[Ignoramus2645]

I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Noon-Air]

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

Get an electrician to check your shorts

[Oscar_Lives]

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

[PJ -)]

Noon-Air wrote:

Get an electrician to check your shorts


Absolutely. 200 amps is a lot of punch.

[Ignoramus2645]

It is quite obviously not very relevant, but there is very solid 24
VAC as input to the contactor's coil.

One pair of contacts (across the contactor) measures 0 ohm. Another
pair, strangely, measures infinity, which is quite strange as the
contactor ought to be closed for a power fault like this to occur
(barring some very strange troubles). I left the outside unit due to
the rain that resumed, will come back there soon.

I am not used to seeing such strange contactors, all contactors that I
dealt with, to date, were three pole contactors for 3 phase motors.

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal. Thanks.

i

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:37:39 GMT, Ignoramus2645 wrote:
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[PJ -)]

Oscar_Lives wrote:
Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

Funny, but OMFG

[Ignoramus2645]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 21:39:46 -0500, Noon-Air wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

Get an electrician to check your shorts

My shorts are pretty wet by now, from the rain and wet grass.

As far as the wiring, I would like to check out some things by myself
(I am not a big stranger to electricity, built my phase converter blah
blah).

i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop. I will wait a little until rain
subsides and will go back.

i

[Ron Moore]

Well, the contactor's apparently bad. Start there. Been there, done that.
Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
It is quite obviously not very relevant, but there is very solid 24
VAC as input to the contactor's coil.

One pair of contacts (across the contactor) measures 0 ohm. Another
pair, strangely, measures infinity, which is quite strange as the
contactor ought to be closed for a power fault like this to occur
(barring some very strange troubles). I left the outside unit due to
the rain that resumed, will come back there soon.

I am not used to seeing such strange contactors, all contactors that I
dealt with, to date, were three pole contactors for 3 phase motors.

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal. Thanks.

i

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:37:39 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 22:09:02 -0500, Ron Moore wrote:
Well, the contactor's apparently bad. Start there. Been there, done that.

Hi Ron.

I think that I was wrong. The contactor is OK. I must have mismeasured
something. It has zero ohms across bost pairs of contacts.

I am going to post a little update, it is a little more apparent to
me -- see my separate post.

i


Respectfully,
Ron Moore

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
It is quite obviously not very relevant, but there is very solid 24
VAC as input to the contactor's coil.

One pair of contacts (across the contactor) measures 0 ohm. Another
pair, strangely, measures infinity, which is quite strange as the
contactor ought to be closed for a power fault like this to occur
(barring some very strange troubles). I left the outside unit due to
the rain that resumed, will come back there soon.

I am not used to seeing such strange contactors, all contactors that I
dealt with, to date, were three pole contactors for 3 phase motors.

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal. Thanks.

i

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:37:39 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Oscar_Lives]

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!

[Ignoramus2645]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!



Sounds like you are not going to be helpful.

i

[Oscar_Lives]

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!



Sounds like you are not going to be helpful.


You get what you pay for. Hire a tech and get it fixed. hang out on the
world wide web and be entertained.

Cheap ****.

[Ignoramus2645]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:33:40 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!



Sounds like you are not going to be helpful.


You get what you pay for. Hire a tech and get it fixed. hang out on the
world wide web and be entertained.

Cheap ****.



I am giving about 60% that I can diagnose it tonight.

i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Thu, 3 Aug 2006 00:01:05 -0400, Tony wrote:
This is symptomatic of a bad compressor. Try testing the motor leads for a
dead short (to each other and ground). There are start and run leads. You
may need a HVAC guy to replace your compressor and recharge the system.

Good idea, I will check motor leads for leaks to ground. (the main
motor leads should read a very low resistance to one another).

i

Tony

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Tony]

This is symptomatic of a bad compressor. Try testing the motor leads for a
dead short (to each other and ground). There are start and run leads. You
may need a HVAC guy to replace your compressor and recharge the system.

