turn past contact. If the contact is flattened, bend it out (with the power OFF). Thanks for the good tip. |
#9
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/18/2011 10:33 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to the power company might bring some helpers with equipment and experience. As I recall, I did test the duplex outlets with one of those three- light testers that detects reversed hot and neutral, as well a missing grounds. Everything okay. |
#10
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/18/2011 10:18 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:
Is it an old building? Aluminum wiring? There could be many loose connections throughout the building from main power entry point and on. The work for this apartment unit was done within the last 10 years or so, so not likely to be aluminum wiring. There may be aluminum in the older parts of the building. I'll check this Saturday or Sunday. Thanks. |
#11
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 2:01*am, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Over-voltage is the commonest reason. Are there any sources of vibration? (eg Traffic) Are there any large inductors (motors) operated in the nieghbourhood? Also it's possible for a loose electrical connection somewhere to cause problems. Are the bulbs likely to be overheated by external factors or in small enclosures? Frequent switching reduces lifespan. Or you could just have a bad batch of bulbs. |
#12
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
Call the county inspecter & OSHA & have the place comdemed !
Jerry |
#13
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast,
usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. *Replace the socket on the light fixture or replace the light fixture. If the rivets in the base of the socket loosen, there is some additional heat being generated from the arcing. That heat will conduct to the filament and cause the bulb to burn out prematurely. Vibration can also cause premature bulb failure. Use fan bulbs in the ceiling fan if you aren't already. |
#14
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments. |
#15
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/19/2011 7:29 AM, John Grabowski wrote:
*Replace the socket on the light fixture or replace the light fixture. If the rivets in the base of the socket loosen, there is some additional heat being generated from the arcing. That heat will conduct to the filament and cause the bulb to burn out prematurely. Vibration can also cause premature bulb failure. Use fan bulbs in the ceiling fan if you aren't already. Excellent suggestion, about the rivets. I'll investigate next time I'm there (this weekend). I didn't know there were such things as fan bulbs, especially for standard base sockets. I don't think she uses the fan very much, but its three light bulbs are the main source of illumination for the kitchen. Thanks, R1 |
#16
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
Three bulb tester would not pick up on it. Typical house
power has two "hot" wires, and a neutral. If the neutral is not properly connected, sometimes the power is unbalanced. One leg might be showing 130 volts, the other showing 90 volts. Depending on what appliances are being used. Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if the voltage spikes and dips. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Rebel1" wrote in message ... On 10/18/2011 10:33 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote: I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to the power company might bring some helpers with equipment and experience. As I recall, I did test the duplex outlets with one of those three- light testers that detects reversed hot and neutral, as well a missing grounds. Everything okay. |
#17
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/19/2011 7:37 AM, HeyBub wrote:
Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments. That would certainly reduce the stress on the kitchen bulbs, but at least two of the other lights are controlled by 3-way switches. |
#18
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 18, 8:01 pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, u Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Andy comments: After trying the voltage related solutions suggested by the other posters, there is another item that may not have been covered.... (I haven't read every reply) Vibration puts stress on the bulb filament . Bulbs in ceiling fans and utility lights are especially susceptible to the "subtle" vibrations they see. Who among us hasn't dropped a utility light on the ground only to see the bulb fizzle out ? On additional solution is to buy bulbs classified as "rough service" bulbs, which are designed to be used in areas where shocks and vibrations may occur. They cost a little more, but may be a solution to your problem...... Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress, and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations...... Andy in Eureka, PE |
#19
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 |
#20
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder.
Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will find a brand of bulb that lasts longer. CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "Andy" wrote in message ... Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress, and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations...... Andy in Eureka, PE |
#21
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 10:06*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder. Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will find a brand of bulb that lasts longer. CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "Andy" wrote in message ... * *Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress, and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations...... * * * * * * * * * * * * Andy in Eureka, *PE use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last forever....... |
#22
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 9:22*am, bob haller wrote:
On Oct 19, 10:06*am, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder. Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will find a brand of bulb that lasts longer. CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus *www.lds.org . "Andy" wrote in message .... * *Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress, and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations...... * * * * * * * * * * * * Andy in Eureka, *PE use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last forever.......- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - Well, almost forever, if you get one of the bulbs from a NAME manufacturer like Phillips or GE , The no-name CFL brands sold in many stores can be good or junk, there's no way to tell. |
#23
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do
NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. these bulbs get far less use than those in kitchens and living rooms...... the more on off the shorter the life |
#24
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
I've seen CFL at the dollar tree.
