Home |
Search |
Today's Posts |
|
Electronics Repair (sci.electronics.repair) Discussion of repairing electronic equipment. Topics include requests for assistance, where to obtain servicing information and parts, techniques for diagnosis and repair, and annecdotes about success, failures and problems. |
Reply |
|
LinkBack | Thread Tools | Display Modes |
#1
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I
read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. |
#2
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
wrote in message ups.com... I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. The situation is complex, and it depends on where exactly you are located. As far as Europe goes, leaded solder is NOT illegal, and is unlikely to become so. Supplies are still fairly readily available, although not as abundantly as they were, as obviously, there is less demand. The directives regarding the use of lead-free solder, allow for amateur and non-commercial use of leaded solder, basically without restriction. Any equipment which was "placed on the market" prior to July 1 2006, can be repaired, commercially, using leaded solder if you wish. If it was constructed originally using leaded solder, then the general opinion is that it should be repaired using leaded solder, as there is considerable controversy as to whether leaded and lead-free solder alloys mix to produce a joint with long-term stability. If the item was originally constructed using lead-free, then for the same reason, use lead-free to repair it. Any item that was placed on the market after July 1 2006, will definitely be constructed using lead-free solder, and lead-free components ( the other angle to staying within the terms of the directive ). If you are a commercial repairer, you MUST use lead-free solder and direct replacement or compatible lead-free RoHS ( Restriction of Hazardous Substances ) certified components to perform any repair on this equipment, and not commit a theoretical criminal offence. I say theoretical because to date, I am not aware of anyone being prosecuted, or any means being in place to police the directive. You are not required to follow the terms of the directive for this equipment, if you are working on it non-commercially ie for your own personal purposes. Most commercial equipment has been manufactured in lead-free for more than 2 years now, and some manufacturers - Sony for instance - have been insisting for some time that their dealers use only lead-free solder for carrying out repairs to their equipment, irrespective of age or original construction materials, so apparently, they don't believe that there is an issue with mixing alloys. There is a lot of information on the web about this if you search " RoHS " directive. Also, there is a lot of valuable information on the major component suppliers' websites such as Farnell and RS Components. If you can get hold of a copy of " Technology @ Home " magazine ( last issue ) - www.technology-at-home.co.uk you can find the more comprehensive article that I did. Arfa |
#3
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
|
#4
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Eeyore wrote:
wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff |
#5
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have seen in the US are marking the boards. What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative? Leonard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 2917 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! |
#6
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
"Leonard Caillouet" wrote in message news:2yfJg.3687$Zm1.1807@dukeread02... "Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have seen in the US are marking the boards. What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative? Leonard Hi Leonard I have done quite a bit of research into this, and have corresponded with several experts in the field, and it seems that the jury is still out on this one. Half of the solder manufacturers say that it's ok to mix leaded and unleaded, and half say not. Some of the experts that I have spoken to say definitely not, so make up your own mind. I prefer not to mix them, as it seems that marginally more people seem to be saying don't than do. As the solder is still available, I see no reason to risk an unknown long term compromise in the stability of the joint, and will continue to use like for like, unless forced by product availability, or legislation, to do otherwise. Personally, I think that the whole thing is an ill-conceived and poorly thought through excuse to justify the existence of an EU department, and the jobs of those who work in it. And, as I've said before, the avionics industry, and medical instruments industry, amongst others, have been granted an exemption, and the American military flatly refuse to use it, so what are we to make of that ... ? Arfa |
#7
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Leonard Caillouet wrote:
"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have seen in the US are marking the boards. What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative? From what I've read about the subject, it comes down to metallurgical issues. If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint. What happens is the lead, as it melts at a lower temperature than tin (we're not talking about alloys here but trace contaminating amounts), will collect in the joint at the place that cools last, which is the center of mass, right under the footprint. (Obviously we're talking about SMT components here). This reduces the amount of tin doing the actual bonding of the lead and can lead to early joint failure. Boards made with lead free solders have been found to have better reliability when thermally cycled, one reason the automotive companies have embraced lead free assembly here in the USA. Long term reliability due to tin whiskers is the issue no one wants to talk about however, as the process of whisker formation is still not well understood. -Jeff |