Tony

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Richard J Kinch]

Ignoramus2645 writes:

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal.

Two capacitors, in one can, with a common terminal.

[Noon-Air]

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:33:40 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs
etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the
breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the
current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming
and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!



Sounds like you are not going to be helpful.


You get what you pay for. Hire a tech and get it fixed. hang out on the
world wide web and be entertained.

Cheap ****.



I am giving about 60% that I can diagnose it tonight.

Ok, lets say that you *DO* figure out what the problem is... do you have the
correct parts on your truck to actually make the repair?

[mm]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:58:24 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I am an amateur, but...

At this stage I don't think you should be trying to measure amps, and
since it is wet, I don't think you should be trying to measure volts.

You should turn off the breaker so that all hot leads to the
compressor are disconnected, and when you verify that there is no
voltage, you can start measuring ohmage, resistance btween the hot and
hot, or the hot and the ground, in your compressor.

First realize that there are two power supplies to the compressor, a
110 volt circuit that uses the thermostat and the control board to
control the contactor, probably the thing you heard humming below, and
a 220 volt circuit that actually powers the compressor.

BOTH CBs should be off.

Everything below assumes that the problem is in the 220 volt circuit.
If that's not true, post back.

If you got 200 amps, and even if you got less, but it kept tripping
the breaker, it's pretty clear (though I supppose it's not entirely
certain) that you have a short. An ohmmeter is the way to find it.

The capacitor could be the place, and that would be good I guess
because they are cheap comparitively. IIUC, new caps have two caps in
one can. One could be shorted while the other is fine. You shouldn't
measure for a short until you meausure voltage between the common and
each of the other leads. If the cap is bad, one might have voltage
and the other might not. The voltage might be enough to burn out part
of your ohmmeter. If the cap is still good, both halves might be hot.
If the cap is hot, holding a charge, and has stayed hot while it was
raining, it's probably good. But if you want to check more, if it
does have voltage, you could apply a screwdriver with an insulated
handle to the two connectors and watch for a spark. Then do it again
and watch for a second spark. That should discharge the cap. Then
you can measure the ohms and they should be verrrry low as current
flows from your meter into the cap. With a small cap, the ohms would
start to increase as the cap filled, but I reallly don't know how
long that would take with one of these. This is much easier to see
with an analog meter, a meter with a needle. The needle goes all the
way to the right, and slowly back to the left. But like I saw with
these caps with high capacitance (and 25 microf is a lot) I don't know
how long this takes. I'd say if at the start each part of the cap
shows substantail voltage, the cap is good.

It's not likely the contactor is shorted, and if it is, you should see
sparking damage. If you want to check one more time, you can be
looking at it when the 220 breaker is turned on one more time, and you
can watch the contactor. If it trips but you don't see sparks there,
that's not the problem.

I don't know if the outside fan is 110 or 220. I guess if it doesn't
turn when the inside fan is turning, it's 220. That motor is a lot
cheaper than a compressor. With my ac, you can take off the case,
take off the fan blade, take off the plate, I guess it is a rain
shield, and look for spark damage, and have someone look at that at
the smae time yuou turn on the breaker, and see if that sparks,
although maybe it sparks underneath where you can't see it.

Oh yeah, you should also measure the resistance of the two wires to
the fan, and the two wires to the compressor. The compressor uses a
lot of current so the resistance might be low normally. (I think it
would present as higher to the AC house current than it does to the DC
current from the battery in your ohmmeter.) I don't know what would be
correct. Zero is too low.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

This was worth doing. Is this the same CB that keeps tripping and
where you measured 200 amps. I don't think so, but you didn't draw a
distinction.

I will wait a little until rain
subsides and will go back.

Oh, don't complain about Oscar's jokes. It was funny and beggars
can't be choosers.

i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Wed, 02 Aug 2006 23:11:48 -0500, Richard J Kinch wrote:
Ignoramus2645 writes:

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal.