The one in my porch light is on 24/7, and has needed to be replaced at least once. I wouldn't say forever, but for a very long time. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. "bob haller" wrote in message ... use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last forever....... |
#25
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:59:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote: Three bulb tester would not pick up on it. Typical house power has two "hot" wires, and a neutral. If the neutral is not properly connected, sometimes the power is unbalanced. One leg might be showing 130 volts, the other showing 90 volts. Depending on what appliances are being used. He measured the voltage, no? That's all that should be required. With a missing neutral, if one side is high, the other leg should be equally low. Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if the voltage spikes and dips. |
#26
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On 10/19/2011 6:09 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/19/2011 7:37 AM, HeyBub wrote: Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments. That would certainly reduce the stress on the kitchen bulbs, but at least two of the other lights are controlled by 3-way switches. they make 3 way dimmers |
#27
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 9:22 am, bob haller wrote:
On Oct 19, 10:06 am, "Stormin Mormon" wrote: About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder. Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will find a brand of bulb that lasts longer. CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org . "Andy" wrote in message ... Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress, and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations...... Andy in Eureka, PE use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last forever....... Andy writes: Yeah, I get them at Home Depot for about $5 for a pack of four (60w) I haven't had one go out yet, tho a couple I've gotten from Dollar Stores long ago have failed..... CFLs may have a filament to start the ionization, but it isn't the primary light source, and doesn't have to be kept near melting temperature for more than an instant.... I really really like LEDs, but they are just too damn expensive now. I only use them for flashlights and nite lights.... Andy in Eureka, Texas |
#28
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
I don't remember if the OP has mentioned checking his
voltages. -- Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .. wrote in message ... He measured the voltage, no? That's all that should be required. With a missing neutral, if one side is high, the other leg should be equally low. Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if the voltage spikes and dips. |
#29
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
*If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb. Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance. So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service bulb that is made with a heavier filament. Bzzzzt. the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged... Mark |
#30
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 7:35 pm, Mark wrote:
If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb. Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance. So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service bulb that is made with a heavier filament. Bzzzzt. the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged... Mark Andy replies What you say makes sense to me.... I just cut and pasted the above from a manufacturer's website.... Of course, you are assuming that the filaments are made of the same composition, alloy, etc. I don't know if that is true, not being a light bulb filament designer... I would think that if the filaments are the same length, and the bulbs are the same volume, and the vacuum is the same, the one that gets the hottest (most light) would be the most delicate and most likely to burn out sooner. Just a thought experiment, tho... Thanks for your comments...It's good to get another point of view... Andy in Eureka, Texas |
#31
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 12:10*am, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:34 PM, hr(bob) wrote: On Oct 18, 8:01 pm, *wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 You don't say if the "meter" is an analog meter with a needle/pointer or an electronic meter that displays line voltage with a digital readout. *A short sudden burst of high voltage, just for one or two cycles, 30 milliseconds or so, might be happeneing on a semi-regular basis without being visible, but would strain the bulbs. This is the meter.http://www.lightinguniverse.com/addi...i-plug-in-line... Clearly, it will miss short spikes. (BTW, I only paid about $20 for it.) A check of the voltage when a heavy user of electricity is plugged in, such as an electric iron turned to the highest heat, should indicate if there is a general distribution problem, plug the iron in to outlets on the same phase and on the other phase of the 230V lines coming into the unit, and tell us what you find. I won't be back in the apartment until the weekend. I don't know if I can access the circuit breakers to get at the other phase. They may not even be located in her apartment. As I said, these are illegal units in the sense that they don't have permits and inspections, and I don't know how knowledgeable the workers were. R1- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - I wouldnt worry too much about the spikes but tighten down the neutrals in your breaker box. Loose neutrlas can cause some interesting problems, like when my wife complained of her portable radio not working then it smoked when she used the toaster. Im glad we were living in an apartment when that happened. Kitchen outlets were on shared neutral circuits... this can put 240 at a 120 outlet Jimmie |
#32
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Light bulbs burn out too fast
On Oct 19, 7:55*pm, Andy wrote:
On Oct 19, 7:35 pm, Mark wrote: *If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb. Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance. So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service bulb that is made with a heavier filament. Bzzzzt. the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged... Mark Andy replies * *What you say makes sense to me.... I just cut and pasted the above from a manufacturer's website.... * * Of course, you are assuming that the filaments are made of the same composition, alloy, etc. *I don't know if that is true, not being a light bulb filament designer... * * *I would think that if the filaments are the same length, and the bulbs are the same volume, and the vacuum is the same, the one that gets the hottest (most light) would be the most delicate and most likely to burn out sooner. Just a thought experiment, tho... * * Thanks for your comments...It's good to get another point of view... * * * * * * * * * *Andy in Eureka, Texas Mark is correct |
#33
