Hi,

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Thanks,
Peter

wrote:

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Yes, but the plane becomes a bit harder to push.

It works on reverse grain because the action becomes more of a scraping
action in which the blade has less tendency to lift and then break the
fibres.

There's something about this on my web site - Planing Notes - Coping
With Gnarly Grain.

Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

wrote:

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Yes, but the plane becomes a bit harder to push.

It works on reverse grain because the action becomes more of a scraping
action in which the blade has less tendency to lift and then break the
fibres.

There's something about this on my web site - Planing Notes - Coping
With Gnarly Grain.

Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

wrote:

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Yes, but the plane becomes a bit harder to push.

It works on reverse grain because the action becomes more of a scraping
action in which the blade has less tendency to lift and then break the
fibres.

There's something about this on my web site - Planing Notes - Coping
With Gnarly Grain.

Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

wrote:

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Yes, but the plane becomes a bit harder to push.

It works on reverse grain because the action becomes more of a scraping
action in which the blade has less tendency to lift and then break the
fibres.

There's something about this on my web site - Planing Notes - Coping
With Gnarly Grain.

Jeff G
--
Jeff Gorman, West Yorkshire, UK
email : Username is amgron
ISP is clara.co.uk
www.amgron.clara.net

It was somewhere outside Barstow when wrote:

For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles.

If you can afford timber that really needs this, you can afford an
extra smoother with York pitch.

wrote:
Hi,

The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?

Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Thanks,
Peter


Allow me to recommend Brian Burns' _Double Bevel Sharpening_ available
from LMII and, I believe, Japan WW'r.

--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

On Wed, 23 Feb 2005 10:47:58 -0800, the inscrutable Ron Hock
spake:

wrote:
--snip--
Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Allow me to recommend Brian Burns' _Double Bevel Sharpening_ available
from LMII and, I believe, Japan WW'r.

Out of curiosity, do you put any double bevels on your products, Ron?


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----------------------------
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Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?

Allow me to recommend Brian Burns' _Double Bevel Sharpening_ available

from LMII and, I believe, Japan WW'r.

Out of curiosity, do you put any double bevels on your products, Ron?


No we don't. I think that's best left to the user. I've read Burns' book
(and he's a friend) and I think he makes sense and his methods are well
thought out, thoroughly researched and extensively tested. DB sharpening
on a bevel-down blade allows infinitely adjustable angle of attack and
can tame the wildest grain. The only problem I have with DB sharpening
is that, if you want to go back, you must take off a lot of blade
length. So I'll leave that modification to you.

--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
...


Out of curiosity, do you put any double bevels on your products, Ron?


No we don't. I think that's best left to the user. I've read Burns' book
(and he's a friend) and I think he makes sense and his methods are well
thought out, thoroughly researched and extensively tested. DB sharpening
on a bevel-down blade allows infinitely adjustable angle of attack and
can tame the wildest grain. The only problem I have with DB sharpening
is that, if you want to go back, you must take off a lot of blade
length. So I'll leave that modification to you.


And sell a few more blades for those who keep modifying?

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
...

can tame the wildest grain. The only problem I have with DB sharpening
is that, if you want to go back, you must take off a lot of blade length.
So I'll leave that modification to you.

--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com

I have a number 3 Bailey that I stick an old iron that is crowned like a
scrub plane and use as a scrub plane. I then put the normal blade back in
the plane for normal smoothing.

I have your irons in my Bedrocks and I would entertain having an extra iron
with back bevel on it for use when I think it's appropriate to do so.

Hi,
The usual bench planes have the blade with the bevel down. The bed
angle is 45 degrees. With a single bevel blade, This gives a cutting
angle of 45 degrees which is good for long grain on straight grain
hardwoods like maple. For figured woods it is recommended that planes
have higher bed and cutting angles of 50 - 60 degrees. That means
owning different planes with different bed angles. Do we need to own a
smoother, jack, and jointer plane of higher bed angles or can we get
away with only a high angle smoother?
Could we play this trick? For an normal 45 degree bed angle plane, can
we put a 5 degree back bevel on the blade to make the cutting angle a
total of 50 degrees? Is there loss of performance with this set-up?
Thanks,
Peter


I think there is something of another point in how a blade edge is shaped,

I suppose if a regular blade has a standard 25º bevel, and Leonard Lee
instructs to add only 1º for the micro bevel,

suppose it would be a better idea to have the main bevel at 20º opposing a
back bevel of 5º with an added micro bevel of that 1º added to the 20º side
for 21º cutting edge result,

you would still have a proper 50º cutting angle for hard or figured woods.
Extrapolation to 60º capable.

This way you still have the same actual cutting edge as a normal 26º blade.
Correct if I am wrong, anyone.

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

Ron, BTW thank you for the super fast arrival of the 2-5/8" chip breaker.
On the 'phone you had said a week or eight days, it got here in three days.
I appreciate that! You must have went ahead and made it right then, ay?

--
Alex
cravdraa_at-yahoo_dot-com
not my site: http://www.e-sword.net/

George wrote:
The only problem I have with DB sharpening
is that, if you want to go back, you must take off a lot of blade
length. So I'll leave that modification to you.



And sell a few more blades for those who keep modifying?



Heck yeah! They don't wear out _nearly_ fast enough. I may have to
change my sharpening notes... something about _always_ starting with
60-grit... yeah, that's it. And always test an edge by dropping it on
the concrete floor. If it dings, it's not ready yet. Whaddya think?

(Why couldn't I have come up with something consumable? Oh, yeah,
shellac! There's an idea!)

--
Ron Hock
HOCK TOOLS www.hocktools.com and www.hockfinishes.com

"Ron Hock" wrote in message
...
Heck yeah! They don't wear out _nearly_ fast enough. I may have to
change my sharpening notes... something about _always_ starting with
60-grit... yeah, that's it. And always test an edge by dropping it on
the concrete floor. If it dings, it's not ready yet. Whaddya think?


Sounds like the kids at school. One of the real problems with industrial
arts in our no responsibility public schools is trying to keep any semblance
of a respectable edge on a tool used by those who didn't pay for it, didn't
sharpen it, won't be using it next hour, and can say "that's not the one I
was using" with a straight face after trimming a few brads.

Student mentors and I could barely keep two or three in condition on any
given day.

Ron Hock wrote:
Heck yeah! They don't wear out _nearly_ fast enough. I may have to
change my sharpening notes... something about _always_ starting with
60-grit... yeah, that's it. And always test an edge by dropping it on
the concrete floor. If it dings, it's not ready yet. Whaddya think?
(Why couldn't I have come up with something consumable? Oh, yeah,
shellac! There's an idea!)

What if we combine the two. Shellac the blades as a feature.
Then sell more shellac to be used in the honing process. Maybe we
could get O'Deen to sign on and reinvent the wRECk. %-)
Just a thought,
Dave in Fairfax
--
Dave Leader
reply-to doesn't work
use:
daveldr at att dot net
American Association of Woodturners
http://www.woodturner.org
Capital Area Woodturners
http://www.capwoodturners.org/
PATINA
http://www.Patinatools.org/