Two capacitors, in one can, with a common terminal.

Yes, that's right. You got it 100%. Here's the schematic:

http://igor.chudov.com/tmp/AC-Compressor/diagram.jpg


i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Wed, 2 Aug 2006 23:13:14 -0500, Noon-Air wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:33:40 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs
etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the
breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the
current
can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

Turn up the "squelch" knob on the CB. That ought to stop the humming
and
noise.

10-4 good buddy!



Sounds like you are not going to be helpful.


You get what you pay for. Hire a tech and get it fixed. hang out on the
world wide web and be entertained.

Cheap ****.



I am giving about 60% that I can diagnose it tonight.

Ok, lets say that you *DO* figure out what the problem is... do you have the
correct parts on your truck to actually make the repair?

It depends. If it is a cap, I can buy one tomorrow. If it is the
motor shorted, I will have to hire a pro.

i

[Ignoramus2645]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 00:16:29 -0400, mm wrote:
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:58:24 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


Have your buddy hold the breaker handle over for a while so the current can
stabilize and you can get a better reading.

I tried it, and I think that the breaker is good enough to reset
despite that. In any case, it is kind of pointless, as I know that the
current is too large and lasts too long.

I am an amateur, but...

At this stage I don't think you should be trying to measure amps, and
since it is wet, I don't think you should be trying to measure volts.

You should turn off the breaker so that all hot leads to the
compressor are disconnected, and when you verify that there is no
voltage, you can start measuring ohmage, resistance btween the hot and
hot, or the hot and the ground, in your compressor.

First realize that there are two power supplies to the compressor, a
110 volt circuit that uses the thermostat and the control board to
control the contactor, probably the thing you heard humming below, and
a 220 volt circuit that actually powers the compressor.

The control voltage is 24VAC.

BOTH CBs should be off.

Everything below assumes that the problem is in the 220 volt circuit.
If that's not true, post back.

If you got 200 amps, and even if you got less, but it kept tripping
the breaker, it's pretty clear (though I supppose it's not entirely
certain) that you have a short. An ohmmeter is the way to find it.

The capacitor could be the place, and that would be good I guess
because they are cheap comparitively. IIUC, new caps have two caps in
one can. One could be shorted while the other is fine. You shouldn't
measure for a short until you meausure voltage between the common and
each of the other leads. If the cap is bad, one might have voltage
and the other might not. The voltage might be enough to burn out part
of your ohmmeter. If the cap is still good, both halves might be hot.
If the cap is hot, holding a charge, and has stayed hot while it was
raining, it's probably good. But if you want to check more, if it
does have voltage, you could apply a screwdriver with an insulated
handle to the two connectors and watch for a spark. Then do it again
and watch for a second spark. That should discharge the cap. Then
you can measure the ohms and they should be verrrry low as current
flows from your meter into the cap. With a small cap, the ohms would
start to increase as the cap filled, but I reallly don't know how
long that would take with one of these. This is much easier to see
with an analog meter, a meter with a needle. The needle goes all the
way to the right, and slowly back to the left. But like I saw with
these caps with high capacitance (and 25 microf is a lot) I don't know
how long this takes. I'd say if at the start each part of the cap
shows substantail voltage, the cap is good.

It's not likely the contactor is shorted, and if it is, you should see
sparking damage. If you want to check one more time, you can be
looking at it when the 220 breaker is turned on one more time, and you
can watch the contactor. If it trips but you don't see sparks there,
that's not the problem.

I don't know if the outside fan is 110 or 220. I guess if it doesn't
turn when the inside fan is turning, it's 220. That motor is a lot
cheaper than a compressor. With my ac, you can take off the case,
take off the fan blade, take off the plate, I guess it is a rain
shield, and look for spark damage, and have someone look at that at
the smae time yuou turn on the breaker, and see if that sparks,
although maybe it sparks underneath where you can't see it.