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built in 1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years ago became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit breakers that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen fan/light. That breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible that aluminum wiring was used in the original building. I'll check when I examine the breakers in the garage. At this point,the problems a 1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other second-floor apartment, and 2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take my o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report my findings. R1 |
#34
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
On Oct 20, 3:13*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote: On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built in 1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years ago became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit breakers that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen fan/light. That breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible that aluminum wiring was used in the original building. I'll check when I examine the breakers in the garage. At this point,the problems a 1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other second-floor apartment, and 2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take my o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report my findings. R1- Hide quoted text - - Show quoted text - aha - This is the first time you gave any indication that you were especially knowledgeable about noise spikes and oscopes. |
#35
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
On Oct 19, 9:27*am, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 You shouldn't be touching anything in this "apartment" your friend should report the issue to the landlord who can either rectify it or eventually have the issue reported to the building inspector who would probably immediately condemn the entire building for the illegal occupancies... The landlord has someone they can vilify (a.k.a. YOU ) as someone who was tampering with the wiring without any authorization if the building suffers any sort of electrical fire in that unit... If your friend is that concerned about the cost of light bulbs he can do one of several things: 1.) Leave the offending socket with a dead lamp in it and not worry about it until it catches on fire... 2.) Demand that the landlord either fix the problem or keep him supplied with free light bulbs... 3.) Report it to the building inspector and watch as his landlord gets in serious trouble... ~~ Evan |
#36
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
"Rebel1" wrote in message ... On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote: On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built in 1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years ago became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit breakers that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen fan/light. That breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible that aluminum wiring was used in the original building. I'll check when I examine the breakers in the garage. At this point,the problems a 1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other second-floor apartment, and 2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take my o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report my findings. R1 Earlier, there was a post that mentioned vibration. My experience is that bulb vibration failures are more common than high voltage or spike problems. That particularly applies here because the main problem bulb is in a fan. One solution is to use a "vibration service" bulb which has extra filament supports and thicker filament wire. Sometimes such bulbs are packaged as ceiling fan bulbs. Noise, which causes vibration, can be the culprit too. Traffic and aircraft noise can be picked up by the walls and ceilings of a building and cause them to vibrate which shakes the filament. New bulbs are not particularly sensitive; but, as the bulb burns, the filament becomes thinner and more brittle, so the bulb burns out early. TKM |
#37
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info
On 10/22/2011 12:38 AM, Evan wrote:
On Oct 19, 9:27 am, wrote: On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote: This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone. Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two. I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed into the socket. This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code violations. Thanks for you suggestions/comments. R1 Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend. It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the other rental units do not burn out prematurely. My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days. R1 You shouldn't be touching anything in this "apartment" your friend should report the issue to the landlord who can either rectify it or eventually have the issue reported to the building inspector who would probably immediately condemn the entire building for the illegal occupancies... The landlord has someone they can vilify (a.k.a. YOU ) as someone who was tampering with the wiring without any authorization if the building suffers any sort of electrical fire in that unit... If your friend is that concerned about the cost of light bulbs he can do one of several things: 1.) Leave the offending socket with a dead lamp in it and not worry about it until it catches on fire... 2.) Demand that the landlord either fix the problem or keep him supplied with free light bulbs... 3.) Report it to the building inspector and watch as his landlord gets in serious trouble... ~~ Evan Problem is, the tenant is a life-long friend of the landlady. She even went so far as to say she would give her life for the landlady. I don't know what event, decades ago, created such a strong bond. Even though the landlady lives in the same building, my friend and her rarely see each other. Yet that bond remains. So calling the building inspector is not an option. Yesterday, I replaced a closet light fixture. Cost only $5.97+7% sales tax. My friend wouldn't even deduct that trivial amount from the next rent check. It will be interesting when the town undergoes a complete revaluation. There is a deck and shed added without permits. Then there are illegal apartments. I don't know if any town-wide revaluation is scheduled. But I certainly wouldn't want to be in the landlady's shoes. |
#38
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Light bulbs burn out too fast - Weekend results
I examined the line voltage with an oscilloscope, hoping to find it
loaded with spikes or have an oddball shape (triangle-like or clipped). Looked perfect, both from black to white and black to green. Next time I'll check the circuit breaker box for loose connections. Even though the voltage measures about 120, I'll get her 130V long-life bulbs. I turns out that the bulbs that go the soonest are the ones that are switched on most often. In the kitchen fan, which is rarely used, I pulled up the center contact in the one socket (out of three) whose bulb blows most often. When I replaced the bulb, I did it with the power on and tightened the bulb just about 1/4 turn past the point it lit, as someone suggested, to prevent overtightening. I can't see an easy way to replace just the socket, and replacing the whole fan assembly is too expensive and not worth the effort. Thanks, everyone, for the interesting comments and suggestions. R1 |
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