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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 18, 8:01*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


You don't say if the "meter" is an analog meter with a needle/pointer
or an electronic meter that displays line voltage with a digital
readout. A short sudden burst of high voltage, just for one or two
cycles, 30 milliseconds or so, might be happeneing on a semi-regular
basis without being visible, but would strain the bulbs.

A check of the voltage when a heavy user of electricity is plugged in,
such as an electric iron turned to the highest heat, should indicate
if there is a general distribution problem, plug the iron in to
outlets on the same phase and on the other phase of the 230V lines
coming into the unit, and tell us what you find.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Tue, 18 Oct 2011 21:01:51 -0400, Rebel1
wrote:

This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.



Two things you need. First is an accurate meter. The other is the
recording at various hours.

I had a similar problem and checked voltage. It seems that at about 6
AM, it would spike 130 to 140, then settle down to 120. Once call to
the power company solved the problem. They were increasing power in
the morning for industry coming on line, but our feed was going too
high.

I'd also check for proper grounding.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 18, 9:01*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with


Yes. Light bulbs always burn out when the switch is turned on. That
is when the stress on a filament is the highest.

I have not seen a case where voltage swings caused incandescent bulbs
to burn out. Not saying there couldn't be, but I haven't run into it.

What I've seen cause it was mainly two things: screwing the bulb in
too hard, and vibration.

If you screw the bulb in too tight, you flatten the contact at the
bottom and then you have to always screw the bulbs in too tight. The
connection between base and bulb is easily compromised. Bulbs should
be inserted with the power on, and tightened ONLY 1/8 turn past
contact. If the contact is flattened, bend it out (with the power
OFF).



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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast



Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1

Hmmm,
Is it an old building? Aluminum wiring? There could be many loose
connections throughout the building from main power entry point and
on.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to the
power company might bring some helpers with equipment and
experience.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Ed Pawlowski" wrote in message
...

Two things you need. First is an accurate meter. The other
is the
recording at various hours.

I had a similar problem and checked voltage. It seems that
at about 6
AM, it would spike 130 to 140, then settle down to 120.
Once call to
the power company solved the problem. They were increasing
power in
the morning for industry coming on line, but our feed was
going too
high.

I'd also check for proper grounding.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/18/2011 9:34 PM, hr(bob) wrote:
On Oct 18, 8:01 pm, wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


You don't say if the "meter" is an analog meter with a needle/pointer
or an electronic meter that displays line voltage with a digital
readout. A short sudden burst of high voltage, just for one or two
cycles, 30 milliseconds or so, might be happeneing on a semi-regular
basis without being visible, but would strain the bulbs.


This is the meter.
http://www.lightinguniverse.com/addi...linkLoc=access

Clearly, it will miss short spikes. (BTW, I only paid about $20 for it.)


A check of the voltage when a heavy user of electricity is plugged in,
such as an electric iron turned to the highest heat, should indicate
if there is a general distribution problem, plug the iron in to
outlets on the same phase and on the other phase of the 230V lines
coming into the unit, and tell us what you find.


I won't be back in the apartment until the weekend. I don't know if I
can access the circuit breakers to get at the other phase. They may not
even be located in her apartment. As I said, these are illegal units in
the sense that they don't have permits and inspections, and I don't know
how knowledgeable the workers were.

R1



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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/18/2011 10:12 PM, TimR wrote:
On Oct 18, 9:01 pm, wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with


Yes. Light bulbs always burn out when the switch is turned on. That
is when the stress on a filament is the highest.

I have not seen a case where voltage swings caused incandescent bulbs
to burn out. Not saying there couldn't be, but I haven't run into it.

What I've seen cause it was mainly two things: screwing the bulb in
too hard, and vibration.

If you screw the bulb in too tight, you flatten the contact at the
bottom and then you have to always screw the bulbs in too tight. The
connection between base and bulb is easily compromised. Bulbs should
be inserted with the power on, and tightened ONLY 1/8 turn past
contact. If the contact is flattened, bend it out (with the power
OFF).


Thanks for the good tip.

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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/18/2011 10:33 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to the
power company might bring some helpers with equipment and
experience.

As I recall, I did test the duplex outlets with one of those three-
light testers that detects reversed hot and neutral, as well a missing
grounds. Everything okay.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/18/2011 10:18 PM, Tony Hwang wrote:

Is it an old building? Aluminum wiring? There could be many loose
connections throughout the building from main power entry point and
on.