Oh yeah, you should also measure the resistance of the two wires to
the fan, and the two wires to the compressor. The compressor uses a
lot of current so the resistance might be low normally. (I think it
would present as higher to the AC house current than it does to the DC
current from the battery in your ohmmeter.) I don't know what would be
correct. Zero is too low.

I tried asking my wife to turn on the CB while I was outside, I heard
some humming noise and then stop.

This was worth doing. Is this the same CB that keeps tripping and
where you measured 200 amps. I don't think so, but you didn't draw a
distinction.

I will wait a little until rain
subsides and will go back.

Oh, don't complain about Oscar's jokes. It was funny and beggars
can't be choosers.


OK, thanks. I appreciate your tips, will try some of them for sure.

i

[mm]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 04:32:03 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:


First realize that there are two power supplies to the compressor, a
110 volt circuit that uses the thermostat and the control board to
control the contactor, probably the thing you heard humming below, and
a 220 volt circuit that actually powers the compressor.

The control voltage is 24VAC.

Yeah I know, but I still think of it as 110 because that's what it is
before it goes throught the transformer.

[Stormin Mormon]

Please trim excess text. We don't need a Christmas Tree at this time
of year.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:33:40 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 03:21:45 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in
message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in
message
|
|
|
|[] [] [] [] [] []

[Stormin Mormon]

Trim this tree.

--

Christopher A. Young
You can't shout down a troll.
You have to starve them.
..

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
.. .
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 00:16:29 -0400, mm
wrote:
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:58:24 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:48:24 GMT, Oscar_Lives
wrote:

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in
message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs
etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the
breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to
measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker
popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will
be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple
like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor
shorted).

i

[Danny G.]

"mm" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 04:32:03 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:


First realize that there are two power supplies to the compressor, a
110 volt circuit that uses the thermostat and the control board to
control the contactor, probably the thing you heard humming below, and
a 220 volt circuit that actually powers the compressor.

The control voltage is 24VAC.

Yeah I know, but I still think of it as 110 because that's what it is
before it goes throught the transformer.

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your home service.
8)

[mm]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:53:33 GMT, "Danny G."
wrote:


"mm" wrote in message ...
On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 04:32:03 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:


First realize that there are two power supplies to the compressor, a
110 volt circuit that uses the thermostat and the control board to
control the contactor, probably the thing you heard humming below, and
a 220 volt circuit that actually powers the compressor.

The control voltage is 24VAC.

Yeah I know, but I still think of it as 110 because that's what it is
before it goes throught the transformer.

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your home service.
8)

You're right! I should probably think of it that way.

Darn, now I'll be afraid even to plug in a lamp.

[Dido]

most likely you will need a new compressor
from DIDO

"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Richard J Kinch]

Danny G. writes:

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your
home service.

Where you at? 13 KVAC hereabouts.

[Ignoramus1064]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 20:46:04 GMT, Dido wrote:
most likely you will need a new compressor

Yep, that is indeed the case. I will get a whole new system.

i


"Ignoramus2645" wrote in message
. ..
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i

[Danny G.]

"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message . ..
Danny G. writes:

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your
home service.

Where you at? 13 KVAC hereabouts.

I was just teasing about the transformer thing. 8)

[.p.jm@see_my_sig_for_address.com]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:55:05 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:

It is quite obviously not very relevant, but there is very solid 24
VAC as input to the contactor's coil.

One pair of contacts (across the contactor) measures 0 ohm. Another
pair, strangely, measures infinity, which is quite strange as the
contactor ought to be closed for a power fault like this to occur
(barring some very strange troubles). I left the outside unit due to
the rain that resumed, will come back there soon.

I am not used to seeing such strange contactors, all contactors that I
dealt with, to date, were three pole contactors for 3 phase motors.

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal. Thanks.