#8
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Jeff Sutherland wrote:
Leonard Caillouet wrote: "Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have seen in the US are marking the boards. What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative? From what I've read about the subject, it comes down to metallurgical issues. If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint. What happens is the lead, as it melts at a lower temperature than tin (we're not talking about alloys here but trace contaminating amounts), will collect in the joint at the place that cools last, which is the center of mass, right under the footprint. (Obviously we're talking about SMT components here). This reduces the amount of tin doing the actual bonding of the lead and can lead to early joint failure. Boards made with lead free solders have been found to have better reliability when thermally cycled, one reason the automotive companies have embraced lead free assembly here in the USA. Long term reliability due to tin whiskers is the issue no one wants to talk about however, as the process of whisker formation is still not well understood. -Jeff Tin can fracture at low temperatures. -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#9
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Leonard Caillouet wrote:
"Jeff Sutherland" wrote in message ... Eeyore wrote: wrote: I was planning on getting into electronics as a hobby seriously, and I read that they have or will ban lead solder. Is it already illegal? Is traditional lead/tin/rosin solder still available to buy? Do we really need such a ban? I think I should stock up on the traditional solder if I can because from what I read, lead free solder is terrible, especially since I want to mainly work on repairing old electronic equipment. I'm wondering if it will even be possible to be an electronics hobbyist anymore. Mixing leaded and lead-free solders can be problematic. Generally if a device was built using leaded solder then leaded solder should be used for repair. For lead free assemblies, of course lead free solder should be used. The big question is, how will you be able to tell whether or not a board was put together using leaded or lead-free solder? Hopefully some mfrs will mark their boards accordingly but I doubt if many will. Just because some components may be marked as being 'lead free' or 'RoHS compliant' doesn't mean the board was assembled with lead free solder. Lead free parts will work fine with leaded solders as well as lead free solders. As far as hobby work goes there's nothing wrong with using lead free solder for hand work. It's slightly more difficult to work with, but high silver bearing solders such as SAC305 formulas seem to work the best. Using lots of flux is important as well, since a more agressive flux is needed than with tin/lead solder to ensure proper wetting. But if you are a soldering newbie it might be better to start out with some tin/lead solder until you get the hang of it as it is a little more forgiving... -Jeff Are there manufacturers that are not marking their boards for lead content? I thought it was required in Europe and all of the CE vendors that I have seen in the US are marking the boards. What is the problem with mixing the solders? Other than the lead free types making it harder to rework and needing slightly higher temps, what problems are there? What does "problematic" mean in this case? Is there a real issue or does it mean that you are not sure and are being conservative? Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old solder and do the repair with eutectic solder -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
#10
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message ... Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old solder and do the repair with eutectic solder I usually do, adding some fresh solder to help it off. Leonard -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- I am using the free version of SPAMfighter for private users. It has removed 3076 spam emails to date. Paying users do not have this message in their emails. Try SPAMfighter for free now! |
#11
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Jeff Sutherland wrote: If a part with tin/lead plated leads is used in a lead free process, the lead will contaminate the joint. As little as 0.5% lead is enough to weaken the joint and lead to cracking around the footprint. Yes, but I gather that the other way round is just fine. Graham |
#12
Posted to sci.electronics.repair
|
|||
|
|||
lead free solder
Leonard Caillouet wrote:
"Michael A. Terrell" wrote in message ... Lenoard, From what I've read you should wick away most of the old solder and do the repair with eutectic solder I usually do, adding some fresh solder to help it off. Leonard Do you leave a tiny bit of saturated braid on the end when you trim it? It helps conduct the heat to the joint faster and minimizes heat damage. I try to leave about half the width of the tip when I trim solder wick, then dip it about 1/4 inch into fresh liquid RMA flux. I've changed thousands of ICs this way with almost no damage to the PC boards. The few that were damaged were mostly due to other causes, like some idiot slamming a fist down on the bench while you're working because they think you're ignoring them, or defective PC boards that have all kinds of loose foils and pads. I have to see if my digital camera will do decent macro shots. If it does, I'll put some pictures for the new people on my website. BTW, How's business? -- Service to my country? Been there, Done that, and I've got my DD214 to prove it. Member of DAV #85. Michael A. Terrell Central Florida |
Reply |
Thread Tools | Search this Thread |
Display Modes | |
|
|
Similar Threads | ||||
Thread | Forum | |||
'Lead free' soldering kit ? | UK diy | |||
OT Guns more Guns | Metalworking | |||
Lead free fittings | UK diy | |||
I LOVE Speedfit! | UK diy | |||
*** Rec.Woodorking Mini-FAQ, *** 121, now lead free! | Woodworking |