The work for this apartment unit was done within the last 10 years or
so, so not likely to be aluminum wiring. There may be aluminum in the
older parts of the building. I'll check this Saturday or Sunday. Thanks.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 2:01*am, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


Over-voltage is the commonest reason.
Are there any sources of vibration? (eg Traffic)
Are there any large inductors (motors) operated in the nieghbourhood?
Also it's possible for a loose electrical connection somewhere to
cause problems.
Are the bulbs likely to be overheated by external factors or in small
enclosures?
Frequent switching reduces lifespan.
Or you could just have a bad batch of bulbs.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

Call the county inspecter & OSHA & have the place comdemed !

Jerry

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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too fast,
usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with a
plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The needle
stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live there,
but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but there
is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high voltage.
There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't fully screwed
into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.



*Replace the socket on the light fixture or replace the light fixture. If
the rivets in the base of the socket loosen, there is some additional heat
being generated from the arcing. That heat will conduct to the filament and
cause the bulb to burn out prematurely. Vibration can also cause premature
bulb failure. Use fan bulbs in the ceiling fan if you aren't already.

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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage
with a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to
130. The needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts).
I don't live there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it
stays in the green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three
light bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out,
again when power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many
code violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.


Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a
dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/19/2011 7:29 AM, John Grabowski wrote:


*Replace the socket on the light fixture or replace the light fixture.
If the rivets in the base of the socket loosen, there is some additional
heat being generated from the arcing. That heat will conduct to the
filament and cause the bulb to burn out prematurely. Vibration can also
cause premature bulb failure. Use fan bulbs in the ceiling fan if you
aren't already.


Excellent suggestion, about the rivets. I'll investigate next time I'm
there (this weekend). I didn't know there were such things as fan bulbs,
especially for standard base sockets. I don't think she uses the fan
very much, but its three light bulbs are the main source of illumination
for the kitchen.

Thanks,

R1


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

Three bulb tester would not pick up on it. Typical house
power has two "hot" wires, and a neutral. If the neutral is
not properly connected, sometimes the power is unbalanced.
One leg might be showing 130 volts, the other showing 90
volts. Depending on what appliances are being used.

Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if
the voltage spikes and dips.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Rebel1" wrote in message
...
On 10/18/2011 10:33 PM, Stormin Mormon wrote:
I was thinking floating neutral. In any case, a call to
the
power company might bring some helpers with equipment and
experience.

As I recall, I did test the duplex outlets with one of those
three-
light testers that detects reversed hot and neutral, as well
a missing
grounds. Everything okay.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/19/2011 7:37 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a
dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments.


That would certainly reduce the stress on the kitchen bulbs, but at
least two of the other lights are controlled by 3-way switches.


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 18, 8:01 pm, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, u

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


Andy comments:
After trying the voltage related solutions suggested by the
other posters, there is another item that may not have been
covered.... (I haven't read every reply)

Vibration puts stress on the bulb filament . Bulbs in ceiling
fans and utility lights are especially susceptible to the
"subtle" vibrations they see. Who among us hasn't dropped
a utility light on the ground only to see the bulb fizzle out ?

On additional solution is to buy bulbs classified as "rough
service"
bulbs, which are designed to be used in areas where shocks and
vibrations
may occur. They cost a little more, but may be a solution to your
problem......

Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament stress,
and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations......

Andy in Eureka, PE

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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info

On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.

My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.

R1

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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder.
Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the
grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will
find a brand of bulb that lasts longer.

CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"Andy" wrote in message
...

Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament
stress,
and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations......

Andy in Eureka, PE




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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 10:06*am, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:
About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder.
Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the
grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will
find a brand of bulb that lasts longer.

CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.

"Andy" wrote in message

...

* *Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament
stress,
and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations......

* * * * * * * * * * * * Andy in Eureka, *PE


use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last
forever.......
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 9:22*am, bob haller wrote:
On Oct 19, 10:06*am, "Stormin Mormon"





wrote:
About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder.
Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the
grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will
find a brand of bulb that lasts longer.


CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
*www.lds.org
.


"Andy" wrote in message


....


* *Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament
stress,
and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations......


* * * * * * * * * * * * Andy in Eureka, *PE


use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last
forever.......- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


Well, almost forever, if you get one of the bulbs from a NAME
manufacturer like Phillips or GE , The no-name CFL brands sold in many
stores can be good or junk, there's no way to tell.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do
NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway.

these bulbs get far less use than those in kitchens and living
rooms......

the more on off the shorter the life
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

I've seen CFL at the dollar tree.