It's a ****ing spare.

Now take you god damned cross-posting trolling bull**** on
down the ****ing road.



i

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:37:39 GMT, Ignoramus2645 wrote:
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

[Bruce L. Bergman]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 15:52:22 -0500, Richard J Kinch
wrote:

Danny G. writes:

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your
home service.

Where you at? 13 KVAC hereabouts.

All depends on where "here" is. they run local distribution to the
poles behind your house in various areas at 2.4KV (rare anymore)
4.8KV, 9.6KV, 13KV, 15KV, 34.5KV...

And long distance can be all the way up to the 2-wire 1000KV DC
Pacific Intertie - one line at +500KV DC, the other at -500KV DC to
ground. Normally, DC isn't good for long distances, but boosted that
high it works. And better yet, the transmission systems at either end
don't have to be at the exact same frequency, because the converter
stations sync up with the local AC frequency lock.

But back to the original subject - Igor, you can't get hurt with the
24V from the furnace to the contactor - there's a 40VA to 60VA
transformer inside the furnace, and when the current goes up past what
the transformer can supply the voltage drops off. (Till the fuse in
the transformer pops, then you get nothing.)

There's a reason they call it "Class 2 Current Limited" wiring, and
you don't need to worry about silly things like conduit and boxes.

Now the 240 VAC from the breaker, THAT can hurt ya.

-- Bruce --

[Ken Sterling]

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:55:05 GMT, Ignoramus2645
wrote:

It is quite obviously not very relevant, but there is very solid 24
VAC as input to the contactor's coil.

One pair of contacts (across the contactor) measures 0 ohm. Another
pair, strangely, measures infinity, which is quite strange as the
contactor ought to be closed for a power fault like this to occur
(barring some very strange troubles). I left the outside unit due to
the rain that resumed, will come back there soon.

I am not used to seeing such strange contactors, all contactors that I
dealt with, to date, were three pole contactors for 3 phase motors.

Also, can someone explain me why the capacitor has three sets of
terminals. What is the purpose of the third terminal. Thanks.

It's a ****ing spare.

Now take you god damned cross-posting trolling bull**** on
down the ****ing road.

Yeah, you don't have a clue.... ya must have dug your "5 masters"
outta your ass with a fork 'cause you surely didn't go anywhere to
*learn* anything to get them.... Jerk - probably don't even have a
job...or can't hold one...


i

On Thu, 03 Aug 2006 02:37:39 GMT, Ignoramus2645 wrote:
I have a central A/C. Around when there was a thunderstorm,
electricity flickered about 2-3 times in our house.

Now our A/C is not working. The inside is all fine, the fan runs etc.

I am doing investigation and will post in this thread, but the breaker
popped and any attempt to reset it pops it again. I tried to measure
amps with my ammeter, it was quite hard to do due to breaker popping
soon, but the highest measure I got was about 200 amps.

I am going to open up the case now to have a quick look, I will be
running back and forth. My hope is that it is something simple like
capacitor shorted, but it easily could be worse (eg motor shorted).

i


--
Click here every day to feed an animal that needs you today !!!
http://www.theanimalrescuesite.com/

Paul ( pjm @ pobox . com ) - remove spaces to email me
'Some days, it's just not worth chewing through the restraints.'
'With sufficient thrust, pigs fly just fine.'
HVAC/R program for Palm PDA's
Free demo now available online http://pmilligan.net/palm/

[mm]

On Fri, 04 Aug 2006 08:25:21 GMT, "Danny G."
wrote:


"Richard J Kinch" wrote in message . ..
Danny G. writes:

It's probably 5k "before it goes throught the transformer" for your
home service.

Where you at? 13 KVAC hereabouts.

I was just teasing about the transformer thing. 8)

But now I'm sitting in the middle of the room, as far from the outlets
as possible. I had to get an extension cable for my computer
keyboard.

And there's that asbestos, too.