The one in my porch light is on 24/7, and has needed to be
replaced at least once. I wouldn't say forever, but for a
very long time.

--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
..


"bob haller" wrote in message
...

use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy
but last
forever.......


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Wed, 19 Oct 2011 08:59:38 -0400, "Stormin Mormon"
wrote:

Three bulb tester would not pick up on it. Typical house
power has two "hot" wires, and a neutral. If the neutral is
not properly connected, sometimes the power is unbalanced.
One leg might be showing 130 volts, the other showing 90
volts. Depending on what appliances are being used.


He measured the voltage, no? That's all that should be required. With a
missing neutral, if one side is high, the other leg should be equally low.

Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if
the voltage spikes and dips.




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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On 10/19/2011 6:09 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/19/2011 7:37 AM, HeyBub wrote:

Replace the switch(es) with dimmer(s). The half-second or so to twist a
dimmer to full power should put less strain on the filaments.


That would certainly reduce the stress on the kitchen bulbs, but at
least two of the other lights are controlled by 3-way switches.


they make 3 way dimmers
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 9:22 am, bob haller wrote:
On Oct 19, 10:06 am, "Stormin Mormon"



wrote:
About the year 1988, I had a lamp over my bench grinder.
Phillips lights would blow the instant I turned on the
grinder. GE brand bulbs would be fine. Perhaps the OP will
find a brand of bulb that lasts longer.


CFL have a heater filament, which might be a concern.


--
Christopher A. Young
Learn more about Jesus
www.lds.org
.


"Andy" wrote in message


...


Also, CFL and LEDs don't have the problem with filament
stress,
and are usually more tolerant of voltage variations......


Andy in Eureka, PE


use CFLs they are now pretty cheap and not only save energy but last
forever.......


Andy writes:
Yeah, I get them at Home Depot for about $5 for a pack of four
(60w)
I haven't had one go out yet, tho a couple I've gotten from Dollar
Stores
long ago have failed.....
CFLs may have a filament to start the ionization, but it isn't
the
primary light source, and doesn't have to be kept near melting
temperature for more than an instant....

I really really like LEDs, but they are just too damn expensive now.
I
only use them for flashlights and nite lights....

Andy in Eureka, Texas
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I don't remember if the OP has mentioned checking his
voltages.

--
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Learn more about Jesus
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..


wrote in message
...


He measured the voltage, no? That's all that should be
required. With a
missing neutral, if one side is high, the other leg should
be equally low.

Others have suggested to watch with volt meter, and see if
the voltage spikes and dips.



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*If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower
wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb.
Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more
current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance.
So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be
heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service
bulb that is made with a heavier filament.


Bzzzzt.

the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier
filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged...

Mark

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On Oct 19, 7:35 pm, Mark wrote:
If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower
wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb.
Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more
current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance.
So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be
heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service
bulb that is made with a heavier filament.


Bzzzzt.

the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier
filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged...

Mark


Andy replies
What you say makes sense to me.... I just cut and pasted
the above from a manufacturer's website....

Of course, you are assuming that the filaments are made of the
same composition, alloy, etc. I don't know if that is true, not being
a light bulb filament designer...

I would think that if the filaments are the same length, and the
bulbs are the same volume, and the vacuum is the same, the one
that gets the hottest (most light) would be the most delicate and
most likely to burn out sooner.
Just a thought experiment, tho...

Thanks for your comments...It's good to get another point
of view...

Andy in Eureka, Texas


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 12:10*am, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:34 PM, hr(bob) wrote:





On Oct 18, 8:01 pm, *wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.


Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.


I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.


This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.


Thanks for you suggestions/comments.


R1


You don't say if the "meter" is an analog meter with a needle/pointer
or an electronic meter that displays line voltage with a digital
readout. *A short sudden burst of high voltage, just for one or two
cycles, 30 milliseconds or so, might be happeneing on a semi-regular
basis without being visible, but would strain the bulbs.


This is the meter.http://www.lightinguniverse.com/addi...i-plug-in-line...

Clearly, it will miss short spikes. (BTW, I only paid about $20 for it.)

A check of the voltage when a heavy user of electricity is plugged in,
such as an electric iron turned to the highest heat, should indicate
if there is a general distribution problem, plug the iron in to
outlets on the same phase and on the other phase of the 230V lines
coming into the unit, and tell us what you find.


I won't be back in the apartment until the weekend. I don't know if I
can access the circuit breakers to get at the other phase. They may not
even be located in her apartment. As I said, these are illegal units in
the sense that they don't have permits and inspections, and I don't know
how knowledgeable the workers were.

R1- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


I wouldnt worry too much about the spikes but tighten down the
neutrals in your breaker box. Loose neutrlas can cause some
interesting problems, like when my wife complained of her portable
radio not working then it smoked when she used the toaster. Im glad
we were living in an apartment when that happened. Kitchen outlets
were on shared neutral circuits... this can put 240 at a 120 outlet

Jimmie
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast

On Oct 19, 7:55*pm, Andy wrote:
On Oct 19, 7:35 pm, Mark wrote:

*If you are burning bulbs to frequently you also might try using lower
wattage bulbs. A 40 W bulb has a higher resistance than a 100 W bulb.
Both bulbs will have the same voltage, the 100 W bulb must have more
current. And that means the 100 W bulb must have a lower resistance.
So the filament for the higher resistance 40 W filament must be
heavier or have a smaller cross section. There is also a rough service
bulb that is made with a heavier filament.


Bzzzzt.


the 100 Watt bulb will have a lower resistance and therefore a heavier
filament and thicker cross section and be more rugged...


Mark


Andy replies
* *What you say makes sense to me.... I just cut and pasted
the above from a manufacturer's website....

* * Of course, you are assuming that the filaments are made of the
same composition, alloy, etc. *I don't know if that is true, not being
a light bulb filament designer...

* * *I would think that if the filaments are the same length, and the
bulbs are the same volume, and the vacuum is the same, the one
that gets the hottest (most light) would be the most delicate and
most likely to burn out sooner.
Just a thought experiment, tho...

* * Thanks for your comments...It's good to get another point
of view...

* * * * * * * * * *Andy in Eureka, Texas


Mark is correct
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info

On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.

My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.

R1


It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built
in 1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years
ago became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit
breakers that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen
fan/light. That breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible
that aluminum wiring was used in the original building. I'll check when
I examine the breakers in the garage.

At this point,the problems a
1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is
located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other
second-floor apartment, and
2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take
my o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report
my findings.

R1


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info

On Oct 20, 3:13*pm, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote:





On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.


Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.


I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.


This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.


Thanks for you suggestions/comments.


R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.


It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.


My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.


R1


It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built
in 1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years
ago became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit
breakers that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen
fan/light. That breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible
that aluminum wiring was used in the original building. I'll check when
I examine the breakers in the garage.

At this point,the problems a
1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is
located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other
second-floor apartment, and
2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take
my o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report
my findings.

R1- Hide quoted text -

- Show quoted text -


aha - This is the first time you gave any indication that you were
especially knowledgeable about noise spikes and oscopes.
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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info

On Oct 19, 9:27*am, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:



This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.


Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.


I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.


This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.


Thanks for you suggestions/comments.


R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.

My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.

R1


You shouldn't be touching anything in this "apartment" your friend
should report the issue to the landlord who can either rectify it or
eventually have the issue reported to the building inspector who
would probably immediately condemn the entire building for the
illegal occupancies...

The landlord has someone they can vilify (a.k.a. YOU ) as someone
who was tampering with the wiring without any authorization if
the building suffers any sort of electrical fire in that unit...

If your friend is that concerned about the cost of light bulbs he can
do one of several things:

1.) Leave the offending socket with a dead lamp in it and not
worry about it until it catches on fire...

2.) Demand that the landlord either fix the problem or keep him
supplied with free light bulbs...

3.) Report it to the building inspector and watch as his landlord
gets in serious trouble...

~~ Evan


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info


"Rebel1" wrote in message
...
On 10/19/2011 9:27 AM, Rebel1 wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:
This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.

Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.

I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.

This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.

Thanks for you suggestions/comments.

R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.

My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.

R1


It turns out that the kitchen fan was part of the original house, built in
1976. At that time, it was probably just a bedroom fan, which 9 years ago
became subdivided to create a new apartment. None of the circuit breakers
that control the rest of the apartment affect the kitchen fan/light. That
breaker is probably in the garage. So it is possible that aluminum wiring
was used in the original building. I'll check when I examine the breakers
in the garage.

At this point,the problems a
1) just a single bulb in the kitchen fan burns out prematurely, which is
located on old wiring that does NOT cause problems in the other
second-floor apartment, and
2) some of the bulbs on the new wiring burn out prematurely. I may take my
o-silly-scope there to look for spikes over the weekend. I'll report my
findings.

R1


Earlier, there was a post that mentioned vibration. My experience is that
bulb vibration failures are more common than high voltage or spike problems.
That particularly applies here because the main problem bulb is in a fan.

One solution is to use a "vibration service" bulb which has extra filament
supports and thicker filament wire. Sometimes such bulbs are packaged as
ceiling fan bulbs. Noise, which causes vibration, can be the culprit too.
Traffic and aircraft noise can be picked up by the walls and ceilings of a
building and cause them to vibrate which shakes the filament. New bulbs are
not particularly sensitive; but, as the bulb burns, the filament becomes
thinner and more brittle, so the bulb burns out early.

TKM


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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - new info

On 10/22/2011 12:38 AM, Evan wrote:
On Oct 19, 9:27 am, wrote:
On 10/18/2011 9:01 PM, Rebel1 wrote:



This apartment has strange problems. Incandescent bulbs burn out too
fast, usually when a switch is turned on. I monitored line voltage with
a plug-in meter that displays voltages in the range of 90 to 130. The
needle stays pointing in the green zone (110 to 125 volts). I don't live
there, but I left the meter there and the renter says it stays in the
green zone.


Aside from that problem, the kitchen has a ceiling fan with three light
bulbs (standard base). The bulb in one position burns out, again when
power is switched on, much more often than the other two.


I've tried using bulbs rated at 130V. Seem to give better life, but
there is still a definite problem that I can't blame on simple high
voltage. There is no flicker that could indicate that the bulb isn't
fully screwed into the socket.


This is an "illegal" apartment, which means that there can be many code
violations.


Thanks for you suggestions/comments.


R1


Up until 9 years ago, the entire apartment was a single room in a large
building with 3 other rental units in it. The owner divided this room
into an apartment for a fourth tenant, my friend.

It turns out that the bulbs in the bathroom, bedroom, and closet do NOT
burn out prematurely. The problem is confined to the kitchen, dining
nook and hallway. As far as my friend knows, the bulbs in any of the
other rental units do not burn out prematurely.

My friend's apartment is on the second floor, along with one other
rental unit. A circuit breaker panel in the common hallway controls
power to the two rentals. I now suspect that one of the breakers feeds
the circuits that have the short-lived bulbs, even though I can't figure
how a defective breaker could do this. I asked her to turn off each
breaker and map out which breakers control the various outlets and
lights in the apartment. I may not hear from her for a few days.

R1


You shouldn't be touching anything in this "apartment" your friend
should report the issue to the landlord who can either rectify it or
eventually have the issue reported to the building inspector who
would probably immediately condemn the entire building for the
illegal occupancies...

The landlord has someone they can vilify (a.k.a. YOU ) as someone
who was tampering with the wiring without any authorization if
the building suffers any sort of electrical fire in that unit...

If your friend is that concerned about the cost of light bulbs he can
do one of several things:

1.) Leave the offending socket with a dead lamp in it and not
worry about it until it catches on fire...

2.) Demand that the landlord either fix the problem or keep him
supplied with free light bulbs...

3.) Report it to the building inspector and watch as his landlord
gets in serious trouble...

~~ Evan


Problem is, the tenant is a life-long friend of the landlady. She even
went so far as to say she would give her life for the landlady. I don't
know what event, decades ago, created such a strong bond. Even though
the landlady lives in the same building, my friend and her rarely see
each other. Yet that bond remains. So calling the building inspector is
not an option.

Yesterday, I replaced a closet light fixture. Cost only $5.97+7% sales
tax. My friend wouldn't even deduct that trivial amount from the next
rent check.

It will be interesting when the town undergoes a complete revaluation.
There is a deck and shed added without permits. Then there are illegal
apartments. I don't know if any town-wide revaluation is scheduled. But
I certainly wouldn't want to be in the landlady's shoes.



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Default Light bulbs burn out too fast - Weekend results

I examined the line voltage with an oscilloscope, hoping to find it
loaded with spikes or have an oddball shape (triangle-like or clipped).
Looked perfect, both from black to white and black to green.
Next time I'll check the circuit breaker box for loose connections.

Even though the voltage measures about 120, I'll get her 130V long-life
bulbs. I turns out that the bulbs that go the soonest are the ones that
are switched on most often.

In the kitchen fan, which is rarely used, I pulled up the center contact
in the one socket (out of three) whose bulb blows most often. When I
replaced the bulb, I did it with the power on and tightened the bulb
just about 1/4 turn past the point it lit, as someone suggested, to
prevent overtightening. I can't see an easy way to replace just the
socket, and replacing the whole fan assembly is too expensive and not
worth the effort.

Thanks, everyone, for the interesting comments and suggestions.

R1



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